We're happy to announce that we now accept bitcoin as an alternative payment method for TL Store purchases and for TL+! If you aren't sure what bitcoin is, the following video will help to explain it:
We have partnered with bitpay who provide a fast and secure bitcoin checkout experience that you can use from your desktop with a bitcoin application or from your phone by scanning a QR code. Our prices will continue to be displayed in US Dollars or Euros, but will be converted to the equivalent BTC amount at the time of checkout.
I once did some free coaching and the guy insisted on paying me 15 bitcoins, I had no idea what they were at the time so when I reformatted my computer I didn't bother saving the wallet .
Seems like so many places are starting to use bitcoins though so It's nice that TL is too!
On December 03 2013 21:34 ROOTSasquatch wrote: I once did some free coaching and the guy insisted on paying me 15 bitcoins, I had no idea what they were at the time so when I reformatted my computer I didn't bother saving the wallet .
Seems like so many places are starting to use bitcoins though so It's nice that TL is too!
That was the most expensive lesson you'll ever give T_T
On December 03 2013 21:34 ROOTSasquatch wrote: I once did some free coaching and the guy insisted on paying me 15 bitcoins, I had no idea what they were at the time so when I reformatted my computer I didn't bother saving the wallet .
Seems like so many places are starting to use bitcoins though so It's nice that TL is too!
some guy lost his hard drive with the key to a hell of a lot bitcoins. that equaled a loss of more than a million dollars if I remember correctly. you should've kept them
I remember learning about bitcions over two years ago. I assumed bitcoins would never take off, so I didn't bother with them (and besides, my not-so-state-of-the-art GTX 250 could only mine a few coins per day!). I definitely feel a bit of remorse seeing the price at over $1000 :|.
Anyways, bitcoin is a cool idea, and with services like bitpay I can't think of a good reason not to accept them.
On December 03 2013 22:11 Ragnarork wrote: I'm quite perplexed by this, but that just may be because I see Bitcoin as a fuzzy thing that will go down in flames and die eventually... :/
maybe. people are pretty angry at the international banking system. this is a solution
On December 03 2013 22:11 Ragnarork wrote: I'm quite perplexed by this, but that just may be because I see Bitcoin as a fuzzy thing that will go down in flames and die eventually... :/
Whether that actually happens or not, it shouldn't really matter for TL so long as they always denominate their prices in USD and never maintain any bitcoin as "cash" (by selling the bitcoins at the same moment they're received).
On December 03 2013 21:34 ROOTSasquatch wrote: I once did some free coaching and the guy insisted on paying me 15 bitcoins, I had no idea what they were at the time so when I reformatted my computer I didn't bother saving the wallet .
Seems like so many places are starting to use bitcoins though so It's nice that TL is too!
some guy lost his hard drive with the key to a hell of a lot bitcoins. that equaled a loss of more than a million dollars if I remember correctly. you should've kept them
A different case perhaps, but there has been a story in the news here in the UK recently about a guy who accidentally threw away coins worth around £4 million today (more than $6.5 million).
On December 03 2013 23:05 govie wrote: Bitcoin is misleading currency. Never buy bitcoins (i know i will get alot of hate for this post, care, its the truth).
The truth can usually be backed up with accessible facts. So go ahead and tell us why you're right.
On December 03 2013 23:05 govie wrote: Bitcoin is misleading currency. Never buy bitcoins (i know i will get alot of hate for this post, care, its the truth).
The truth can usually be backed up with accessible facts. So go ahead and tell us why you're right.
It just screams bubble and when it pops it could hurt those who are heavily invested in it. However, if TL is selling for USD immediately upon transfer then theres no risk of that happening; even if bitcoins eventually crash it won't end up hurting them
On December 03 2013 23:05 govie wrote: Bitcoin is misleading currency. Never buy bitcoins (i know i will get alot of hate for this post, care, its the truth).
The truth can usually be backed up with accessible facts. So go ahead and tell us why you're right.
It just screams bubble and when it pops it could hurt those who are heavily invested in it. However, if TL is selling for USD immediately upon transfer then theres no risk of that happening; even if bitcoins eventually crash it won't end up hurting them
The reason we're using bitpay instead of accepting bitcoin directly is precisely because of this - they offer immediate conversion to USD or Euro so there is no risk for us if bitcoin prices fluctuate.
On December 03 2013 23:05 govie wrote: Bitcoin is misleading currency. Never buy bitcoins (i know i will get alot of hate for this post, care, its the truth).
On December 03 2013 23:03 R1CH wrote: You can buy bitcoins on exchange sites such as www.bitstamp.net
You can also create bitcoins but I believe that unless you have top notch GPU, you will pay more for electricity than earn for making them. Someone correct me - bitcoins are something I still need to investigate.
On December 03 2013 23:03 R1CH wrote: You can buy bitcoins on exchange sites such as www.bitstamp.net
You can also create bitcoins but I believe that unless you have top notch GPU, you will pay more for electricity than earn for making them. Someone correct me - bitcoins are something I still need to investigate.
On December 03 2013 23:05 govie wrote: Bitcoin is misleading currency. Never buy bitcoins (i know i will get alot of hate for this post, care, its the truth).
The truth can usually be backed up with accessible facts. So go ahead and tell us why you're right.
It just screams bubble and when it pops it could hurt those who are heavily invested in it. However, if TL is selling for USD immediately upon transfer then theres no risk of that happening; even if bitcoins eventually crash it won't end up hurting them
The reason we're using bitpay instead of accepting bitcoin directly is precisely because of this - they offer immediate conversion to USD or Euro so there is no risk for us if bitcoin prices fluctuate.
I remember when bitcoin was just getting started and they were worth almost nothing. No one thought it would ever take off, and now the price of 1 single bitcoin is ~$1,000.00! I could be a millionaire right now if I had bought some cheap when I had the chance :/
On December 03 2013 22:11 Ragnarork wrote: I'm quite perplexed by this, but that just may be because I see Bitcoin as a fuzzy thing that will go down in flames and die eventually... :/
maybe. people are pretty angry at the international banking system. this is a solution
People have the right to be angry at the international banking system, and bitcoin is an intersting experiment of trying to bypass it (it's the best thing about it I'd say). But that's still highly volatile, the bubble will explode, it's not a matter of "if" but "when". What I think is that Bitcoin will fail in the end, but its idea is interesting and there's good chance that it will survive.
On December 03 2013 23:05 govie wrote: Bitcoin is misleading currency. Never buy bitcoins (i know i will get alot of hate for this post, care, its the truth).
The truth can usually be backed up with accessible facts. So go ahead and tell us why you're right.
Unlike regular dollars, bitcoins fall out of the judicial domain which means that ordinary crimes like theft for example are not punishable. Above that one could question if supporting a virtual black market currency is to be advised. It was never this easy to buy black market (illegal) goods online or have big amounts of valuable goods which can't be taxed (and thus undermining state redistribution).
On December 03 2013 23:05 govie wrote: Bitcoin is misleading currency. Never buy bitcoins (i know i will get alot of hate for this post, care, its the truth).
The truth can usually be backed up with accessible facts. So go ahead and tell us why you're right.
Unlike regular dollars, bitcoins fall out of the judicial domain which means that ordinary crimes like theft for example are not punishable. Above that one could question if supporting a virtual black market currency is to be advised. It was never this easy to buy black market (illegal) goods online or have big amounts of valuable goods which can't be taxed (and thus undermining the state).
why are crimes like bitcoin theft not punishable? I understand that it would be hard - if not impossible - to prove, but theft is theft. if you could prove that someone hacked your wallet and transfered the btc to an address owned by himself you can make a case. Again: this is very hypothetical. It is almost impossible to prove all that, but it is almost impossible for a third party to steal your btc if you are not stupid. if you trust an online wallet or similar then it's of course entirely possible that it gets stolen.
it is easy buying illegal goods, but the person selling has to explain where all his money comes from as soon as he cashes in in a fiat currency. and depending where he does that he has of course to pay taxes.
Normally I just lurk on here, but I felt the need to come show my support for this. Been a long time sc player.. TL was never really the team I supported nor my forum of choice, more a source for info.. but this is awesome.. I might need to browse around the store now :p.
I think it's awesome move. Though we'll see how long it will last. No way the governments will leave something which is non-regulated money alone. Sooner or later they'll surely try to take control over it, probably destroying it and everything it is about.
On December 04 2013 00:29 Ragnarork wrote: The way you put it, R1CH, I only see an advantage in converting currency to bitcoin and then immediately use these bitcoins to pay.
On December 03 2013 22:11 Ragnarork wrote: I'm quite perplexed by this, but that just may be because I see Bitcoin as a fuzzy thing that will go down in flames and die eventually... :/
maybe. people are pretty angry at the international banking system. this is a solution
People have the right to be angry at the international banking system, and bitcoin is an intersting experiment of trying to bypass it (it's the best thing about it I'd say). But that's still highly volatile, the bubble will explode, it's not a matter of "if" but "when". What I think is that Bitcoin will fail in the end, but its idea is interesting and there's good chance that it will survive.
Oh my god we have an visionary economic expert here.
There is only one thing can make Bitcoin explode, it's china + usa + europe make it illegal. If not. If tomorrow USA or China make it perfectly legal you can be sure big player will come in, and the value will skyrocket. Bitcoin si only a bet about this right now, nothing more, because we are a huge community, and people are holding bitcoin like gold in war time. It's the biggest revolution since internet. I don't think government can bypass Cryptocurrency, maybe bitcoin yes, but not the technology behind it. It's the future, and it's now. You to need to be blind like someone using mail and don't see any interest about e-mail in early 90s'. Bitcoin is exactly like internet, this technology only need "tools" to be usefull like nothing else before.
reddit.com/r/bitcoin for who want to learn more...
Big up to TL for this, but right now I wouldn't want to spend any bitcoins (maybe if I get scared they'll run out of those sweet discontinued hoodies soon i might shell out some ) because I still think that it's way underpriced for the utility it has. For any of you who had the nightmare of validating a PayPal account or opening a bank account abroad, bitcoin is superfast and cheap. As soon as it will come under proper legislation theft and other related crimes will be controlled, at least for the majority of users who choose added security over total anonimity. True, the current skyrocketing in price is a bit quick and possibly bitcoin right now is a tad bit overvalued but its really nothing compared to what it's really worth as a means of exchange. Having said that, I have some Litecoins as well just to be on the safe side. For those wailing about cryptocoins being only useful to druglords and those who hustle with child porn, I have bad news, so is the US dollar . Seriously though, the demise of Silk Road halted growth for about 12 hours tops, the real driving force from around the 180-200$ mark was the huge influx of chinese investors. Right now the market is extremely volatile, anyone with the right amount of bitcoins can cause waves by flooding the market. As the market cap grows, these moves will be more and more difficult to pull of and the rate of growth will slow but also it will also enable the currency to calm down.
On December 04 2013 02:19 gkts wrote: I really hope TL is gonna convert all its bitcoins to real money ASAP so they won't get hurt by the collapsing bubble :/
On December 03 2013 23:05 govie wrote: Bitcoin is misleading currency. Never buy bitcoins (i know i will get alot of hate for this post, care, its the truth).
The truth can usually be backed up with accessible facts. So go ahead and tell us why you're right.
It just screams bubble and when it pops it could hurt those who are heavily invested in it. However, if TL is selling for USD immediately upon transfer then theres no risk of that happening; even if bitcoins eventually crash it won't end up hurting them
The reason we're using bitpay instead of accepting bitcoin directly is precisely because of this - they offer immediate conversion to USD or Euro so there is no risk for us if bitcoin prices fluctuate.
well its a bubble now. but long term its an alternative. theres good and bad things about it. cool is that you dont have to pay any fee for accepting bitcoin to the paypal mafia or something.
On December 04 2013 00:29 Ragnarork wrote: The way you put it, R1CH, I only see an advantage in converting currency to bitcoin and then immediately use these bitcoins to pay.
On December 03 2013 22:15 dreamseller wrote:
On December 03 2013 22:11 Ragnarork wrote: I'm quite perplexed by this, but that just may be because I see Bitcoin as a fuzzy thing that will go down in flames and die eventually... :/
maybe. people are pretty angry at the international banking system. this is a solution
People have the right to be angry at the international banking system, and bitcoin is an intersting experiment of trying to bypass it (it's the best thing about it I'd say). But that's still highly volatile, the bubble will explode, it's not a matter of "if" but "when". What I think is that Bitcoin will fail in the end, but its idea is interesting and there's good chance that it will survive.
Oh my god we have an visionary economic expert here.
There is only one thing can make Bitcoin explode, it's china + usa + europe make it illegal. If not. If tomorrow USA or China make it perfectly legal you can be sure big player will come in, and the value will skyrocket. Bitcoin si only a bet about this right now, nothing more, because we are a huge community, and people are holding bitcoin like gold in war time. It's the biggest revolution since internet. I don't think government can bypass Cryptocurrency, maybe bitcoin yes, but not the technology behind it. It's the future, and it's now. You to need to be blind like someone using mail and don't see any interest about e-mail in early 90s'. Bitcoin is exactly like internet, this technology only need "tools" to be usefull like nothing else before.
reddit.com/r/bitcoin for who want to learn more...
Of course if USA or China make it legal, it will be be legit lol. But based on what reason should they make it legal is the question. Bitcoin is advertised to have lower transaction fee. There's nothing else to back it up. However, people buy bitcoin right now just to stock it up and not use it like it's supposed to. That's the first red flag of bubble. And my god, do you see its sisters? Litecoin, torcoin,...v..v. There're dozens of similar knockoff. Bitcoin even has events, such as sales on Black Friday and the like. It's obvious that Bitcoin isn't being treated as a currency, but as a commodity, a stock.
Right now, bitcoin is like a stock of a company that do transaction payment service, kind of like Western Union but with much lower fee. I'm a stock trader, so I love trading and learning bitcoin, but I will never, for a million year, recommend family to put money in it. From my experience, people are fascinating about bitcoin because for a lot of people this is the first time they ever come close to experience stock trading. I saw this pattern in Vietnamese stock exchange and US stock exchange.
To make bitcoin legit, there are gonna be heavy heavy regulation for it and its sisters, and as we all know, regulation creates fee for parties. In the end of the day, the fee should be very similar to normal currency exchange fee imo.
anyone that says "it's a bubble" is pretty retarded.
Like, if you really wanna say you think it's gonna fall, you should say this:
"based on my inability to predict the future, I still predict that bitcoins are gonna dwindle in popularity, while the odds exist that it will actually grow in popularity. These odds are also completely unclear to me, because there are billions of factors that affect this. But I will still choose to be a retardface and reduce this indecypherable seemingly-chaotic-but-still-perfectly-in-order universe using my state of the art homo-sapiens brain, and say --- "it's a bubble".
fuck.
just because something has been growing, doesn't mean it will suddenly start shrinking. it could die in 2 months, or it can become the biggest currency in the world in the next 10 years. Nobody can tell.
On December 04 2013 03:40 robert1005 wrote: It's cool that you guys are accepting bitcoins now, but be carefull. when something goes wrong with these virtual currencies, there is nowhere where you can obtain your redress!
Maybe it's a little offttopic, but thats how I think about this matter.
they will have thought it through more than that at least
It's cool that you guys are accepting bitcoins now, but be carefull. when something goes wrong with these virtual currencies, there is nowhere where you can obtain your redress!
Maybe it's a little offttopic, but thats how I think about this matter.
On December 04 2013 03:37 niteReloaded wrote: anyone that says "it's a bubble" is pretty retarded.
Like, if you really wanna say you think it's gonna fall, you should say this:
"based on my inability to predict the future, I still predict that bitcoins are gonna dwindle in popularity, while the odds exist that it will actually grow in popularity. These odds are also completely unclear to me, because there are billions of factors that affect this. But I will still choose to be a retardface and reduce this indecypherable seemingly-chaotic-but-still-perfectly-in-order universe using my state of the art homo-sapiens brain, and say --- "it's a bubble".
fuck.
just because something has been growing, doesn't mean it will suddenly start shrinking. it could die in 2 months, or it can become the biggest currency in the world in the next 10 years. Nobody can tell.
the definition of bubble is that it grows much bigger than its supposed to. If it takes the whole 10 years to become big then what's the point lol.
On December 04 2013 03:17 wei2coolman wrote: Already calling it. TL gets fancy as fuck new servers after a year of accepting bitcoins.
On December 04 2013 03:37 niteReloaded wrote: anyone that says "it's a bubble" is pretty retarded.
Like, if you really wanna say you think it's gonna fall, you should say this:
"based on my inability to predict the future, I still predict that bitcoins are gonna dwindle in popularity, while the odds exist that it will actually grow in popularity. These odds are also completely unclear to me, because there are billions of factors that affect this. But I will still choose to be a retardface and reduce this indecypherable seemingly-chaotic-but-still-perfectly-in-order universe using my state of the art homo-sapiens brain, and say --- "it's a bubble".
fuck.
just because something has been growing, doesn't mean it will suddenly start shrinking. it could die in 2 months, or it can become the biggest currency in the world in the next 10 years. Nobody can tell.
Ok, ill help!
Lets say a bread costs 3 euro or 3 dollar today. Next month the same bread costs 8 times more, 24 euro/dollar. If that would happen, there would be civil war in ur village/town/city/country. People would literally fight to the death for a loaf of bread. Bitcoin rather, can do the same 8-fold rise in prices in a month out of the blue, based on nothing. Bitcoin has the problem that its manipuable by someone or something in a large scale, just like normal markets and currency (maybe even worse then the normal markets as seen in the 8-fold rise of the prices). I call bitcoin satanscurrency, because i can smell the pudge the banker wallstreetrot from here in the netherlands
I have no problems with wallstreet, trading or investing, but then u should not brand bitcoin like a honest trustworthy consumerproduct/currency which it certainly is not!
On December 04 2013 03:37 niteReloaded wrote: anyone that says "it's a bubble" is pretty retarded.
Like, if you really wanna say you think it's gonna fall, you should say this:
"based on my inability to predict the future, I still predict that bitcoins are gonna dwindle in popularity, while the odds exist that it will actually grow in popularity. These odds are also completely unclear to me, because there are billions of factors that affect this. But I will still choose to be a retardface and reduce this indecypherable seemingly-chaotic-but-still-perfectly-in-order universe using my state of the art homo-sapiens brain, and say --- "it's a bubble".
fuck.
just because something has been growing, doesn't mean it will suddenly start shrinking. it could die in 2 months, or it can become the biggest currency in the world in the next 10 years. Nobody can tell.
the definition of bubble is that it grows much bigger than its supposed to. If it takes the whole 10 years to become big then what's the point lol.
On December 04 2013 03:37 niteReloaded wrote: anyone that says "it's a bubble" understands economics.
Fixed your typo there.
Are you serious?
Judging by your tone, you also understand economics. If it's so, tell me: 1) what will be the value of bitcoin in 30 days? 2) what will be the value of bitcoin in 365 days?
On December 04 2013 03:37 niteReloaded wrote: anyone that says "it's a bubble" is pretty retarded.
Like, if you really wanna say you think it's gonna fall, you should say this:
"based on my inability to predict the future, I still predict that bitcoins are gonna dwindle in popularity, while the odds exist that it will actually grow in popularity. These odds are also completely unclear to me, because there are billions of factors that affect this. But I will still choose to be a retardface and reduce this indecypherable seemingly-chaotic-but-still-perfectly-in-order universe using my state of the art homo-sapiens brain, and say --- "it's a bubble".
fuck.
just because something has been growing, doesn't mean it will suddenly start shrinking. it could die in 2 months, or it can become the biggest currency in the world in the next 10 years. Nobody can tell.
Ok, ill help!
Lets say a bread costs 3 euro or 3 dollar today. Next month the same bread costs 8 times more, 24 euro/dollar. If that would happen, there would be civil war in ur village/town/city/country. People would literally fight to the death for a loaf of bread. Bitcoin rather, can do the same 8-fold rise in prices in a month out of the blue, based on nothing. Bitcoin has the problem that its manipuable by someone or something in a large scale, just like normal markets and currency (maybe even worse then the normal markets as seen in the 8-fold rise of the prices). I call bitcoin satanscurrency, because i can smell the pudge the banker wallstreetrot from here in the netherlands
I have no problems with wallstreet, trading or investing, but then u should not brand bitcoin like a honest trustworthy consumerproduct/currency which it certainly is not!
I appreciate your attempt, but I don't think your example with bread is aplicable here. Bread is something everybody needs. (let's just read 'bread' as food) Nobody needs bitcoin. people choose to invest.
At least compare it to something similar, otherwise it makes no sense. Compare it to gold if you want, or other currencies.
I worry so much that bitcoins are going to devalue work. If you could skip being a doctor or scientist because you find a way to make more money buying a powerful computer network and letting it run passively, what tangible value is there in spending all that time in school to do those jobs?
I don't know, mangs. I'll be honest that I haven't done any research on bitcoins, but the general idea behind it strikes me as worse than the systems we're trying to get away from. I'd be a terrible person to debate with, and I'm abysmal with money. But I'm just incredibly wary.
Good luck with it though, TL. Seems like little to no risk, and it's always good when a company improves on their model, whether nubs like me worry or not.
On December 04 2013 04:00 Incognoto wrote: so bitcoin is stored on an hDD right?
i'll get some and just do a lot of copy/paste
i'll break the system
(lol wtf are bitcoins relaly)
No, actually. You store a wallet on an HDD or SSD, which basically is a key which allows you access to certain bitcoins.
If you copy and paste your wallet, all your are doing is copying/pasting a key. You can still only spend those bitcoins once.
To make an analogy, think of the key to those bitcoins as a key to a house. You can copy the key a bazillion times, but you haven't multiplied the number of houses; all you've done is make your house less secure since anyone with a copy of that key can get into your house.
On December 04 2013 04:00 Incognoto wrote: so bitcoin is stored on an hDD right?
i'll get some and just do a lot of copy/paste
i'll break the system
(lol wtf are bitcoins relaly)
There is a really big file called a 'blockchain' which is stored by people who download the full client.
It's like a huge vault made of glass, with a bunch of glass safety deposit boxes inside. You can see how much is in each box, but only the person with the key can open up the box and move the contents to another box.
And as far as bitcoin being a bubble. A bubble is when the price of something is higher than what it is supposed to represent. Bitcoin is supposed to represent an alternative currency and payment system. The market cap right now is much lower than what it is supposed to represent, so it isn't a bubble in that sense. If you consider the amount of commerce in existence today, you could argue that it is overvalued and a bubble. But companies like newegg and tigerdirect are hinting at being interested on twitter. You have to understand that bitcoin has lower transaction fees than paypal or credit card networks. So these companies actually could save money if people switched to this system. The main question is if bitcoin or some other virtual currency will end up as the winner. So bitcoin is eventually either going to $0 or $100,000. With capital controls being put in place (eg, if you have a bank account with chase you can no longer do international wire transfers out of the country), with the IMF talking about capital taxes (taking a % out of everyone's bank account on some random day when no one is expecting it), with the new 'bail-in' paradigm where the money in your bank account isn't yours but the bank and you are a creditor of the bank and if the bank goes down your deposits go to keeping the bank afloat with no compensation like in Cyprus, with the NSA spying on all your financial transactions, with the IRS confiscating people's bank accounts at will because they didn't 'report' multiple 8 or 9k transactions, and with the amount of money printing going on right now, I'd say there might be a niche for an independent currency, so there are lots of reasons to think it might not be a bubble at the end of the day. Rather, just a disruptive technology.
On December 04 2013 04:00 Incognoto wrote: so bitcoin is stored on an hDD right?
i'll get some and just do a lot of copy/paste
i'll break the system
(lol wtf are bitcoins relaly)
There is a really big file called a 'blockchain' which is stored by people who download the full client.
It's like a huge vault made of glass, with a bunch of glass safety deposit boxes inside. You can see how much is in each box, but only the person with the key can open up the box and move the contents to another box.
And as far as bitcoin being a bubble. A bubble is when the price of something is higher than what it is supposed to represent. Bitcoin is supposed to represent an alternative currency and payment system. The market cap right now is much lower than what it is supposed to represent, so it isn't a bubble in that sense. If you consider the amount of commerce in existence today, you could argue that it is overvalued and a bubble. But companies like newegg and tigerdirect are hinting at being interested on twitter. You have to understand that bitcoin has lower transaction fees than paypal or credit card networks. So these companies actually could save money if people switched to this system. The main question is if bitcoin or some other virtual currency will end up as the winner. So bitcoin is eventually either going to $0 or $100,000. With capital controls being put in place (eg, if you have a bank account with chase you can no longer do international wire transfers out of the country), with the IMF talking about capital taxes (taking a % out of everyone's bank account on some random day when no one is expecting it), with the new 'bail-in' paradigm where the money in your bank account isn't yours but the bank and you are a creditor of the bank and if the bank goes down your deposits go to keeping the bank afloat with no compensation like in Cyprus, with the NSA spying on all your financial transactions, with the IRS confiscating people's bank accounts at will because they didn't 'report' multiple 8 or 9k transactions, and with the amount of money printing going on right now, I'd say there might be a niche for an independent currency, so there are lots of reasons to think it might not be a bubble at the end of the day. Rather, just a disruptive technology.
On December 04 2013 04:00 Incognoto wrote: so bitcoin is stored on an hDD right?
i'll get some and just do a lot of copy/paste
i'll break the system
(lol wtf are bitcoins relaly)
There is a really big file called a 'blockchain' which is stored by people who download the full client.
It's like a huge vault made of glass, with a bunch of glass safety deposit boxes inside. You can see how much is in each box, but only the person with the key can open up the box and move the contents to another box.
And as far as bitcoin being a bubble. A bubble is when the price of something is higher than what it is supposed to represent. Bitcoin is supposed to represent an alternative currency and payment system. The market cap right now is much lower than what it is supposed to represent, so it isn't a bubble in that sense. If you consider the amount of commerce in existence today, you could argue that it is overvalued and a bubble. But companies like newegg and tigerdirect are hinting at being interested on twitter. You have to understand that bitcoin has lower transaction fees than paypal or credit card networks. So these companies actually could save money if people switched to this system. The main question is if bitcoin or some other virtual currency will end up as the winner. So bitcoin is eventually either going to $0 or $100,000. With capital controls being put in place (eg, if you have a bank account with chase you can no longer do international wire transfers out of the country), with the IMF talking about capital taxes (taking a % out of everyone's bank account on some random day when no one is expecting it), with the new 'bail-in' paradigm where the money in your bank account isn't yours but the bank and you are a creditor of the bank and if the bank goes down your deposits go to keeping the bank afloat with no compensation like in Cyprus, with the NSA spying on all your financial transactions, with the IRS confiscating people's bank accounts at will because they didn't 'report' multiple 8 or 9k transactions, and with the amount of money printing going on right now, I'd say there might be a niche for an independent currency, so there are lots of reasons to think it might not be a bubble at the end of the day. Rather, just a disruptive technology.
THIS.
And more i would say, because bitcoin can do whatever people will do with it, bitcoin are not stock. And the market fluctuate yes, but please look the curve at 6months or 2 year (http://www.bitcoinity.org/markets), this look like a fluctuation ? Or a giant growing ?
+825% in 6 months... +38502.60% in 2 years...
it's like saying in 1998 "online video game it's just a bubble, people will go away from it". or in 2002 "facebook and all this new web2.0 are just bullshit and people will forget quickly what is it"
Value is rising crazy, because stock are limited, and china is now coming into play. Yes sure their is a lot of wanabee trader and stuff like this, but as a believer and user, let's me tell you bitcoin (cryptocurrency) is just the "normal" evolution of our world, we are in a fully open world, everybody travel, and everybody is using internet. The fact is : I'm communicating with people right now which i don't even know, from all over the world, on a language which is not mine, from thailand, to a US webserver, as a french.
It's just the right time to have a international - internet currency. It's just time, and in 5 years when you will use a crypto currency to make a reservation for your holiday on an european website as an americain user without make anyconversion, With very low fee, in 5secondes, you will feel ashamed as a "child of internet" to thinking the way you think now. Because bitcoin is for us. For the previous generation like my parent, i don't even try to explain. Like internet they will it "naturally" when it's will become mainstream (when smart people, we make smart thing to make it more user friendly).
I'm not telling you to invest into bitcoin, just to think about it. Think about this new technology, it's took me 3 months to understand their is no possibility of crypto currency will not change the world, dramatically or not. I don't want talk about politics :D
On December 03 2013 22:31 deathgod6 wrote: April Fools' came early.
we will be laughing when bitcoin doubles in price again
Bitcoin supporters only talk about the profit a few of them made, and never talk about the thousands of hours and dollars wasted and lost. Or the times it's been hacked. Or the fact that almost no one accepts it except for a now defunct illegal drug trade website. I'm really shocked that Team Liquid would even want bitcoins, I imagine they got some kind of a special deal from the company. This isn't a criticism, just genuine shock.
edit: not going to convince anyone that bitcoin's a bubble, it'll turn into a shitty semantics debate.
Anyway, the time to get filthy fucking rich off of bitcoin is over. Think of it more as a tool for easy online payments than an investment. Please, for your own good.
On December 04 2013 05:42 FabledIntegral wrote: Would it be possible to invest in bitcoins by simply buying one now and sitting on it, and hoping it appreciates in value? Similar to gold?
On December 03 2013 22:31 deathgod6 wrote: April Fools' came early.
we will be laughing when bitcoin doubles in price again
Bitcoin supporters only talk about the profit a few of them made, and never talk about the thousands of hours and dollars wasted and lost. Or the times it's been hacked. Or the fact that almost no one accepts it except for a now defunct illegal drug trade website. I'm really shocked that Team Liquid would even want bitcoins, I imagine they got some kind of a special deal from the company. This isn't a criticism, just genuine shock.
Teamliquid isn't getting bitcoins. When you pay with btc here, it goes to an address owned by bitpay. Bitpay immediately sells the btc on the open market, and puts the cash (what TL is owed, not what it actually sold for on the market) in teamliquid's bank account. All at a 1% fee or less.
TL is actually getting more dollars in their bank account and faster when you pay with bitcoin than if you pay using another method.
For those who think bitcoin will collapse and go away. I'm actually more concerned that it can't be stopped. No one controls it, yet those who are invested in it will do it's bidding. When autonomous programs and then robots can survive by making bitcoins and hiring humans to improve themselves, we could literally come to a skynet situation. I'm not even joking: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Agents
If a major monetary system collapses and a large group switch to bitcoin, just realize that no one is in the driver's seat. Just like any government, military, corporation, or banking system, it will seek to maximize it's own influence. But this time it's a protocol which runs on silicon and employs humans, robots, and AI to do it's bidding. Watch out.
On December 04 2013 05:42 FabledIntegral wrote: Would it be possible to invest in bitcoins by simply buying one now and sitting on it, and hoping it appreciates in value? Similar to gold?
If you've got a spare ~$1,000 handy, at the moment. Maybe $2k tomorrow. Maybe $20.
It is for sure interesting and we can just hope that bank cockroaches are not able to get their dirty hands on this money too or it will be all gone. Thats the only sure thing when it comes to banks that are allowed to get pay rents (hope that is the right translation). As their approach failed in buying countrys to stop Bitcoins they will for sure try it. And just to get some smart people start too think before they replay because they got offended. There is a reason why there is a whole bank industry that was not at any point get in touch with the last financial crisis. You can google who and maybe you will be surprised
On December 03 2013 22:11 Ragnarork wrote: I'm quite perplexed by this, but that just may be because I see Bitcoin as a fuzzy thing that will go down in flames and die eventually... :/
maybe. people are pretty angry at the international banking system. this is a solution
It's not a solution until you can pay your taxes with it.
On December 04 2013 05:42 FabledIntegral wrote: Would it be possible to invest in bitcoins by simply buying one now and sitting on it, and hoping it appreciates in value? Similar to gold?
If you've got a spare ~$1,000 handy, at the moment. Maybe $2k tomorrow. Maybe $20.
A single btc is divisible down to 8 decimal places, so you can buy any amount. Right now a whole btc is a lot, we're moving toward making mbtc or ubtc the standard unit that's displayed/priced/talked about, etc.
On December 04 2013 06:33 tadL wrote: I am surprised that you join Bitcoin. But with ebay jumping on the train it seems much safer overall.
Banks are already trying to get their dirty hands on bitcoin. The UK Royal Mint is drawing up plans to release a commemorative gold coin which is worth 1 bitcoin, in addition to the gold content. But the catch is that the coin would merely be a receipt for a bitcoin which is held in a database in the Mint's possession, and it would be redeemable for only regular currency equal to the bitcoin market value on a particular day.
In reality they're attempting to issue bitcoins out of thin air by creating something 'equivalent' to bitcoin but redeemable for cash only. They don't actually have to hold a single bitcoin in order to make their scheme work, but it creates an artificial supply. Just the same old tricks. Let me make something clear to everyone: if you don't hold the private key, you don't own any btc. But I doubt it will threaten actual minted btcs because you can't use their system for the many benefits that a real bitcoin has, such as buying things online or less counterpart risk/potential asset seizure. So they may make a few commemorative coins then they'll probably eventually stop. I think it's just an experiment right now.
On December 04 2013 04:18 Noobity wrote: I worry so much that bitcoins are going to devalue work. If you could skip being a doctor or scientist because you find a way to make more money buying a powerful computer network and letting it run passively, what tangible value is there in spending all that time in school to do those jobs?
I don't know, mangs. I'll be honest that I haven't done any research on bitcoins, but the general idea behind it strikes me as worse than the systems we're trying to get away from. I'd be a terrible person to debate with, and I'm abysmal with money. But I'm just incredibly wary.
Good luck with it though, TL. Seems like little to no risk, and it's always good when a company improves on their model, whether nubs like me worry or not.
Oh my god you're so off with your comment my brain hurts! TL is not mining the money.
Currently it's almost impossible at least for me to defeat electricity bills for mining bitcoin without completely specialized systems so...
It is actually fairly profitable to mine other cryptocurrency, other than bitcoin. Like LiteCoin for example. Since their fates are kind of intertwined anyway. LiteCoin being the second largest next to bitcoin. I'm currently looking at about 100 dollars a month profit (780 gtx, 340 kh/s) with electricity bill deducted. I own an Nvidia card though, AMD cards seem to perform much better in this area. A 7990 ($600) gets like 1100 kh/s which almost pays for itself in a month ($500/month) at the moment.
Let me guess: one of the TL programmers is speculating on BTC/USD, and he thinks that having Teamliquid accept Bitcoins as currency will help legitimize cryptocurrencies.
From my limited understanding, bitcoin is more of a way to transfer money more than actually a currency in and of itself. It's use is the fact that the transfer fee is much much lower than most other forms of money transfer, whereas it's much higher for services like paypal or credit card. I mean, sure you could buy and invest in bitcoins, but that's not the main appeal. According to wikipedia: "fees and delays involved in transferring money across borders via bitcoin are small compared to those imposed by banks and their intermediaries in the standard way: pennies compared to dollars and minutes compared to days."
BitCoins are cool and all, but They still have a lot of work ahead of them to equal out the amount of stress it puts on your PC. Also there was a scam going on either this year, or last year where someone in a major company included the bitcoin script into a program where anyone who got the program on their computer it was being used for his profit. The person was obviously caught and the the program was fixed, but A lot of people computers were reported damaged from the stress.
Also, if you come to think of it. Bitcoins can ultimately really hurt the World Economy if it picks up. Since its basing its currency off thin air. It will increase national debt since it is not being produced off a Gold amount.
On December 03 2013 21:34 ROOTSasquatch wrote: I once did some free coaching and the guy insisted on paying me 15 bitcoins, I had no idea what they were at the time so when I reformatted my computer I didn't bother saving the wallet .
Seems like so many places are starting to use bitcoins though so It's nice that TL is too!
some guy lost his hard drive with the key to a hell of a lot bitcoins. that equaled a loss of more than a million dollars if I remember correctly. you should've kept them
On December 04 2013 09:45 Pittski wrote: BitCoins are cool and all, but They still have a lot of work ahead of them to equal out the amount of stress it puts on your PC. Also there was a scam going on either this year, or last year where someone in a major company included the bitcoin script into a program where anyone who got the program on their computer it was being used for his profit. The person was obviously caught and the the program was fixed, but A lot of people computers were reported damaged from the stress.
Also, if you come to think of it. Bitcoins can ultimately really hurt the World Economy if it picks up. Since its basing its currency off thin air. It will increase national debt since it is not being produced off a Gold amount.
No currency uses a gold standard anymore. € $ are all 'based off thin air'. Your thought process is correct, its just being going on for a while now and bitcoins wont be the start of it.
On December 03 2013 22:31 deathgod6 wrote: April Fools' came early.
we will be laughing when bitcoin doubles in price again
Bitcoin supporters only talk about the profit a few of them made, and never talk about the thousands of hours and dollars wasted and lost. Or the times it's been hacked. Or the fact that almost no one accepts it except for a now defunct illegal drug trade website. I'm really shocked that Team Liquid would even want bitcoins, I imagine they got some kind of a special deal from the company. This isn't a criticism, just genuine shock.
Shock you did not bother to fully understand how well supported bitcoins are now.
I am able to easily buy a gift card for Amazon, GameStop, Target and other stores via Gyft instantly. How I paid for half of my PS4 on black friday.
On December 04 2013 05:42 FabledIntegral wrote: Would it be possible to invest in bitcoins by simply buying one now and sitting on it, and hoping it appreciates in value? Similar to gold?
Lots of people do that now, just like any other currency exchange market. The risk is it is extremely volatile right now. It was nice the .3 bitcoins I had mined went from $30 to $300 in 2-3 weeks.
Now it is so slow to mine it is not worth it anymore really. Difficulty and how many miners there are nice are to high. Wish I had done it 2 years ago when my 7950 was new.
Glad to see TL hopping on the bitcoin train. It's certainly an interesting idea, and the future will be interesting for the currency. Wish I had gotten in on it sooner. We stopped operating our bitcoin farm at school back in early 2012 because we thought it wasn't going to be worth it in a few months. Sold most of our bitcoins the following weeks, cashed out with $7,500 (split between 15 people)... Wish we had waited. Could be rolling in money. :c
you should now be able to buy a t-shirt @ TL.net. By design, this is how a deflationary, open-source, decentralized currency is supposed to work.
I won't ever give investment advice, but remember the old chinese proverb: "The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is today".
you should now be able to buy a t-shirt @ TL.net. By design, this is how a deflationary, open-source, decentralized currency is supposed to work.
I won't ever give investment advice, but remember the old chinese proverb: "The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is today".
Enjoy!
You planted that t-shirt for me but I didn't care to give it water. Apparently it died 21 days later. I am sorry.
On December 03 2013 22:31 deathgod6 wrote: April Fools' came early.
we will be laughing when bitcoin doubles in price again
Bitcoin supporters only talk about the profit a few of them made, and never talk about the thousands of hours and dollars wasted and lost. Or the times it's been hacked. Or the fact that almost no one accepts it except for a now defunct illegal drug trade website. I'm really shocked that Team Liquid would even want bitcoins, I imagine they got some kind of a special deal from the company. This isn't a criticism, just genuine shock.
You havent been staying up to date then i guess.. More and more merchants are taking up bitcoin every day. From Wordpress to your local bar down the road. Places like Amazon etc are going to be accepting bitcoin in the near future too.
On December 04 2013 09:45 Pittski wrote: BitCoins are cool and all, but They still have a lot of work ahead of them to equal out the amount of stress it puts on your PC. Also there was a scam going on either this year, or last year where someone in a major company included the bitcoin script into a program where anyone who got the program on their computer it was being used for his profit. The person was obviously caught and the the program was fixed, but A lot of people computers were reported damaged from the stress.
Also, if you come to think of it. Bitcoins can ultimately really hurt the World Economy if it picks up. Since its basing its currency off thin air. It will increase national debt since it is not being produced off a Gold amount.
That was ESEA(not that big of a company) who coded it into their anti cheat program/login system. They just settled in court for a million dollars in damages. Not that big of a story. especially if you are using it as a cautionary story not to get into bitcoin.
On December 03 2013 22:31 deathgod6 wrote: April Fools' came early.
we will be laughing when bitcoin doubles in price again
Not the people trying to actually spend bitcoins instead of hoarding them. It's acting more like "artificial gold" than currency, with this whole deflationary bubble going on. (edit: To clarify, accepting bitcoins is a no-brainer; it's the spending them that's questionable....)
On December 03 2013 21:34 ROOTSasquatch wrote: I once did some free coaching and the guy insisted on paying me 15 bitcoins, I had no idea what they were at the time so when I reformatted my computer I didn't bother saving the wallet .
Seems like so many places are starting to use bitcoins though so It's nice that TL is too!
15x ~1100 atm .. $16500. Thats a whoopsie
At least i dont feel as bad for losing the two that i had when my HDD went out.
Could someone explain to me the idea behind generating bitcoins by letting computers "mine" them? This is exactly the kind of economical... well, bullshit to put it bluntly, that makes me lose faith in... humanity? Making money out of nothing just makes me think of blowing balloons. How can it possibly be that with a super computer, perhaps designed for this single purpose, one can create huge amounts of money? Why would we pay "real money" (let's face it, money is just an agreement of worth) for these mined bitcoins? Why would we support such a crazy system?
Quite frankly though I'm the kind of person who in some ways also hate the stock market for similar reasons.
Anyway... seeing as there's really no risk from TL's side (as has been mentioned earlier in this post) I can completely understand this move. I'm just not liking some aspects of the system. That said, I'm not so sure it's much worse than how other currencies are handled. I guess I'm just a bitter man.
edit: also, it feels extremely unsafe to "store the money" on your harddrive. Sure, you can drop your wallet and lose money, and sure your bank could burn up in flames (figuratively speaking), but having a harddrive die doesn't feel like a way I'd be willing to lose all my money.
On December 05 2013 19:04 Bogeyman wrote: Could someone explain to me the idea behind generating bitcoins by letting computers "mine" them? This is exactly the kind of economical... well, bullshit to put it bluntly, that makes me lose faith in... humanity? Making money out of nothing just makes me think of blowing balloons. How can it possibly be that with a super computer, perhaps designed for this single purpose, one can create huge amounts of money? Why would we pay "real money" (let's face it, money is just an agreement of worth) for these mined bitcoins? Why would we support such a crazy system?
Quite frankly though I'm the kind of person who in some ways also hate the stock market for similar reasons.
Anyway... seeing as there's really no risk from TL's side (as has been mentioned earlier in this post) I can completely understand this move. I'm just not liking some aspects of the system. That said, I'm not so sure it's much worse than how other currencies are handled. I guess I'm just a bitter man.
edit: also, it feels extremely unsafe to "store the money" on your harddrive. Sure, you can drop your wallet and lose money, and sure your bank could burn up in flames (figuratively speaking), but having a harddrive die doesn't feel like a way I'd be willing to lose all my money.
You're missing the other point of the mining side. The mining is mainly to verify transactions, to make them permanent and for doing that you get a reward. Note that this reward is the same, globally, no matter how many miners. There will still only be 25* bitcoins awarded every 10 minutes. This means that if you had close to 100% of the network (practically impossible) you'd still be capped at 25 bitcoins per 10 minutes. By giving an incentive to mine bitcoins you promote decentralization since every one wants a part in it. This in turn increases the security of the network which makes it harder to control by a central authority, e.g a large government.
The value of bitcoin lies in it fast global decentralized system where you can send transactions almost for free and that's why people are willing to pay money for it.**
Yes, there is a risk with storing it on your hard drive. However, for example Armory lets you create a simple paper backup that you can store wherever you want in case you forget your password or your hard drive fails. Some people even store these backups in bank vaults. Bitcoin is still in its infancy. The ground work is done and the system works. What is left is services built on top of the protocol to make it all easier to use. I'm sure that there will be more services acting as banks in which you can keep your money if you're worried.
Please keep asking questions, and try to keep an open mind. That's the way one learns new things.
As much as I like the decentralized mining argument, when the next and future generation of ASICs are out, mining is going to become the domain of those who can afford huge datacenters and ridiculous setups like this. This basically means only a handful of such companies will be producing blocks and thus in control of the entire bitcoin network, which is a worrying thought. What if they decide to require a minimum TX fee or only confirm blocks from their "financial partners"?
On December 05 2013 19:51 R1CH wrote: As much as I like the decentralized mining argument, when the next and future generation of ASICs are out, mining is going to become the domain of those who can afford huge datacenters and ridiculous setups like this. This basically means only a handful of such companies will be producing blocks and thus in control of the entire bitcoin network, which is a worrying thought. What if they decide to require a minimum TX fee or only confirm blocks from their "financial partners"?
It is worrying indeed. I don't really know what to say. I think that they still won't control a large enough portion of the network for this to have an effect. Also remember that for every TX they reject they miss out on the fee. There are crude ways in which one can prevent this "selective mining". As long as not more than 50% of the network is controlled by these companies the rest of the network can enforce whatever rules they want, including excluding some parties. As I said, a crude way, but there are ways and I'm fairly sure that this is a concern that is discussed, a lot.
On December 05 2013 19:51 R1CH wrote: As much as I like the decentralized mining argument, when the next and future generation of ASICs are out, mining is going to become the domain of those who can afford huge datacenters and ridiculous setups like this. This basically means only a handful of such companies will be producing blocks and thus in control of the entire bitcoin network, which is a worrying thought. What if they decide to require a minimum TX fee or only confirm blocks from their "financial partners"?
Well the solution is to start with something too weird for big companies to throw their chips in. That way a lot of initial currency will be randomly - well not randomly but geekishly randomly - distributed outside of blue collars grasp. Corporations are not too eager to gamble with their money while people do it all the time.
I never bought any Bitcoin, but I did buy the first issue of the Bitcoin magazine which appears to be pretty damn rare nowadays lol. I don't understand the market at all so I'd never touch it personally, but these prices sure are crazy.
i just hope TL are xchanging these bitcoins into 'mainstream' currency immediately after the purchase
On December 05 2013 19:51 R1CH wrote: As much as I like the decentralized mining argument, when the next and future generation of ASICs are out, mining is going to become the domain of those who can afford huge datacenters and ridiculous setups like this. This basically means only a handful of such companies will be producing blocks and thus in control of the entire bitcoin network, which is a worrying thought. What if they decide to require a minimum TX fee or only confirm blocks from their "financial partners"?
I think this is a really important point to think about. One possible deterrent is that bitcoin is open source. Therefore there is a constant threat that someone could simply make an alt-coin if people get fed up with current coin. Imagine you own millions of dollars worth of hardware and someone gets pissed off and changes a few lines of code, literally making all of the hardware obsolete.
Or more likely there will be a dozen alt-coins out there (as there is now), and the second bitcoin becomes too much of a hassle and with too many fees, people will start going towards low-fee coins. Then you'll have this bitcoin special interest group which will actively try to destabilize alt-coin markets, computationally attack alt-coins, create media campaigns against them, covertly create intentional pump-and-dump schemes to delegitimize them, and try to get regulations passed against them. It's going to get crazy indeed.
Then what may eventually happen when all this has run it's course is that every corporation, government, and manufacturing entity will create their own exclusive coin, which is the only form of payment they accept for their goods and services. To buy a product from x company, you need to use their coin. When x company buys something from someone or another company, they have to buy some of those coins off the market using their coins which they collect by selling products. There will be an exchange rate depending on how rare the coins are and how valuable the products of that company are. It will basically be a form of credit which backs each individual currency, similar to how credit backs modern currencies. But totally decentralized and fragmented. This will allow the money supply to expand and contract as needed. If you get born, get good at something, and gain a reputation, you can potentially create your own currency to allow you to buy things from other people. So some poor person in some third world country need not be poor simply because he can't get USD because a big corporation hasn't offered him a job yet. The monetary flows won't dictate relative wealth, but rather ability and creditworthiness. Taxation would be the requirement of paying for government services, which can only be paid in government coin.
That's an interesting thought. Changing the algorithm slightly so the hardware ASICs become worthless would be pretty trivial, but would require the majority of the network to be on board with the changes, upgrade or decide on a switch time and even then it would would still likely cause some huge blockchain forks.
On December 03 2013 21:34 ROOTSasquatch wrote: I once did some free coaching and the guy insisted on paying me 15 bitcoins, I had no idea what they were at the time so when I reformatted my computer I didn't bother saving the wallet .
Seems like so many places are starting to use bitcoins though so It's nice that TL is too!
some guy lost his hard drive with the key to a hell of a lot bitcoins. that equaled a loss of more than a million dollars if I remember correctly. you should've kept them
A different case perhaps, but there has been a story in the news here in the UK recently about a guy who accidentally threw away coins worth around £4 million today (more than $6.5 million).
Poor bastard, can't even imagine how I'd feel when I realised I'd just thrown away £4.6 million.
On December 06 2013 01:47 Trowa127 wrote: I never bought any Bitcoin, but I did buy the first issue of the Bitcoin magazine which appears to be pretty damn rare nowadays lol. I don't understand the market at all so I'd never touch it personally, but these prices sure are crazy.
i just hope TL are xchanging these bitcoins into 'mainstream' currency immediately after the purchase
On December 05 2013 19:51 R1CH wrote: As much as I like the decentralized mining argument, when the next and future generation of ASICs are out, mining is going to become the domain of those who can afford huge datacenters and ridiculous setups like this. This basically means only a handful of such companies will be producing blocks and thus in control of the entire bitcoin network, which is a worrying thought. What if they decide to require a minimum TX fee or only confirm blocks from their "financial partners"?
I think this is a really important point to think about. One possible deterrent is that bitcoin is open source. Therefore there is a constant threat that someone could simply make an alt-coin if people get fed up with current coin. Imagine you own millions of dollars worth of hardware and someone gets pissed off and changes a few lines of code, literally making all of the hardware obsolete.
Or more likely there will be a dozen alt-coins out there (as there is now), and the second bitcoin becomes too much of a hassle and with too many fees, people will start going towards low-fee coins. Then you'll have this bitcoin special interest group which will actively try to destabilize alt-coin markets, computationally attack alt-coins, create media campaigns against them, covertly create intentional pump-and-dump schemes to delegitimize them, and try to get regulations passed against them. It's going to get crazy indeed.
Then what may eventually happen when all this has run it's course is that every corporation, government, and manufacturing entity will create their own exclusive coin, which is the only form of payment they accept for their goods and services. To buy a product from x company, you need to use their coin. When x company buys something from someone or another company, they have to buy some of those coins off the market using their coins which they collect by selling products. There will be an exchange rate depending on how rare the coins are and how valuable the products of that company are. It will basically be a form of credit which backs each individual currency, similar to how credit backs modern currencies. But totally decentralized and fragmented. This will allow the money supply to expand and contract as needed. If you get born, get good at something, and gain a reputation, you can potentially create your own currency to allow you to buy things from other people. So some poor person in some third world country need not be poor simply because he can't get USD because a big corporation hasn't offered him a job yet. The monetary flows won't dictate relative wealth, but rather ability and creditworthiness. Taxation would be the requirement of paying for government services, which can only be paid in government coin.
you do realize that this is a bad thing, right? fragmented currency is hell. imagine all the exchange agents who would take fees for every transaction. and the endless possibilities for speculations. and people in third world countries aren't poor because they can't get dollars. I really hope not every bitcoin supporter is as naive as this post makes it look like.
Also bitcoin supporters start to become annoying. Some of them sound like they are on a crusade.
On December 18 2013 23:06 R1CH wrote: As mentioned in the OP, we're using bitpay at equivalent US / Euro rates. There's no risk to TL from fluctuating markets.
I should have known you guys would have it done ha, my bad. I know a few people accepting direct wallet payments for services, not good. Hopefully some people learnt a lesson today.
Good to know that you’re now accepting bitcoin. I read from BitcoinDaily that many businesses are actually starting to do the same. They know how cost-effective bitcoin is for business operations.
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/R1CH/bitcoinacceptedhere.png)
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lalala.
