EPTThe Value of ROOT_Destiny in Starcraft 2 - Page 13
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: Destiny is caustic and turns a lot of people off. In addition to just not wanting to be associated with his philosphy, many teams will have a legitimate concern about anti-fans. I, for one, root for complexity more often for not putting up with Destiny's rude language and casual insults. I'd love to ask you (and people who share this opinion), what do you think of IdrA? | ||
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bech
Denmark162 Posts
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pikachu856
United Kingdom20 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:09 Zorkmid wrote: It was on a SoTG, he didn't laugh at all (you people make shit up a lot), just said that he wouldn't be interested in having him on SixJax actually he did laugh on artosistv, he did a twitter self interview and that's the question he chose. his response was a giggle, followed by a no. | ||
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EnderSword
Canada669 Posts
He's very opinionated, and I find I often disagree with him even when I agree with him, because he just takes his points way too far and extreme. In terms of skill level...ya, he's good enough to be on a team...but he's chosen not to be on one. He was on a team, and that team got taken over, and he was supposed to go over, but he just broke the contract instead. He's not a team player type guy, and that's fine...but its really his decision not to be on one. And he's simply not good enough for anyone to want to bend rules for him. No one would put up with IdrA if he wasn't so good, and you've got Destiny with a much more offensive and objectionable personality than him. Same thing goes for a CombatEx type guy, no one cares, he's too big a liability to bother with unless he was winning GSLs It's hard to actually give a skill number for the guy though without an objective scale. The top scale is Easy if you're Making NesTea a 10 But then If you say MC, MMA, PuMa, MVP are like 9s HuK, Hong-Un, MKP maybe 8s... Really depends on your frame of reference, I think Destiny would basically get killed by any Code A Korean, and I wouldn't say like, IM_Yoda ranks as a 7 or something. But if you consider a 1 to be like the worst tier of players who are still Pro players..maybe Destiny's a 2 or 3? But on that Scale I'd also have Machine as like a 3 or Incontrol as a 4. Kind of in that 'Half decent for North America...never gonna win anything though' type bracket. | ||
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divito
Canada1213 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: Destiny is caustic and turns a lot of people off. In addition to just not wanting to be associated with his philosphy, many teams will have a legitimate concern about anti-fans. I, for one, root for complexity more often for not putting up with Destiny's rude language and casual insults. Are you a prude? Through streaming, we get a direct view at mainly adolescent and maturing individuals in the comfort of their own space. If we had athletes of other sports with home video type material, I can assure you that there might be some pretty offensive stuff to some people contained within. Not to mention that of on-field, on-ice, on-court verbal exchanges from professional games, many of such occurrences would be abhorring to many people. In fact, ask a lot of people who have been to sports events and had the ability to be within earshot of the athletes, and they'll tell you the kind of stuff that goes on during a game. Now contrast that with our sport, and whatever may be contained on streams or eSports shows, there is very little true BM that extends into live events and most players handle their matches, dealings with players and interviews quite well; Destiny included. I think we as a society/community are a little more sensitive to some things, and less towards others, and it's because we as a community have direct access to those that are quasi-"celebrities." It doesn't put those players at any less of a standpoint as other sports and their athletes however. To be honest, if there were some organizations and companies that would discredit a person over their ability to express themselves, I'd certainly like to know. | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:16 Zorkmid wrote: I'd love to ask you (and people who share this opinion), what do you think of IdrA? He's a bit of a whiner, but his BM also has a reputation of being mostly for show. Reputation for getting along great with other players off-camera. And since I don't have a problem with profanity, only the incessant balance whining bothers me. I also wish Idra would set up a damn flank more than once in a blue moon. Mostly, it's just fun to watch him play. Destiny has a holier-than-thou attitude and has said on places like State of the Game no one should take offense at being insulted, that he's actually improving society, etc. Frankly, his pseudo-linguistic justifications are worse than any one offensive statement to me. It's because of those interviews, not his stream (I don't watch), that I dislike him. He also doesn't seem to switch off the talk-over-others aggression, unlike Idra. However, I'm fully willing to note that since I don't watch Destiny's stream, I have a smaller sample-size of unpleasantness to draw from. Staying on-topic for this thread, outside PR opportunities are a big consideration for teams. As a team manager, you'd have to wonder if Destiny would promote a product he found some little complaint about. | ||
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Oasx
Denmark72 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:16 Zorkmid wrote: I'd love to ask you (and people who share this opinion), what do you think of IdrA? I am not a fan of Idra, but what Destiny does on a regular basis is much worse than anything Idra has said, i really don't know why it is so hard for Destiny fans to understand this, the guy uses homophobic and racist slurs on his stream, the fact that 7000 people think its cool to say the N and F words does not mean it is ok among most people to use that kind of language. Even if he was the best player in the world, no major team would want to be associated with a guy like that. I am fully aware that Destiny probably means no ill with his words, but the fact that he thinks that black people shouldn't be offended by the N word, just shows that he is ignorant. Destiny should continue doing what he wants to do, if he can make a living streaming that is good for him, but everyone apart from the hardcore Destiny fans know exactly why no major teams are interested in him.. | ||
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Hollow27
United States111 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:26 MisterFred wrote: He's a bit of a whiner, but his BM also has a reputation of being mostly for show. Reputation for getting along great with other players off-camera. And since I don't have a problem with profanity, only the incessant balance whining bothers me. I also wish Idra would set up a damn flank more than once in a blue moon. Mostly, it's just fun to watch him play. Destiny has a holier-than-thou attitude and has said on places like State of the Game no one should take offense at being insulted, that he's actually improving society, etc. Frankly, his pseudo-linguistic justifications are worse than any one offensive statement to me. It's because of those interviews, not his stream (I don't watch), that I dislike him. He also doesn't seem to switch off the talk-over-others aggression, unlike Idra. However, I'm fully willing to note that since I don't watch Destiny's stream, I have a smaller sample-size of unpleasantness to draw from. Staying on-topic for this thread, outside PR opportunities are a big consideration for teams. As a team manager, you'd have to wonder if Destiny would promote a product he found some little complaint about. He doesn't have a holier than thou attitude, he has a "Being offended is pointless," attitude. Search for "Destiny argues with Nate" if you have 10 minutes to spare, it was an interesting video. | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:24 divito wrote: Are you a prude? Through streaming, we get a direct view at mainly adolescent and maturing individuals in the comfort of their own space. If we had athletes of other sports with home video type material, I can assure you that there might be some pretty offensive stuff to some people contained within. Not to mention that of on-field, on-ice, on-court verbal exchanges from professional games, many of such occurrences would be abhorring to many people. In fact, ask a lot of people who have been to sports events and had the ability to be within earshot of the athletes, and they'll tell you the kind of stuff that goes on during a game. Now contrast that with our sport, and whatever may be contained on streams or eSports shows, there is very little true BM that extends into live events and most players handle their matches, dealings with players and interviews quite well; Destiny included. I think we as a society/community are a little more sensitive to some things, and less towards others, and it's because we as a community have direct access to those that are quasi-"celebrities." It doesn't put those players at any less of a standpoint as other sports and their athletes however. To be honest, if there were some organizations and companies that would discredit a person over their ability to express themselves, I'd certainly like to know. Am I a prude? No. Are other people also irritating and immature? Yes. I don't care if other athletes are though: I don't watch other sports. Does SC2 have little true BM? Yes, the community is relatively well-mannered. One of the reasons I like it. Destiny drags that down a bit. One of the reasons I don't like him. He also claims to not drag that down a bit, the larger reason I don't like him. | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:30 Hollow27 wrote: He doesn't have a holier than thou attitude, he has a "Being offended is pointless," attitude. Search for "Destiny argues with Nate" if you have 10 minutes to spare, it was an interesting video. He did have a holier than thou attitude on his state of the game interview. And his logic of "no matter what I say it's not offensive" was downright stupid. Edit: In general, I agree with everything Oasx posted. Looks like he has a better knowledge of Destiny's stream, too. Well said. | ||
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dark_dragoon10
United States299 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: I am fully aware that Destiny probably means no ill with his words, but the fact that he thinks that black people shouldn't be offended by the N word, just shows that he is ignorant. he might be a comedian... but hes right... | ||
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Dayrlan
United States248 Posts
On August 22 2011 13:22 TemujinGK wrote: On a scale of 1-10 how would you rank Destiny as a player? To this question EGalex responded: Tossing in my two cents: If I had to rate Destiny on each of those four categories, I'd place him similarly to Alex (listed in order of Destiny's strengths to his weaknesses). **One of the strongest in Category 4 (from my perspective, the only NA players that clearly draw more viewers (for any event) than Destiny are - notably - IdrA and HuK). **I'd also place him above average in Category 2. He definitely puts in as much, or more, time than the vast majority of progamers. The quality of how he spends his time is somewhat debatable, though. He could benefit from grinding out more focused practice games -- intentional work on specific aspects of his play, like reps of early-game ZvT for instance. **In Category 3, I'd disagree with Alex's assessment that Destiny's personality effectively makes him unmarketable (or however his comment should be interpreted precisely). Rather, I think the specific strengths/weakness of Destiny in this category are fundamentally disjoint from the typical strengths and weaknesses of the typical public figure. That is, it's hard to discount the implicit, underlying causes of his strong fan base (which I do NOT believe is due to some misguided "shock" factor, etc). The fact of the matter is, Destiny is a more genuine human being than a number of "public figures" in the SC2 scene. That counts for more than I think Alex is giving due. And frankly, if you can successfully market IdrA's personality, then you can market Destiny's personality. **Undeniably, Destiny's greatest weakness is in his major tournament results. But I have to draw an (apt) comparison to a number of EG's less successful players here. How do Destiny's results really compare to, say, StrifeCo's results? Or Axslav's? Even InControl, in my opinion, has less potential to post good tournament results than Destiny. Sure, InControl has placed higher than Destiny in a series of MLG's, but I can't help but believe that's due to InControl's Championship Bracket placement. After all, what - really - is the lowest place you can get at MLG if you're seeded into the Championship Bracket? I seriously believe this is a case of the red carpet being rolled out for one player, and the other getting short-changed and having to overcome greater obstacles in order to achieve the same reward. Does anyone really believe InControl would survive an MLG Open Bracket? --- Long story short: Destiny has massive investment potential, from the perspective of a team manager, that I believe is being overlooked in Alex's assessment. If someone with EG's resources approached Destiny with some creativity in their management and marketing of him, I can't imagine they wouldn't be able to make a huge payoff. | ||
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divito
Canada1213 Posts
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Hollow27
United States111 Posts
Those are Destiny's opinions about language if anyone cares. Also, has stated on his stream multiple times that he does not want to join a team. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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EnderSword
Canada669 Posts
**In Category 3, I'd disagree with Alex's assessment that Destiny's personality effectively makes him unmarketable (or however his comment should be interpreted precisely). Rather, I think the specific strengths/weakness of Destiny in this category are fundamentally disjoint from the typical strengths and weaknesses of the typical public figure. That is, it's hard to discount the implicit, underlying causes of his strong fan base (which I do NOT believe is due to some misguided "shock" factor, etc). The fact of the matter is, Destiny is a more genuine human being than a number of "public figures" in the SC2 scene. That counts for more than I think Alex is giving due. And frankly, if you can successfully market IdrA's personality, then you can market Destiny's personality. I think here though you've got to account for Destiny not wanting to BE marketable. You can have a lot fans but still have no marketability for a team. Imagine Alex trying to pitch this guy to his sponsors. "Hello Pepsi, We've got this great team..there's a husky guy who's on a few talk shows who plays Protoss, there's a zerg guy who BMs opponents and really speaks his mind about game balance and is quite a character..oh and we've got Destiny, he's an anti-corporate communist who thinks gays and blacks should shut up while he uses slurs against them...so guys, how 'bout it?" He just would not allow himself to be marketed. He'd be just as likely to pick up a microphone and tell everyone why SteelSeries sucks. He's better off in the type of thing he's doing now, he's doing just fine making money that way. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote: I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex. If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it. Why is this even a topic of discussion? Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5 Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up. Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late. | ||
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bech
Denmark162 Posts
But then again, I for one fucking hate the whole manner-thing. Come on, this is a competitive sport - and competition without emotion is nothing. You can win with grace, sure, but everyone spamming "BM" at the sight of a quirky remark is so fucking ridiculous. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:48 Zlasher wrote: Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5 Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up. Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late. I didn't realize that the OP did this, I gotta agree with everything you just said. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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