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On August 23 2011 01:47 Hollow27 wrote:Those are Destiny's opinions about language if anyone cares. Also, has stated on his stream multiple times that he does not want to join a team. + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +
Actually he has been telling SlayersCella he wants to come to Korea and play there. I am sure that is not really possible for him without a team.
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On August 23 2011 01:48 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote:
I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion? Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5 Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up. Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late.
It's really not too late to nuke the thread if so.
I've had PM conversations in a similar vein where the person has asked for the discussion to be kept confidential, and I respected that. If Alex wanted it kept private, I'm sure he would have said as much in so many words, yes?
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There is so much wrong with this post...
First of all, of course, Destiny is not on ROOT nor does ROOT exist anymore.
"Rate a player's skill" this is impossible to do. What do you rate Nestea, is he a 10 (perfect player? best player?) What about MC? Tarson? Everybody is going to have vastly different opinions on how a rating system works. If a 5 is the average SC2 player then Destiny is a 9-10. If a 5 if the average code A Korean then Destiny is a 3. You can't get valuable results from a poll like this.
Also, it's all moot because Destiny is not a pro SC2 player at the moment, he is a pro streamer, and he makes more money doing that than he would if he became a pro player (according to him). If all those ladder hours were hours spent in a team house training, I have no doubt he could go places. But that's not where his priorities lie, so let's give the issue a rest.
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On August 23 2011 01:48 EnderSword wrote:Show nested quote +**In Category 3, I'd disagree with Alex's assessment that Destiny's personality effectively makes him unmarketable (or however his comment should be interpreted precisely). Rather, I think the specific strengths/weakness of Destiny in this category are fundamentally disjoint from the typical strengths and weaknesses of the typical public figure. That is, it's hard to discount the implicit, underlying causes of his strong fan base (which I do NOT believe is due to some misguided "shock" factor, etc).
The fact of the matter is, Destiny is a more genuine human being than a number of "public figures" in the SC2 scene. That counts for more than I think Alex is giving due. And frankly, if you can successfully market IdrA's personality, then you can market Destiny's personality. I think here though you've got to account for Destiny not wanting to BE marketable. You can have a lot fans but still have no marketability for a team. Imagine Alex trying to pitch this guy to his sponsors. "Hello Pepsi, We've got this great team..there's a husky guy who's on a few talk shows who plays Protoss, there's a zerg guy who BMs opponents and really speaks his mind about game balance and is quite a character..oh and we've got Destiny, he's an anti-corporate communist who thinks gays and blacks should shut up while he uses slurs against them...so guys, how 'bout it?" He just would not allow himself to be marketed. He'd be just as likely to pick up a microphone and tell everyone why SteelSeries sucks. He's better off in the type of thing he's doing now, he's doing just fine making money that way.
If Destiny was as unmarketable as you suggest, then Complexity wouldn't have picked him up in the first place.
And speaking of, Destiny leaving Complexity had nothing to do with marketability. It had to do with Destiny and Complexity not being a good fit for one another. Building the right relationship plays extremely strongly into this, and there's no reason why one couldn't be built with Destiny by a prospective team.
Also - anti-corporate communist? Not sure how seriously to take you. >_> Of course he has principled views about language and the use of language, but that belies how nice of a guy he is. Have you ever, once, seen him be bigoted towards an actual person? (Answer: No.)
IdrA has a worse track record in this department than Destiny. The only way you could believe otherwise is by listening to what people say about Destiny rather than listening to what Destiny says.
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Destiny is a lot better than a good deal of the people who hate on him. Incontrol is a good example of this, Incontrol needs to shut the hell up about Destiny if he wants people to continue to view him professionally, claims like, "Infestors help him beat players five times better than him" just make him look stupid as well. I think everyone realizes just how over the top Infestors would need to be to be that good. They may or may not be imbalanced, but they aren't that imbalanced.
Then you look at his stream viewership, people talking about things such as anti-fans (This would still get you viewership of tournaments, by the way, if an anti-fan doesn't have someone they like to watch they'd be much more willing to watch someone they hate and hope they lose. Just like other sports, for example, I enjoy watching Lebron James lose more than a random team) and they also talk about how his stream turns people off. It turns prudes off, that's it, and you want to know how many prudes there are? Not many, according to his viewer numbers. Sponsorship may be a different issue but saying that his personality is anything but magnetic regarding viewership is just flat out wrong. Any team that wants more viewership should pick up Destiny, it would increase the viewership of their team as a whole, not just by adding the viewers from Destiny on Destinys stream but likely these viewers would spill over to watch Destinys new teammates as well.
Finally, his language/BM. If you look at just how long Destiny has streamed his BM comparative to the amount of time he plays is not high at all, in fact just about every other stream I watch save a few (Such as Whitera, Lz) have more BM on average I'd say. His language, not so much the cursing but the "other stuff" isn't a big deal to me, I can't speak for everyone but I will say this if language for languages sake offends you then I have a problem with how think about things at a base level. It should be the intent behind the language that offends you if anything. Of course now a days everyone is politically correct. INTENT people.
Debo on the "N" word, warning: Easily offended, don't watch.
One last time; Destinys BM ISN'T AS BAD AS AT LEAST HALF THE PEOPLE WHO STREAM, STOP HANGING ON THAT ARGUMENT.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:54 Dayrlan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 01:48 Zlasher wrote:On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote:
I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion? Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5 Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up. Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late. It's really not too late to nuke the thread if so. I've had PM conversations in a similar vein where the person has asked for the discussion to be kept confidential, and I respected that. If Alex wanted it kept private, I'm sure he would have said as much in so many words, yes?
Not everyone can stay on top of reminding every single person they talk to, to keep their private consersations just that. If a question was asked, and answered through a private medium, it is proper etiquette to ask permission before releasing the contents. Then again, you wanted to argue against his conclusions, so I can understand why you didn't ask.
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His series versus iNcontroL was pretty pathetic... All it showed was that iNcontroL had no handle on Destiny's style at all... TBH, in small army engagements and overall macro iNcontroL was superior... he just had no answer whatsoever to Destiny's playstyle. People say iNcontroL didn't win a real macro game... but it wasn't that his macro was worse than Destiny's in the slightest, it was simply that Destiny's way of playing is just so overwhelmingly different what was is done by most Zerg players.
Destiny is also famously weak against strong armed early/midgame pushes... which is why he never gets to groups in the two MLG's he's been to. iNcontroL is really all style kinda player... but even then, Destiny's lategame ZvP is just unbearably awesomely good...
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United States10774 Posts
I am not sure why so many people find Destiny offensive and ill-mannered. I never really knew who he was until I started watching his stream a while ago. He is an entertaining and genuine character - he never goes out of his way to insult people from what I have seen. Sometimes he would fire back when being insulted but I have never seen him respond overly aggressive or rashly. Yes, he is very opinionated. So what? I prefer his strong character over someone who's boring. I don't have to agree with everything he says. That doesn't bother me at all.
As for his marketability, he is one of the best out there. Unmarketable because of his strong personality? No way, that's exactly what makes someone marketable. His huge fan base and marketability are directly related. Hate him or love him, he is a character in the community with a giant fan-base. Wherever he goes, he will generate a lot of attention and bring a large crowd of fans with him. People will continue to watch his stream, follow his matches and have conversations about him. Not many players in the community can do that.
On to his skill levell, I rate him about a 6. It obviously depends heavily on the scale itself so this is an extremely subjective rating. However, I believe that he is better than every single person on the current EG roster except IdrA, HuK, PuMa and maybe DeMuslim (he is underrated). If you saw Destiny's series against Incontrol, you could clearly tell that Destiny was a more sound player. Blame it on whatever you want, Destiny outplayed Incontrol in every macro and non-cheese games.
I don't really care if he joins a team or not. I like the dude and hope he keeps improving until one day he can get a title under his name.
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On August 23 2011 02:11 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 01:54 Dayrlan wrote:On August 23 2011 01:48 Zlasher wrote:On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote:
I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion? Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5 Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up. Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late. It's really not too late to nuke the thread if so. I've had PM conversations in a similar vein where the person has asked for the discussion to be kept confidential, and I respected that. If Alex wanted it kept private, I'm sure he would have said as much in so many words, yes? Not everyone can stay on top of reminding every single person they talk to, to keep their private consersations just that. If a question was asked, and answered through a private medium, it is proper etiquette to ask permission before releasing the contents. Then again, you wanted to argue against his conclusions, so I can understand why you didn't ask.
In two parts:
Italicized parts: If it's such a sensitive issue that you'd be upset if people discuss it, why not ask that it be kept private? I'm not really convinced this is even that big of a deal anyway. Alex expressed some fairly middle-of-the-road, non-inflammatory, realistic opinions.
Non-italicized part: Why I didn't ask? Are you confused? I didn't start this thread. Moreover, did you even read what I wrote? I agreed with Alex more than disagreed with him. I think Alex's opinions and my opinions on the topic are like 90% in agreement.
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He is a comedic entertainer, more or less like a clown. People will be entertained, but no one will ever take him seriously.
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On August 23 2011 02:20 ReTr0[p.S] wrote:
He is a comedic entertainer, more or less like a clown. People will be entertained, but no one will ever take him seriously.
He doesn't need to be taken seriously when he beats you, or others who hate on him including players who continue to profess to being much better players than him. Just saying.
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With upmost respect, there are many people in the world who use vulgar language daily in life and that hinders them in their profession. Same goes for Starcraft 2.
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On August 23 2011 02:21 birdkicker wrote:
With upmost respect, there are many people in the world who use vulgar language daily in life and that hinders them in their profession. Same goes for Starcraft 2.
I can't help but think this comment is more personally derogatory than anything Destiny has ever said.
Edit: Of course, you edited your comment to clean it up before I posted mine.  Of course.
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On August 23 2011 02:11 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 01:54 Dayrlan wrote:On August 23 2011 01:48 Zlasher wrote:On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote:
I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion? Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5 Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up. Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late. It's really not too late to nuke the thread if so. I've had PM conversations in a similar vein where the person has asked for the discussion to be kept confidential, and I respected that. If Alex wanted it kept private, I'm sure he would have said as much in so many words, yes? Not everyone can stay on top of reminding every single person they talk to, to keep their private consersations just that. If a question was asked, and answered through a private medium, it is proper etiquette to ask permission before releasing the contents. Then again, you wanted to argue against his conclusions, so I can understand why you didn't ask.
Yeah I agree, its not his job to tell everyone he replies to, if a question is asked in private and answered in private that is how it should stay...
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On August 23 2011 02:20 ReTr0[p.S] wrote:
He is a comedic entertainer, more or less like a clown. People will be entertained, but no one will ever take him seriously.
this is the exact answer we can close this topic now, also destiny is plateaued in skill and will never get better anyway going to korea is just laughable.
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On August 23 2011 02:21 birdkicker wrote:
With upmost respect, there are many people in the world who use vulgar language daily in life and that hinders them in their profession. Same goes for Starcraft 2.
I really don't want to drag this off-topic, but you are opening up a can of worms with that, at least in my opinion. Everyone is striving to be so politically correct now a days that they simply take things at face value.
There's a very, very large difference between someone saying the "N" word with hateful intent behind it and someone saying the "N" word without hateful intent behind it. There's always the person who brings up, "But why say it if you aren't being hateful", well why say the "F" word if you aren't fornicating, or why say bitch when you aren't referring to a female canine. Intent is everything and I believe the truly intelligent people realize that, of course that means it'll never apply to the main stream, but the main stream is busy with Facebook and Hannah Montanna.
As for language holding back peoples careers, there's two things you have to keep in mind. One, this is the internet, the most "free" place there is. People have been saying whatever the hell they want for a long time now, I'm not saying that means that people have to hire people who do that but Destiny BM's a lot less than people say he does and he doesn't say the racist things with a hateful intent behind them, at least not with their original meaning.
Secondly and here's the important one, there are plenty of careers, especially in the competitive "sports" (Whether you view this as a type of sport or not isn't relevant because my intent is obvious) where language is either accepted or ignored. I'll give you a few examples, I live in LA and (used to) watch the Lakers frequently, there are many times in their broadcasts where for some reason or another the mics on the court pic up uncensored cursing including from players such as Kobe Bryant, including saying the "N" word and slurs towards gay people. I've also watched football, the Denver Broncos and seen some of my favorite players (When they were less awful) do the EXACT same thing.
And just to reiterate once more, Destiny isn't as bad as half the people who stream that I've watched and isn't 10% as bad as some of the haters make him out.
On August 23 2011 02:28 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 02:11 Telcontar wrote:On August 23 2011 01:54 Dayrlan wrote:On August 23 2011 01:48 Zlasher wrote:On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote:
I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion? Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5 Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up. Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late. It's really not too late to nuke the thread if so. I've had PM conversations in a similar vein where the person has asked for the discussion to be kept confidential, and I respected that. If Alex wanted it kept private, I'm sure he would have said as much in so many words, yes? Not everyone can stay on top of reminding every single person they talk to, to keep their private consersations just that. If a question was asked, and answered through a private medium, it is proper etiquette to ask permission before releasing the contents. Then again, you wanted to argue against his conclusions, so I can understand why you didn't ask. Yeah I agree, its not his job to tell everyone he replies to, if a question is asked in private and answered in private that is how it should stay...
If you are going to answer a question in a way that you want kept private, say so. Otherwise it's as good as public. Granted, it'd be much more courteous if the person asking the question also asked for permission to post about said question either in the question or in a subsequent PM but that doesn't change anything.
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On August 23 2011 01:48 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote:
I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion? Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5 Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up. Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late.
Can't agree with this more. Not only does the idea of a thread that tries to rate the 'value' of a player rub the the wrong way, but the fact that someone took the time to respond to a PM and then is rewarded by having that PM (read Private Message) posted on a thread as the main piece of evidence to fuel this discussion bothers the hell out of me. That's not to say EGalex hasn't stated his opinion or recruiting a player like Destiny before. He has, in multiple places. Which is part of the reason I'm perplexed as to why you wouldn't quote from one of those sources and instead would just post his PM. The SC2 community is lucky enough to have team members like EGalex active and willing to respond to community members on a regular basis, but if we start taking every PM they send us and posting it publicly, I guarantee you that will stop.
As for the topic of Destiny being on a team, do we not remember when he was on a team and left because he didn't feel it was the right environment for him? He's a fairly skilled player who has managed to support himself the way he feels is best for him. Kudos to him. I'm still not sure what this thread is trying to accomplish, other than create a flame war -.-
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On August 23 2011 02:21 HereticSaint wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 02:20 ReTr0[p.S] wrote:
He is a comedic entertainer, more or less like a clown. People will be entertained, but no one will ever take him seriously. He doesn't need to be taken seriously when he beats you, or others who hate on him including players who continue to profess to being much better players than him. Just saying.
I like your argument, reminds me of when I was 11.
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On August 23 2011 02:36 HereticSaint wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 02:21 birdkicker wrote:
With upmost respect, there are many people in the world who use vulgar language daily in life and that hinders them in their profession. Same goes for Starcraft 2. I really don't want to drag this off-topic, but you are opening up a can of worms with that, at least in my opinion. Everyone is striving to be so politically correct now a days that they simply take things at face value. There's a very, very large difference between someone saying the "N" word with hateful intent behind it and someone saying the "N" word without hateful intent behind it. There's always the person who brings up, "But why say it if you aren't being hateful", well why say the "F" word if you aren't fornicating, or why say bitch when you aren't referring to a female canine. Intent is everything and I believe the truly intelligent people realize that, of course that means it'll never apply to the main stream, but the main stream is busy with Facebook and Hannah Montanna. As for language holding back peoples careers, there's two things you have to keep in mind. One, this is the internet, the most "free" place there is. People have been saying whatever the hell they want for a long time now, I'm not saying that means that people have to hire people who do that but Destiny BM's a lot less than people say he does and he doesn't say the racist things with a hateful intent behind them, at least not with their original meaning. Secondly and here's the important one, there are plenty of careers, especially in the competitive "sports" (Whether you view this as a type of sport or not isn't relevant because my intent is obvious) where language is either accepted or ignored. I'll give you a few examples, I live in LA and (used to) watch the Lakers frequently, there are many times in their broadcasts where for some reason or another the mics on the court pic up uncensored cursing including from players such as Kobe Bryant, including saying the "N" word and slurs towards gay people. I've also watched football, the Denver Broncos and seen some of my favorite players (When they were less awful) do the EXACT same thing. And just to reiterate once more, Destiny isn't as bad as half the people who stream that I've watched and isn't 10% as bad as some of the haters make him out. Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 02:28 Zlasher wrote:On August 23 2011 02:11 Telcontar wrote:On August 23 2011 01:54 Dayrlan wrote:On August 23 2011 01:48 Zlasher wrote:On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote:
I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion? Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5 Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up. Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late. It's really not too late to nuke the thread if so. I've had PM conversations in a similar vein where the person has asked for the discussion to be kept confidential, and I respected that. If Alex wanted it kept private, I'm sure he would have said as much in so many words, yes? Not everyone can stay on top of reminding every single person they talk to, to keep their private consersations just that. If a question was asked, and answered through a private medium, it is proper etiquette to ask permission before releasing the contents. Then again, you wanted to argue against his conclusions, so I can understand why you didn't ask. Yeah I agree, its not his job to tell everyone he replies to, if a question is asked in private and answered in private that is how it should stay... If you are going to answer a question in a way that you want kept private, say so. Otherwise it's as good as public. Granted, it'd be much more courteous if the person asking the question also asked for permission to post about said question either in the question or in a subsequent PM but that doesn't change anything.
You guys know what the P in PM stands for, right?
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On August 23 2011 02:41 ReTr0[p.S] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 02:21 HereticSaint wrote:On August 23 2011 02:20 ReTr0[p.S] wrote:
He is a comedic entertainer, more or less like a clown. People will be entertained, but no one will ever take him seriously. He doesn't need to be taken seriously when he beats you, or others who hate on him including players who continue to profess to being much better players than him. Just saying. I like your argument, reminds me of when I was 11.
As opposed to calling someone you only know over the internet a clown. That's a brilliant one. *facepalm*
On August 23 2011 02:28 zarepath wrote:
You know what the P stands for in PM, right?
You know what the it doesn't matter stands for in it doesn't matter, right?
If you are going to respond to someone you don't know who you aren't sure will keep something private you should either ask that it be kept private or ask what they are going to do with said information first. That or just don't respond at all. Doing anything other than that and then being at all angry when information is released is the fault of you. That doesn't mean the guy releasing the information is a good person, but that doesn't change anything.
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EPT
