EPTSome days ago I private messaged EGalex who was kind enough to respond to my question of in essence: on a scale of 1-10 how would you rank Destiny as a player.**
**I'd like to take this moment to thank EGalex for responding promptly and honestly regarding his personal thoughts on the player formerly known as ROOT_Destiny. It is imperative to note that he was not asked in to respond in any official capacity as a member of EG just asked for his thoughts. Keep this in mind while posting. Thanks guys :D
To this question EGalex responded:
Overall, I'd rank him at about a 4.
We take a variety of factors into account when recruiting, including:
1) Major LAN/Online Tournament Results
2) Work Ethic/Natural Talent/Potential for Improvement
3) Marketability/Personality
4) Established Fan Base
I think that Destiny is quite strong in category 4, and probably slightly above average in category 2. In categories 1 and 3, I'd give him very low ratings.
I agree that his style is innovative, and he should be applauded for developing such a huge fan base and streaming following. However, he currently has no impressive results to speak of in my eyes, really (practice games, show matches, and mid-tier tournaments just don't matter, unfortunately). Also, his image and personality really hold him back from becoming more of a mainstream star.
I think that if he can post an impressive result at a large tournament, it'll turn some heads.
Of note, my original PM to EGalex also included a clause about whether or not Destiny would be a good pick up for Evil Geniuses, hence the seemingly non-sequitor answer.
So I think that it is a fair assessment that Destiny has not gotten wildly impressive large tournament results (MLG, etc.) but I was wondering if people agreed that the GSPA is a mid-tier tournament, or if the wins over ST_Bomber and ST_Ace were not indicative of ability. So basically as I see it—in recent weeks—Destiny has these successes (if you have more please respond and they will be added to the OP):
2-0 Victory over ST_Bomber one of the top Terran players in the world.
Memorable point: this series included an almost hour long massive macro game on shakuras plateau.
2-0 Victory over ST_Ace, a high level korean protoss.
Memorable point: this series included a hidden spire muta build, demonstrating a different style from a player frequently thought of as ‘one dimentional’ for his infestor play.
Addition: Destiny Beat NEXpuzzle 4-1 (thank you to pikachu856 for reminding me)
3-2 Victory over FnaticMSI.Rain.
Memorable point: Was a showmatch for $100 dollars, part of the ‘Destiny v. Korea’ series on stim.tv
4-3 Victory over EG.Incontrol
Memorable point: Infestor play dominated the series, only one game (on shakuras plateau) included significant muta play. This potentially playes into the idea of a ‘one dimensional’ style from Destiny? Also of note, Incontrol was criticized by some for his cannon rush on shakuras leading to a cancelled natural, and his huge blink stalker all-in (as defined by the lack of an expansion behind the attack) on metalopolis.
He is also ranked in Grandmaster League in North America as well as Upper Master League in Korea.
Comparably important Destiny has had these failures: (again if you have more please post and I will add to the OP)
2-0 Loss to mid-to-upper-tier Sixjax_Vibe in the GSPA
2-3 Loss to EG.HuK (Then Liquid’HuK) <--tear much?
Memorable Point: As reported by EG.Incontrol on State of The Game Destiny won the macro oriented games of the series whilst HuK took the shorter games.
A less than optimal (frankly poor) showing at MLG anaheim, knocking out notables such as TT1, but falling mid way through the losers bracket to a non-aligned open bracket player.
EG.Incontrol has noted that he believes, and he is not alone, that the Infestor is a 'broken' or 'imbalanced' unit that allows Destiny to beat someone who is "4-5 times better" than him (EG.HuK). I am only using this specific player as an example as he is one of the most outspoken members of the SC2 community
0-3 loss to Grubby in $100 dollar showmatch
Destiny has had a plethora of successes and failures before these, and I’m sure he will have plenty of both after these, but let us restrict our discussion to the present time.
Taking all of the above, and your own knowledge into account my questions are as follows:
Poll: 1. On a scale of 1-10 where would you rank Destiny’s skill.
7 (521)
23%
6 (517)
22%
5 (364)
16%
8 (240)
10%
1 (217)
9%
4 (191)
8%
3 (111)
5%
10 (84)
4%
2 (34)
1%
9 (30)
1%
2309 total votes
6 (517)
5 (364)
8 (240)
1 (217)
4 (191)
3 (111)
10 (84)
2 (34)
9 (30)
2309 total votes
Your vote: 1. On a scale of 1-10 where would you rank Destiny’s skill.
(Vote): 1
(Vote): 2
(Vote): 3
(Vote): 4
(Vote): 5
(Vote): 6
(Vote): 7
(Vote): 8
(Vote): 9
(Vote): 10
Poll: Do you think Destiny deserves to be put on known sc2 team?
Yes (1212)
60%
No (798)
40%
2010 total votes
No (798)
2010 total votes
Your vote: Do you think Destiny deserves to be put on known sc2 team?
Poll: For whom would you like to see Destiny play?
Sixjax (344)
26%
RGN/Reign (338)
25%
Evil Geniuses (EG) (216)
16%
Liquid'TLAF (116)
9%
SlayerS (94)
7%
Complexity (86)
6%
FXO (62)
5%
Incredible Miracles (IM) (33)
2%
Mouz (26)
2%
Startales (ST) (16)
1%
1331 total votes
RGN/Reign (338)
Evil Geniuses (EG) (216)
Liquid'TLAF (116)
SlayerS (94)
Complexity (86)
FXO (62)
Incredible Miracles (IM) (33)
Mouz (26)
Startales (ST) (16)
1331 total votes
Your vote: For whom would you like to see Destiny play?
(Vote): Liquid'TLAF
(Vote): Evil Geniuses (EG)
(Vote): RGN/Reign
(Vote): FXO
(Vote): Complexity
(Vote): SlayerS
(Vote): Incredible Miracles (IM)
(Vote): Startales (ST)
(Vote): Sixjax
(Vote): Mouz
My personal opinion:
+ Show Spoiler +
I think that many teams should take a hard look at Destiny. I think that occasionally what draws people to his stream is his rivalries with CombatEX (although granted really not much of a rivalry anymore, Destiny has been winning much higher percentages against this player), which inevitably include BM and inappropriate beliefs/language. While I have not personally been offended at all, I can see how others may be. Beating ST_Ace was good, I think it showed Destiny's ZvP strengths. Beating ST_Bomber in huge long games after incurring massive damage in the early game and despite intense continued drops by bomber is impressive. It showed huge ZvT potential if nothing else. Bomber beat MVP for Code A champion, has beaten MC in his time in code S, reached ro8 in code S by beating Polt the GSL Super Tournament winner, etc.). I think it is fair though to say that a few wins are not as significant as continued victories. To this end though I sense a bit of hypocrisy from some members of SOTG and SC2 community members. Sixjax_Artosis won 1 series out of 10 in the NASL, over the WC3 beast Grubby granted, but 10% victory in a major tournament is not very good...EG.Incontrol rocked out in MLG Dallas forever ago losing only to kiwikaki in the 3/4th place match. He was seeded 4th at MLG Columbus however and he only came 22nd. He has also lost to Destiny in a very recent showmatch series. Liquid_Tyler has not exactly raced through any tournaments nor has JP recently. I hate to single out this one program but it does receive roughly 10k viewers every stream and does not exactly profess a liking of Destiny, although they have to be fair openly noted that they are not purposefully or maliciously saying negative things about Destiny. I think that Destiny has shown enormous potential and I think image issues regarding language filters could be mitigated if he was spoken to by any team in question. I think that FXO, Sixjax, Vile, or Vvv, if they could get over their differences would be good fits for Destiny, and in the future I would like to see him progress to the winningest teams such as Liquid, Mouz, EG, or a Korean team. His innovation I think has been huge, he has played an integral role in redefining the ZvP matchup as a whole and the Z's role in harassing in ZvX with his 4-Infestor drops. Even personally I have seen Liquid Ret do a two-base +1 +1 ling several infestor timing attack against a toss on ladder during his streaming craze recently. All I'm saying is that he is better than a lot of players that are on big teams presently. As to the BM, I think that while it is more extreme from Destiny, HuK was very BM before Liquid's acquisition and still is prone to the "Sup Son" and "cool story bro" to opponents when they make errors on the Korean Ladder.
Any other comments regarding the value of the player formerly known as ROOT_Destiny to Starcraft, as a player, professional or amateur, as well as solely a community member, are welcome. There has been much controversy over this player since the beta so let's tell him, the community, and the other players/coaches what we think on the subject!
Please be informed and polite however, use supporting evidence, do not make baseless assertions or I will have to just hope you get banned or warned
Addition (Read me)
+ Show Spoiler +
Howdy, after a little while it's clear that there is a little big of degeneration into specifically whether Destiny belongs on EG. This is not the case. Please do not bash the players on any teams, EG or otherwise. Each team decides who to put on their team by their own metric, and thus each player (contingent upon themselves and the owner's opinions only) belong on the teams on which they are. The thread was meant to discuss whether or not you believe if
1. Destiny belongs on a team or not.
2. If so, which team, and why?
3. Destiny's overall skill.
4. Destiny's place in sc2.
Of course I am not presuming to tell Destiny what he should or should not do, neither should any of you be so bold .Just take it as it was meant to be - some afternoon discourse, chew it over, comment if you want, and be more civil.
Obliged.
