In essence, as one might deduce from the title, this thread is regarding the player formerly known as ROOT_Destiny.
Some days ago I private messaged EGalex who was kind enough to respond to my question of in essence: on a scale of 1-10 how would you rank Destiny as a player.**
**I'd like to take this moment to thank EGalex for responding promptly and honestly regarding his personal thoughts on the player formerly known as ROOT_Destiny. It is imperative to note that he was not asked in to respond in any official capacity as a member of EG just asked for his thoughts. Keep this in mind while posting. Thanks guys :D
To this question EGalex responded:
Overall, I'd rank him at about a 4.
We take a variety of factors into account when recruiting, including:
1) Major LAN/Online Tournament Results 2) Work Ethic/Natural Talent/Potential for Improvement 3) Marketability/Personality 4) Established Fan Base
I think that Destiny is quite strong in category 4, and probably slightly above average in category 2. In categories 1 and 3, I'd give him very low ratings.
I agree that his style is innovative, and he should be applauded for developing such a huge fan base and streaming following. However, he currently has no impressive results to speak of in my eyes, really (practice games, show matches, and mid-tier tournaments just don't matter, unfortunately). Also, his image and personality really hold him back from becoming more of a mainstream star.
I think that if he can post an impressive result at a large tournament, it'll turn some heads.
Of note, my original PM to EGalex also included a clause about whether or not Destiny would be a good pick up for Evil Geniuses, hence the seemingly non-sequitor answer.
So I think that it is a fair assessment that Destiny has not gotten wildly impressive large tournament results (MLG, etc.) but I was wondering if people agreed that the GSPA is a mid-tier tournament, or if the wins over ST_Bomber and ST_Ace were not indicative of ability. So basically as I see it—in recent weeks—Destiny has these successes (if you have more please respond and they will be added to the OP):
2-0 Victory over ST_Bomber one of the top Terran players in the world. Memorable point: this series included an almost hour long massive macro game on shakuras plateau.
2-0 Victory over ST_Ace, a high level korean protoss. Memorable point: this series included a hidden spire muta build, demonstrating a different style from a player frequently thought of as ‘one dimentional’ for his infestor play.
Addition: Destiny Beat NEXpuzzle 4-1 (thank you to pikachu856 for reminding me)
3-2 Victory over FnaticMSI.Rain. Memorable point: Was a showmatch for $100 dollars, part of the ‘Destiny v. Korea’ series on stim.tv
4-3 Victory over EG.Incontrol Memorable point: Infestor play dominated the series, only one game (on shakuras plateau) included significant muta play. This potentially playes into the idea of a ‘one dimensional’ style from Destiny? Also of note, Incontrol was criticized by some for his cannon rush on shakuras leading to a cancelled natural, and his huge blink stalker all-in (as defined by the lack of an expansion behind the attack) on metalopolis.
He is also ranked in Grandmaster League in North America as well as Upper Master League in Korea.
Comparably important Destiny has had these failures: (again if you have more please post and I will add to the OP)
2-0 Loss to mid-to-upper-tier Sixjax_Vibe in the GSPA
2-3 Loss to EG.HuK (Then Liquid’HuK) <--tear much?
Memorable Point: As reported by EG.Incontrol on State of The Game Destiny won the macro oriented games of the series whilst HuK took the shorter games.
A less than optimal (frankly poor) showing at MLG anaheim, knocking out notables such as TT1, but falling mid way through the losers bracket to a non-aligned open bracket player.
EG.Incontrol has noted that he believes, and he is not alone, that the Infestor is a 'broken' or 'imbalanced' unit that allows Destiny to beat someone who is "4-5 times better" than him (EG.HuK). I am only using this specific player as an example as he is one of the most outspoken members of the SC2 community
0-3 loss to Grubby in $100 dollar showmatch
Destiny has had a plethora of successes and failures before these, and I’m sure he will have plenty of both after these, but let us restrict our discussion to the present time. Taking all of the above, and your own knowledge into account my questions are as follows:
Poll: 1. On a scale of 1-10 where would you rank Destiny’s skill.
7 (521)
23%
6 (517)
22%
5 (364)
16%
8 (240)
10%
1 (217)
9%
4 (191)
8%
3 (111)
5%
10 (84)
4%
2 (34)
1%
9 (30)
1%
2309 total votes
Your vote: 1. On a scale of 1-10 where would you rank Destiny’s skill.
I think that many teams should take a hard look at Destiny. I think that occasionally what draws people to his stream is his rivalries with CombatEX (although granted really not much of a rivalry anymore, Destiny has been winning much higher percentages against this player), which inevitably include BM and inappropriate beliefs/language. While I have not personally been offended at all, I can see how others may be. Beating ST_Ace was good, I think it showed Destiny's ZvP strengths. Beating ST_Bomber in huge long games after incurring massive damage in the early game and despite intense continued drops by bomber is impressive. It showed huge ZvT potential if nothing else. Bomber beat MVP for Code A champion, has beaten MC in his time in code S, reached ro8 in code S by beating Polt the GSL Super Tournament winner, etc.). I think it is fair though to say that a few wins are not as significant as continued victories. To this end though I sense a bit of hypocrisy from some members of SOTG and SC2 community members. Sixjax_Artosis won 1 series out of 10 in the NASL, over the WC3 beast Grubby granted, but 10% victory in a major tournament is not very good...EG.Incontrol rocked out in MLG Dallas forever ago losing only to kiwikaki in the 3/4th place match. He was seeded 4th at MLG Columbus however and he only came 22nd. He has also lost to Destiny in a very recent showmatch series. Liquid_Tyler has not exactly raced through any tournaments nor has JP recently. I hate to single out this one program but it does receive roughly 10k viewers every stream and does not exactly profess a liking of Destiny, although they have to be fair openly noted that they are not purposefully or maliciously saying negative things about Destiny. I think that Destiny has shown enormous potential and I think image issues regarding language filters could be mitigated if he was spoken to by any team in question. I think that FXO, Sixjax, Vile, or Vvv, if they could get over their differences would be good fits for Destiny, and in the future I would like to see him progress to the winningest teams such as Liquid, Mouz, EG, or a Korean team. His innovation I think has been huge, he has played an integral role in redefining the ZvP matchup as a whole and the Z's role in harassing in ZvX with his 4-Infestor drops. Even personally I have seen Liquid Ret do a two-base +1 +1 ling several infestor timing attack against a toss on ladder during his streaming craze recently. All I'm saying is that he is better than a lot of players that are on big teams presently. As to the BM, I think that while it is more extreme from Destiny, HuK was very BM before Liquid's acquisition and still is prone to the "Sup Son" and "cool story bro" to opponents when they make errors on the Korean Ladder.
Any other comments regarding the value of the player formerly known as ROOT_Destiny to Starcraft, as a player, professional or amateur, as well as solely a community member, are welcome. There has been much controversy over this player since the beta so let's tell him, the community, and the other players/coaches what we think on the subject!
Please be informed and polite however, use supporting evidence, do not make baseless assertions or I will have to just hope you get banned or warned
Howdy, after a little while it's clear that there is a little big of degeneration into specifically whether Destiny belongs on EG. This is not the case. Please do not bash the players on any teams, EG or otherwise. Each team decides who to put on their team by their own metric, and thus each player (contingent upon themselves and the owner's opinions only) belong on the teams on which they are. The thread was meant to discuss whether or not you believe if
1. Destiny belongs on a team or not. 2. If so, which team, and why? 3. Destiny's overall skill. 4. Destiny's place in sc2.
Of course I am not presuming to tell Destiny what he should or should not do, neither should any of you be so bold .Just take it as it was meant to be - some afternoon discourse, chew it over, comment if you want, and be more civil.
I like where your getting at but...... Destiny is not a team member. (Not in a mean way or anything)
Think of it this way, he is making way more bank just grinding away ladder streaming games, he's improving a ton as we can see by his results online but still needs to work on his turny results.
I would love to see him post that here, I think that it is easy to say that you don't want a team on reddit/stream if there are no offers, do you think that he would want to just sit around and moan to the 6k viewers "ohhhhhh i wish I had a team? woe is me?" I don't think so. That being said I could totally be wrong. He has mentioned wanting to go to Korea, and intensely enjoying his practice with korean players like GanzI/SlayerS members so maybe he doesn't want to be on a US/EU team?
EG.Incontrol has noted that he believes, and he is not alone, that the Infestor is a 'broken' or 'imbalanced' unit that allows Destiny to beat someone who is "4-5 times better" than him
Sounds like something InControl would say...
Aren't we already seeing players find decent counters to heavy Infestor use? I thought I've been seeing more and more chatter around Destiny really branching out from heavy Infestor play and mixing things up more. I'm sure this would only help him in the long run.
His personality though... a tad abrasive for some teams; but then again, that doesn't seem to stop people from taking a player if they're winning/popular (i.e. IdrA).
To be fair, other than Idra none of the "original" EG members have had any real tournament success to speak of, and if I may be so bold as to say so, it's extremely unlikely that any of them will.
In my opinion, people hate on Destiny so much because a) he's living a dream they secretly covet themselves and b) he has way more of a fan base than people feel he "should" based on his raw skill level. I personally think he's an entertaining lower top-tier player who deserves the viewership he's earned.
Destiny is a good player, he just relies too much on his patented infestor playstyle. Gets him ladder wins but in tourneys where he's facing palyers who know him and his style it gets countered so easily. If he tries to play without infestors for 2-3 weeks and develop a few other tricks then I think he could go pretty well.
Destiny is more value as entertainment than high quality play anyway. Seeing him infestor his way out of terrible situations is always a laugh, especially if he's skyping while he does it.
I would love to see him post that here, I think that it is easy to say that you don't want a team on reddit/stream if there are no offers, do you think that he would want to just sit around and moan to the 6k viewers "ohhhhhh i wish I had a team? woe is me?" I don't think so. That being said I could totally be wrong. He has mentioned wanting to go to Korea, and intensely enjoying his practice with korean players like GanzI/SlayerS members so maybe he doesn't want to be on a US/EU team?
Yea I left team stuff blank because he said he doesn't want to be on a team, so why put it up for discussion?
I think he's a good player all in all. Considering how much he steams, he's capable of a very strong work ethic, and that's something to applaud. He has a ton of fans and a ton of haters, both who exaggerate his abilities. Results should be what people are looking at, and if that's the case, it looks pretty obvious to me. He's not super amazing, but he's a strong player. He's KNOWN for his infestor play, so if he can beat players who have the opportunity to prepare for it, the way the gspa works, there's nothing gimmicky about it.
Also, Ingenol really took the words out my mouth. Couldn't agree more.
Destiny needs more experience, but is still viable for any organization due to his fan base. Not to mention, he is actively learning and grinding daily. To be honest, considering how much he is growing and how much attention he gets EG would be dumb not to consider him, especially when you compare him to some of EG's current lackluster players.
no i actually think that destiny is happy off of a team. i think he loves streaming and he is not the type of person who needs to be in a teamhouse setting to be motivated to improve. for example, i forget the exact reasons, but he left complexity. while he seemed okay with joining it, you didnt get the sense that he really wanted to be on a team. i think ROOT fit him really well, but i don't know if he'll find another team that suits him quite well. gl destiny!
Why are fans of destiny writing posts trying to prove that he should be on a team when he has said he doesn't want to be on a team. Everything else is a non-issue until that changes.
Why are fans of destiny writing posts trying to prove that he should be on a team when he has said he doesn't want to be on a team. Everything else is a non-issue until that changes.
He has said this on stream, that is fair. I am also what could be considered a fan of his, as I am of a multitude of other players, this is also fair. I would however just ask you to contemplate whether or not you believe he has the skill (in every facet of the word) to do it. Just as a hypothetical discussion disregarding his present inclination to be on a team or not.
I think Destiny is definitely a good player. (Who can argue a masters level on KR is bad?) I don't think he is a pro player in terms of results. Tournaments are ultimately what matter most to teams, not show matches or amazing results in ladder games vs top players. I do think he has improved a lot, and it trying to be a better player (KR server practice). I think with a lot of really hard work and some top level practice partners he could certainly get to the level of many players who currently belong to teams.
That said I don't feel like Destiny would really work with most teams. I think Destiny being on ROOT was an exception, because ROOT felt more like a family of players who had some eccentricities, and were good friends. The big teams are businesses. They ultimately are hoping to make money by posting results to bring attention to their sponsors who can then make more money to pay them more money. They are looking for players who bring in top tournament results, and who fit with their marketing image. I think most companies would have a hard time with sponsoring Destiny. It is no secret what he says on his stream can be controversial, and as this is a newer industry, I don't feel like many sponsors will be willing to take the risk of a negative reaction from people-- remember not just gamers, but maybe other demographics who encounter something from Destiny they find offensive and don't want to support a company that supports him.
I also see Destiny as a very self-assured person. He knows who he is, and is not going to change that to please others. He isn't at any point of desperation where he is going to squelch that so he can buy food or anything. Destiny seems happy on his own, making a living playing a game he loves, and unwilling to really compromise or change anything. I don't see any of the current big teams being a good fit for him or vice versa.
I see Destiny as a player with a lot of potential but with just some occasional sloppy play. He could be one of the best players in the world if he just keeps working at it. And he is.
I do think Destiny is way better than most people give him credit for. Destiny is an OK player that is willing to improve. He is better than most of the NA *pros* and has taken down countless Koreans, regardless on which server he's on. With a huge fanbase, more stream viewers everyday, the Destiny vs Korea showmatches ; I can only see Destiny becoming more successful as time passes on.
I also think Destiny doesn't need a team. He can cover his finances fine, and has alot of connections with pro players.
The thing is, Destiny can only get so good until he comes to a point where he requires several high leveled practice partners, IE a team. Eventually he -will- need a team. However for now, he is perfectly happy. I say let him continue to be so =3. When he absolutely wants to be the best he can be, he will openly admit to looking for a team.
dont think destiny is that good of a player to be honest. His style is very predictable. It will win him a lot of ladder games and show matches, but in large tournaments, people will rip his style up, since they would obviously practice for it. And tournament results counts. As for destiny, he had a good chance with complexity, if the deal had gone through. I think he will always be a good ladder player, not more than that (although i would love to chew these words up, if he goes to mlg raleigh and puts up a decent performance).
I'm not sure how I feel about this thread in general, but I'll give my 2 cents. I would completely agree with Alex's rating of a 4. Destiny has probably the largest fanbase of any streamer (maybe perhaps behind day9 and idra), and he does possess the ability to play all day non stop. But his practice is not as efficient as it could be. I think he should spend more time laddering on KR even with the lag, he should also practice with his old ROOT buddies, no idea why he doesn't do that.
He also needs a new ZvT build. The infestor opening he does is great if he can survive the early-midgame, but infestors lack the mobility to deal with timing attacks like muta/ling/bling can. If he just got efficient practice and set up 2-3 builds that worked well with him, I think he could start doing a lot better then he is now (he has gotten tremendously better, but he can still improve a lot). Also his mechanics slip sometimes, he takes bases too late/leaves drones idle too long/doesnt cancel hatches that are about to die/ and never seems to make a macro hatch even though zerglings are a main part of his build.
Anyways, I agree with alex that destiny has not gotten major tournament results, but I think in a few months he will.
Also, just wanted to add in that destiny definitely deserves to be on a SC2 team. He isn't good compared to top korean/european pros, but he is definitely up there for NA zergs and NA players in general. I don't think he should get big bucks (or any bucks for that matter), but I think he definitely shows more talent then a large majority of NA players.
Destiny is a BIG BOY, He is perfectly capable of selling himself to teams
when teams deem him worthy he will be recruited, they dont want to see fanboy post about how people think he should be on a team just because he won some show-matches, if anything your just reinforcing what EGAlex said about destiny already have a strong fan base which has already been acknowledged.
Sure he has some innovative play that involves a questionable unit in the game, and has taken down SOME big name players in a series. But consistency is probably one of the most important things to look for in a player, and Destiny is Inconsistent, he will beat Puzzle convincingly in a series and then proceed to get 2-0'd by VileState (Not a bad player but certainly no Code A champion) at MLG.
Destiny even said himself that latency played a factor in his games against Bomber. And the same can be said when Destiny plays on the Korean server.
I believe Destiny's heavy reliance on Infestors might be impeding his progress. He definitely has the work ethic to be one of the best foreigners but his stubbornness might stop him from achieving his potential.
Another thing to note is that iNcontroL isn't exactly all manner-town all the time. In SoTG and ITG he doesn't filter his language, he doesn't pull punches-- in essence, he speaks his mind. Destiny speaks his mind as well, so why are people giving him flak for it?
EG.Incontrol has noted that he believes, and he is not alone, that the Big Mac is a 'rip-off' or 'overpriced' foodstuff that allows McDonalds to overcharge someone who is "4-5 times the size" of an average person (EG.HuK) for too little food. I am only using this specific player as an example as he is one of the most outspoken members of the obese community
I'm absolutely positive Destiny has gotten offers from several tier 2 teams (Aside from CoL.) and possibly even a premier team. He clearly has potential to be very good and draws eyes to everything he does. When he's ready, I'm sure he'll take the plunge and get serious about being a real, result-driven pro player.
To say that infestors are so OP that its the singular reason he wins any games against top pro players (As InControl seemed to be implying) is very questionable.
On August 22 2011 14:02 mbr2321 wrote: Another thing to note is that iNcontroL isn't exactly all manner-town all the time. In SoTG and ITG he doesn't filter his language, he doesn't pull punches-- in essence, he speaks his mind. Destiny speaks his mind as well, so why are people giving him flak for it?
He's been around much longer and was a very successful SC1 player so he can "get away with it" riding his past success even though he has little to no accomplishments in SC2.
A lot of people just see Destiny as an incredibly arrogant/ignorant person who, while a top 200 player, is way overhyped. Until he posts the tournament wins, he will continued to be viewed this way by a fairly good chunk of the community.
I have to say that when I first heard about destiny and watched several pro players play against him about 7-8 months ago, I though he was a just a good master level player, who really couldn't stand up to the pros, but had an entertaining stream making him popular. When he first entered decided to shift his focus completely to sc2, around the time he joined ROOT and his stream was doing so well, not a lot of people gave him a chance, rightfully so at that time.
However, I think in that sense, Destiny has suprised us all, his perseverance has been amazing. Without any competitive RTS experience (correct me if I'm wrong), making it as far as he had is an amazing feat. Nonetheless I think Destiny has reached a standpoint in his career. Perseverance will only take you so far, and while he might have pro players as friends to practice with, it makes a tremendous difference to be in a team with a more efficient and more systematic form of practice.
I think its now time for Destiny to really choose where he is headed. As his inclination is to avoid the business model of most current SC2 teams, and focus on his personal practice and stream, thats fine. That said, I don't he can get THAT much further on his own in terms of skill level. Hard work can only get you so far.
Overall I would rate Destiny as a 6, I agree with most of Alex Garfields points, but I would give him 1 more point simply because his work ethic is really amazing, and something that amazes me always. Secondly, I think while most teams might not like how he fits in to their team image as a whole due to his attitude online, I think if he were to join a team, his approach to SC2 as a game he loves as opposed to the business model of 'ESPORTS' has a lot of marketability....
Also his approach to the game is more conducive to actually thinking and reacting. As to whether his style is stale with infestors, I think that really is a players personal preference. We all know just about 3-4 months ago Idra completely preferred the ling bling muta style. While he does switch it up a whole lot more nowadays, if infestors work for Destiny, then why not?
I think a lot of Destiny's inconsistency comes from the fragility of his playstyle... infestor/ling requires PERFECT micro, if you slip up just a tiny bit it's over. That being said, I don't see him as progamer quality right now - but that's one of the reasons a team should pick him up, because he has a lot of potential in him.
I strongly disagree that his personality/marketablilty is low. His large fan base signifies he's most definitely marketable. His personality is only rated low if you don't like the fact he speaks his mind and refuses to suck up and act ultra PC just to avoid controversy (he's an individual and will defend the beliefs he has, agree or disagree with them, he has a strong personality).
To me, Destiny is just like (maybe a tiny bit better) than the regular NA grandmaster.
Sure, he beat Puzzle and he beat Bomber, but that doesn't mean a whole lot at all when he then loses convincingly to people the previous two would completely steamroll. He is good, but he is inconsistent, which shows through his lack of any major tournament success. People on either side like to say "Oh he beat bomber he is soooooo good" or "oh he loses to deezer he is sooooooooooo bad", but to me he is just your average player. He just gets all of this attention/controversy due to his stream and fanbase. He has the TLPD record I would expect from any regular run of the mill NA masters player (full of both people I know and people who I only see on occasion on a streaming players ladder who probably don't even deserve a TLPD entry to be honest [sorry to be harsh]).
I mean just recently he has taken out players that I hold to at the very least a decent player, like TT1 Rain Bomber CatZ Puzzle
only to lose to players like (don't get me wrong these players are also probably good, some equal to or better than the ones on the list above maybe):
Axslav Edge giX State KawaiiRice
So say what you will but the results speak for themselves, and along with his tournament results (or lake thereof) they say he is inconsistent.
That being said, I do hope he can find a team he likes and improve more than he already has. Though I'll admit I despise a large part of his fanbase, I find him to be pretty funny and have pretty cool games. (Though I also think he is capable of taking things a little to far with his personality )
On August 22 2011 14:05 CanucksJC wrote: Destiny is low in marketability / personality? He's one-of-a-kind in that regard imo...
that is in terms of professionalism, you wouldnt want (as a company) to be sponsoring a guy yelling whatever he does all day. Thats where the low points come from basically youre thinking, wait people know him a lotta people know him! but on a professional company level you dont want that "image"
and to me I believe your biggest arguments are games that have been played on ladder/show match, whereas people are waiting for him to play at lan tournaments and big events to show results under pressure. until then at least
I'm sorry but I don't really understand the point of this, or rather... what you're asking. The point system seems absolutely arbitrary since there's nothing to compare it to, I could give Destiny an 8 and it would be no different from a 4 if you don't know what I'd give other players.
I'd say he's probably one of the better Zergs in North America, likely in the top 8 for his race in the region(though admittedly that's not saying much). Do I think he's some big shit, not at all... I'm actually not even a fan of his play but he is a decent player.
As for whether he should be on a team, it's just something that doesn't really need to be answered right now. I don't think he needs to be on a team if he can support himself with streaming and find partners to practice with. To my knowledge, he has no problem with either of those things. Should Destiny be on a team? I mean, sure... he's good enough for it. Does he need to be on a team? Not really...
I think that's very hypocritical of EG, considering that before they signed Huk and Puma, they were more or less "Idra and company." Axslav, Machine, Lzgamer, and Demuslim, though all great players, would score just as low as Destiny in these categories, except without the large fan bases.
1. Major LAN/Tournament results are a problem for Destiny, but very few players on EG's roster have put out good results in the recent months. Axslav got 4th in IPL, Machine has a lot of 15-20 MLG finishes(not saying much since pool play puts you at 20th automatically), LZgamer hasn't been good since Reapers got nerfed(he plays zerg now?), and Demuslim hasn't even been playing due to a broken hand.
Saying Destiny doesn't have decent results is true, but his showmatches show remarkable talent, and i'm sure more people have heard about him defeating Bomber than about Demuslim winning a qualifier for IEM.
2. Potential for improvement is something that is SEVERELY lacking in EG's current roster. Their players have not noticeably grown in skill since the game has been released(they have deteriorated if anything). Destiny on the other hand was a high diamond player a year ago and is now one of the top zergs in NA.
3+4. Marketable? This category is very idiotic in my opinion. There are maybe a handful of players that can be considered marketable, as this comes from either personality or major tournament winnings. Also, having a large fanbase goes hand in hand in marketability, and saying Destiny is any more BM than Idra is simply a lie, as he shows plenty of respect to players in tournaments.
On August 22 2011 14:05 CanucksJC wrote: Destiny is low in marketability / personality? He's one-of-a-kind in that regard imo...
You don't even need to market him.
o.O
Earlier today he had 7k people watching him watching Ret's stream as he tried to adopt his style. Ret Meanwhile only had 2k viewers.
Watching Ret's stream while streaming himself with commercials is actually illegal <3 just letting u know <3
It isn't illegal. He didn't show any commircials, and the stream was mostly minimized. He also did commentate overtop; technically it is his own work. It is like those Hitler parodies based off the movie "Downfall," everything in the video is copyrighted, but you can add subtitles and not have it not considered illegal so long as they don't take credit for the stuff they aren't doing.
Not to mention liquid players don't do commircials anyway, their TLAF logo is doing ads for em anyway.
This isnt a shot at alex but did you get permission to post his pm for the public to see?. the last thing this scene needs is yet another misunderstanding that causes butthurt to fans of players.
As for destiny i think hes probably a 6. Need to remember that hes not at a time in his life where he can drop everything and move to a team house in arizona or korea to practice sc2. He has a huge fanbase but he also isnt very marketable because of his personality. Can you imagine if he was sponsored by gunnar eyewear?
That said it is not like there are many 8's and aboves at the moment. Ideally you want somebody that interacts with the community like incontrol but produces results like huk. A jinro tearing through code s would be a 9 or 10. goodmanner, respected by the community and crushing face.
Before I vote on his skill level give me some relativity I assume Nestea is a 10 but is MKP. Is MKP an 8 or 9? Also who is a one? A masters player or a bottom level pro?
EDIT also I don't believe he belongs on a team because the vast majority of his games he wins by spamming infestors. I agree with WHite-ra and Incontrol that the infestor is too good versus protoss.
destiny is lacking a MAJOR TOURNAMENT WIN, beating someone better than you in one round of a tournament =/= being better than that player. Winning/placing highly in major tournaments is what counts and destiny hasn't been able to do that.
On August 22 2011 14:38 Nothingtosay wrote: Before I vote on his skill level give me some relativity I assume Nestea is a 10 but is MKP. Is MKP an 8 or 9? Also who is a one? A masters player or a bottom level pro?
EDIT also I don't believe he belongs on a team because the vast majority of his games he wins by spamming infestors. I agree with WHite-ra and Incontrol that the infestor is too good versus protoss.
You clearly haven't watched his stream. Saying Destiny wins his games by spamming infestors is like saying Protosses win PvZ lategame by spamming high templar, or Terran just beats P by spamming ghosts, so imba. There is a lot more to his play than just spamming one unit.
On August 22 2011 14:19 Firekidt wrote: I think that's very hypocritical of EG, considering that before they signed Huk and Puma, they were more or less "Idra and company." Axslav, Machine, Lzgamer, and Demuslim, though all great players, would score just as low as Destiny in these categories, except without the large fan bases.
1. Major LAN/Tournament results are a problem for Destiny, but very few players on EG's roster have put out good results in the recent months. Axslav got 4th in IPL, Machine has a lot of 15-20 MLG finishes(not saying much since pool play puts you at 20th automatically), LZgamer hasn't been good since Reapers got nerfed(he plays zerg now?), and Demuslim hasn't even been playing due to a broken hand.
Saying Destiny doesn't have decent results is true, but his showmatches show remarkable talent, and i'm sure more people have heard about him defeating Bomber than about Demuslim winning a qualifier for IEM.
2. Potential for improvement is something that is SEVERELY lacking in EG's current roster. Their players have not noticeably grown in skill since the game has been released(they have deteriorated if anything). Destiny on the other hand was a high diamond player a year ago and is now one of the top zergs in NA.
3+4. Marketable? This category is very idiotic in my opinion. There are maybe a handful of players that can be considered marketable, as this comes from either personality or major tournament winnings. Also, having a large fanbase goes hand in hand in marketability, and saying Destiny is any more BM than Idra is simply a lie, as he shows plenty of respect to players in tournaments.
why do you get mad at EG when the OPer fishes for a response he knows EG will give him? EG doesn't want him on there team (because in their opinion he is not valuable to their team) it their choice, it's not up to destiny fan's to make EG to sign him.
just because you find someone to be valuable doesn't mean they feel the same. and it goes both ways. just because you think half of EG is garbage doesn't mean they do.
also destiny fans need to realize destiny could be on a team at the drop of a hat if he truly wanted to be.
Personally until a month ago, I didn't know who destiny was. Threads like this have started popping up on TL since then, and he's been mentioned in the chat room of every major tournament once someone brings up infestor play.
Since then, I've been able to figure out that he's a completely average player who mouths off enough to keep people watching his stream. Sure, he's entertaining - but he's more a story, or a television show than a top SC2 pro. It seems he's entirely over rated to me. There are certainly a hundred more players in NA just as talented as he is, and many times that over in Korea, so that he can get threads started about himself as a player seems unwarranted. As a personality, sure it's great that people can get excited about him. Maybe he brings in some people to the scene that wouldn't otherwise have been involved. Maybe he makes regular stream watchers out of people that would only watch a game here or there. That's good, and he's good for the scene... But people definitely over react to him.
Listen guys, first of all i think its kind of mean to openly judge a player without consulting him. We dont know everything do we???
Secondly, my personal opinion, is that Destiny is EXTREMLY underrated!!! These are my reasons: 1)He has beaten famous players. 2)He was on a profesional team already so has some team experiance (ROOT). 3) He has no real practice partners.. or regiment to speak of. (and hes that good)
He basically trains by laddering... which is fine.. but not at the pro levels. Imagine, if you will, how great Destiny would be if he was put on a good team, went to a training house, or went to Korea. I guarantee in a couple month Destiny would be owning shit. All of Destiny's skill is self developed. Hes very talanted and CREATIVE. Which is necessary. Like look at Idra, very strong player, great macro skills.... zero fuckin creativity. (in b4 idra fanboys rage) Destiny has so much fucking potential. Destiny is like....Goku. Goku was shit in DBZ, but after training in hyperbolic chamber, he went super sayen and owned everyone. A team would be Destiny's Hyperbolic Chamber ( or whatever that thing called which lets you train for a year but its only a day)
Serously now,
Destiny has amazing talent, creativity... and PASSION. Which is hard to find. If a team was only smart enough to pick him up, and give him the training conditions, Destiny will be a contendor at major tournaments.
Just my honest opinion on this. Btw dont rage about idra part, hes also one of my fav players too.
I think the fact that when people say things like "he did a hidden spire build" or "he did a ling/bling/muta play" to try and justify destiny as being a player with many styles (as opposed to just an infestor player) is sort of self defeating. While he does use other strategies that aren't infestor centric, you could draw a comparison between things like goody playing bio every once in a while, or FlaSh playing a cheese strat. The players are both considered a mech player and a macro player, respectively. Destiny is an infestor player.
That being said, I still think Desiny has improved a lot in the past months and his series over the players like Bomber and Ace are pretty awesome, he definitely has the capability, he just lacks the consistency. His showmatch vs InControl is pretty indicative of this. That is a match where he should have dropped 1 map at most.
As far as rating him on a scale of 1-10, I would give him a 5. His potential is there, but he is just performing on ladder mostly, and not in tournaments. People attribute this to his style being public knowledge, but that doesn't stop goody from winning a lot of tournaments and weekly cups. He just needs to refine his strategies where he can still use them in large tournaments and still be competitive despite being metagamed.
On August 22 2011 14:54 Polskaa wrote: No offence Strifeco Machine Axlav
have no point to be on EG Destiny outstages them by a longshot especially Strifeco
I fail to see what the adds or how it even adheres to the OP.
Unless your reading into a seemingly private conversation the OP has posted.
That being said I think everybody is reading into this a bit much, and like EGAlex said ,if he posted a good tournament result it would turn some heads.
On August 22 2011 14:54 Polskaa wrote: No offence Strifeco Machine Axlav
have no point to be on EG Destiny outstages them by a longshot especially Strifeco
agreed!!!! but they have a team and have the training environment. Imagine destiny on ...not eg cuz idra and him would never agree, but like RGN, or SlayerS where he has people to train with and let his skill grow.
On August 22 2011 14:54 Polskaa wrote: No offence Strifeco Machine Axlav
have no point to be on EG Destiny outstages them by a longshot especially Strifeco
I fail to see what the adds or how it even adheres to the OP.
Unless your reading into a seemingly private conversation the OP has posted.
That being said I think everybody is reading into this a bit much, and like EGAlex said ,if he posted a good tournament result it would turn some heads.
ya but what hes saying is those player have not had a good tournament results in along time and they have a team... kinda hippocritic if oyu ask me.
On August 22 2011 14:54 Polskaa wrote: No offence Strifeco Machine Axlav
have no point to be on EG Destiny outstages them by a longshot especially Strifeco
Not that I agree with the entirety of above said statement, but I do think destiny definitely outstages them.
He's not a bad player by any means.. yeah he could improve to actually get tournament results, but who can't (maybe besides Nestea).
It's either bandwagon hate or bandwagon love with this guy, hard for people to actually have an unbiased view.
All this infestor spam BS people are ranting about is getting annoying... What the hell do you want him to make? Roach hydra? so he can get FF'd to death and melted by colossi?
On August 22 2011 14:13 synapse wrote: I think a lot of Destiny's inconsistency comes from the fragility of his playstyle... infestor/ling requires PERFECT micro, if you slip up just a tiny bit it's over. That being said, I don't see him as progamer quality right now - but that's one of the reasons a team should pick him up, because he has a lot of potential in him.
I completely agree with this...
And seriously, all this talk of being "not fit for a team" because of personality is retarded..Do you want to say the same for Idra too?
Semi-fan here. I have doubts that Destiny will ever become top-tier, but I'd say he's better than some on EG and many in complexity. If not for Destiny's penchant for saying whatever he wants, damn whatever company would sponsor him wants, Destiny would be picked up instantly by most teams if he actually wanted to join a team.
As for whether he deserves all this attention, I do wish the community would start branching out from Destiny to other streamers. Right now, the only popular streams (consistently >1k viewers) are Destiny, Catz, idra, inControl, Liquid players, Koreans, White-ra, and Sen. Then there's the maybe 20 "middle tier" streams varying from 100 to 1000 viewers, and then the rest of the 100+ streamers are struggling to get any viewers at all.
On August 22 2011 15:10 lbmaian wrote: Semi-fan here. I have doubts that Destiny will ever become top-tier, but I'd say he's better than some on EG and many in complexity. If not for Destiny's penchant for saying whatever he wants, damn whatever company would sponsor him wants, Destiny would be picked up instantly by most teams if he actually wanted to join a team.
As for whether he deserves all this attention, I do wish the community would start branching out from Destiny to other streamers. Right now, the only popular streams (consistently >1k viewers) are Destiny, Catz, idra, inControl, Liquid players, Koreans, White-ra, and Sen. Then there's the maybe 20 "middle tier" streams varying from 100 to 1000 viewers, and then the rest of the 100+ streamers are struggling to get any viewers at all.
Why would people want to watch mid tier players? Do you watch minor league baseball on tv? or arena football lol, no you watch for skill and rarely entertainment. Those streams provide that.
On August 22 2011 14:54 Polskaa wrote: No offence Strifeco Machine Axlav
have no point to be on EG Destiny outstages them by a longshot especially Strifeco
Axslav beat Destiny at IPL. Destiny may be more popular but you can't just say he's better. I'd say Axslav, DeMu, and InControl are all within hitting range of Destiny in terms of skill level (all about equal), with Strifecro a step behind (and Machine and Lz about 50,000 steps behind).
That's not the point though.
For those who say Destiny and Idra are similar... well, they're both Zergs, both pretty good, both BM... but...
1) Idra is a better player. This is not debatable. Destiny took some games off great players but hasn't posted any real results. Idra, on the other hand, has won MLGs, still consistently finishes as a top 3 foreigner in MLG even with the Koreans around, had some decent Code S finishes, won IPL, etc. etc.
2) Idra is more valuable to EG in terms of marketability. When EG says Destiny's marketability is low, they mean it. Destiny is a popular player, but seeing as how the deal with Complexity didn't work out, we can assume that Destiny does not want to be doing non-game or coach related things. Idra is willing to show up on shows like Imbalanced, that DJWheat show (I don't watch these, sorry... don't know the name... Inside the Game?), and is willing to cast EG's team league and other things.
alot of people say that this is on the back of infestors being broken, but let us no forget that he did pretty well before the infestor, and created his own style based on that...Hell EG.LZGAMER got recruited by 5 rax reapering everyone and when it got nerfed he's done squat.
And not marketable, hell he has a hardcore fanbase, great personality (even though he can be offensive) and whatever. would love to see him play for a team soon
I rated 5. I use to always watch his stream, but not anymore he kinda of lost his magic on me. I have nothing against him. However, I'm not a huge fan boy to be clouded enough to give him anything higher. He has shown no real tournament presence, by that I mean at least top 10, and his only strategy are his infestors. If terrans utilize ghost more, I can't imagine mas infestors being to viable. However, I love it if he can prove me wrong.
On August 22 2011 14:54 Polskaa wrote: No offence Strifeco Machine Axlav
have no point to be on EG Destiny outstages them by a longshot especially Strifeco
Axslav beat Destiny at IPL. Destiny may be more popular but you can't just say he's better. I'd say Axslav, DeMu, and InControl are all within hitting range of Destiny in terms of skill level (all about equal), with Strifecro a step behind (and Machine and Lz about 50,000 steps behind).
That's not the point though.
For those who say Destiny and Idra are similar... well, they're both Zergs, both pretty good, both BM... but...
1) Idra is a better player. This is not debatable. Destiny took some games off great players but hasn't posted any real results. Idra, on the other hand, has won MLGs, still consistently finishes as a top 3 foreigner in MLG even with the Koreans around, had some decent Code S finishes, won IPL, etc. etc.
2) Idra is more valuable to EG in terms of marketability. When EG says Destiny's marketability is low, they mean it. Destiny is a popular player, but seeing as how the deal with Complexity didn't work out, we can assume that Destiny does not want to be doing non-game or coach related things. Idra is willing to show up on shows like Imbalanced, that DJWheat show (I don't watch these, sorry... don't know the name... Inside the Game?), and is willing to cast EG's team league and other things.
I like this post. Only thing I disagree with is saying machine and strifcro are super far behind when in reality their not. That's just in my opinion.
Wonder what Steve Bonelli has to say about "Destiny"...
This thread has become pointless. Who is anyone to judge if he has enough "value" to be on a team. Let Steve decide what's best for himself, if you're a fan, then support him, if not, just ignore him.
If the question is ever if a pro gaming team should pickup destiny, then the answer is yes. He has an incredible fanbase and a strong work ethic. I really hope he gets picked up by a big team soon.
On August 22 2011 15:34 scph wrote: Wonder what Steve Bonelli has to say about "Destiny"...
This thread has become pointless. Who is anyone to judge if he has enough "value" to be on a team. Let Steve decide what's best for himself, if you're a fan, then support him, if not, just ignore him.
Well said bro! It be cool for steven to comment in this thread and post his own self annalysis
"He is only ranked masters in Korea" So is Huk. And besides that is just stupid. He doesnt play enough to get on GM in Korea. Also I think Destiny is just better then incontrol.
I think Destiny is a pretty good player. I mean, he's taken legitimate series off of well known Koreans. But he has two major flaws keeping him off any teams as of now.
1. No major tourny wins, or even high placing. Untill he hits top 32 at an MLG, or maybe qualifies for Code A when he inevitably visits Korea, larger teams won't even look at him.
2. His personality. Now, I personally have no problem with it, but it's not very team-friendly. The reason he worked so well with ROOT was because they all had very similar personalities. I just don't think he would mesh well with any of the major teams, aside from Sixjax, considering they're the mercenary team. But Artosis has explicitly said he doesn't want him on his team :p
Once he solves #1, he should have no problem finding a team to support him, considering #2 is a lesser of the two issues.
Did you receive permission from AG to post a PM or to use his name in it? lol that seems pretty odd to be posting this sort of post with specific names
I believe that, like EGalex said, although he may be a good player in practice games, show matches or mid-tier tournaments, the fact of the matter is that if he is not proving himself on the big stage how can a competitive team be expected to take him on? Until he improves his game, or at least his tournament results, he cannot even hope to be recruited any time soon. Also, while I personally do not have any problem with his personality, it is understandable that teams would be cautious towards a recruitment. Being a good team player is, obviously, a core part to being on a team.
On August 22 2011 15:44 AnonymousXV wrote: more than half of the guys on EG according to this "EGalex" scale are like 3's and 4's at most
Axslav was a wc3 probably played for eg in wc3 but can't find that out. Demuslim is a very good terran who posts good results. Idra posts very good results and is one of the best NA players. Incontrol is semi decent, not posting the best results but being a very public figure and a player during sc1 for eg Huk arguably the best non korean and one of the best in the world overall LzGamer was an sc1 player with them. Machine another semi decent player that played during brood war Puma won nasl season 1 Strifeco good 2v2er
All of the players aside from strifeco and lzgamer, who are worse, incontrol, who's on the same level, are better than him. Likewise while they may not have the best results, they have tenure from sc1 which destiny doesn't have. While he does have an established fan base, his use of language and lack of being on an sc1 team keep him from being recruited. You also have to realize while a player may be bad, they would just accept a smaller pay, many people would gladly join eg, once a person has joined removing them from the team brings bad press.
cool kid and a decent player but he only plays mass infestor base builds
his play style is interesting but it gets monotonous at times... funny and ironic thing is he makes fun of koreans saying that 'they only do one build and get really good at it'
hes more of an entertainer than anything, i would rate him high on that regard
On August 22 2011 15:56 Pwnographics wrote: I think he needs to widen his range of strategies, apart from just mass infestor.
As we saw today it dies pretty easy to MMA style drop marine harass during and just when he gets infestors.
agreed, he really goes way to all out with infestors, it is unnecessary to even have that many and would most likely be a better "all around" strategy to lower his infestor count and throw in some different units.
On August 22 2011 15:43 Zlasher wrote: Did you receive permission from AG to post a PM or to use his name in it? lol that seems pretty odd to be posting this sort of post with specific names
This. I question if OP even asked Alex if he could post this for everyone to see.
Anyway, to justify the difference in skills in EG, keep in mind that people are paid different salaries. That, and a lot of their team are carry-overs from BW.
Personally, I would love to see Destiny move to Korea and continue his training there. He has great potential and good work ethic and would progress even more over there.
Well ,Destiny is a powerfull speaker , i'd say he would be good in politics but he's not mainstream in his views enugh to get votes, and the fact that his opponent would pull the "He dosent have a real job , he plays video games all day" card at every election dosent do him much credit... But do u have any ambitions of being a politician @Steven "Destiny" Bonell
I personally don't like destiny's playstyle and never watch his stream, but the fact that he already has an established fan base (that is really big - based off of stream hits) makes him marketable in my book. Yes he has his personality quirks, but its those quirks which have created a cult following. On the right team, he could could really prove an influential figure and an excellent man to represent some sponsors (there are a lot of sponsors which he wouldn't suit, obviously).
On August 22 2011 16:15 Plexa wrote: I personally don't like destiny's playstyle and never watch his stream, but the fact that he already has an established fan base (that is really big - based off of stream hits) makes him marketable in my book. Yes he has his personality quirks, but its those quirks which have created a cult following. On the right team, he could could really prove an influential figure and an excellent man to represent some sponsors (there are a lot of sponsors which he wouldn't suit, obviously).
But dont u think he has potential as a speeker ? I find he's able to analize situations very well , and quickly put togeather a very competent argument. Excuse my bad english
Destiny makes mistakes OFTEN, plain and simple. But many pros are not used to such extensive infestor play so he often gets away with some nail-biting victories (or losses). His play is FAR from refined, and his ZvP particularly is predictable at best (11-12pool>Sling>2base4gas>infestor>Hive>BL). I will admit he has gotten SO much better since I first watched him in his ZvT whinefest days and his full potential has yet to be reached.
But here are a few hard-hitting factoids to ask and discuss: 1) Why would a team pick up someone who has publicly expressed that he'd rather go it solo? That's an unnecessary risk for an unnecessary player (Grade B at best).
2) If I may be frank, Destiny is d***-riding the infestor into the ground. He probably has some of the most experience using the infestor to its utmost abilities, but it's been proven by his extremely lackluster tournament results that it can't and won't get him far.
3) I'm part of the viewership he has gained, except I've been around since the beginning (^o^). He's a great personality to have in the community, but my fanboyism checks out at the door and knows that if Destiny showed more varied ZvT, ZvP and even ZvZ tactics and strategies without the results, I'd respect him much more as a player.
4) With the game so volatile, will Destiny's success continue if and when Blizzard deems the infestor too powerful and hits it with the nerf bat? Only time will tell. I think its too early to really size him up when he has yet to show everything he has to offer.
I'm a pretty big Destiny fan, and I hope him the best in everything he does. I would rate him at a 6/10. He's definitely a notable player, but he really hasn't proved anything at a tournament, which is really where it counts.
I mean, if you beat a good player one time in a show match, that's impressive, but a tournament result is way more so.
On August 22 2011 13:33 Zahki wrote: Destiny is a good player, he just relies too much on his patented infestor playstyle. Gets him ladder wins but in tourneys where he's facing palyers who know him and his style it gets countered so easily. If he tries to play without infestors for 2-3 weeks and develop a few other tricks then I think he could go pretty well.
Destiny is more value as entertainment than high quality play anyway. Seeing him infestor his way out of terrible situations is always a laugh, especially if he's skyping while he does it.
Destiny has played an innumerable number of games against Deezer, and will basically always go ling infestor against him, even when he gets "hard countered" by a +2 chargelot archon build and will win a significantly large number of those games. So even if he is metagamed by high level grandmaster players he still can do a decent job against them.
Even if the GSPA were to be considered a "really big/notable" tournament, he'd still have to take a spot on the podium (top 3 finish) to prove himself, sniping players in a single encounter, even in a series, is not demonstrative of the consistency necessary to keep going all the way until outright trophies/metals/cash is awarded (which is what most look for in terms of "success").
How can you on the one hand grant that he has an amazing fan/stream following, yet rate him lowly in marketability? It doesn't make sense. The mere fact he attracts so many people to his stream, even without a team or tournament results, is proof that he is very marketable to fans of Starcraft. People don't watch him for no reason.
Agree he hasn't proven himself in tournaments, but that will come with time; he is a smart guy with good awareness.
On August 22 2011 16:43 KeksX wrote: Here's a simple thought:
Imagine NesTea without Infestors. He'd still be a freaking baller, right?
Now imagine Destiny without Infestors. Oops.
Imagine MKP without... erm. tanks?
He'd still be... errr. herp derp.
Thats not a good comparison as MKP doesn't go 1base siegetank-only rush or something like that(at least not that I know of) but Destiny does it with infestors all the way.
Destiny has yet to prove that he can play constantly good and not just gimmicky strategies. If he does that, he'll have a way better reputation. But right now, he's just "the infestor".
EDIT: Now don't get me wrong, I'm not judging destiny's potential or anything. But all I see is him winning with infestor-gimmicks and thats not really telling for me...
I was being sarcastic about the "siege tanks". I was going with the angle that a player can be famous for his ability to be really good with one unit without deserving to be dismissed as "gimmicky".
On August 22 2011 16:57 jacksonjackson86 wrote: I was being sarcastic about the "siege tanks". I was going with the angle that a player can be famous for his ability to be really good with one unit without deserving to be dismissed as "gimmicky".
Oops, didn't catch that
Well yea it's true that he can be famous, but being famous doesn't entitle you to be on a progaming team. Because people will eventually find out how to crush you everytime and then it's all over for you.
It would just be good for Destiny to focus on more safer and flexible strategies imho(And it's really nothing more than my opinion.). IF he manages to become solid AND keeps his gimmicky strategies alive he could become a foreign monster that would be feared.
Destiny is a good, or you could say awesome player. Don't get me wrong on this, but in order for you to be signed in a well-known team, you need to have consistency such as major tournaments and yadda yadda yadda. Yea, we all know that he can beat high-level players (also koreans :D), that doesnt mean that he should be sign right away. As EGalex mentioned, theres a lot of factors needed for a player to be signed. if he continuously show good tournaments results and showmatches, then yes, he will be signed on a good team in no time.
On August 22 2011 16:43 KeksX wrote: Here's a simple thought:
Imagine NesTea without Infestors. He'd still be a freaking baller, right?
Now imagine Destiny without Infestors. Oops.
Imagine MKP without... erm. tanks?
He'd still be... errr. herp derp.
Thats not a good comparison as MKP doesn't go 1base siegetank-only rush or something like that(at least not that I know of) but Destiny does it with infestors all the way.
Destiny has yet to prove that he can play constantly good and not just gimmicky strategies. If he does that, he'll have a way better reputation. But right now, he's just "the infestor".
EDIT: Now don't get me wrong, I'm not judging destiny's potential or anything. But all I see is him winning with infestor-gimmicks and thats not really telling for me...
he doesn't go one base infestor. And why are infestors considered gimicky? Is this the same stupid way of thinking that had Zerg go Roach/hydra/corruptor for months while whining at the same time?
If Infestors are gimicky then so are HT and Collosi. Infestors are a powerful Zerg unit and they will get more powerful once more zergs learn to control them the way terrans control marines or toss blink stalkers.
Tbh I really liked Destiny and enjoyed watching his streams until he started complaining to much about the game instead of focusing on improving and dealing with it. May have changed since this was a few months back
Actions always speak louder than words
Btw I don't think there should a poll regarding his skill because he is clearly a good player I think there should be a poll regarding his attitude and how it reflects on him
On August 22 2011 16:15 Plexa wrote: I personally don't like destiny's playstyle and never watch his stream, but the fact that he already has an established fan base (that is really big - based off of stream hits) makes him marketable in my book. Yes he has his personality quirks, but its those quirks which have created a cult following. On the right team, he could could really prove an influential figure and an excellent man to represent some sponsors (there are a lot of sponsors which he wouldn't suit, obviously).
I disagreed with Alex's point on marketability at first, but then I thought about it, and promoting a player like Destiny would most likely bring a lot of ill attention. Sure, he has a ton of fans, but he has a lot of antifans as well because he's just not a great player who gets a lot of attention. If you try to make a big deal out of someone who doesn't deserve it, then you're just gonna be inviting a lot of criticism.
Regardless of what his fans who watch his stream think, destiny isn't someone who just "hasn't broken out yet". He's at a level in tournaments where he deserves to be, and until he improves his skill level all around, he won't be getting far in tournaments.
On August 22 2011 16:57 jacksonjackson86 wrote: I was being sarcastic about the "siege tanks". I was going with the angle that a player can be famous for his ability to be really good with one unit without deserving to be dismissed as "gimmicky".
Oops, didn't catch that
Well yea it's true that he can be famous, but being famous doesn't entitle you to be on a progaming team. Because people will eventually find out how to crush you everytime and then it's all over for you.
It would just be good for Destiny to focus on more safer and flexible strategies imho(And it's really nothing more than my opinion.). IF he manages to become solid AND keeps his gimmicky strategies alive he could become a foreign monster that would be feared.
I agree. He needs to put more scores on the board in live tournies. But to be fair (to my knowledge) he hasn't played that many. And those that he has, he has had to fight his way through the open bracket, which wouldn't be easy for many top pros.
His showmatches and recent online tourny results don't count for much, but they do show that people who come into games against him knowing his strategies can still go down.
He's got work to do, but my feelings are pro-teams should see the potential for a beastly player and do what it takes to sign him early.
On August 22 2011 16:43 KeksX wrote: Here's a simple thought:
Imagine NesTea without Infestors. He'd still be a freaking baller, right?
Now imagine Destiny without Infestors. Oops.
Imagine MKP without... erm. tanks?
He'd still be... errr. herp derp.
Thats not a good comparison as MKP doesn't go 1base siegetank-only rush or something like that(at least not that I know of) but Destiny does it with infestors all the way.
Destiny has yet to prove that he can play constantly good and not just gimmicky strategies. If he does that, he'll have a way better reputation. But right now, he's just "the infestor".
EDIT: Now don't get me wrong, I'm not judging destiny's potential or anything. But all I see is him winning with infestor-gimmicks and thats not really telling for me...
he doesn't go one base infestor. And why are infestors considered gimicky? Is this the same stupid way of thinking that had Zerg go Roach/hydra/corruptor for months while whining at the same time?
If Infestors are gimicky then so are HT and Collosi. Infestors are a powerful Zerg unit and they will get more powerful once more zergs learn to control them the way terrans control marines or toss blink stalkers.
He gets infestors out ASAP and then masses them(losing them, but then remassing them again :D). Whether it be on 1 base or 2base isn't really important, he does it just in a gimmicky style(doesn't scout and just goes blindly for lair etc). Maybe I'm too harsh calling it gimmicky but this is how I feel about that.
Let's not start a balance discussion or ingame-discussion as this is not the topic. It's just my opinion that he wins greatly because of the reason that he has this gimmicky playstyle around the infestor.
As soon as I see him playing solid playstyles and everything and still have decent success I'll change my mind.
@jacksonjackson86: Yea right. Right now, people still didn't quite figure out how to beat this style. But they will eventually, and if Destiny doesn't adapt soon enough he'll be "caught off guard" pretty bad...
On August 22 2011 16:43 KeksX wrote: Here's a simple thought:
Imagine NesTea without Infestors. He'd still be a freaking baller, right?
Now imagine Destiny without Infestors. Oops.
Imagine MKP without... erm. tanks?
He'd still be... errr. herp derp.
Thats not a good comparison as MKP doesn't go 1base siegetank-only rush or something like that(at least not that I know of) but Destiny does it with infestors all the way.
Destiny has yet to prove that he can play constantly good and not just gimmicky strategies. If he does that, he'll have a way better reputation. But right now, he's just "the infestor".
EDIT: Now don't get me wrong, I'm not judging destiny's potential or anything. But all I see is him winning with infestor-gimmicks and thats not really telling for me...
he doesn't go one base infestor. And why are infestors considered gimicky? Is this the same stupid way of thinking that had Zerg go Roach/hydra/corruptor for months while whining at the same time?
If Infestors are gimicky then so are HT and Collosi. Infestors are a powerful Zerg unit and they will get more powerful once more zergs learn to control them the way terrans control marines or toss blink stalkers.
He gets infestors out ASAP and then masses them(losing them, but then remassing them again :D). Whether it be on 1 base or 2base isn't really important, he does it just in a gimmicky style(doesn't scout and just goes blindly for lair etc). Maybe I'm too harsh calling it gimmicky but this is how I feel about that.
Let's not start a balance discussion or ingame-discussion as this is not the topic. It's just my opinion that he wins greatly because of the reason that he has this gimmicky playstyle around the infestor.
As soon as I see him playing solid playstyles and everything and still have decent success I'll change my mind.
@jacksonjackson86: Yea right. Right now, people still didn't quite figure out how to beat this style. But they will eventually, and if Destiny doesn't adapt soon enough he'll be "caught off guard" pretty bad...
"He gets infestors out ASAP and then masses them(losing them, but then remassing them again :D). Whether it be on 1 base or 2base isn't really important, he does it just in a gimmicky style(doesn't scout and just goes blindly for lair etc). Maybe I'm too harsh calling it gimmicky but this is how I feel about that. " well thats kinda how mutas used to be when you had to one base muta vs 5 rax reaper? it still stands strong today. you mass mutas to beat turrents and gain map control and lose them while picknig off units and retreating. not a very helpful post when most high gas intensive units are exactly like that. collesus hts operate with that same idea of massing losing remaking. as for destiny, he does mix it up sometimes. he did go mutas vs in control. its just he dislikes being cheesed and infestor is a great shield to cheese. any type of mass roach play or muta play can get cheesed while hydras get beat out by a simple tech switch
On August 22 2011 16:43 KeksX wrote: Here's a simple thought:
Imagine NesTea without Infestors. He'd still be a freaking baller, right?
Now imagine Destiny without Infestors. Oops.
Imagine MKP without... erm. tanks?
He'd still be... errr. herp derp.
Thats not a good comparison as MKP doesn't go 1base siegetank-only rush or something like that(at least not that I know of) but Destiny does it with infestors all the way.
Destiny has yet to prove that he can play constantly good and not just gimmicky strategies. If he does that, he'll have a way better reputation. But right now, he's just "the infestor".
EDIT: Now don't get me wrong, I'm not judging destiny's potential or anything. But all I see is him winning with infestor-gimmicks and thats not really telling for me...
he doesn't go one base infestor. And why are infestors considered gimicky? Is this the same stupid way of thinking that had Zerg go Roach/hydra/corruptor for months while whining at the same time?
If Infestors are gimicky then so are HT and Collosi. Infestors are a powerful Zerg unit and they will get more powerful once more zergs learn to control them the way terrans control marines or toss blink stalkers.
He gets infestors out ASAP and then masses them(losing them, but then remassing them again :D). Whether it be on 1 base or 2base isn't really important, he does it just in a gimmicky style(doesn't scout and just goes blindly for lair etc). Maybe I'm too harsh calling it gimmicky but this is how I feel about that.
Let's not start a balance discussion or ingame-discussion as this is not the topic. It's just my opinion that he wins greatly because of the reason that he has this gimmicky playstyle around the infestor.
As soon as I see him playing solid playstyles and everything and still have decent success I'll change my mind.
@jacksonjackson86: Yea right. Right now, people still didn't quite figure out how to beat this style. But they will eventually, and if Destiny doesn't adapt soon enough he'll be "caught off guard" pretty bad...
I mean what you are saying is the same as saying Idra plays gimmicky because he always has the gameplan to geet out Mutas in ZvT, it's a playstyle, why should it be gimmicky if instead of getting 30 mutas, he gets 15 infestors. mutas are a utility unit, as are infestors, it'ss just because infestors are so new that people like to call them gimmicky right?
On August 22 2011 16:57 jacksonjackson86 wrote: I was being sarcastic about the "siege tanks". I was going with the angle that a player can be famous for his ability to be really good with one unit without deserving to be dismissed as "gimmicky".
Well a few things here. MKP was looked at as "gimmicky." And he also had way more success than Destiny has had. Sure he hasn't won, but a couple of second places in GSL isn't anything to sneeze at. Also his playstyle was "gimmicky" way early in the game and since then has diversified his play a lot.
as much of a destiny as i am (watching his stream right now, and i play toss :p) he relies on infestors too much once they get fixed i dunno how well he'll do
sadly, another good player who doesnt seem to preform well at tournaments
I find that Destiny is showing a lot more effort and results compared to several members of already well known teams. I dont really want to give names, it might just be me but I feel like some players in well known teams just dont play well enough like they did before, while Destiny only shows constant (though small) improvements everytime I get on his stream.
Maybe other players are also not streaming enough, so I dont have the full picture of everyone's performance.
On August 22 2011 17:42 ThatGuy89 wrote: as much of a destiny as i am (watching his stream right now, and i play toss :p) he relies on infestors too much once they get fixed i dunno how well he'll do
sadly, another good player who doesnt seem to preform well at tournaments
Watching his stream, as a zerg player, I also find that his map control and creep spread is something to work on...
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
I have to agree with Alex mainly, and i think your view of SotG is really incorrect, just because none of them are currently winning mlgs/gsls doesnt mean that their opinions mean less than someone like nestea/mc/mvp. If you see someone like Artosis as a coach in a sport they know probably more about the game then the players and Artosis also leads Sixjax and has a lot of recruitment/scouting experience. And incontrol and tyler have been prevalent members of SC bw/2 for a long time
Joining a team would give him regular practice partners, and people who'd teach him how to play the game without relying on a strategy that hasn't been figured out quite yet.
Anyone remember Spanishiwa and how much people loved him, hyped him up to the point of ridiculousness? It's similar here. He came up with something that works reasonably well, and rode it out until it died.
Unless Destiny gets better at SC2 in general, he will not be able to progress.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
As far as I am concerned, Destiny does not have any great tournament results and hence he is off my radar. But if he is as good as you claim, then good results are just a matter of time, so I'll wait till that time.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
What's Sjow's style? I didn't even know he had one o.O.
Like has been said, there are players on well known teams that consistently display pretty poor results, not gonna name anyone but yeah, I don't see how he's very different from some of these lower tier pros.
I'm also not sure why people call his style one dimensional, yes he uses infestors a lot, but I don't think one day someone is going to wake up and say "Great scott I've got it, here's how to never lose to infestors again!" and then Destiny will fall to bronze league or something. It's just a slightly different unit composition, the mechanics and game sense remain the same.
On August 22 2011 18:13 Redox wrote: One of the dumbest threads I have seen in a while.
I completely disagree. The OP was insightful, thought-provoking, and a refreshing change of pace from the usual crap-tastically written tripe that most moronic posters bring. Destiny is one of the most popular players outside of Korea right now and he doesn't have a team-- this thread is highly relevant. So, basically, what I'm saying is, keep stupid posts like that to yourself.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
The comparison can be comprehensible for GoOdy(somewhat trademark style, some shine here and there, with more LAN results though), but Sjow is able to play several styles, and posted good LAN results, elfi only made some splash recently, but during LAN (assembly Summer/Winter)...
To be honest, I don't see the point of this thread. Destiny has a good potential, that's true. But the decision to get him in a good team relies on his decision, on the perspectives he offers for the team...
On August 22 2011 16:43 KeksX wrote: Here's a simple thought:
Imagine NesTea without Infestors. He'd still be a freaking baller, right?
Now imagine Destiny without Infestors. Oops.
Imagine MKP without... erm. tanks?
He'd still be... errr. herp derp.
Thats not a good comparison as MKP doesn't go 1base siegetank-only rush or something like that(at least not that I know of) but Destiny does it with infestors all the way.
Destiny has yet to prove that he can play constantly good and not just gimmicky strategies. If he does that, he'll have a way better reputation. But right now, he's just "the infestor".
EDIT: Now don't get me wrong, I'm not judging destiny's potential or anything. But all I see is him winning with infestor-gimmicks and thats not really telling for me...
he doesn't go one base infestor. And why are infestors considered gimicky? Is this the same stupid way of thinking that had Zerg go Roach/hydra/corruptor for months while whining at the same time?
If Infestors are gimicky then so are HT and Collosi. Infestors are a powerful Zerg unit and they will get more powerful once more zergs learn to control them the way terrans control marines or toss blink stalkers.
He gets infestors out ASAP and then masses them(losing them, but then remassing them again :D). Whether it be on 1 base or 2base isn't really important, he does it just in a gimmicky style(doesn't scout and just goes blindly for lair etc). Maybe I'm too harsh calling it gimmicky but this is how I feel about that.
Let's not start a balance discussion or ingame-discussion as this is not the topic. It's just my opinion that he wins greatly because of the reason that he has this gimmicky playstyle around the infestor.
As soon as I see him playing solid playstyles and everything and still have decent success I'll change my mind.
@jacksonjackson86: Yea right. Right now, people still didn't quite figure out how to beat this style. But they will eventually, and if Destiny doesn't adapt soon enough he'll be "caught off guard" pretty bad...
2base colossi. Sound familiar? 2base muta. Sound familiar? So, how is 2base infestor gimicky?
I do not know why are you so sure that infestor play will be hardcountered in any future?! It is just another tactic that works if the player does it well enough. Destiny beat some good Toss with this but lost to Socke and some others using this style.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
On August 22 2011 18:13 Redox wrote: One of the dumbest threads I have seen in a while.
I completely disagree. The OP was insightful, thought-provoking, and a refreshing change of pace from the usual crap-tastically written tripe that most moronic posters bring. Destiny is one of the most popular players outside of Korea right now and he doesn't have a team-- this thread is highly relevant. So, basically, what I'm saying is, keep stupid posts like that to yourself.
Insightful? There are just a few victories listed which are compared to the only two losses the OP could apparently find. And then we are supposed to make a judgement of the player based on these carefully selected results? There is not even a link to or a mentioning of his ladder results or his overall tournament results as listed in TLPD for example.
I just looked it up, he has 57 % win on NA ladder. He is ranked 297 on TLP, with less than 50% win in all 3 matchups. I think these numbers add more insight into the "value" of this player than anything in the OP.
The ranking system also seems completely arbitrary and cannot be compared to anything. The judging will either be done by fanboys or by haters. Others will simply dont care and also dont know anything about his play, because he has not been seen much in tournaments (I have seen maybe 2 games of him).
he is a good player but his push shows how broken zerg is imo if zerg can stay on same bases as t and or p as fastest macro race and still is able 2 win there is sumthn wrong this 2 base ling inf push is rly imba
He is a decent player for sure with a massive fan base.. but how many players on the NA grandmaster ladder are as good or better than him? Just look at this stats in comparison to others..
Sure he can beat really good players occasionally and some not so good ones but so can most other GM players. Is a massive fan base and personality enough to get you on a good team? I would of though so but maybe not..
And yea sjow/goody/elfi (yes even elfi look at his achievements.. far better than destinys) are above destinys level definately..
On August 22 2011 19:21 esteem wrote: he is a good player but his push shows how broken zerg is imo if zerg can stay on same bases as t and or p as fastest macro race and still is able 2 win there is sumthn wrong this 2 base ling inf push is rly imba
Stop the whining, and spell properly. Why should zerg always have to be ahead on bases?
Destiny seems more than happy to be the most consistent streamer on TL. Every time I mouse over his stream, he'll have 4-7k viewers. If he wanted to be on a team, he would have stuck with coL, which is no small team by any margin.
Also I think he has a child to take care of, I doubt he'll want to commit to practice sessions or media events. Don't forget that Alex may have taken that into account when he argued Destiny's marketability.
While I'm no fanboy of Destiny, I just had to point out that his army control is leagues better than almost any other known Zerg. Yes, I'm including Koreans here. I guess messing around with glass-Infestors for so long has earned him that. He could definitely be more than a one-hit-wonder if he really wanted.
On August 22 2011 13:22 TemujinGK wrote: I agree that his style is innovative, and he should be applauded for developing such a huge fan base and streaming following. However, he currently has no impressive results to speak of in my eyes, really (practice games, show matches, and mid-tier tournaments just don't matter, unfortunately). Also, his image and personality really hold him back from becoming more of a mainstream star.
Yea, because Idra has such a winning personality right? :x
On August 22 2011 13:22 TemujinGK wrote: I agree that his style is innovative, and he should be applauded for developing such a huge fan base and streaming following. However, he currently has no impressive results to speak of in my eyes, really (practice games, show matches, and mid-tier tournaments just don't matter, unfortunately). Also, his image and personality really hold him back from becoming more of a mainstream star.
On August 22 2011 20:07 Bagi wrote: I think you're giving him too much attention.
Is he really that important of a personality that threads like this are warranted? Why not discuss it in his fanclub?
That's exactly what I thought when I read the thread.
I know that Destiny has a rather large fan base due to his interesting style etc... But he does not have all that many achievements.
Also what exactly are you trying to get out of a thread like this, everyone to go OMG DESTINY AMAZING RANK HIM HIGH AND GET HIM ON A TEAM. I am a little confused, shouldn't this be in his fan thread?
on topic: I don't understand why egalex rated him poorly in marketing/personality, I mean I don't watch him, but it's his personality that made him famous and made all reddit drool over him.
You people sitting here and trying to bash on EG for having idra need to take a step back and realize that idra can actually compete on a professional level.
Sure they have to weigh the good and the bad but if you take an attitude that belongs to destiny and put it next to idra and than compare skill who would you pick?
Aside from that I believe I have read multiple times even though he won't make an official statement in regards to how much he makes from streaming apparently it is enough to justify multiple hours throughout the week either as the main staple of his income or to supplement another income that he may receive from working a standard day job.
Aside from that why do we have to put so much weight into his achievements or his "marketability" I am sorry but I just do not see the point of this thread, it almost feels like some kind of highschool facebook post about someone except its a popularity contest and people are comparing e-peen sizes.
If the man just want's to stream to supplement his income and has no real interest in putting the time or dedication required to compete at a top level than why is that anyone's business and why in the world are you posting a statement made from a EG representative on the forums in some pseudo gossip mag poll on this website.
If he was on Complexity for even a tiny time period he obviously must have more skill than the majority of people that play the masters/gm level and maybe he decided the pro gaming thing just wasn't for him but either way this post seems kind of pointless and I sort of feel bad for even bumping it with my post, but whatever its here so i am posting.
I just want to say half the reason I was attracted to SC2 was because of this "amazing" community and how mature and awesome it was suppose to be and this is coming from someone who played counter-strike 1.6 for years with one of the WORST communities you can imagine but the longer I frequent these forums and see polls like this or people turning their back on NASL over some petty stuff I guess it is sinking in that this community is just like any other.
What I guess I am trying to say is I think we can put all of our energy into something a little more productive.
I don't understand what that EGalex means about Destiny's personality holding him back. It sounds like something you say because you think everyone else thinks it's true. Idra's personality if anything helped his reputation for better or worse - and Destiny despite not having all that many tournament achievements is already one of the most popular streamers. I think it is ridiculous and somewhat unfair to bash him for his personality as he really isn't all that different - just more popular than most players. Esports grows more interesting with interesting players, and everyone shouldn't be a Korean who can't say anything but "I hope me and my opponent will play our best and show good games". Destiny isn't even Dennis Rodman of Starcraft enough for his personality to be so discussed so much in a negative manner when talking about Destiny.
i like how incontrol is deamed 'and he is ALSO high masters in korea!!!!'
but destiny is 'only masters in korea'
you have no idea how the ladder system works so its more than possible destiny is higher than incontrol in korea. i dont even like destiny, my point is merely even in a thread where you 'researched' the facts about him, you dropped in some bias here and there.
On August 22 2011 20:07 Bagi wrote: I think you're giving him too much attention.
Is he really that important of a personality that threads like this are warranted? Why not discuss it in his fanclub?
That's exactly what I thought when I read the thread.
I know that Destiny has a rather large fan base due to his interesting style etc... But he does not have all that many achievements.
Also what exactly are you trying to get out of a thread like this, everyone to go OMG DESTINY AMAZING RANK HIM HIGH AND GET HIM ON A TEAM. I am a little confused, shouldn't this be in his fan thread?
I agree, i do not see why he needs a Thread ? What is your goal with this ?
Watch the haterz swallow their words when destiny wins something big. Hopefully he starts going crazy on kr ladder 8 hours a day like the chinese players did and starts owning everyone one up soon.
STEVEN BRONELL II FIGHTING
(yes, I am a toss player, but he is simply just a fun person to watch, plus he's pretty good to boot)
You cannot judge the skill of a player over several BoX. Until destiny places high in a major tournament (MLG, DH, NASL, etc.), he is not a top-tier player.
I don't consider him overall as a player comparable to Pro's, I watched his stream when he just used to troll people for entertainment, now I just see it as any other mid/lower tier player streaming as he doesn't really express his character anymore
On August 22 2011 21:31 greggy wrote: You cannot judge the skill of a player over several BoX. Until destiny places high in a major tournament (MLG, DH, NASL, etc.), he is not a top-tier player.
Completely agree with this, ofc his showmatches show he has some skill but until he produces proper results when it matters you definitely can't rate his skill level that highly.
Remember that EGAlex is the guy with the checkbook. He cares about if he can take Destiny to Intel and say "heres our new guy, can you give us some money so we can send him to Europe?". But Intel isn't going to want to have their logo on a guy that says faggot and nigger on his stream, or a guy that doesn't conform to the team spirit.
A big part of Destinys appeal is also that he is so anti establishment.. and that means its going to be very hard to sell him to a sponsor.
The funny thing is that IdrA and Destiny are actually similar in many ways. Listen to the SOTG episode where IdrA and Destiny was on, and it was basically those two agreeing, against the opinions of the other hosts. IdrA doesnt give a fuck about sponsors or teams or convention and respect.. he just want to beat people. IdrA however understands that he needs the support of the team do get those opportunities, so he does the bare minimum he needs to be marketable. He understands that the skill that he possesses is not enough, but that he has to sacrifice a little bit of his independence to do what he loves.
Remember, IdrA went o his own when he was 18 to sleep on a cold floor in Korea, just so he could play the game he loved, 12 hours a day. Now money has become a factor, but guys like IdrA and Destiny are actually the people who would be doing this without the Intels and without the 10k stream viewers..
Winning a series against Bomber 2-0 in drawn out macro games should get him a spot on a pro team, theres tons of non-deserving no-namers on proteams anyways so why not pick up Destiny who have shown signs of potential.
One of the most innovate Zerg players, he plays Infestors/lings style like a Boss! Which are still some players on "regular" baneling/muta style! I would like to see him in some big ass Teams, coz he deserve one.
i must say, destiny has gotten better over the last couple of months, but he's still not particularly good...once i see a single result in a big tournament by him, i might consider him better than a B-class player.
He has always said since he left CoL that he didn't want to be associated with any teams. He believes he's fine on his own. As for skill, he's got enough for any team. His style could be one dimensional, but it's not his fault he's that famous. People pick up on every little thing he does. If he was any random player coming into the scene without any voice, he'd be the big guy (judging by the positive results). This whole discussion is pointless, he knows his flaws and he can change them. Does he need a thread discussing his opportunities? Or when he looks at this seeing something that offends him? (RATING HIM ON A SCALE OF 1/10, ARE YOU SERIOUS).
Nevertheless. People arguing that Destiny doesn't want to join a team because he doesn't want to change his attitude are mongols. If you've followed him long enough, or even looked at his name. ROOTDestiny. When was he ever in the news for bad behavior, or BM in a team? CoL just made it look that way.
On August 22 2011 22:16 snapski wrote: One of the most innovate Zerg players, he plays Infestors/lings style like a Boss! Which are still some players on "regular" baneling/muta style! I would like to see him in some big ass Teams, coz he deserve one.
in what way he the 'most innovative'
he has invented 1 style ever. he isnt the bleeding each of new styles every month, he just has his one, that he plays. which puts him on par with every other player ever.
Why the hell would he not deserve to be on a top team? He puts just as much work in as any other pro, and I'm not one for fan-boy-ism but this seems ridiculous to deny that he has potential.
I think top teams would be stupid not to try and pick him up, if not just for the marketing value he brings, but you're going to have thousands of people waiting on his next big win. The fact is, he's an interesting character, he plays entertaining games and he's far, far more likable than a lot of top players.
On August 22 2011 13:22 TemujinGK wrote: I agree that his style is innovative, and he should be applauded for developing such a huge fan base and streaming following. However, he currently has no impressive results to speak of in my eyes, really (practice games, show matches, and mid-tier tournaments just don't matter, unfortunately). Also, his image and personality really hold him back from becoming more of a mainstream star.
Yea, because Idra has such a winning personality right? :x
IdrA wins/Has won major tournaments, and produces good results in pretty much any tournament he enters, that overshadows his manners. Where as Destiny takes series of good players but has not really had a good tournament showing(yet?).
Overall rank - 2. I don't think he can achieve anything, so I can't see why any professional team would like to hire him. If I have to choose any team, I'd go with sixjax. His infestor play is funny, but that's all. Beating Bomber or Puzzle doesn't mean anything if you can't get any good performance in a tournament. Summing up, he's way overrated and I don't see any reason for him to be in top team besides marketing.
But destiny is an awesome player, but you need to have a professional attitude. Telling someone to fuck off, or not ggin' makes you the bad boy in starcraft. But calling people faggots and the like isn't really something a team can stand behind. We may think it or say it, but it becomes a different beast when sponsors are involved.
I don't think the starcraft world is ready for a Liquid`Destiny.
On August 22 2011 22:25 Circos wrote: Why the hell would he not deserve to be on a top team? He puts just as much work in as any other pro, and I'm not one for fan-boy-ism but this seems ridiculous to deny that he has potential.
I think top teams would be stupid not to try and pick him up, if not just for the marketing value he brings, but you're going to have thousands of people waiting on his next big win. The fact is, he's an interesting character, he plays entertaining games and he's far, far more likable than a lot of top players.
Who swears in his stream and has an abusive personality.
Doesn't matter if you are amazing. No company will pay you money to represent them to then listen to you say racist terms on his stream.
Personally, i think he is skilled but will fall off soon.
I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
I think top teams would be stupid not to try and pick him up, if not just for the marketing value he brings, but you're going to have thousands of people waiting on his next big win. The fact is, he's an interesting character, he plays entertaining games and he's far, far more likable than a lot of top players.
Sponsors always love to be associated with people that spout racist slurs.
It is a shame that Destiny will not ever get on a respectable team because of his attitude. Watching him rise to such stardom, skill, and popularity, only to be held back by his attitude and choice of vocabulary is quite disappointing. Some say that his racy attitude was the reason he became so popular, which is most likely true but a lot of people like him for his interesting styles. I wish him the best, he could really use the practice a team set-up would give him, and he could start to see some really good results. Without good MLG postings, he is going to fade into the background. :/
I think top teams would be stupid not to try and pick him up, if not just for the marketing value he brings, but you're going to have thousands of people waiting on his next big win. The fact is, he's an interesting character, he plays entertaining games and he's far, far more likable than a lot of top players.
Sponsors always love to be associated with people that spout racist slurs.
Sadly this, until he starts winning stuff no high end team would even consider him as a player. Does not matter if he does not want to be on a big team, he cant get on one to begin with.
On August 22 2011 22:31 Detri wrote: I think the point of this thread is lost.
But destiny is an awesome player, but you need to have a professional attitude. Telling someone to fuck off, or not ggin' makes you the bad boy in starcraft. But calling people faggots and the like isn't really something a team can stand behind. We may think it or say it, but it becomes a different beast when sponsors are involved.
I don't think the starcraft world is ready for a Liquid`Destiny.
If you think these are his behaviors than you haven't watched his stream and you're getting 3rd hand misinformation. Destiny is no more BM than the average progamer.
I was generous and rated Destiny at a 5(compared to top foreigners such as White-Ra, Idra, HuK, Select, etc). Destiny's problem is he is a one trick pony, zergling infestor basically every game. If he ever intends on becoming a serious contender in tournaments he is going to have to practice other styles of play. I can't think of a "pro"(such as a successful Korean) that uses the same build game after game. On the other hand, I think it is amazing that he can make a living off of streaming.
I think top teams would be stupid not to try and pick him up, if not just for the marketing value he brings, but you're going to have thousands of people waiting on his next big win. The fact is, he's an interesting character, he plays entertaining games and he's far, far more likable than a lot of top players.
Sponsors always love to be associated with people that spout racist slurs.
Sadly this, until he starts winning stuff no high end team would even consider him as a player. Does not matter if he does not want to be on a big team, he cant get on one to begin with.
He was on one and left Complexity. I'm done reading this thread. Just keep your eyes open for blatantly wrong shit TLers.....
I've always been very critical about Destiny, despite being a regular viewer. I feel that's he's a valuable asset to Starcraft 2. He provides a service to us Starcraft fanboys, entertainment. His stream is among the most entertaining due to his quirkiness and his crude humour, which some may view as uncouth. Regardless, the viewers keep on growing, proving that he is a force to be reckoned with with regards to streamers.
Destiny is a man with a passion for Starcraft 2 who provides a service to the community and because of that he has my support. Kind of like Idra, while his 'childish' antics may gain him much hate throughout the community, his personality has gained him a huge following and in turn, helped spur on the growth of esports. I for one started watching competitive Starcraft 2 because of Idra ( I don't play at all), although I disagree with much of his balance arguments.
I feel that a lot of people in Team Liquid are too judgmental and harsh towards our streamers/pro-gamers some times. As much as Esports is a spectator sport, I get the feeling that many members think that pro-gamers owe something to them; People gave Sheth so much shit for switching teams, I saw so many "If you can't handle Korea you'll always be a failure." comments, there were even personal attacks (ranging from his weight to his character) towards Sheth for leaving (getting released) from his team. It's his choice and his own, and we should respect it.
Moreover, this thread is very unfair to Destiny; I don't think it's fair to make a thread just to throw a community member into the spotlight and judge him unprovoked (in my opinion this is always wrong), and the blatant disrespect that I see in this thread is just shocking and disappointing to me.
Shoot all the bluejays you want, if you can hit 'em, but remember it's a sin to kill a mockingbird
I think top teams would be stupid not to try and pick him up, if not just for the marketing value he brings, but you're going to have thousands of people waiting on his next big win. The fact is, he's an interesting character, he plays entertaining games and he's far, far more likable than a lot of top players.
Sponsors always love to be associated with people that spout racist slurs.
Sadly this, until he starts winning stuff no high end team would even consider him as a player. Does not matter if he does not want to be on a big team, he cant get on one to begin with.
He was on one and left Complexity. I'm done reading this thread. Just keep your eyes open for blatantly wrong shit TLers.....
I was under the impression he got released. Was that whole contract issue and him not apparently reading it properly or something.
Big fan of Steven here. But if any of you watched him streaming yesterday, he openly stated how retarded he thinks this thread is. I couldn't agree more. You should not be publicly using EGAlex's name, and quoting him, in a PRIVATE message. That's just idiotic.
Second, until he does anything on LAN, he is a nobody. I fucking love the guy, he's one of my favorite Zerg, but his wins against Bomber and Ace are not even remotely close enough to consider him a progamer. He is a pro-streamer, and that's how he prefers it, as evident with him leaving compLexity.
Third, his hype comes from his fans, meaning that he has high marketability and fame. It may be negative marketability, but marketability is marketability.
--
This thread is disapproved by Destiny himself, so I am going to go ahead and say that this thread is stupid and pointless. He is a fucking player of Starcraft 2, and a high-revenue generating streamer, with some pretty cool wins against top players. That's it.
Stop trying to feed the poor when they aren't asking for help in the first place. He's a big boy. He can handle himself.
On August 22 2011 22:46 lisward wrote: I've always been very critical about Destiny, despite being a regular viewer. I feel that's he's a valuable asset to Starcraft 2. He provides a service to us Starcraft fanboys, entertainment. His stream is among the most entertaining due to his quirkiness and his crude humour, which some may view as uncouth. Regardless, the viewers keep on growing, proving that he is a force to be reckoned with with regards to streamers.
Destiny is a man with a passion for Starcraft 2 who provides a service to the community and because of that he has my support. Kind of like Idra, while his 'childish' antics may gain him much hate throughout the community, his personality has gained him a huge following and in turn, helped spur on the growth of esports. I for one started watching competitive Starcraft 2 because of Idra ( I don't play at all), although I disagree with much of his balance arguments.
I feel that a lot of people in Team Liquid are too judgmental and harsh towards our streamers/pro-gamers some times. As much as Esports is a spectator sport, I get the feeling that many members think that pro-gamers owe something to them; People gave Sheth so much shit for switching teams, I saw so many "If you can't handle Korea you'll always be a failure." comments, there were even personal attacks (ranging from his weight to his character) towards Sheth for leaving (getting released) from his team. It's his choice and his own, and we should respect it.
Moreover, this thread is very unfair to Destiny; I don't think it's fair to make a thread just to throw a community member into the spotlight and judge him unprovoked (in my opinion this is always wrong), and the blatant disrespect that I see in this thread is just shocking and disappointing to me.
Shoot all the bluejays you want, if you can hit 'em, but remember it's a sin to kill a mockingbird
As much as i agree with this the unfortunate fact is that Destiny is someone who i can see making opinions in a thread such as this one. It is not disrespectful to state your opinion of the guy.
I'm not sure where people get off saying that he lives and dies with infestors. He was rolling the micro-intensive muta-ling for quite awhile well before that patch for the infestors, to the point where he was getting meta-gamed.
If anything, that might be one of Destiny's strongest attributes; his ability to completely engulf his experience of a build or play style and stick with it no matter what. It can be extremely beneficial to discover all the nuances of such a thing.
In my opinion, his next step is to add one or two more builds/styles, and consistently switch between them. This will do well for any future tournaments.
On August 22 2011 22:25 Circos wrote: Why the hell would he not deserve to be on a top team? He puts just as much work in as any other pro, and I'm not one for fan-boy-ism but this seems ridiculous to deny that he has potential.
I think top teams would be stupid not to try and pick him up, if not just for the marketing value he brings, but you're going to have thousands of people waiting on his next big win. The fact is, he's an interesting character, he plays entertaining games and he's far, far more likable than a lot of top players.
Who swears in his stream and has an abusive personality.
Doesn't matter if you are amazing. No company will pay you money to represent them to then listen to you say racist terms on his stream.
Personally, i think he is skilled but will fall off soon.
Oh really? And I'm sure no company would ever support or endorse a player who tells his opponent to "fuck off" on a live casted game at a major LAN tournament, would they? Hmm?
On August 22 2011 22:31 Detri wrote: I think the point of this thread is lost.
But destiny is an awesome player, but you need to have a professional attitude. Telling someone to fuck off, or not ggin' makes you the bad boy in starcraft. But calling people faggots and the like isn't really something a team can stand behind. We may think it or say it, but it becomes a different beast when sponsors are involved.
I don't think the starcraft world is ready for a Liquid`Destiny.
If you think these are his behaviors than you haven't watched his stream and you're getting 3rd hand misinformation. Destiny is no more BM than the average progamer.
dude.. I don't even want to post this but people need to get real....
On August 22 2011 22:25 Circos wrote: Why the hell would he not deserve to be on a top team? He puts just as much work in as any other pro, and I'm not one for fan-boy-ism but this seems ridiculous to deny that he has potential.
I think top teams would be stupid not to try and pick him up, if not just for the marketing value he brings, but you're going to have thousands of people waiting on his next big win. The fact is, he's an interesting character, he plays entertaining games and he's far, far more likable than a lot of top players.
Who swears in his stream and has an abusive personality.
Doesn't matter if you are amazing. No company will pay you money to represent them to then listen to you say racist terms on his stream.
Personally, i think he is skilled but will fall off soon.
Oh really? And I'm sure no company would ever support or endorse a player who tells his opponent to "fuck off" on a live casted game at a major LAN tournament, would they? Hmm?
They would if said player won stuff and placed good.
Well I think he's definitely very good, and he seems to have the will and the potential to get better. I think if he had to be on any of those teams, it would have to be Reign or Mouz. They're the only two teams with players that are similarly skilled.
This is just going to be an endless shit fest in the comments with fanboys vs people who don't care, but jump into the discussion for the fuck of it.
I think the korean dominance will be so massive that serious teams will do whatever they can to get a hold of a Korean and put a hold on recruiting foreigners. I also highly doubt Destiny will show any good results in bigger tournaments but I guess we'll find out.
I think top teams would be stupid not to try and pick him up, if not just for the marketing value he brings, but you're going to have thousands of people waiting on his next big win. The fact is, he's an interesting character, he plays entertaining games and he's far, far more likable than a lot of top players.
Sponsors always love to be associated with people that spout racist slurs.
Sadly this, until he starts winning stuff no high end team would even consider him as a player. Does not matter if he does not want to be on a big team, he cant get on one to begin with.
This is pretty ridiculous, there are dozens of "no name" people on pro teams that haven't won anything notable, NASL and IPL were full of them. The problem with Destiny is that he has high expectations and high controversy. On one hand people will be expecting him to perform well on the other they will be waiting for him to perform poorly so they can jump on the opportunity of saying he didn't deserve to be signed. Meanwhile no names will just come and go with few even noticing.
Destiny cannot show up as a no name at a tournament even though his tournament track record deserves that, so he has big shoes to fill while people are anxiously waiting to point out how he sucks.
I can't see Destiny on a regular team due his poor marketability, unless he changes. In most likelihood he will pick up a new sponsor that likes his behavior and continue going independent.
I think that the only reason Destiny is able to get the results and beat the good players that he does is purely due to the fact that infestors are broken, however that being said, I don't think that the results in the GSPA should be counted even if he wasn't just abusing a broken unit comp, both due to the lag, time difference, and lack of reward (destiny was probably trying a lot harder than the koreans)
Since beta I followed destiny's stream now and then. And it was never because he is/was a great person or a great zerg (what i don't want to judge) but because he was always providing the absolut best stream. His quality was always superior to nearly 95% of any other streams. He played music many may like - I really enjoyed the famous ff7 soundtracks back in the days or todays anime ost. His volume / gamesound was always in great balance. Only thing that wasn't great back then was the loud keyboard sound but that was okay. So when there were some average players online or just not the guys who play your race (featured toss anywhere? yes but there are these times you know and zerg/terran may dunno what i am talking about since they have more active streamers ) i would turn in destiny stream. his stream always is the most enjoyable stream when your favorites are not streaming - since beta (back in livestream days).
So I don't care if he plays 1base roach allins like back then all day or if he uses mass infestor against everything all day. As long as he is playing and I hear good music, zerg voices all over the place and i am seeing my beloved game in very great qualitiy that's what i like :>
I don't doubt that if there were more guys so interested in getting perfect stream quality like him other streams would get many more viewers or he may even gets less. Orbs stream for example is very great too and ever was since beta.
I thought he didn't even want to be in a professional team based on the complexity incident. Doubt if most sponsors would be happy if their team recruited a bad publicity magnet either.
And his good results versus Koreans are probably a lot due to them having never seen anything like what Destiny does.
If I was running a North American tourney, then Destiny is one of the lower bracket type of players that I would be willing to stream. He has a loyal fanbase, and I think not realizing that is a mistake.
Anyone who attracts viewers is marketable on some level. It may not be in the traditional sense, but be creative.
For example, let's say I'm running a few streams of a tourney, then I'd be more than willing to show one of Destiny's bigger games on the second stream. Or I'd even be looking to immediately put it out a commentated replay, so you can get views on a highly demanded video before that interest dissipates. Or put together a quick a highlight video of the previous day's non-broadcasted games, featuring some lessor acclaimed, but players of high interest (eg. Destiny, TLO, etc).
Any small up and coming tourney should focus on these players who have a niche, yet loyal following. Forget building a merit based tourney, that's a failed business plan (ie. you don't build your first coffee shop next to Starbucks). Do invitationals, and focus on players of interest, while mixing in a few up and comers, that as a business you believe have a chance of generating future equity to promote.
I like watching Destiny's stream when there are no other high level zerg player. However, I absolutely hate his massive flame/insults/rage. Too often he sounds like a complete dumbass, an absolute cliche of the spoiled 16 years old who thinks he is a king at everything he does. That's a shame, and I think this will hold him back into his projet.
He seems quite professionnal during his coaching sessions, and had an interesting style. A more mature Destiny would be awesome, a Destiny without the crappy badmouth/insults/flame, and more insight about the game like he does sometimes.
On August 22 2011 22:46 lisward wrote: I've always been very critical about Destiny, despite being a regular viewer. I feel that's he's a valuable asset to Starcraft 2. He provides a service to us Starcraft fanboys, entertainment. His stream is among the most entertaining due to his quirkiness and his crude humour, which some may view as uncouth. Regardless, the viewers keep on growing, proving that he is a force to be reckoned with with regards to streamers.
Destiny is a man with a passion for Starcraft 2 who provides a service to the community and because of that he has my support. Kind of like Idra, while his 'childish' antics may gain him much hate throughout the community, his personality has gained him a huge following and in turn, helped spur on the growth of esports. I for one started watching competitive Starcraft 2 because of Idra ( I don't play at all), although I disagree with much of his balance arguments.
I feel that a lot of people in Team Liquid are too judgmental and harsh towards our streamers/pro-gamers some times. As much as Esports is a spectator sport, I get the feeling that many members think that pro-gamers owe something to them; People gave Sheth so much shit for switching teams, I saw so many "If you can't handle Korea you'll always be a failure." comments, there were even personal attacks (ranging from his weight to his character) towards Sheth for leaving (getting released) from his team. It's his choice and his own, and we should respect it.
Moreover, this thread is very unfair to Destiny; I don't think it's fair to make a thread just to throw a community member into the spotlight and judge him unprovoked (in my opinion this is always wrong), and the blatant disrespect that I see in this thread is just shocking and disappointing to me.
Shoot all the bluejays you want, if you can hit 'em, but remember it's a sin to kill a mockingbird
Personally I never watched his stream because of his language, although some of his rants about religion or abortion were pretty fun to listen to. He was always good to watch because of his mechanics that always gave him an advantage over most foes, especially during early age of Sc2 when progamer streamers were few and far between. Also he talked a lot during his play.
Then he started doing strange and crazy tactics with mixed results. Then he got into Root and became a much better and solid player. Then he started to play around with infestors (which is in character with his experimentation history) when everyone was doing ling/bling/muta in ZvT and figuring out early harass and allins in ZvP to counter toss lategame deathballs.
He became really good with this and fun to watch (I got really fed up with watching or playing standard zerg play). Then he started streaming from Korea server. This is when his streaming numbers jumped from 2000-3000 to 4000-7000. He is beating people of Korea server regularly. He doesn't get outclassed there. And his style is still more fun then most other Zergs. He has great potential and his time in Root moved him forward a LOT. Another team with good practice partners would make him a really great addition to that team.
On August 22 2011 22:25 Circos wrote: Why the hell would he not deserve to be on a top team? He puts just as much work in as any other pro, and I'm not one for fan-boy-ism but this seems ridiculous to deny that he has potential.
I think top teams would be stupid not to try and pick him up, if not just for the marketing value he brings, but you're going to have thousands of people waiting on his next big win. The fact is, he's an interesting character, he plays entertaining games and he's far, far more likable than a lot of top players.
Who swears in his stream and has an abusive personality.
Doesn't matter if you are amazing. No company will pay you money to represent them to then listen to you say racist terms on his stream.
Personally, i think he is skilled but will fall off soon.
Oh really? And I'm sure no company would ever support or endorse a player who tells his opponent to "fuck off" on a live casted game at a major LAN tournament, would they? Hmm?
They would if said player won stuff and placed good.
So you're saying that the only thing that matters with a player is how many tournament placings and wins he has. So then, why should personality even be taken into consideration in the first place?
On August 22 2011 22:25 Circos wrote: Why the hell would he not deserve to be on a top team? He puts just as much work in as any other pro, and I'm not one for fan-boy-ism but this seems ridiculous to deny that he has potential.
I think top teams would be stupid not to try and pick him up, if not just for the marketing value he brings, but you're going to have thousands of people waiting on his next big win. The fact is, he's an interesting character, he plays entertaining games and he's far, far more likable than a lot of top players.
Who swears in his stream and has an abusive personality.
Doesn't matter if you are amazing. No company will pay you money to represent them to then listen to you say racist terms on his stream.
Personally, i think he is skilled but will fall off soon.
Oh really? And I'm sure no company would ever support or endorse a player who tells his opponent to "fuck off" on a live casted game at a major LAN tournament, would they? Hmm?
They would if said player won stuff and placed good.
So you're saying that the only thing that matters with a player is how many tournament placings and wins he has. So then, why should personality even be taken into consideration in the first place?
No, im saying preformance plays a huge part, not the only thing that matters obviously.
I think top teams would be stupid not to try and pick him up, if not just for the marketing value he brings, but you're going to have thousands of people waiting on his next big win. The fact is, he's an interesting character, he plays entertaining games and he's far, far more likable than a lot of top players.
Sponsors always love to be associated with people that spout racist slurs.
Sadly this, until he starts winning stuff no high end team would even consider him as a player. Does not matter if he does not want to be on a big team, he cant get on one to begin with.
He was on one and left Complexity. I'm done reading this thread. Just keep your eyes open for blatantly wrong shit TLers.....
I was under the impression he got released. Was that whole contract issue and him not apparently reading it properly or something.
Edit: Yeah he broke his contract and got booted.
Go read what actually happened dude. He signed in order to get the rest of the ROOT guys in before some deadline and regretted it immediately and reached an agreement to be let out of it.
Greetings, To be honest, i am somehow skeptical to this kind of posts regarding Destiny. I say skeptical because this is a great opportunity for the haters to bash him and attempt to flame just based on Destiny's personality making rants about his racial shouts etc.. They are just stupid and ignorant, because if they saw Destiny's stream for a while, they where able to realize what really is his oppinion regarding any matter that they whine about. It makes me sad that people are often driven to a certain type of personality in order to be successful. This is where Destiny stands out, as he represents a unique type of personality, making him genuine. Just to point out, friends of mine that are getting into starcraft 2 are picking zerg because of Destiny. I showed them his stream and they got really addicted to it, both because of his personality and play skill. Considering his current game-play my opinion is that he should keep doing his thing although some versatility could be good, so he can prevent further meta-gaming in tournaments that can hurt him from reaching higher results. The strongest point in his game play is definitely his late game. If he can manage the early stages of a game, he will improve alot, and i am sure he will! Well, going back to the OP, EGIncontrol stated something about exploiting and accusing Destiny to only beat HUK through Infestors, as they are imbalanced broken unit. This is one of the most stupid shit i have ever heard. As someone wise said before, its just clever use of game mechanics. And EGIncontrol doesn't know about it, as his ego is as big as his size.
If you just look at the skill of Destiny and compare it to the lower tier of EG (for example)
HE is better then strifecro HE is better then LZgamer HE is on pair with Machine.
So if you only look at it like that then it is a good pickup by EG. He is also someone who can do well vs anyone in a teamleague. Mainly due to his unique playstyle.
EG is somewhat known as the dark side and by recruiting Destiny that would fade a bit. It would also increase the publicity of EG.
The only thing I can see EG do is to wait out the contracts with the dead-weight in the team (Axlav, Strifecro, LZ) and then not re-sign with the mentioned players.
On August 22 2011 23:25 ArhK wrote: I like watching Destiny's stream when there are no other high level zerg player. However, I absolutely hate his massive flame/insults/rage. Too often he sounds like a complete dumbass, an absolute cliche of the spoiled 16 years old who thinks he is a king at everything he does. That's a shame, and I think this will hold him back into his projet.
He seems quite professionnal during his coaching sessions, and had an interesting style. A more mature Destiny would be awesome, a Destiny without the crappy badmouth/insults/flame, and more insight about the game like he does sometimes.
Alot of those things that you don't like about him (nor do I), is what makes him popular for his subset of fans. I'm not sure he should give those things up, at this point in his career. I'm thinking it's advantageous in a business sense to continue being true to himself. Although he may be thinking vice versa; in that he believes he should be true to himself, and has realized an opportunity to sustain himself has come with that.
On August 22 2011 23:44 LostFaction wrote: Greetings, To be honest, i am somehow skeptical to this kind of posts regarding Destiny. I say skeptical because this is a great opportunity for the haters to bash him and attempt to flame just based on Destiny's personality making rants about his racial shouts etc.. They are just stupid and ignorant, because if they saw Destiny's stream for a while, they where able to realize what really is his oppinion regarding any matter that they whine about. It makes me sad that people are often driven to a certain type of personality in order to be successful. This is where Destiny stands out, as he represents a unique type of personality, making him genuine. Just to point out, friends of mine that are getting into starcraft 2 are picking zerg because of Destiny. I showed them his stream and they got really addicted to it, both because of his personality and play skill. Considering his current game-play my opinion is that he should keep doing his thing although some versatility could be good, so he can prevent further meta-gaming in tournaments that can hurt him from reaching higher results. The strongest point in his game play is definitely his late game. If he can manage the early stages of a game, he will improve alot, and i am sure he will! Well, going back to the OP, EGIncontrol stated something about exploiting and accusing Destiny to only beat HUK through Infestors, as they are imbalanced broken unit. This is one of the most stupid shit i have ever heard. As someone wise said before, its just clever use of game mechanics. And EGIncontrol doesn't know about it, as his ego is as big as his size.
This post is the epitome of the type of fans that Destiny has. Isn't there a business opportunity here for someone to capitalize on?
On August 22 2011 23:44 LostFaction wrote: Greetings, To be honest, i am somehow skeptical to this kind of posts regarding Destiny. I say skeptical because this is a great opportunity for the haters to bash him and attempt to flame just based on Destiny's personality making rants about his racial shouts etc.. They are just stupid and ignorant, because if they saw Destiny's stream for a while, they where able to realize what really is his oppinion regarding any matter that they whine about. It makes me sad that people are often driven to a certain type of personality in order to be successful. This is where Destiny stands out, as he represents a unique type of personality, making him genuine. Just to point out, friends of mine that are getting into starcraft 2 are picking zerg because of Destiny. I showed them his stream and they got really addicted to it, both because of his personality and play skill. Considering his current game-play my opinion is that he should keep doing his thing although some versatility could be good, so he can prevent further meta-gaming in tournaments that can hurt him from reaching higher results. The strongest point in his game play is definitely his late game. If he can manage the early stages of a game, he will improve alot, and i am sure he will! Well, going back to the OP, EGIncontrol stated something about exploiting and accusing Destiny to only beat HUK through Infestors, as they are imbalanced broken unit. This is one of the most stupid shit i have ever heard. As someone wise said before, its just clever use of game mechanics. And EGIncontrol doesn't know about it, as his ego is as big as his size.
This post is the epitome of the type of fans that Destiny has. Isn't there a business opportunity here for someone to capitalize on?
Yes, and that post shows a civil, smart person that brings across good arguments unlike couple of flamers I saw in this topic.
That's great. Too bad I for one don't care all that much for what Mr. Garfield has to say.
The criteria he outlined should be a no brainer to anyone who has managed or recruited players before. Show matches should definitely be taken with a grain of salt. With that said, if he truly used this criteria to rate his players then a lot of them would score relatively low points as well. Guys like Machine, Strifeco, axslav have been around for a long time during the BW days, but never really amounted to anything other than playing for their nations. Their results mostly come from clan wars and nation wars.
With that said, Destiny has made some strides, but he still has a long way to go and yes winning a tournament with good prize money will definitely put the spotlight on you (come on now). There's nothing really new here. Destiny has a few perks that could rub people the wrong way, but he still has a big fan base. I would rate him no higher or lower than a few members on the EG team atm to be honest.
I can see why many companies would pass on him due to his image and personality. Furthermore, I don't really see him as a team player. This is very detrimental to any pro team.
Left out a few things when it comes to recruitment as well:
- Coach ability and growth. This ties into being a team player. - Motivation and persistence.
I know a big fanbase and popularity all around can bring revenue in some way to a team, but picking up a player that doesn't show consistent results (in tourneys) tarnishes the reputation a lot. Most teams want their name to be associate with the best of the best and picking up a player solely on his/her fanbase is not the way to do it.
No. Saying words that have no meaning to you is in fact meaningless and low-brow comedy (if you can even call it that) at it's finest. It's as if you have Tourette's Syndrome while having no tolerance towards others and it embraces silly stereotypes. When people get mad, they say all sorts of stuff they don't necessarily mean. Hence T.S. They cannot really hold it back. -.-
This has been addressed many times including from S.B. himself. He does it for himself and whomever cares to watch him, which is fine.
I can understand why some companies would stray away from him however. I'm sure he'll have no problems finding sponsorship, even if it's something similar to what Grubby has going for him (in the form of personal sponsorship).
Imo he's maybe good enough for a team like Sixjax, but he's not good enough for a major team like dignitas or EG. And when all your practice comes from laddering, and all you do is making infestors, you probably won't get far. Maybe he has the potential though.
well not all of EG's players r better than destiny imo u sound like EG would be winning everything but they get dominated by the koreans like everyone else so i see no reason why he couldnt join EG
Given the amount of viewers he brings in for Twitch/Justin, they should approach him and workout some sponsorship with them so they can take a fraction of all the ad revenue he generates between tournaments and help him with travel expenses.
I'm sure the cost of helping 1 person travel is well within the budget of JustinTV
1) He won't really have any clanmates, he is still good friends with a lot of ROOT it seems, and i regularly see Complexity members playing alongside him. I'm sure he can get practice partners for specific matchups before tournaments if he wants/needs to.
2) He has said he doesn't like to lie for products in a recent interview, and gave his keyboard as an example vs. IdrA, rest of EG and their constant praising of Kingston HyperX memory allows them to play SC2. But he can, and I surely can guess that he can attribute his monthly income to Justin.tv.
I really don't care about him being bm on stream, it goes with his enthousiasm of winning the game. As a long time gamer, i know that i've been yelling shit about my opponents almost each time i won a hard game. Playing wow arenas, when you managed to kill the healer, all your team would start bitching about the dead healer because you've been spending your last 20 minutes trying to kill him, that's part of the winning process imo But what is less nice is bming the other player, as long as you only talk to yourself out loud it's np!
More on the topic, destiny could be a great player, waiting for his results, but idc about his bm as long as it doesn't affect the other player
I disagree with EG's original assessment. Destiny is popular because of his personality; criteria 3&4 are connected in that regard. That is moot however, because Destiny has stated he does not want to be on a team.
I feel bad for incontrol after losing to a player he said was one fifth of Huk's skill.
well if u consider incontrol a good player then u dont understand the game anyway imo he does a lot for the community but he's far away from being a top player
I honestly think Destiny is good enough to do decently on any team. Outside of HuK/IdrA, Destiny is easily as good as every other EG member. Literally any foreigner team could legitimately throw him on their team. Even though Destiny hasn't posted any major tournament wins or placements, such as MLG I don't think that necessarily matters.
How many of the EG players would be placing high at MLG if they didn't get their top placements before Koreans started showing up? iNcontroL has gotten crushed every tourney since Dallas (no Korean players). If he hadn't gotten top 4 before the best players in the world started showing up then I doubt he would have any impressive results to speak of either. Perhaps if Destiny was as good back then as he is now then he could have also gotten a free ride to the pool play for the rest of the MLG season.
Anyways, I think the bigger issue for Destiny is the way he carries himself. He doesn't want to censor himself and for better or worse that makes it difficult for a team to want to pick him up. He's more of a liability than an asset from that perspective. I wish him all the luck in the world and hope that he does well in tournaments going forward so some of the haters shut up but at the same time I don't think that winning an MLG or two would magically make teams want to pick him up unless he can change his perspective on how he handles himself in the public eye when he's representing an entity larger than himself.
On August 23 2011 00:32 Hollow27 wrote: I disagree with EG's original assessment. Destiny is popular because of his personality; criteria 3&4 are connected in that regard. That is moot however, because Destiny has stated he does not want to be on a team.
I feel bad for incontrol after losing to a player he said was one fifth of Huk's skill.
He's just going to say "lol infestor op" like he has been saying.
On August 23 2011 00:32 Hollow27 wrote: I disagree with EG's original assessment. Destiny is popular because of his personality; criteria 3&4 are connected in that regard. That is moot however, because Destiny has stated he does not want to be on a team.
I feel bad for incontrol after losing to a player he said was one fifth of Huk's skill.
He's just going to say "lol infestor op" like he has been saying.
but when protoss is imba he tells idra to shut up :DDD
back to the topic. ye i do feel alex under valued destiny, especially since this is the team with idra on it :D i dont think calling someone a nigger is any worse than calling someone a waste of life, but there you go.
On August 23 2011 00:25 rawrss wrote: If anything, I think it should be
TwitchtvDestiny
Given the amount of viewers he brings in for Twitch/Justin, they should approach him and workout some sponsorship with them so they can take a fraction of all the ad revenue he generates between tournaments and help him with travel expenses.
I'm sure the cost of helping 1 person travel is well within the budget of JustinTV
1) He won't really have any clanmates, he is still good friends with a lot of ROOT it seems, and i regularly see Complexity members playing alongside him. I'm sure he can get practice partners for specific matchups before tournaments if he wants/needs to.
2) He has said he doesn't like to lie for products in a recent interview, and gave his keyboard as an example vs. IdrA, rest of EG and their constant praising of Kingston HyperX memory allows them to play SC2. But he can, and I surely can guess that he can attribute his monthly income to Justin.tv.
3) Win-win for JustinTv/Destiny
They already take a fraction of his ad revenue, its how justin.tv/twitch.tv makes money. Not to mention he already gets payed a fairly decent wage from them.
On August 23 2011 00:15 drlame wrote: I know a big fanbase and popularity all around can bring revenue in some way to a team, but picking up a player that doesn't show consistent results (in tourneys) tarnishes the reputation a lot. Most teams want their name to be associate with the best of the best and picking up a player solely on his/her fanbase is not the way to do it.
Then I guess, EG should get rid of most of their team and Liquid could say thank you to Tyler and Haypro...
Destiny is caustic and turns a lot of people off. In addition to just not wanting to be associated with his philosphy, many teams will have a legitimate concern about anti-fans. I, for one, root for complexity more often for not putting up with Destiny's rude language and casual insults.
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: Destiny is caustic and turns a lot of people off. In addition to just not wanting to be associated with his philosphy, many teams will have a legitimate concern about anti-fans. I, for one, root for complexity more often for not putting up with Destiny's rude language and casual insults.
I'd love to ask you (and people who share this opinion), what do you think of IdrA?
Why not ask the man himself? It's not like he's some divine deity who do does not grant audience with the likes of him! I'm sure he's humble and clever enough to know his own value.
I've liked some of his streaming, but at other times I just find him to be very self-righteous and preachy.
He's very opinionated, and I find I often disagree with him even when I agree with him, because he just takes his points way too far and extreme.
In terms of skill level...ya, he's good enough to be on a team...but he's chosen not to be on one. He was on a team, and that team got taken over, and he was supposed to go over, but he just broke the contract instead.
He's not a team player type guy, and that's fine...but its really his decision not to be on one. And he's simply not good enough for anyone to want to bend rules for him.
No one would put up with IdrA if he wasn't so good, and you've got Destiny with a much more offensive and objectionable personality than him.
Same thing goes for a CombatEx type guy, no one cares, he's too big a liability to bother with unless he was winning GSLs
It's hard to actually give a skill number for the guy though without an objective scale. The top scale is Easy if you're Making NesTea a 10
But then If you say MC, MMA, PuMa, MVP are like 9s
HuK, Hong-Un, MKP maybe 8s...
Really depends on your frame of reference, I think Destiny would basically get killed by any Code A Korean, and I wouldn't say like, IM_Yoda ranks as a 7 or something.
But if you consider a 1 to be like the worst tier of players who are still Pro players..maybe Destiny's a 2 or 3? But on that Scale I'd also have Machine as like a 3 or Incontrol as a 4. Kind of in that 'Half decent for North America...never gonna win anything though' type bracket.
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: Destiny is caustic and turns a lot of people off. In addition to just not wanting to be associated with his philosphy, many teams will have a legitimate concern about anti-fans. I, for one, root for complexity more often for not putting up with Destiny's rude language and casual insults.
Are you a prude?
Through streaming, we get a direct view at mainly adolescent and maturing individuals in the comfort of their own space. If we had athletes of other sports with home video type material, I can assure you that there might be some pretty offensive stuff to some people contained within. Not to mention that of on-field, on-ice, on-court verbal exchanges from professional games, many of such occurrences would be abhorring to many people. In fact, ask a lot of people who have been to sports events and had the ability to be within earshot of the athletes, and they'll tell you the kind of stuff that goes on during a game.
Now contrast that with our sport, and whatever may be contained on streams or eSports shows, there is very little true BM that extends into live events and most players handle their matches, dealings with players and interviews quite well; Destiny included.
I think we as a society/community are a little more sensitive to some things, and less towards others, and it's because we as a community have direct access to those that are quasi-"celebrities." It doesn't put those players at any less of a standpoint as other sports and their athletes however. To be honest, if there were some organizations and companies that would discredit a person over their ability to express themselves, I'd certainly like to know.
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: Destiny is caustic and turns a lot of people off. In addition to just not wanting to be associated with his philosphy, many teams will have a legitimate concern about anti-fans. I, for one, root for complexity more often for not putting up with Destiny's rude language and casual insults.
I'd love to ask you (and people who share this opinion), what do you think of IdrA?
He's a bit of a whiner, but his BM also has a reputation of being mostly for show. Reputation for getting along great with other players off-camera. And since I don't have a problem with profanity, only the incessant balance whining bothers me. I also wish Idra would set up a damn flank more than once in a blue moon. Mostly, it's just fun to watch him play.
Destiny has a holier-than-thou attitude and has said on places like State of the Game no one should take offense at being insulted, that he's actually improving society, etc. Frankly, his pseudo-linguistic justifications are worse than any one offensive statement to me. It's because of those interviews, not his stream (I don't watch), that I dislike him. He also doesn't seem to switch off the talk-over-others aggression, unlike Idra.
However, I'm fully willing to note that since I don't watch Destiny's stream, I have a smaller sample-size of unpleasantness to draw from.
Staying on-topic for this thread, outside PR opportunities are a big consideration for teams. As a team manager, you'd have to wonder if Destiny would promote a product he found some little complaint about.
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: Destiny is caustic and turns a lot of people off. In addition to just not wanting to be associated with his philosphy, many teams will have a legitimate concern about anti-fans. I, for one, root for complexity more often for not putting up with Destiny's rude language and casual insults.
I'd love to ask you (and people who share this opinion), what do you think of IdrA?
I am not a fan of Idra, but what Destiny does on a regular basis is much worse than anything Idra has said, i really don't know why it is so hard for Destiny fans to understand this, the guy uses homophobic and racist slurs on his stream, the fact that 7000 people think its cool to say the N and F words does not mean it is ok among most people to use that kind of language.
Even if he was the best player in the world, no major team would want to be associated with a guy like that.
I am fully aware that Destiny probably means no ill with his words, but the fact that he thinks that black people shouldn't be offended by the N word, just shows that he is ignorant.
Destiny should continue doing what he wants to do, if he can make a living streaming that is good for him, but everyone apart from the hardcore Destiny fans know exactly why no major teams are interested in him..
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: Destiny is caustic and turns a lot of people off. In addition to just not wanting to be associated with his philosphy, many teams will have a legitimate concern about anti-fans. I, for one, root for complexity more often for not putting up with Destiny's rude language and casual insults.
I'd love to ask you (and people who share this opinion), what do you think of IdrA?
He's a bit of a whiner, but his BM also has a reputation of being mostly for show. Reputation for getting along great with other players off-camera. And since I don't have a problem with profanity, only the incessant balance whining bothers me. I also wish Idra would set up a damn flank more than once in a blue moon. Mostly, it's just fun to watch him play.
Destiny has a holier-than-thou attitude and has said on places like State of the Game no one should take offense at being insulted, that he's actually improving society, etc. Frankly, his pseudo-linguistic justifications are worse than any one offensive statement to me. It's because of those interviews, not his stream (I don't watch), that I dislike him. He also doesn't seem to switch off the talk-over-others aggression, unlike Idra.
However, I'm fully willing to note that since I don't watch Destiny's stream, I have a smaller sample-size of unpleasantness to draw from.
Staying on-topic for this thread, outside PR opportunities are a big consideration for teams. As a team manager, you'd have to wonder if Destiny would promote a product he found some little complaint about.
He doesn't have a holier than thou attitude, he has a "Being offended is pointless," attitude. Search for "Destiny argues with Nate" if you have 10 minutes to spare, it was an interesting video.
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: Destiny is caustic and turns a lot of people off. In addition to just not wanting to be associated with his philosphy, many teams will have a legitimate concern about anti-fans. I, for one, root for complexity more often for not putting up with Destiny's rude language and casual insults.
Are you a prude?
Through streaming, we get a direct view at mainly adolescent and maturing individuals in the comfort of their own space. If we had athletes of other sports with home video type material, I can assure you that there might be some pretty offensive stuff to some people contained within. Not to mention that of on-field, on-ice, on-court verbal exchanges from professional games, many of such occurrences would be abhorring to many people. In fact, ask a lot of people who have been to sports events and had the ability to be within earshot of the athletes, and they'll tell you the kind of stuff that goes on during a game.
Now contrast that with our sport, and whatever may be contained on streams or eSports shows, there is very little true BM that extends into live events and most players handle their matches, dealings with players and interviews quite well; Destiny included.
I think we as a society/community are a little more sensitive to some things, and less towards others, and it's because we as a community have direct access to those that are quasi-"celebrities." It doesn't put those players at any less of a standpoint as other sports and their athletes however. To be honest, if there were some organizations and companies that would discredit a person over their ability to express themselves, I'd certainly like to know.
Am I a prude? No.
Are other people also irritating and immature? Yes. I don't care if other athletes are though: I don't watch other sports.
Does SC2 have little true BM? Yes, the community is relatively well-mannered. One of the reasons I like it. Destiny drags that down a bit. One of the reasons I don't like him. He also claims to not drag that down a bit, the larger reason I don't like him.
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: Destiny is caustic and turns a lot of people off. In addition to just not wanting to be associated with his philosphy, many teams will have a legitimate concern about anti-fans. I, for one, root for complexity more often for not putting up with Destiny's rude language and casual insults.
I'd love to ask you (and people who share this opinion), what do you think of IdrA?
He's a bit of a whiner, but his BM also has a reputation of being mostly for show. Reputation for getting along great with other players off-camera. And since I don't have a problem with profanity, only the incessant balance whining bothers me. I also wish Idra would set up a damn flank more than once in a blue moon. Mostly, it's just fun to watch him play.
Destiny has a holier-than-thou attitude and has said on places like State of the Game no one should take offense at being insulted, that he's actually improving society, etc. Frankly, his pseudo-linguistic justifications are worse than any one offensive statement to me. It's because of those interviews, not his stream (I don't watch), that I dislike him. He also doesn't seem to switch off the talk-over-others aggression, unlike Idra.
However, I'm fully willing to note that since I don't watch Destiny's stream, I have a smaller sample-size of unpleasantness to draw from.
Staying on-topic for this thread, outside PR opportunities are a big consideration for teams. As a team manager, you'd have to wonder if Destiny would promote a product he found some little complaint about.
He doesn't have a holier than thou attitude, he has a "Being offended is pointless," attitude. Search for "Destiny argues with Nate" if you have 10 minutes to spare, it was an interesting video.
He did have a holier than thou attitude on his state of the game interview. And his logic of "no matter what I say it's not offensive" was downright stupid.
Edit: In general, I agree with everything Oasx posted. Looks like he has a better knowledge of Destiny's stream, too. Well said.
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: I am fully aware that Destiny probably means no ill with his words, but the fact that he thinks that black people shouldn't be offended by the N word, just shows that he is ignorant.
We take a variety of factors into account when recruiting, including:
1) Major LAN/Online Tournament Results 2) Work Ethic/Natural Talent/Potential for Improvement 3) Marketability/Personality 4) Established Fan Base
I think that Destiny is quite strong in category 4, and probably slightly above average in category 2. In categories 1 and 3, I'd give him very low ratings.
I agree that his style is innovative, and he should be applauded for developing such a huge fan base and streaming following. However, he currently has no impressive results to speak of in my eyes, really (practice games, show matches, and mid-tier tournaments just don't matter, unfortunately). Also, his image and personality really hold him back from becoming more of a mainstream star.
I think that if he can post an impressive result at a large tournament, it'll turn some heads.
Tossing in my two cents:
If I had to rate Destiny on each of those four categories, I'd place him similarly to Alex (listed in order of Destiny's strengths to his weaknesses).
**One of the strongest in Category 4 (from my perspective, the only NA players that clearly draw more viewers (for any event) than Destiny are - notably - IdrA and HuK).
**I'd also place him above average in Category 2. He definitely puts in as much, or more, time than the vast majority of progamers. The quality of how he spends his time is somewhat debatable, though. He could benefit from grinding out more focused practice games -- intentional work on specific aspects of his play, like reps of early-game ZvT for instance.
**In Category 3, I'd disagree with Alex's assessment that Destiny's personality effectively makes him unmarketable (or however his comment should be interpreted precisely). Rather, I think the specific strengths/weakness of Destiny in this category are fundamentally disjoint from the typical strengths and weaknesses of the typical public figure. That is, it's hard to discount the implicit, underlying causes of his strong fan base (which I do NOT believe is due to some misguided "shock" factor, etc).
The fact of the matter is, Destiny is a more genuine human being than a number of "public figures" in the SC2 scene. That counts for more than I think Alex is giving due. And frankly, if you can successfully market IdrA's personality, then you can market Destiny's personality.
**Undeniably, Destiny's greatest weakness is in his major tournament results. But I have to draw an (apt) comparison to a number of EG's less successful players here. How do Destiny's results really compare to, say, StrifeCo's results? Or Axslav's?
Even InControl, in my opinion, has less potential to post good tournament results than Destiny. Sure, InControl has placed higher than Destiny in a series of MLG's, but I can't help but believe that's due to InControl's Championship Bracket placement. After all, what - really - is the lowest place you can get at MLG if you're seeded into the Championship Bracket? I seriously believe this is a case of the red carpet being rolled out for one player, and the other getting short-changed and having to overcome greater obstacles in order to achieve the same reward. Does anyone really believe InControl would survive an MLG Open Bracket?
---
Long story short: Destiny has massive investment potential, from the perspective of a team manager, that I believe is being overlooked in Alex's assessment. If someone with EG's resources approached Destiny with some creativity in their management and marketing of him, I can't imagine they wouldn't be able to make a huge payoff.
Offense is a choice. Stop making it cause you're just looking for attention. The only way someone's comments are degrading is if you allow them to be. This community still has a lot of growing up to do.
Those are Destiny's opinions about language if anyone cares. Also, has stated on his stream multiple times that he does not want to join a team. + Show Spoiler +
**In Category 3, I'd disagree with Alex's assessment that Destiny's personality effectively makes him unmarketable (or however his comment should be interpreted precisely). Rather, I think the specific strengths/weakness of Destiny in this category are fundamentally disjoint from the typical strengths and weaknesses of the typical public figure. That is, it's hard to discount the implicit, underlying causes of his strong fan base (which I do NOT believe is due to some misguided "shock" factor, etc).
The fact of the matter is, Destiny is a more genuine human being than a number of "public figures" in the SC2 scene. That counts for more than I think Alex is giving due. And frankly, if you can successfully market IdrA's personality, then you can market Destiny's personality.
I think here though you've got to account for Destiny not wanting to BE marketable. You can have a lot fans but still have no marketability for a team. Imagine Alex trying to pitch this guy to his sponsors.
"Hello Pepsi, We've got this great team..there's a husky guy who's on a few talk shows who plays Protoss, there's a zerg guy who BMs opponents and really speaks his mind about game balance and is quite a character..oh and we've got Destiny, he's an anti-corporate communist who thinks gays and blacks should shut up while he uses slurs against them...so guys, how 'bout it?"
He just would not allow himself to be marketed. He'd be just as likely to pick up a microphone and tell everyone why SteelSeries sucks. He's better off in the type of thing he's doing now, he's doing just fine making money that way.
On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote: I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion?
Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5
Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up.
Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late.
You know what I find funny though? I never see Destiny BM'ing people unless they're being dicks to him. Then he'll give them a shitstorm, sure, but he never really starts it himself - not from my viewing experience anyway.. I wonder if people who dislike him actually know that.
But then again, I for one fucking hate the whole manner-thing. Come on, this is a competitive sport - and competition without emotion is nothing. You can win with grace, sure, but everyone spamming "BM" at the sight of a quirky remark is so fucking ridiculous.
On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote: I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion?
Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5
Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up.
Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late.
I didn't realize that the OP did this, I gotta agree with everything you just said.
Lets just look at Idra vs desRow from this weekends TLOpen to see how "nice" Idra is. I haven't even seen that level of BM from Destiny in a long while and I really cannot remember last time I heard him say nigger or faggot.
Those are Destiny's opinions about language if anyone cares. Also, has stated on his stream multiple times that he does not want to join a team. + Show Spoiler +
On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote: I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion?
Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5
Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up.
Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late.
It's really not too late to nuke the thread if so.
I've had PM conversations in a similar vein where the person has asked for the discussion to be kept confidential, and I respected that. If Alex wanted it kept private, I'm sure he would have said as much in so many words, yes?
First of all, of course, Destiny is not on ROOT nor does ROOT exist anymore.
"Rate a player's skill" this is impossible to do. What do you rate Nestea, is he a 10 (perfect player? best player?) What about MC? Tarson? Everybody is going to have vastly different opinions on how a rating system works. If a 5 is the average SC2 player then Destiny is a 9-10. If a 5 if the average code A Korean then Destiny is a 3. You can't get valuable results from a poll like this.
Also, it's all moot because Destiny is not a pro SC2 player at the moment, he is a pro streamer, and he makes more money doing that than he would if he became a pro player (according to him). If all those ladder hours were hours spent in a team house training, I have no doubt he could go places. But that's not where his priorities lie, so let's give the issue a rest.
**In Category 3, I'd disagree with Alex's assessment that Destiny's personality effectively makes him unmarketable (or however his comment should be interpreted precisely). Rather, I think the specific strengths/weakness of Destiny in this category are fundamentally disjoint from the typical strengths and weaknesses of the typical public figure. That is, it's hard to discount the implicit, underlying causes of his strong fan base (which I do NOT believe is due to some misguided "shock" factor, etc).
The fact of the matter is, Destiny is a more genuine human being than a number of "public figures" in the SC2 scene. That counts for more than I think Alex is giving due. And frankly, if you can successfully market IdrA's personality, then you can market Destiny's personality.
I think here though you've got to account for Destiny not wanting to BE marketable. You can have a lot fans but still have no marketability for a team. Imagine Alex trying to pitch this guy to his sponsors.
"Hello Pepsi, We've got this great team..there's a husky guy who's on a few talk shows who plays Protoss, there's a zerg guy who BMs opponents and really speaks his mind about game balance and is quite a character..oh and we've got Destiny, he's an anti-corporate communist who thinks gays and blacks should shut up while he uses slurs against them...so guys, how 'bout it?"
He just would not allow himself to be marketed. He'd be just as likely to pick up a microphone and tell everyone why SteelSeries sucks. He's better off in the type of thing he's doing now, he's doing just fine making money that way.
If Destiny was as unmarketable as you suggest, then Complexity wouldn't have picked him up in the first place.
And speaking of, Destiny leaving Complexity had nothing to do with marketability. It had to do with Destiny and Complexity not being a good fit for one another. Building the right relationship plays extremely strongly into this, and there's no reason why one couldn't be built with Destiny by a prospective team.
Also - anti-corporate communist? Not sure how seriously to take you. >_> Of course he has principled views about language and the use of language, but that belies how nice of a guy he is. Have you ever, once, seen him be bigoted towards an actual person? (Answer: No.)
IdrA has a worse track record in this department than Destiny. The only way you could believe otherwise is by listening to what people say about Destiny rather than listening to what Destiny says.
Destiny is a lot better than a good deal of the people who hate on him. Incontrol is a good example of this, Incontrol needs to shut the hell up about Destiny if he wants people to continue to view him professionally, claims like, "Infestors help him beat players five times better than him" just make him look stupid as well. I think everyone realizes just how over the top Infestors would need to be to be that good. They may or may not be imbalanced, but they aren't that imbalanced.
Then you look at his stream viewership, people talking about things such as anti-fans (This would still get you viewership of tournaments, by the way, if an anti-fan doesn't have someone they like to watch they'd be much more willing to watch someone they hate and hope they lose. Just like other sports, for example, I enjoy watching Lebron James lose more than a random team) and they also talk about how his stream turns people off. It turns prudes off, that's it, and you want to know how many prudes there are? Not many, according to his viewer numbers. Sponsorship may be a different issue but saying that his personality is anything but magnetic regarding viewership is just flat out wrong. Any team that wants more viewership should pick up Destiny, it would increase the viewership of their team as a whole, not just by adding the viewers from Destiny on Destinys stream but likely these viewers would spill over to watch Destinys new teammates as well.
Finally, his language/BM. If you look at just how long Destiny has streamed his BM comparative to the amount of time he plays is not high at all, in fact just about every other stream I watch save a few (Such as Whitera, Lz) have more BM on average I'd say. His language, not so much the cursing but the "other stuff" isn't a big deal to me, I can't speak for everyone but I will say this if language for languages sake offends you then I have a problem with how think about things at a base level. It should be the intent behind the language that offends you if anything. Of course now a days everyone is politically correct. INTENT people.
On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote: I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion?
Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5
Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up.
Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late.
It's really not too late to nuke the thread if so.
I've had PM conversations in a similar vein where the person has asked for the discussion to be kept confidential, and I respected that. If Alex wanted it kept private, I'm sure he would have said as much in so many words, yes?
Not everyone can stay on top of reminding every single person they talk to, to keep their private consersations just that. If a question was asked, and answered through a private medium, it is proper etiquette to ask permission before releasing the contents. Then again, you wanted to argue against his conclusions, so I can understand why you didn't ask.
His series versus iNcontroL was pretty pathetic... All it showed was that iNcontroL had no handle on Destiny's style at all... TBH, in small army engagements and overall macro iNcontroL was superior... he just had no answer whatsoever to Destiny's playstyle. People say iNcontroL didn't win a real macro game... but it wasn't that his macro was worse than Destiny's in the slightest, it was simply that Destiny's way of playing is just so overwhelmingly different what was is done by most Zerg players.
Destiny is also famously weak against strong armed early/midgame pushes... which is why he never gets to groups in the two MLG's he's been to. iNcontroL is really all style kinda player... but even then, Destiny's lategame ZvP is just unbearably awesomely good...
I am not sure why so many people find Destiny offensive and ill-mannered. I never really knew who he was until I started watching his stream a while ago. He is an entertaining and genuine character - he never goes out of his way to insult people from what I have seen. Sometimes he would fire back when being insulted but I have never seen him respond overly aggressive or rashly. Yes, he is very opinionated. So what? I prefer his strong character over someone who's boring. I don't have to agree with everything he says. That doesn't bother me at all.
As for his marketability, he is one of the best out there. Unmarketable because of his strong personality? No way, that's exactly what makes someone marketable. His huge fan base and marketability are directly related. Hate him or love him, he is a character in the community with a giant fan-base. Wherever he goes, he will generate a lot of attention and bring a large crowd of fans with him. People will continue to watch his stream, follow his matches and have conversations about him. Not many players in the community can do that.
On to his skill levell, I rate him about a 6. It obviously depends heavily on the scale itself so this is an extremely subjective rating. However, I believe that he is better than every single person on the current EG roster except IdrA, HuK, PuMa and maybe DeMuslim (he is underrated). If you saw Destiny's series against Incontrol, you could clearly tell that Destiny was a more sound player. Blame it on whatever you want, Destiny outplayed Incontrol in every macro and non-cheese games.
I don't really care if he joins a team or not. I like the dude and hope he keeps improving until one day he can get a title under his name.
On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote: I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion?
Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5
Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up.
Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late.
It's really not too late to nuke the thread if so.
I've had PM conversations in a similar vein where the person has asked for the discussion to be kept confidential, and I respected that. If Alex wanted it kept private, I'm sure he would have said as much in so many words, yes?
Not everyone can stay on top of reminding every single person they talk to, to keep their private consersations just that. If a question was asked, and answered through a private medium, it is proper etiquette to ask permission before releasing the contents. Then again, you wanted to argue against his conclusions, so I can understand why you didn't ask.
In two parts:
Italicized parts: If it's such a sensitive issue that you'd be upset if people discuss it, why not ask that it be kept private? I'm not really convinced this is even that big of a deal anyway. Alex expressed some fairly middle-of-the-road, non-inflammatory, realistic opinions.
Non-italicized part: Why I didn't ask? Are you confused? I didn't start this thread. Moreover, did you even read what I wrote? I agreed with Alex more than disagreed with him. I think Alex's opinions and my opinions on the topic are like 90% in agreement.
On August 23 2011 02:20 ReTr0[p.S] wrote: He is a comedic entertainer, more or less like a clown. People will be entertained, but no one will ever take him seriously.
He doesn't need to be taken seriously when he beats you, or others who hate on him including players who continue to profess to being much better players than him. Just saying.
With upmost respect, there are many people in the world who use vulgar language daily in life and that hinders them in their profession. Same goes for Starcraft 2.
On August 23 2011 02:21 birdkicker wrote: With upmost respect, there are many people in the world who use vulgar language daily in life and that hinders them in their profession. Same goes for Starcraft 2.
I can't help but think this comment is more personally derogatory than anything Destiny has ever said.
Edit: Of course, you edited your comment to clean it up before I posted mine. Of course.
On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote: I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion?
Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5
Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up.
Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late.
It's really not too late to nuke the thread if so.
I've had PM conversations in a similar vein where the person has asked for the discussion to be kept confidential, and I respected that. If Alex wanted it kept private, I'm sure he would have said as much in so many words, yes?
Not everyone can stay on top of reminding every single person they talk to, to keep their private consersations just that. If a question was asked, and answered through a private medium, it is proper etiquette to ask permission before releasing the contents. Then again, you wanted to argue against his conclusions, so I can understand why you didn't ask.
Yeah I agree, its not his job to tell everyone he replies to, if a question is asked in private and answered in private that is how it should stay...
On August 23 2011 02:20 ReTr0[p.S] wrote: He is a comedic entertainer, more or less like a clown. People will be entertained, but no one will ever take him seriously.
this is the exact answer we can close this topic now, also destiny is plateaued in skill and will never get better anyway going to korea is just laughable.
On August 23 2011 02:21 birdkicker wrote: With upmost respect, there are many people in the world who use vulgar language daily in life and that hinders them in their profession. Same goes for Starcraft 2.
I really don't want to drag this off-topic, but you are opening up a can of worms with that, at least in my opinion. Everyone is striving to be so politically correct now a days that they simply take things at face value.
There's a very, very large difference between someone saying the "N" word with hateful intent behind it and someone saying the "N" word without hateful intent behind it. There's always the person who brings up, "But why say it if you aren't being hateful", well why say the "F" word if you aren't fornicating, or why say bitch when you aren't referring to a female canine. Intent is everything and I believe the truly intelligent people realize that, of course that means it'll never apply to the main stream, but the main stream is busy with Facebook and Hannah Montanna.
As for language holding back peoples careers, there's two things you have to keep in mind. One, this is the internet, the most "free" place there is. People have been saying whatever the hell they want for a long time now, I'm not saying that means that people have to hire people who do that but Destiny BM's a lot less than people say he does and he doesn't say the racist things with a hateful intent behind them, at least not with their original meaning.
Secondly and here's the important one, there are plenty of careers, especially in the competitive "sports" (Whether you view this as a type of sport or not isn't relevant because my intent is obvious) where language is either accepted or ignored. I'll give you a few examples, I live in LA and (used to) watch the Lakers frequently, there are many times in their broadcasts where for some reason or another the mics on the court pic up uncensored cursing including from players such as Kobe Bryant, including saying the "N" word and slurs towards gay people. I've also watched football, the Denver Broncos and seen some of my favorite players (When they were less awful) do the EXACT same thing.
And just to reiterate once more, Destiny isn't as bad as half the people who stream that I've watched and isn't 10% as bad as some of the haters make him out.
On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote: I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion?
Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5
Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up.
Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late.
It's really not too late to nuke the thread if so.
I've had PM conversations in a similar vein where the person has asked for the discussion to be kept confidential, and I respected that. If Alex wanted it kept private, I'm sure he would have said as much in so many words, yes?
Not everyone can stay on top of reminding every single person they talk to, to keep their private consersations just that. If a question was asked, and answered through a private medium, it is proper etiquette to ask permission before releasing the contents. Then again, you wanted to argue against his conclusions, so I can understand why you didn't ask.
Yeah I agree, its not his job to tell everyone he replies to, if a question is asked in private and answered in private that is how it should stay...
If you are going to answer a question in a way that you want kept private, say so. Otherwise it's as good as public. Granted, it'd be much more courteous if the person asking the question also asked for permission to post about said question either in the question or in a subsequent PM but that doesn't change anything.
On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote: I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion?
Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5
Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up.
Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late.
Can't agree with this more. Not only does the idea of a thread that tries to rate the 'value' of a player rub the the wrong way, but the fact that someone took the time to respond to a PM and then is rewarded by having that PM (read Private Message) posted on a thread as the main piece of evidence to fuel this discussion bothers the hell out of me. That's not to say EGalex hasn't stated his opinion or recruiting a player like Destiny before. He has, in multiple places. Which is part of the reason I'm perplexed as to why you wouldn't quote from one of those sources and instead would just post his PM. The SC2 community is lucky enough to have team members like EGalex active and willing to respond to community members on a regular basis, but if we start taking every PM they send us and posting it publicly, I guarantee you that will stop.
As for the topic of Destiny being on a team, do we not remember when he was on a team and left because he didn't feel it was the right environment for him? He's a fairly skilled player who has managed to support himself the way he feels is best for him. Kudos to him. I'm still not sure what this thread is trying to accomplish, other than create a flame war -.-
On August 23 2011 02:20 ReTr0[p.S] wrote: He is a comedic entertainer, more or less like a clown. People will be entertained, but no one will ever take him seriously.
He doesn't need to be taken seriously when he beats you, or others who hate on him including players who continue to profess to being much better players than him. Just saying.
I like your argument, reminds me of when I was 11.
On August 23 2011 02:21 birdkicker wrote: With upmost respect, there are many people in the world who use vulgar language daily in life and that hinders them in their profession. Same goes for Starcraft 2.
I really don't want to drag this off-topic, but you are opening up a can of worms with that, at least in my opinion. Everyone is striving to be so politically correct now a days that they simply take things at face value.
There's a very, very large difference between someone saying the "N" word with hateful intent behind it and someone saying the "N" word without hateful intent behind it. There's always the person who brings up, "But why say it if you aren't being hateful", well why say the "F" word if you aren't fornicating, or why say bitch when you aren't referring to a female canine. Intent is everything and I believe the truly intelligent people realize that, of course that means it'll never apply to the main stream, but the main stream is busy with Facebook and Hannah Montanna.
As for language holding back peoples careers, there's two things you have to keep in mind. One, this is the internet, the most "free" place there is. People have been saying whatever the hell they want for a long time now, I'm not saying that means that people have to hire people who do that but Destiny BM's a lot less than people say he does and he doesn't say the racist things with a hateful intent behind them, at least not with their original meaning.
Secondly and here's the important one, there are plenty of careers, especially in the competitive "sports" (Whether you view this as a type of sport or not isn't relevant because my intent is obvious) where language is either accepted or ignored. I'll give you a few examples, I live in LA and (used to) watch the Lakers frequently, there are many times in their broadcasts where for some reason or another the mics on the court pic up uncensored cursing including from players such as Kobe Bryant, including saying the "N" word and slurs towards gay people. I've also watched football, the Denver Broncos and seen some of my favorite players (When they were less awful) do the EXACT same thing.
And just to reiterate once more, Destiny isn't as bad as half the people who stream that I've watched and isn't 10% as bad as some of the haters make him out.
On August 22 2011 22:39 Senx wrote: I cant believe you PMed EGAlex then post his response publicly and then build your entire argument around what he said. Extremely insulting towards EGAlex.
If destiny deserves to be on a professional SC2 team he'd already be on one. If he cant fulfill certain critierias that a team would set up then he doesn't deserve it.
Why is this even a topic of discussion?
Yeah I was saying the same thing back on page 5
Why would you PM him and then post it publicly on team liquid, and if you did why would you immediately use his name directly when talking about a controversial topic that is extremely fucked up.
Especially considering that just ruins it for other team liquid members that want to PM Alex in the future, what obligation is he under to reply if you guys are going to post a private message...I'm surprised TL allowed this thread to even stay up this long now, but by now its too late.
It's really not too late to nuke the thread if so.
I've had PM conversations in a similar vein where the person has asked for the discussion to be kept confidential, and I respected that. If Alex wanted it kept private, I'm sure he would have said as much in so many words, yes?
Not everyone can stay on top of reminding every single person they talk to, to keep their private consersations just that. If a question was asked, and answered through a private medium, it is proper etiquette to ask permission before releasing the contents. Then again, you wanted to argue against his conclusions, so I can understand why you didn't ask.
Yeah I agree, its not his job to tell everyone he replies to, if a question is asked in private and answered in private that is how it should stay...
If you are going to answer a question in a way that you want kept private, say so. Otherwise it's as good as public. Granted, it'd be much more courteous if the person asking the question also asked for permission to post about said question either in the question or in a subsequent PM but that doesn't change anything.
On August 23 2011 02:20 ReTr0[p.S] wrote: He is a comedic entertainer, more or less like a clown. People will be entertained, but no one will ever take him seriously.
He doesn't need to be taken seriously when he beats you, or others who hate on him including players who continue to profess to being much better players than him. Just saying.
I like your argument, reminds me of when I was 11.
As opposed to calling someone you only know over the internet a clown. That's a brilliant one. *facepalm*
On August 23 2011 02:28 zarepath wrote: You know what the P stands for in PM, right?
You know what the it doesn't matter stands for in it doesn't matter, right?
If you are going to respond to someone you don't know who you aren't sure will keep something private you should either ask that it be kept private or ask what they are going to do with said information first. That or just don't respond at all. Doing anything other than that and then being at all angry when information is released is the fault of you. That doesn't mean the guy releasing the information is a good person, but that doesn't change anything.
On August 23 2011 01:59 Dayrlan wrote: If Destiny was as unmarketable as you suggest, then Complexity wouldn't have picked him up in the first place.
And speaking of, Destiny leaving Complexity had nothing to do with marketability. It had to do with Destiny and Complexity not being a good fit for one another. Building the right relationship plays extremely strongly into this, and there's no reason why one couldn't be built with Destiny by a prospective team.
The reason Destiny isn't marketable is because he's not willing to. He won't cast for Complexity's "The V". He probably doesn't like training with the team (as opposed to his other training partners, some of who are pretty good). He probably would prefer making a lot of dough streaming and coaching rather than in team meetings, or show up on a lot of these shows for the simple sake of representing Complexity.
He could be very marketable if he changed his attitude, but it's his own personal decision, and if he likes what he does, no need to. But that does mean it's hard for a team to market him.
For those who are appalled at the public posting of EGalex's thoughts originally sent in a private message, I have sent him another message asking if he wishes the thread to be taken down. If so, that'll be done, but no response yet.
To those who say Destiny thinks of the thread as 'retarded' or anything of the sort, I would say to you: it doesn't really matter. The thread itself is just about your opinions on some of the questions, and your supporting argument, baseless assertions and flame run rampant and I suppose if Destiny is super opposed to this threads existence then also he need only pm me and I'll take it down.
Also, the OP is lacking both on successes and failures as has been noted by many commenters, If you have an addition that is from recent weeks/months to either successes or failures please italicize it in your post henceforth and it will be added to the OP.
Stop taking this as a fanboy v. hater with people who don't care sitting watching. Just take a deep breath if you are offended by something someone (including myself in the OP) has said, and respond intelligently, and if you don't care, don't post!
It's far to heavy an atmosphere, just lighten up a little! Enjoy some lively discussion about a well known player, if you like him, if you don't, just say it with a reasonable degree of coherence and everything will go much more efficiently.
Destiny and Sheth are the only Streamer i watch (being a zerg of course). Here is why i love watching Destiny whenever time allows me to do so: He is one of the nicest guys ever, same goes for Sheth of course; also he is a really honest guy. Whenever you watch him teach one of his students, he is so gentle and patient with them. He tries so hard to teach his student (and me hehe) how in his opinion the matchups work, how to take fights etc. Even though the builds and tactics he teaches might require too much micro to be good builds to teach a "bad" player, he still works hard. After watching a lot of his streaming i don't even think he is that bad-mouthed as many ppl call him to be. Just occasionally he uses some stronger expressions by accident.
About his "skills": He is more aware of the potential of the infestor than most other zergs. That does not make him one-dimensional, neither does it make him a bad player if there was no infestor. Sure if there was no infestor he might not beat pros that often, but if there were no infestors i would start seeing pink protoss deathballs in my dreams again. I see the infestor as a much needed equalizer in many matchups (for example, large groups of thors + tanks and hellion support and scvs for repair were REALLY scary until ppl figured out that NP on the thors lets the zerg beat this army without having to lose 3 times the ressources terran loses.) I also think of his wins listed in the first post most often as a result of people not used to infestor harass. Protoss are so used to the get-out-of-fail-button (also called warp ins) that deters most minor harassments (lings, roaches, even mutalisks; of course depending on available warpgates) but not to 32 infested marines that don't even cost anything if you manage to retreat your infestors. Therefore if a player would play Destiny a lot i expect his win ratio against that pro player to drop by 10-20%. However, knowing that Hellions will be dropped does not guarantee you a safe defense, same goes of course for infestors. So to sum it up, he profits from the underuse of infestors by other zerg players. Still, he has awesome micro with said unit, tries to play safe with them (you see top koreans running in all infestors into a sieged army along with the rest, they seem like not even giving infestors an extra hotkey and lose them time and time again etc). So if i subtract the inexperience of other player in dealing with heavy infestor play, i would still give him a 6/10 (where 5/10 would be high master in my scaling and 10/10 would be nestea level)
So now you put him in a position where if the thread is taken down its because he wanted it? It should have never been up originally. And once again all you do is create a separation between business and the community. How would this in any way help motivate a person like AG to respond to PM's in the future about more private matters, before it was pretty accessible and now he'll have to be wary that a thread will just create more hatred towards his work and his company.
The way EGalex worded his response, I am very sure he knew it would not stay a private message and would be posted somewhere. A whole lot of drama about nothing in my opinion.
One of the reason i dislike this guy is he's doing nothing to improve E-sports or help grow the SC2 scene. He's funny and creative but he's far from a team player and should stay teamless until he changes his egocentric attitude.
Skillwise, i think he's bad but entertaining.
But with his popularity and such, he's marketable for sure but far away of Huk's value.
I think the only disingenuous part of the OP is the idea that any factor is comparable to LAN/big tourney results when determining the value of a player. Almost all of the exceptions to this rule are a result of rampant SC1/WC3 nepotism.
Destiny is a good player and anybody who denies that is just being unreasonable. That being said, Destiny will not have community wide respect until he gets a significant finish in a major tournament. At that point nothing else will matter.
On August 23 2011 01:59 Dayrlan wrote: If Destiny was as unmarketable as you suggest, then Complexity wouldn't have picked him up in the first place.
And speaking of, Destiny leaving Complexity had nothing to do with marketability. It had to do with Destiny and Complexity not being a good fit for one another. Building the right relationship plays extremely strongly into this, and there's no reason why one couldn't be built with Destiny by a prospective team.
The reason Destiny isn't marketable is because he's not willing to. He won't cast for Complexity's "The V". He probably doesn't like training with the team (as opposed to his other training partners, some of who are pretty good). He probably would prefer making a lot of dough streaming and coaching rather than in team meetings, or show up on a lot of these shows for the simple sake of representing Complexity.
He could be very marketable if he changed his attitude, but it's his own personal decision, and if he likes what he does, no need to. But that does mean it's hard for a team to market him.
I'm sure theres plenty of players that simply don't like casting, and Destiny is probably one of them. Casting a tournament shouldn't really have to fit into marketability when your being signed as a player. Training with the team is something destiny did fairly often in Root, so i don't see why he wouldnt have done it in complexity as well. And as for the streaming thing, its his main source of revenue and he has a kid, unless a team offered him enough compensation, he kinda has to do it.
I think the only disingenuous part of the OP is the idea that any factor is comparable to LAN/big tourney results when determining the value of a player. Almost all of the exceptions to this rule are a result of rampant SC1/WC3 nepotism.
Destiny is a good player and anybody who denies that is just being unreasonable. That being said, Destiny will not have community wide respect until he gets a significant finish in a major tournament. At that point nothing else will matter.
This is a fair assessment, I do believe that community wide respect will only be garnered when/if he wins any big tournaments. Would he receive it even then though? I mean would a team pick him up (considering all the other confounding variables) if he placed very highly in an MLG or something of that nature?
At first he didn't impress me. NOt at all. I got confused when he was on root. AS watching him on stream and finding results from him He impressed me. He impressed me as a player and creating new tatics. But there is a difference between Ladder results and tourment. ALot of companys like EG and ETC. Want players who everyknow knows. Like huk for exsample. We all know he went to korea and some success in code A which not many players can say they have done. THey want to be able to say Hey DO you know EGhuk. Yes isn't he the player that was from liquid and went to code A and ETC. Yes with whatever happened with Root and COL and Destiny WE will never know TRuely we know what we are given. As far as i understand Destiny Is interested to be on a team. Thats his choice. WHen hes ready for a team. I think he will get offers.. But for someone to look at him he needs to win something or get close. BEcause thats what Teams look at it at the end of the day. You could be number 1 GM and lose every tourment and probably no team would touch him unless he/she. as the fan base to sell there product and feel that can get there player over the tourment Getters. Thank you for reading have a wonderful day.
On August 23 2011 01:49 bech wrote: You know what I find funny though? I never see Destiny BM'ing people unless they're being dicks to him. Then he'll give them a shitstorm, sure, but he never really starts it himself - not from my viewing experience anyway.. I wonder if people who dislike him actually know that.
But then again, I for one fucking hate the whole manner-thing. Come on, this is a competitive sport - and competition without emotion is nothing. You can win with grace, sure, but everyone spamming "BM" at the sight of a quirky remark is so fucking ridiculous.
Destiny is really mannered in my experience. It's just that he sometimes uses "bad words" while commentating or coaching. He doesn't actually offend anyone he just uses some words that apparently are offensive no matter what. There was a huge thread about this a while back and some discussion on I believe SotG. Since then he is labeled as "problematic".
btw. Why would you make a topic based on a PRIVATE message? Did Alex say you could go ahead and post the contents of his pm? If you didn't ask for permission before posting I would consider it very rude to do so.
Edit: My view on this is:
1. Destiny is a good player. 2. Destiny could very well be a valuable member to a team in terms of skill (there are worse players on a pro team imo) 3. Destiny isn't attractive for teams because he hasn't won anything big. 4. Destiny doesn't want to join a team because he doesn't want to do concessions for sponsors (doesn't want to change his language on his stream) and he doesn't feel it's necessary for him to be on a team.
In short: teams aren't interested in Destiny because of lack of results and Destiny doesn't want to join a team. If Destiny would go to a few pro teams and offer to join them I'm sure there will be teams that would accept if Destiny would conform to their "rules" on how to behave in public (for sponsors etc.)
On August 23 2011 03:26 Zlasher wrote: So now you put him in a position where if the thread is taken down its because he wanted it? It should have never been up originally. And once again all you do is create a separation between business and the community. How would this in any way help motivate a person like AG to respond to PM's in the future about more private matters, before it was pretty accessible and now he'll have to be wary that a thread will just create more hatred towards his work and his company.
So now that we've all heaped a series of posts on the thread saying that it's inappropriate that information from a PM was posted publicly, what else would you have the OP do? He's obviously interested in doing what he can to make it right. Even if that's impossible at this point (understandably), is there really a point in continuing to shit on him even when he's looking for a way to help you out?
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: Destiny is caustic and turns a lot of people off. In addition to just not wanting to be associated with his philosphy, many teams will have a legitimate concern about anti-fans. I, for one, root for complexity more often for not putting up with Destiny's rude language and casual insults.
Are you a prude?
Through streaming, we get a direct view at mainly adolescent and maturing individuals in the comfort of their own space. If we had athletes of other sports with home video type material, I can assure you that there might be some pretty offensive stuff to some people contained within. Not to mention that of on-field, on-ice, on-court verbal exchanges from professional games, many of such occurrences would be abhorring to many people. In fact, ask a lot of people who have been to sports events and had the ability to be within earshot of the athletes, and they'll tell you the kind of stuff that goes on during a game.
Now contrast that with our sport, and whatever may be contained on streams or eSports shows, there is very little true BM that extends into live events and most players handle their matches, dealings with players and interviews quite well; Destiny included.
I think we as a society/community are a little more sensitive to some things, and less towards others, and it's because we as a community have direct access to those that are quasi-"celebrities." It doesn't put those players at any less of a standpoint as other sports and their athletes however. To be honest, if there were some organizations and companies that would discredit a person over their ability to express themselves, I'd certainly like to know.
Standard apologist fair. I remember watching Gordon Hayward the first night he streamed. One of his friends said something like, "YO NIGGA!". Hayward, if you watched him closely, was mortified. You could read the terror on his face. "Oh shit, what if this gets posted to ESPN." He told his friend to "calm down" and "quit that" (I might be paraphrasing). Hayward is the same age as Destiny. The difference between the two? Hayward understands the furor that could have potentially been created had it gotten out that a room full of white 20-somethings were shouting "NIGGA!" to each other.
Destiny peddles his wares to the lowest common denominator because he realizes that is where he makes his money. He has yet to make it through the open bracket at MLG. As far as competitive StarCraft 2 goes he is a non-factor.
On August 22 2011 13:43 viralintruder wrote: Who would EG consider a 10/10 or even a 7/10?
No one on eg is a 10/10 that is sure. Going by that harsh a rating scale huk is prob the only one close to 7/10 as idra has many of the same faults they point out in destiny just with better results.
On August 22 2011 13:43 viralintruder wrote: Who would EG consider a 10/10 or even a 7/10?
No one on eg is a 10/10 that is sure. Going by that harsh a rating scale huk is prob the only one close to 7/10 as idra has many of the same faults they point out in destiny just with better results.
Yea I was gonna say it's sort of sick that they would say Destiny is not marketable when they are sponsoring Idra who makes himself like an idiot at just about every tournament he attends.
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: Destiny is caustic and turns a lot of people off. In addition to just not wanting to be associated with his philosphy, many teams will have a legitimate concern about anti-fans. I, for one, root for complexity more often for not putting up with Destiny's rude language and casual insults.
Are you a prude?
Through streaming, we get a direct view at mainly adolescent and maturing individuals in the comfort of their own space. If we had athletes of other sports with home video type material, I can assure you that there might be some pretty offensive stuff to some people contained within. Not to mention that of on-field, on-ice, on-court verbal exchanges from professional games, many of such occurrences would be abhorring to many people. In fact, ask a lot of people who have been to sports events and had the ability to be within earshot of the athletes, and they'll tell you the kind of stuff that goes on during a game.
Now contrast that with our sport, and whatever may be contained on streams or eSports shows, there is very little true BM that extends into live events and most players handle their matches, dealings with players and interviews quite well; Destiny included.
I think we as a society/community are a little more sensitive to some things, and less towards others, and it's because we as a community have direct access to those that are quasi-"celebrities." It doesn't put those players at any less of a standpoint as other sports and their athletes however. To be honest, if there were some organizations and companies that would discredit a person over their ability to express themselves, I'd certainly like to know.
Standard apologist fair. I remember watching Gordon Hayward the first night he streamed. One of his friends said something like, "YO NIGGA!". Hayward, if you watched him closely, was mortified. You could read the terror on his face. "Oh shit, what if this gets posted to ESPN." He told his friend to "calm down" and "quit that" (I might be paraphrasing). Hayward is the same age as Destiny. The difference between the two? Hayward understands the furor that could have potentially been created had it gotten out that a room full of white 20-somethings were shouting "NIGGA!" to each other.
Destiny peddles his wares to the lowest common denominator because he realizes that is where he makes his money. He has yet to make it through the open bracket at MLG. As far as competitive StarCraft 2 goes he is a non-factor.
Destiny also understand the reactions he could get from him saying YO NIGGA! on stream (which is much less than than in the case of Gordon Hayward btw.). He understands it and he thinks it's the dumbest thing ever so even tho he understands he doesn't change because you don't stop with what you're doing just because people around you are dumb.
He doesn't feel he offends anyone with what he says so when people complain about his language he reacts by saying you shouldn't be so dumb and just listen to what he says instead of listening to the words he uses.
I agree btw.
Also beating Rain, Puzzle, Ace, TT1 and Incontrol (just to name a few) in Bo5's and Bo3's is hardly a non factor in Esports. Incontrol is consistently placing high in MLG because of past results but at the moment you could make a strong case for him being a non-factor in Esports. A stronger case than for Destiny imo.
btw. I'm not saying Incontrol is bad, I respect the guy and he's a good player. Just saying that in comparison Destiny is just playing better at the moment.
On August 23 2011 03:29 Destiny wrote: why don't people make these threads about every player
.___.
Because, none of them are as interesting and outspoken as you (which is a good thing btw). Your like the realest player out there. ...... but beware keeping it real can go wrong sometimes as Dave Chappelle has shown us.
It is pretty rich coming from EG about the results side of things. Aside from Idra, Puma and Huk none of their players have done much. Axslav, Incontrol, Machine and LZGamer have never placed well in any tournament to my knowledge.
If EG have such high standards they should see about removing their bad players before they start calling out other people about their results.
On August 23 2011 03:30 monx wrote: One of the reason i dislike this guy is he's doing nothing to improve E-sports or help grow the SC2 scene. He's funny and creative but he's far from a team player and should stay teamless until he changes his egocentric attitude.
Skillwise, i think he's bad but entertaining.
But with his popularity and such, he's marketable for sure but far away of Huk's value.
You say he isn't a teamplayer yet he used to practice with his teammates often and discuss tactics with them (I've seen it happen on stream a few times).
The main reason I think he doesn't want to join a team is because most teams demand that you behave well in public (and on stream) which includes not using offensive language (even tho offensive language doesn't actually exist imo).
Also he doesn't need the money you get from being on a team and he can just practice with his old teammates anyway. In short no reason for him to join a team.
On August 23 2011 04:23 Sj___ wrote: It is pretty rich coming from EG about the results side of things. Aside from Idra, Puma and Huk none of their players have done much. Axslav, Incontrol, Machine and LZGamer have never placed well in any tournament to my knowledge.
If EG have such high standards they should see about removing their bad players before they start calling out other people about their results.
While I agree on the results part you make a HUGE mistake here.
Alex hasn't called out anyone on his results. He responded to a PRIVATE message. Also when EG picked up those players the player landscape and their ambitions where very different. With the current results they wouldn't pick up Axlav if he wasn't already on the team but back then they did because times where different. Also no need to drop any of their players who aren't performing at the very top if they are useful practice partners or provide other services for the team. Also nothing wrong with staying loyal with your players.
On August 22 2011 13:43 viralintruder wrote: Who would EG consider a 10/10 or even a 7/10?
No one on eg is a 10/10 that is sure. Going by that harsh a rating scale huk is prob the only one close to 7/10 as idra has many of the same faults they point out in destiny just with better results.
Yeah inc and idra regularly say shit that makes them look like idiots as well, I love them all for it as there should be a combination of the super proffessional and the people who speak their mind.
People loved hines ward and bill romanowski and football and they are about as polar opposite as you get and that is an established "professional" sport.
We take a variety of factors into account when recruiting, including:
1) Major LAN/Online Tournament Results 2) Work Ethic/Natural Talent/Potential for Improvement 3) Marketability/Personality 4) Established Fan Base
I think that Destiny is quite strong in category 4, and probably slightly above average in category 2. In categories 1 and 3, I'd give him very low ratings.
I agree that his style is innovative, and he should be applauded for developing such a huge fan base and streaming following. However, he currently has no impressive results to speak of in my eyes, really (practice games, show matches, and mid-tier tournaments just don't matter, unfortunately). Also, his image and personality really hold him back from becoming more of a mainstream star.
I think that if he can post an impressive result at a large tournament, it'll turn some heads.
It's interesting to see how EG evaluate potential recruits. I bet each team puts different emphasis on certain categories. For example, Team Liquid places a premium on players who are well mannered and presentable.
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: I am fully aware that Destiny probably means no ill with his words, but the fact that he thinks that black people shouldn't be offended by the N word, just shows that he is ignorant.
Louis CK is really hitting it big atm, but come on, you're using a comic's bit as an argument? What a joke. There was an episode this season, where the whole focus was about Louis realizing that there were just some words that he couldn't say on stage if he wanted to keep his job. One of those words was the N-word. He brought in Joan Rivers to slap some sense into him, into realizing how much of an idiot he was being.
It's comedy. Sometimes comedians make a point, sometimes comedians don't. Comedians generally do not care if they believe what they say. Comedians have one goal above all, it's to make it funny, so that's the only thing you can know for sure that they're being sincere about when doing their routine. Quit being a cunt.
His work ethic is a extremely impressive, he analyzes matches everytime, knows the game in and out, and doesn't give up. He plays all day, on NA and KR. Alex needs to re-evaluate. Points 3 and 4 are also overlooked. Fan Base? over 20 million views kinda does mean something.
On August 23 2011 01:10 MisterFred wrote: I am fully aware that Destiny probably means no ill with his words, but the fact that he thinks that black people shouldn't be offended by the N word, just shows that he is ignorant.
Louis CK is really hitting it big atm, but come on, you're using a comic's bit as an argument? What a joke. There was an episode this season, where the whole focus was about Louis realizing that there were just some words that he couldn't say on stage if he wanted to keep his job. One of those words was the N-word. He brought in Joan Rivers to slap some sense into him, into realizing how much of an idiot he was being.
It's comedy. Sometimes comedians make a point, sometimes comedians don't. Comedians generally do not care if they believe what they say. Comedians have one goal above all, it's to make it funny, so that's the only thing you can know for sure that they're being sincere about when doing their routine. Quit being a cunt.
Comedy is very much a valid way of making a point. See shows like the Daily Show and the Colbert Report-sure, they're trying to entertain, but they are definitely using comedy to make political points. There are many ways to express your views or make points besides just flat out saying them. Comedy is one of them.
That said, I've always been a destiny fan, but he seems to choke or something at tournaments. If he can start improving on that and start placing in tournaments, then he definitely will have teams looking at him. The potential is there, and I think Destiny has the work ethic to make it happen. We'll see.
On August 23 2011 00:15 drlame wrote: I know a big fanbase and popularity all around can bring revenue in some way to a team, but picking up a player that doesn't show consistent results (in tourneys) tarnishes the reputation a lot. Most teams want their name to be associate with the best of the best and picking up a player solely on his/her fanbase is not the way to do it.
Then I guess, EG should get rid of most of their team and Liquid could say thank you to Tyler and Haypro...
Except that Tyler has shown great results, even if not recently his understanding of the game might make him a future coach. The same can be said about Haypro: he's already shown he can compete for medal placement in tourneys and to top it off he has a lot more potential than Destiny. + Show Spoiler +
On August 23 2011 03:30 monx wrote: One of the reason i dislike this guy is he's doing nothing to improve E-sports or help grow the SC2 scene. He's funny and creative but he's far from a team player and should stay teamless until he changes his egocentric attitude.
Skillwise, i think he's bad but entertaining.
But with his popularity and such, he's marketable for sure but far away of Huk's value.
This is very much the way i feel like it is. I also think with an infestor nerf his play level will drop very much.
I don't understand why you rank him low on 3 (marketability/personality).
He obviously attracted a huge fan base / gets many stream viewers due to his personality - he is actually refreshing to watch since he does not care about being politically correct 100% of the time, is pretty outspoken, and entertaining to watch - much more so than other pro gaming streams who just blast random techno music and don't say a word.
Popularity/stream viewers doesn't really factor in for me. So far he has produced mediocre results (The koreans were playing at obscenely early times for them in addition to dealing with lag so dont bother bringing those showmatches into it). He has never made it far into the open bracket in any of the MLG's. Yeah, hes pretty good, I watch his stream sometimes. Like yesterday, I saw him in the showmatch vs Skit, he just got demolished, and he isnt even known that much to foreigners.
Another thing to consider is his commitment. I can't see him dropping everything and moving to a teamhouse in korea if the situation called for it. I do think at the very least he will stay active and continue practicing, unlike Spanishiwa. His dedication to SC2 is something I can respect.
I think destiny is a great player, hes gotten alot better recently from playing on the KR servers, but i think alot of people give him too much credit for the wins against bomber.
On August 23 2011 05:28 JIJI_ wrote: I don't understand why you rank him low on 3 (marketability/personality).
He obviously attracted a huge fan base / gets many stream viewers due to his personality - he is actually refreshing to watch since he does not care about being politically correct 100% of the time, is pretty outspoken, and entertaining to watch - much more so than other pro gaming streams who just blast random techno music and don't say a word.
EG already has publicity problems, do you really think picking up destiny would HELP EG's publicity problems? Sure, he has his own rabid fanbase, but he also has a ton of people who DON'T like him. I think many teams besides EG would have issues with that. He deserves to be on a team, but I'm not certain he will be on a team if he doesn't clean up his act at least a little bit.
On August 23 2011 05:28 JIJI_ wrote: I don't understand why you rank him low on 3 (marketability/personality).
He obviously attracted a huge fan base / gets many stream viewers due to his personality - he is actually refreshing to watch since he does not care about being politically correct 100% of the time, is pretty outspoken, and entertaining to watch - much more so than other pro gaming streams who just blast random techno music and don't say a word.
Marketing is about getting people into something, not already having them in.
Did you ever see "Hey come to our store people treat you like shit and they say bad words it's funny lol come here" in marketing? No, you need a different, more mass-compatible image to get a wide "range" of viewers.
Louis CK is really hitting it big atm, but come on, you're using a comic's bit as an argument? What a joke. There was an episode this season, where the whole focus was about Louis realizing that there were just some words that he couldn't say on stage if he wanted to keep his job. One of those words was the N-word. He brought in Joan Rivers to slap some sense into him, into realizing how much of an idiot he was being.
It's comedy. Sometimes comedians make a point, sometimes comedians don't. Comedians generally do not care if they believe what they say. Comedians have one goal above all, it's to make it funny, so that's the only thing you can know for sure that they're being sincere about when doing their routine. Quit being a cunt.
Comedy is very much a valid way of making a point. See shows like the Daily Show and the Colbert Report-sure, they're trying to entertain, but they are definitely using comedy to make political points. There are many ways to express your views or make points besides just flat out saying them. Comedy is one of them.
That said, I've always been a destiny fan, but he seems to choke or something at tournaments. If he can start improving on that and start placing in tournaments, then he definitely will have teams looking at him. The potential is there, and I think Destiny has the work ethic to make it happen. We'll see.
That's why it's called political satire.
I prefer my point more:
Saying words that have no meaning to you is in fact meaningless and low-brow comedy (if you can even call it that) at it's finest. It's as if you have Tourette's Syndrome while having no tolerance towards others and it embraces silly stereotypes. When people get mad, they say all sorts of stuff they don't necessarily mean. Hence T.S. They cannot really hold it back. -.-
Yes, it only has meaning if you give it meaning. But, why do people say stuff that is meaningless to them in the first place?
Sometimes it is better to be sensible than senseless in the public eye. That is why many of us keep personal thoughts to ourselves instead of blurting them out. We make self edits all the time like Louis said. In Destiny's case he cannot hold back the slurs and it's a lot like having Tourette's Syndrome. Something that cannot really be helped.
To be perfectly honest, and i know im going to get flamed lol, but i think that Destiny's playstyle is very 1 dimensional.
Yes, he managed to beat Bomber and Ace, but if he actually went out to Korea, or ran into them in an MLG and played them offline, i have no hesitation in saying that Destiny would lose. His style of play is so easily hardcountered and meta-gamed, espicially since it is such a unique style of play.
Additionally, and as Destiny has admitted himself, he will mix up his playstyle and play standard during a BoX, but Destiny has also admitted that his standard play is not as strong as his mass infestor style.
Furthermore, on the subject of the SotG hosts, specifically their success and their grounds to hate on Destiny, speficially Artosis and iNcontroL, who have not shown amazing results as of late, both are renowned BroodWar Players, which is arguably a much harder game than SC2, and neither of which are actually playing full time. Artosis is casting GSL, and iNcontrol just recently began to train full time again at the EG house w/ the rest of his teammates.
Also, on the subject of which team he would fit best in, i dont honestly know if he should be on a team. I understand that he has a large fanbase and that would help the team he joins, but his personality is very... far fetched(?) and unique to say the least. While some of the teams that you mentioned, such as vVv and Sixjax both have rather unique characters on their teams, (Major, im looking at you) im not sure that you can have multiple large scale personalities without instability.
Lastly, towards his potential as a player, he already plays/streams/practice/ladders etc etc at least 8+ hours a day, which is more than many people who are on a team, but yet still has not posted results. While practicing with a team CAN greatly improve your skill in the game (see ALL the korean houses, and partially the EG house), im not sure it would benefit destiny, assuming he chooses to stick with his Mass infestor playstyle, which he has already basically perfected to a science, and yet still has shown no results.
TL;DR: Put Destiny in a offline showmatch against Bomber or Ace or most other notables that he's played, and he will likely lose. Espicially if they are given a heads up ahead of time, becuase this will allow them to prepare for his style.
I dont know if you can hvae multiple personalites of Destiny's scale on the same team
SotG hosts are a bad exmaple, mostly becuase iNcontroL only recently started playing full time, and no one else on the show does play full time (tyler has said himself that he does not practice much)
His standard play is weaker than his mass infestor style
He has already imo practiced enough a day for long enough that he should be getting close to his potental as a player, and while a team does accelerate this, it would likely require him to switch styles, becuase he already has close to perfected his Ling/Infestor style.
Great Innovation =/= Great Player
He also has said that he doesnt want to join a team at the moment.
Edit: Disclaimer: I dont dislike Destiny, just arguing a point =P
On August 23 2011 03:30 monx wrote: One of the reason i dislike this guy is he's doing nothing to improve E-sports or help grow the SC2 scene. He's funny and creative but he's far from a team player and should stay teamless until he changes his egocentric attitude.
Skillwise, i think he's bad but entertaining.
But with his popularity and such, he's marketable for sure but far away of Huk's value.
This is very much the way i feel like it is. I also think with an infestor nerf his play level will drop very much.
I'm sorry, could one of you point out where Axlav did anything to 'improve E-sports' or 'help grow the SC2 scene'? That's the most idiotic metric I've ever heard in my life. 9/10s of the players in the game have done shit-all to improve e-sports or help grow the scene. They play a game and get paid to do it.
Though agreed his Infestor crutch isn't healthy, and he's no team player, which is kind of an important quality to be on a team.
Speaking of which, Destiny coaches almost every other day. Isn't that helping the scene?
On August 23 2011 06:09 Haegr9599 wrote: He has already imo practiced enough a day for long enough that he should be getting close to his potental as a player, and while a team does accelerate this, it would likely require him to switch styles, becuase he already has close to perfected his Ling/Infestor style.
Edit: Disclaimer: I dont dislike Destiny, just arguing a point =P
I think you miss an important element here. Destiny's 'practice' isn't focused. He mostly just ladders. Every pro discounts that as a way to truly 'practice'. Players like Nestea don't ladder at all (I've heard he ladders for fun and plays random, or does fun things and loses).
It'd be truer to say he's reached his peak practicing in a disorganized way mostly by laddering.
Being on a team would almost certainly help him if he took it seriously. But economically he's got no reason to do that. His stream already pays better than most SC2 pros can earn (especially since he's good enough to claim frequent payoffs from showmatches and coaching sessions).
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
after the incontrol win, destiny has looked horrid. its natural to think people have adjusted to his style. of cousre the real question is if one of his big wins is against incontrol...could incontrol be overrated at this point?
Rofl poor Destiny.. In all due respect though, Destiny can easily outgrow his little infestor play and start some Nestea Action. You never know guyses. Nevar Nao
On August 23 2011 06:09 Haegr9599 wrote: He has already imo practiced enough a day for long enough that he should be getting close to his potental as a player, and while a team does accelerate this, it would likely require him to switch styles, becuase he already has close to perfected his Ling/Infestor style.
Edit: Disclaimer: I dont dislike Destiny, just arguing a point =P
I think you miss an important element here. Destiny's 'practice' isn't focused. He mostly just ladders. Every pro discounts that as a way to truly 'practice'. Players like Nestea don't ladder at all (I've heard he ladders for fun and plays random, or does fun things and loses).
It'd be truer to say he's reached his peak practicing in a disorganized way mostly by laddering.
Being on a team would almost certainly help him if he took it seriously. But economically he's got no reason to do that. His stream already pays better than most SC2 pros can earn (especially since he's good enough to claim frequent payoffs from showmatches and coaching sessions).
Hm, truthfully, i think i agree with you. So without that element, were all back to "i dont like destiny, he shouldnt be on a team" or "i like destiny, hes the best playa eva" becuase we cant really make an accurate judgement to his skill level if he was to take up that kind of a practice enviroment.
I don't know why you are pulling other names in this, but I'll chime in.
They aren't renowned in the other sense of the word. Not the sense you use when you say BW is a harder game.
I would call them recognizable for different reasons other than their success at competing at the highest level in Brood War and even that is borderline internationally. Artosis' fame comes from his casting of the first TSL.
Incontrol's fame from BW comes from his leading of 88), the USA B team and winning WCG USA finals one year. That is it almost it when you look at the majors.
Not playing full-time is nothing more than an excuse and its a cop-out. Yes, Inc. is finally focusing on what matters to him most and to be honest, I don't expect much out of this but we'll wait and see.
You can mass game all you want, 8+ hours a day and your development gets stunned. That's why you need to perfect your practice in order to improve. I made many mentions to this before, but everyone has their own skill ceiling. You need to learn to adapt and all that jazz.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
except destinys multitasking is better than sjow and goody
Not sure if this post was meant to be a slight at EG, or a plug for Destiny? I think the entire question posed here, "what is Destiny's role in SC2?", is absurd. His place in the community is obvious, his skill level widely acknowledged, and his lack of a team entirely his choice. Not sure why Steven's career must be subject to so much scrutiny from the community, when many other pros get off the hook.
He hasn't taken games off anyone at major lan events. He takes games off people in what could be considered ladder games and in some show matches. I feel like this thread is just a destiny fanboi thread. Until he gets close to the championship bracket at an mlg, I wouldn't consider him to be good enough to be on any of those teams. No offense to destiny, his play is cool and he can take games off almost anyone, but so can most grandmasters.
On August 23 2011 06:09 Haegr9599 wrote: He has already imo practiced enough a day for long enough that he should be getting close to his potental as a player, and while a team does accelerate this, it would likely require him to switch styles, becuase he already has close to perfected his Ling/Infestor style.
Edit: Disclaimer: I dont dislike Destiny, just arguing a point =P
I think you miss an important element here. Destiny's 'practice' isn't focused. He mostly just ladders. Every pro discounts that as a way to truly 'practice'. Players like Nestea don't ladder at all (I've heard he ladders for fun and plays random, or does fun things and loses).
It'd be truer to say he's reached his peak practicing in a disorganized way mostly by laddering.
Being on a team would almost certainly help him if he took it seriously. But economically he's got no reason to do that. His stream already pays better than most SC2 pros can earn (especially since he's good enough to claim frequent payoffs from showmatches and coaching sessions).
Hm, truthfully, i think i agree with you. So without that element, were all back to "i dont like destiny, he shouldnt be on a team" or "i like destiny, hes the best playa eva" becuase we cant really make an accurate judgement to his skill level if he was to take up that kind of a practice enviroment.
Precisely, which are perfectly valid reasons, but people for some reason shy away from just saying what they feel and prefer to feel it's justified by something.
I think that EG's response on this is a little off, unless they rate some of their other team members at 2 or 3. Incontrol could be rated higher than Destiny for marketability, but nothing else, and the other EG members don't put out results much better than Destiny's and he's both more recognized and much more marketable.
On a scale of 1 to 10 where CombatEX is 1 and MC is 10, Destiny is probably a safe 5. He's down on skill, but high on fans and such. The social aspect.
But isn't the social aspect the bits we need to be working on? Most teams have barely a personality between them.
Hmm, Destiny has a lot of fans, but my personal opinion is that ladder/showmatch =/= performance in competitions against high level players. He beat Incontrol in one showmatch by 1 game and suddenly he becomes definitively better? I don't disparage his skill, but I wouldn't say he has something special or brand name to offer other than a fairly well-to-do Zerg, and a popular streamer.
Normally I stay away from all this stuff because I don't care but I winder what eg.alex would rank half of his roster to be honest. No results and hardly hear anything about any of them
destiny seems like a decent player and if he wanted i would think that he could get on a decent team. he puts in the hours and if he focused with dedicated practice partners, he could probably get some decent results. he would have to work on some of the things he said to ameliorate the business heads (e.g., lay off the pontification of the value of the word nigger). however, comparing him to other names on big teams (including eg), i think destiny is easily better.
however, why i really wanted to write this comment is because the op's statistics are so much bullshit. destiny has one of the biggest fan bases rivaling even idra. yet, you create a non-objective poll to determine his worth. you don't think that every one of his fans is going to elevate his worth? seems rather pointless.
Destiny getting put on a team is all dependent on what teams are willing to put up with some of the unfamily friendly things he says. Which leads me to believe that a team like EG would be willing to pick him up considering they have a very "fiery" spirit on their team in Idra. But it also comes back to Destiny saying he doesn't want to be on a team. But as a Destiny and EG fan I wouldn't mind the combination.
im sorry op but i dont agree with your " Do you think Destiny deserves to be put on known sc2 team?". If Destiny wants to get on a known team, he should make the effort of trying to get their interest and talk to them first. The way you put it is like you are asking if known teams should contact him first , wich i am not surprised none of them have yet since he hasnt put up the same results as players like Sheth and HuK for example since i beleave they were both approached by their own respective team. tl.dr. If Destiny wants to get on a known team, he should put in the effort and post some results, not wait for them to invite him
On August 23 2011 07:16 Kernen wrote: Destiny getting put on a team is all dependent on what teams are willing to put up with some of the unfamily friendly things he says. Which leads me to believe that a team like EG would be willing to pick him up considering they have a very "fiery" spirit on their team in Idra. But it also comes back to Destiny saying he doesn't want to be on a team. But as a Destiny and EG fan I wouldn't mind the combination.
That's a little beside the point, Greg is not only a former S-class player, but he's been one of the few foreign zerg players to ever churn out any positive results in major events up until Nerchio and Stephano came around. Destiny has got his attitude, and that's about it.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
except destinys multitasking is better than sjow and goody
I think that losing to Grubby is really bad, and makes it likely that Ace had no idea what Destiny's play-style was/is. I think Destiny is improving, but it seems likely that he will either someday form his own team, or else will remain independent. The options for which teams he should be on are ridiculous, at least until I think of the players that are currently on the teams. Those players presumably have had great success in the distant past, but Destiny certainly is at the same level of play as they are, though he is still not as eligible a team mate.
I do think destiny has skill. He might not be a top level player but I don't think anyone can get up there practicing on the ladder. Joining a team pushes you over that hump with the practice partners and shared strategies.
I think destiny should be given a chance but the team should set strict guidelines on the kind of behavior they expect from him. SC2 pros are starting to become superstars and all superstars should know how to put on a face for the camera and for the public. Same thing with sixjaxMajor: he has some public faux pas but Artosis talks to him and major learns. Then again I don't know if Destiny is the type to accept rebuking or even rules.
I don't mind Destiny's "BM" so much but there are other things that are more pressing to change. We all know that Destiny is very outspoken but some things cross the line. For example, bashing race and/or religion. Saying things like "F*** the Koreans" or "Everyone knows relgion is a joke" on stream are things that make teams no want you.
In a youtube vido, Artosis gets asked: "What do you think about recruiting Destiny" at which he repies, making a face: "nooooooooo..... I dont want to..." sixjax has Major who has a reputation of BM but for Artosis to be that against Destiny shows that Destiny is on a different level.
Still i do believe that Destiny should be on a team. People say that he abuses infestors and that hes a 1 trick pony but why not? it works for him on the ladder and in most games. If he joins a team and participates in more major tournaments, I'm sure that he will become more versatile. I'm sure if Destiny is willing to put in the effort and make sacrifices in his attitude then he can be a strong player on a strong team.
I agree with EGalex, anyone who thinks Destiny can beat top koreans on a regular basis with his style and mid-range mechanics is just not being realistic. I would put his skill at a 6, with a lot of room to improve given the right environment. Would love to see Destiny on a team like Sixjax or FXO and see what happens. He as CatZ, Kiwikaki, and slush have said is he is really stubborn. Which is a huge road block some times in improving dramatically, and quickly.
Great write up, really well done. I think EG has looked at Destiny and come to a decent conclusion, I as a fan obviously would like to see him on a respectable team. I hope he improves and get some better results that attract attention so that teams will look past his personality and see him for a great innovative player.
On August 23 2011 08:53 HEROwithNOlegacy wrote: I agree with EGalex, anyone who thinks Destiny can beat top koreans on a regular basis with his style and mid-range mechanics is just not being realistic. I would put his skill at a 6, with a lot of room to improve given the right environment. Would love to see Destiny on a team like Sixjax or FXO and see what happens. He as CatZ, Kiwikaki, and slush have said is he is really stubborn. Which is a huge road block some times in improving dramatically, and quickly.
So, the only way we measure players now is if they can regularly beat Koreans? Which Koreans are we talking about? I know a lot of the players who criticize Destiny get wrecked by "good/decent" Koreans.
As for him being stubborn, sure that can be a bad thing. But it can also lead you to refining a strategy to a point that no one else has before. It could also lead you to a point where you are at a wall as far as your build order which forces you to improve your micro and strategy (ex: drops/multi-pronged attacks, etc) which is also good practice.
I think I'm being generous giving him a 6/10 for skill. If he makes improvements to some things and maintains greater consistency then he'll be ready for a good team.
Destiny doesn't produce tournament results. Until he does, he'll just be an 'avg', unsigned pro gamer. He's probably fine with just getting stream revenue.
This is a great thread, and really has people giving honest opinions instead of flaming or nonsense!
1. Personally, I believe Destiny should be on a team, as his market value can draw in numbers (so it is good for the team as a business model). Plus, you saw his play skill increase dramatically when he was a part of ROOT. He does have potential to be a lot better, especially if more people learn good counters to his style.
2. Personally, I believe Reign is the team for him, as it has been stated that Reign is kind of a team for people who are quite chilled about the whole team experience. Plus, although they just picked up giX, they only have 2 rostered zergs at the moment, leaving a space possibly open...
3. I put his skill level at 6 for many reasons. The main reason is that he only completely trusts 1 build, which is the roach/ infestor build. While this is currently efficient (especially in Korea, where everyone was taken by surprise by the build, including MMA, Boxer and MVP - see CSN's destiny interview at Anaheim), as I said above, once someone learns a hard counter to it, he's in trouble. However, he is extremely strong in knowing what is a good build, he just doesn't completely trust his ability to execute that counter build well enough. His micro is good, as is his macro to a reasonable degree, however I feel he needs to be a bit more aggressive (usually he waits for a set number of units before moving out). This can lead to him being contained and trying to keep in the game off 2 or 3 base... I could go on with this but I don't want to put you to sleep...
4. As above, I believe he is currently in the phase of his career where a good team will really help him improve. However, if that doesn't happen, I fear teams will start seeing him as a business opportunity, instead of seeing him as the player he is. Look at MMA for example (first player of that sort that I can think of....). He was average at best before his move to SlayerS, now having been taught by as good a player as Boxer he is a fabulously well orientated player (beating Nestea, generally regarded as the best currently in Korea)
tldr; teams should see Destiny as a person who can develop his skills and strats more, not as a business item.
On August 23 2011 09:39 Kluey wrote: So he beat EG'iNcontroL and a held his own against Liquid`HuK(tt) but he's not accomplished much?
tournaments are accomplishments and count for something. showmatches are fun to watch and usually the players try to entertain the crowds (i am not saying these particular ones were so, but that is the standard). so, winning a few showmatches and no tournaments is not much of an accomplishment.
On August 23 2011 09:39 Kluey wrote: So he beat EG'iNcontroL and a held his own against Liquid`HuK(tt) but he's not accomplished much?
Beat iNcontroL in a Bo7 ONCE. Almost beat HuK ONCE. If he always beat iNcontroL in Bo7's and always did good against HuK he is accomplishing something.
On August 23 2011 06:09 Haegr9599 wrote: To be perfectly honest, and i know im going to get flamed lol, but i think that Destiny's playstyle is very 1 dimensional.
Yes, he managed to beat Bomber and Ace, but if he actually went out to Korea, or ran into them in an MLG and played them offline, i have no hesitation in saying that Destiny would lose. His style of play is so easily hardcountered and meta-gamed, espicially since it is such a unique style of play.
Additionally, and as Destiny has admitted himself, he will mix up his playstyle and play standard during a BoX, but Destiny has also admitted that his standard play is not as strong as his mass infestor style.
Furthermore, on the subject of the SotG hosts, specifically their success and their grounds to hate on Destiny, speficially Artosis and iNcontroL, who have not shown amazing results as of late, both are renowned BroodWar Players, which is arguably a much harder game than SC2, and neither of which are actually playing full time. Artosis is casting GSL, and iNcontrol just recently began to train full time again at the EG house w/ the rest of his teammates.
Also, on the subject of which team he would fit best in, i dont honestly know if he should be on a team. I understand that he has a large fanbase and that would help the team he joins, but his personality is very... far fetched(?) and unique to say the least. While some of the teams that you mentioned, such as vVv and Sixjax both have rather unique characters on their teams, (Major, im looking at you) im not sure that you can have multiple large scale personalities without instability.
Lastly, towards his potential as a player, he already plays/streams/practice/ladders etc etc at least 8+ hours a day, which is more than many people who are on a team, but yet still has not posted results. While practicing with a team CAN greatly improve your skill in the game (see ALL the korean houses, and partially the EG house), im not sure it would benefit destiny, assuming he chooses to stick with his Mass infestor playstyle, which he has already basically perfected to a science, and yet still has shown no results.
TL;DR: Put Destiny in a offline showmatch against Bomber or Ace or most other notables that he's played, and he will likely lose. Espicially if they are given a heads up ahead of time, becuase this will allow them to prepare for his style.
I dont know if you can hvae multiple personalites of Destiny's scale on the same team
SotG hosts are a bad exmaple, mostly becuase iNcontroL only recently started playing full time, and no one else on the show does play full time (tyler has said himself that he does not practice much)
His standard play is weaker than his mass infestor style
He has already imo practiced enough a day for long enough that he should be getting close to his potental as a player, and while a team does accelerate this, it would likely require him to switch styles, becuase he already has close to perfected his Ling/Infestor style.
Great Innovation =/= Great Player
He also has said that he doesnt want to join a team at the moment.
Edit: Disclaimer: I dont dislike Destiny, just arguing a point =P
2nd Edit: sorry for walls of text
Also you sir, are the first person I have ever seen that shares the same opinion <3
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament.
But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so.
Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny.
On August 23 2011 09:39 Kluey wrote: So he beat EG'iNcontroL and a held his own against Liquid`HuK(tt) but he's not accomplished much?
tournaments are accomplishments and count for something. showmatches are fun to watch and usually the players try to entertain the crowds (i am not saying these particular ones were so, but that is the standard). so, winning a few showmatches and no tournaments is not much of an accomplishment.
One dimensional playstyle defeats Koreans, news at 11. Old argument is old.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament.
But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so.
Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny.
I didn't know your Gold league friend sometimes beat Korean pros with his decision making, best Gold Leaguer, evarrr.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
except destinys multitasking is better than sjow and goody
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament.
But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so.
Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny.
decision making is such a bad term. He makes up for his mechanical shortcomings by devising strategies that suit his style just like Goody and Sjow do. Winning tournaments, again, isnt a requirement when u play zerg. It took dimaga a year to win a major tournament despite being the best foreigner zerg for the most of that period. Lets shit on dimaga now.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament.
But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so.
Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny.
decision making is such a bad term. He makes up for his mechanical shortcomings by devising strategies that suit his style just like Goody and Sjow do. Winning tournaments, again, isnt a requirement when u play zerg. It took dimaga a year to win a major tournament despite being the best foreigner zerg for the most of that period. Lets shit on dimaga now.
Before Dimaga won major tournaments, he constantly and insanely consistently got first/second/thirds at multiple weekly cups almost every single week. His achievements page on TLPD is 45 entries long. Destiny's isn't even 10% of that (though that is mostly due to him not entering in the cups) The point being Dimaga proved he was consistent and beating the top top level players long before he won a super major tournament
[spoiler] On August 23 2011 06:09 Haegr9599 wrote: ...
Furthermore, on the subject of the SotG hosts, specifically their success and their grounds to hate on Destiny, speficially Artosis and iNcontroL, who have not shown amazing results as of late, both are renowned BroodWar Players, which is arguably a much harder game than SC2, and neither of which are actually playing full time. Artosis is casting GSL, and iNcontrol just recently began to train full time again at the EG house w/ the rest of his teammates. ...
To be fair I don't remember them hating on destiny (correct me on this point if I'm wrong). Every time I heard them mention Destiny and laughing about it was because of the notion that his fans thought he was top tier and was gonna get top 8 in the next mlg or something. It was more making fun of his "fans" than his person but that's just my perception of those situations
On August 23 2011 08:13 Aquilla wrote: I do think destiny has skill. He might not be a top level player but I don't think anyone can get up there practicing on the ladder. Joining a team pushes you over that hump with the practice partners and shared strategies.
I think destiny should be given a chance but the team should set strict guidelines on the kind of behavior they expect from him. SC2 pros are starting to become superstars and all superstars should know how to put on a face for the camera and for the public. Same thing with sixjaxMajor: he has some public faux pas but Artosis talks to him and major learns. Then again I don't know if Destiny is the type to accept rebuking or even rules.
I don't mind Destiny's "BM" so much but there are other things that are more pressing to change. We all know that Destiny is very outspoken but some things cross the line. For example, bashing race and/or religion. Saying things like "F*** the Koreans" or "Everyone knows relgion is a joke" on stream are things that make teams no want you.
In a youtube vido, Artosis gets asked: "What do you think about recruiting Destiny" at which he repies, making a face: "nooooooooo..... I dont want to..." sixjax has Major who has a reputation of BM but for Artosis to be that against Destiny shows that Destiny is on a different level.
Still i do believe that Destiny should be on a team. People say that he abuses infestors and that hes a 1 trick pony but why not? it works for him on the ladder and in most games. If he joins a team and participates in more major tournaments, I'm sure that he will become more versatile. I'm sure if Destiny is willing to put in the effort and make sacrifices in his attitude then he can be a strong player on a strong team.
Good luck to Destiny
First of all Destiny is not BM at all (sometimes against players like Deezer or Combat or when he gets cheesed really hard but thats it). He is one of the most manner players out there. The only thing that "hurts" his reputation is that he uses some strong language on his stream (but never with the aim to offend anyone) and he has some strong viewpoints that he doesn't mind sharing. I think people should take a chill pill, listen to what he actually says (not just the words he uses) and realize he is a great stand up guy with a good attitude.
Maybe the reason Artosis reacted like that wasn't because of bm? Maybe he just didn't think Destiny was a good pickup from a talent point of view (maybe he had not seen his recent play?) Maybe he thought Destiny wouldn't fit well in the team? Maybe he knew Destiny didn't want to join a team and thus deemed it highly unlikely it would work out? That laugh could have meant a thousand things. It might just be him laughing at the question and how popular Destiny is so plz don't draw any conclusions from it.
I don't think Destiny should be on a team because at this point he clearly doesn't want to and you have to gel with the team to actually get anything out of it. He has some great friends on Col. which he can practice with and he plays on the Korean ladder. If he plays a lot that's enough practice already.
Also he hardly needs a team to become more versatile. Every build out there is pretty well known and he can easily practice playing standard if he wants to. He is also smart enough to "get" strategies, he doesn't need someone to teach them to him.
Should be noted that he beat ST Ace and Bomber while they were playing with lag and infestor ling is extremely rare to see in Korea so they probably hadn't played against it before. Props to him for beating them, but it's not a hugely impressive result when you consider the context imo...
I agree with Alex's rating.
Realistically none of the teams in your poll would be signing him anytime soon
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament.
But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so.
Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny.
decision making is such a bad term. He makes up for his mechanical shortcomings by devising strategies that suit his style just like Goody and Sjow do. Winning tournaments, again, isnt a requirement when u play zerg. It took dimaga a year to win a major tournament despite being the best foreigner zerg for the most of that period. Lets shit on dimaga now.
Before Dimaga won major tournaments, he constantly and insanely consistently got first/second/thirds at multiple weekly cups almost every single week. His achievements page on TLPD is 45 entries long. Destiny's isn't even 10% of that (though that is mostly due to him not entering in the cups) The point being Dimaga proved he was consistent and beating the top top level players long before he won a super major tournament
According to people in this thread, "Destiny is bad because he doesn't win tournaments"
In your post: "Dimaga hadn't won a tournament"
According to this thread: Dimaga is bad.
Haters going to hate, comparing Destiny to gold level players, beating so called "pro" players who consistently trash him over stream and even on TL in the past, having people laugh at the prospect of him being on their team when he's better than half the people on their team anyway. BM is not a valid reason, he doesn't BM as bad as half the people who have featured streams on TL, training isn't valid, he's been a good training partner in the past.
The one and only argument that you could use is hollow words without malicious intent behind them. OK guys. I haven't watched Destiny's stream in a few weeks but I went an checked it not to long ago and I didn't see him BM or even curse ONCE.
Axslav got 4th at IPL; maybe not a huge achievement but an achievement nonetheless
You can't just snipe players and then start calling people garbage. Oh wow, they had money to grab some contracts up! Yay!
That would be like if I made an NBA team, had enough money to recruit Kobe, Lebron, Dwane, Dwight and someone else and just stated everyone else garbage. Stupid.
On August 23 2011 10:26 Huggerz wrote: Should be noted that he beat ST Ace and Bomber while they were playing with lag and infestor ling is extremely rare to see in Korea so they probably hadn't played against it before. Props to him for beating them, but it's not a hugely impressive result when you consider the context imo...
I agree with Alex's rating.
Realistically none of the teams in your poll would be signing him anytime soon
I could see at least half of those teams signing Destiny, do you know how much money he makes? There is a reason he was featured on teamliquid when they noticed how many hits they wouldn't get -quite the booster at the forums and such either.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament.
But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so.
Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny.
decision making is such a bad term. He makes up for his mechanical shortcomings by devising strategies that suit his style just like Goody and Sjow do. Winning tournaments, again, isnt a requirement when u play zerg. It took dimaga a year to win a major tournament despite being the best foreigner zerg for the most of that period. Lets shit on dimaga now.
Before Dimaga won major tournaments, he constantly and insanely consistently got first/second/thirds at multiple weekly cups almost every single week. His achievements page on TLPD is 45 entries long. Destiny's isn't even 10% of that (though that is mostly due to him not entering in the cups) The point being Dimaga proved he was consistent and beating the top top level players long before he won a super major tournament
According to people in this thread, "Destiny is bad because he doesn't win tournaments"
In your post: "Dimaga hadn't won a tournament"
According to this thread: Dimaga is bad.
Haters going to hate, comparing Destiny to gold level players, beating so called "pro" players who consistently trash him over stream and even on TL in the past, having people laugh at the prospect of him being on their team when he's better than half the people on their team anyway. BM is not a valid reason, he doesn't BM as bad as half the people who have featured streams on TL, training isn't valid, he's been a good training partner in the past.
The one and only argument that you could use is hollow words without malicious intent behind them. OK guys. I haven't watched Destiny's stream in a few weeks but I went an checked it not to long ago and I didn't see him BM or even curse ONCE.
i think people are saying destiny does not have any achievements because he hasn't won any tournaments, not that he is bad. i think destiny is decent even without the tournament wins. i think his play has plateaued though because he doesn't have consistent practice partners and uses streamed laddering as his main source of play (most likely because of the necessary income, so no shame in this). i also think he could get on a team if he wants, but why would he? he is likely making more income than most players through his streaming; what will a team bring him if income is what he is looking for?
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament.
But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so.
Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny.
decision making is such a bad term. He makes up for his mechanical shortcomings by devising strategies that suit his style just like Goody and Sjow do. Winning tournaments, again, isnt a requirement when u play zerg. It took dimaga a year to win a major tournament despite being the best foreigner zerg for the most of that period. Lets shit on dimaga now.
Before Dimaga won major tournaments, he constantly and insanely consistently got first/second/thirds at multiple weekly cups almost every single week. His achievements page on TLPD is 45 entries long. Destiny's isn't even 10% of that (though that is mostly due to him not entering in the cups) The point being Dimaga proved he was consistent and beating the top top level players long before he won a super major tournament
According to people in this thread, "Destiny is bad because he doesn't win tournaments"
In your post: "Dimaga hadn't won a tournament"
According to this thread: Dimaga is bad.
Haters going to hate, comparing Destiny to gold level players, beating so called "pro" players who consistently trash him over stream and even on TL in the past, having people laugh at the prospect of him being on their team when he's better than half the people on their team anyway. BM is not a valid reason, he doesn't BM as bad as half the people who have featured streams on TL, training isn't valid, he's been a good training partner in the past.
The one and only argument that you could use is hollow words without malicious intent behind them. OK guys. I haven't watched Destiny's stream in a few weeks but I went an checked it not to long ago and I didn't see him BM or even curse ONCE.
i think people are saying destiny does not have any achievements because he hasn't won any tournaments, not that he is bad. i think destiny is decent even without the tournament wins. i think his play has plateaued though because he doesn't have consistent practice partners and uses streamed laddering as his main source of play (most likely because of the necessary income, so no shame in this). i also think he could get on a team if he wants, but why would he? he is likely making more income than most players through his streaming; what will a team bring him if income is what he is looking for?
I agree there's a good chance he doesn't want to be on a team even now and that's fine. I don't agree with all the hate he gets towards him though, like I said I haven't even been watching his stream in long while but people talk so much mad shit about him and most of it is exaggerations, lies or hearsay and I feel the need to defend him because I doubt he'd come to his own defense, not that he should or has too.
But really, comparing Destiny to gold level players, really?
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament.
But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so.
Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny.
decision making is such a bad term. He makes up for his mechanical shortcomings by devising strategies that suit his style just like Goody and Sjow do. Winning tournaments, again, isnt a requirement when u play zerg. It took dimaga a year to win a major tournament despite being the best foreigner zerg for the most of that period. Lets shit on dimaga now.
Before Dimaga won major tournaments, he constantly and insanely consistently got first/second/thirds at multiple weekly cups almost every single week. His achievements page on TLPD is 45 entries long. Destiny's isn't even 10% of that (though that is mostly due to him not entering in the cups) The point being Dimaga proved he was consistent and beating the top top level players long before he won a super major tournament
i think beating koreans pros who crushed foreigners at LAN events in bomber, ace, rain and so on is a pretty good proof of consistency. Point is destiny is as consistent as a zerg can be in teh brief period of time taht he has burst onto the scene. And i wasn't comparing Dimaga to Destiny, i was just pointing out that it is very hard to win tournaments as Zerg. Go compare kas's list of victories to dimagas. It's 62 entries and his moment in the spotlight began much later then Dimaga's. U people are so good at switching subjects at will;;
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament.
But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so.
Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny.
decision making is such a bad term. He makes up for his mechanical shortcomings by devising strategies that suit his style just like Goody and Sjow do. Winning tournaments, again, isnt a requirement when u play zerg. It took dimaga a year to win a major tournament despite being the best foreigner zerg for the most of that period. Lets shit on dimaga now.
Before Dimaga won major tournaments, he constantly and insanely consistently got first/second/thirds at multiple weekly cups almost every single week. His achievements page on TLPD is 45 entries long. Destiny's isn't even 10% of that (though that is mostly due to him not entering in the cups) The point being Dimaga proved he was consistent and beating the top top level players long before he won a super major tournament
According to people in this thread, "Destiny is bad because he doesn't win tournaments"
Axslav got 4th at IPL; maybe not a huge achievement but an achievement nonetheless
You can't just snipe players and then start calling people garbage. Oh wow, they had money to grab some contracts up! Yay!
That would be like if I made an NBA team, had enough team to recruit Kobe, Lebron, Dwane, Dwight and someone else and just started everyone else garbage. Stupid.
lol, I just said Dimaga won loads of tournaments with top tier players before he got a "major" result on the board (IEM)
And for the second quote... what? I was responding to the person saying that nobody on EG besides IdrA is good
[spoiler] On August 23 2011 06:09 Haegr9599 wrote: ...
Furthermore, on the subject of the SotG hosts, specifically their success and their grounds to hate on Destiny, speficially Artosis and iNcontroL, who have not shown amazing results as of late, both are renowned BroodWar Players, which is arguably a much harder game than SC2, and neither of which are actually playing full time. Artosis is casting GSL, and iNcontrol just recently began to train full time again at the EG house w/ the rest of his teammates. ...
People arent arguing that BroodWar was harder on the level that Inc and Artosis played. People are arguing it was harder on the pro level
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament.
But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so.
Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny.
decision making is such a bad term. He makes up for his mechanical shortcomings by devising strategies that suit his style just like Goody and Sjow do. Winning tournaments, again, isnt a requirement when u play zerg. It took dimaga a year to win a major tournament despite being the best foreigner zerg for the most of that period. Lets shit on dimaga now.
Before Dimaga won major tournaments, he constantly and insanely consistently got first/second/thirds at multiple weekly cups almost every single week. His achievements page on TLPD is 45 entries long. Destiny's isn't even 10% of that (though that is mostly due to him not entering in the cups) The point being Dimaga proved he was consistent and beating the top top level players long before he won a super major tournament
i think beating koreans pros who crushed foreigners at LAN events in bomber, ace, rain and so on is a pretty good proof of consistency.
He's beating bomber, rain, ace how consistently?
They've played what, 2 games a piece aside from rain? Consistency is the ability to beat players over and over and over and over again. Look at destiny's TLPD; He is beating an awesome player 1 minute and losing to a person I've never heard of the next. Dimaga has played hundreds of games and come out with an awesome record against top tier players in multiple matches and tournaments
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament.
But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so.
Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny.
decision making is such a bad term. He makes up for his mechanical shortcomings by devising strategies that suit his style just like Goody and Sjow do. Winning tournaments, again, isnt a requirement when u play zerg. It took dimaga a year to win a major tournament despite being the best foreigner zerg for the most of that period. Lets shit on dimaga now.
Before Dimaga won major tournaments, he constantly and insanely consistently got first/second/thirds at multiple weekly cups almost every single week. His achievements page on TLPD is 45 entries long. Destiny's isn't even 10% of that (though that is mostly due to him not entering in the cups) The point being Dimaga proved he was consistent and beating the top top level players long before he won a super major tournament
i think beating koreans pros who crushed foreigners at LAN events in bomber, ace, rain and so on is a pretty good proof of consistency.
He's beating bomber, rain, ace how consistently?
They've played what, 2 games a piece aside from rain? Consistency is the ability to beat players over and over and over and over again. Look at destiny's TLPD; He is beating an awesome player 1 minute and losing to a person I've never heard of the next. Dimaga has played hundreds of games and come out with an awesome record against top tier players in multiple matches and tournaments
I edited more into the post u quoted because for a second there i forgot that you brought up a completely unrelated point.
On August 22 2011 17:51 enecateReAP wrote: [quote]
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament.
But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so.
Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny.
decision making is such a bad term. He makes up for his mechanical shortcomings by devising strategies that suit his style just like Goody and Sjow do. Winning tournaments, again, isnt a requirement when u play zerg. It took dimaga a year to win a major tournament despite being the best foreigner zerg for the most of that period. Lets shit on dimaga now.
Before Dimaga won major tournaments, he constantly and insanely consistently got first/second/thirds at multiple weekly cups almost every single week. His achievements page on TLPD is 45 entries long. Destiny's isn't even 10% of that (though that is mostly due to him not entering in the cups) The point being Dimaga proved he was consistent and beating the top top level players long before he won a super major tournament
i think beating koreans pros who crushed foreigners at LAN events in bomber, ace, rain and so on is a pretty good proof of consistency.
He's beating bomber, rain, ace how consistently?
They've played what, 2 games a piece aside from rain? Consistency is the ability to beat players over and over and over and over again. Look at destiny's TLPD; He is beating an awesome player 1 minute and losing to a person I've never heard of the next. Dimaga has played hundreds of games and come out with an awesome record against top tier players in multiple matches and tournaments
I edited more into the post u quoted because for a second there i forgot that you brought up a completely unrelated point.
I still think you're just using the zerg thing a hell of a lot more as a crutch than it really is
On August 22 2011 14:54 Polskaa wrote: No offence Strifeco Machine Axlav
have no point to be on EG Destiny outstages them by a longshot especially Strifeco
Axslav beat Destiny at IPL. Destiny may be more popular but you can't just say he's better. I'd say Axslav, DeMu, and InControl are all within hitting range of Destiny in terms of skill level (all about equal), with Strifecro a step behind (and Machine and Lz about 50,000 steps behind).
That's not the point though.
For those who say Destiny and Idra are similar... well, they're both Zergs, both pretty good, both BM... but...
1) Idra is a better player. This is not debatable. Destiny took some games off great players but hasn't posted any real results. Idra, on the other hand, has won MLGs, still consistently finishes as a top 3 foreigner in MLG even with the Koreans around, had some decent Code S finishes, won IPL, etc. etc.
2) Idra is more valuable to EG in terms of marketability. When EG says Destiny's marketability is low, they mean it. Destiny is a popular player, but seeing as how the deal with Complexity didn't work out, we can assume that Destiny does not want to be doing non-game or coach related things. Idra is willing to show up on shows like Imbalanced, that DJWheat show (I don't watch these, sorry... don't know the name... Inside the Game?), and is willing to cast EG's team league and other things.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
Meh, I voted a 4 in terms of skill. One can not say that because he is good at 1, yes 1, strat, that he is a developed player. He's just not that good in my opinion.
On August 22 2011 14:54 Polskaa wrote: No offence Strifeco Machine Axlav
have no point to be on EG Destiny outstages them by a longshot especially Strifeco
Axslav beat Destiny at IPL. Destiny may be more popular but you can't just say he's better. I'd say Axslav, DeMu, and InControl are all within hitting range of Destiny in terms of skill level (all about equal), with Strifecro a step behind (and Machine and Lz about 50,000 steps behind).
That's not the point though.
For those who say Destiny and Idra are similar... well, they're both Zergs, both pretty good, both BM... but...
1) Idra is a better player. This is not debatable. Destiny took some games off great players but hasn't posted any real results. Idra, on the other hand, has won MLGs, still consistently finishes as a top 3 foreigner in MLG even with the Koreans around, had some decent Code S finishes, won IPL, etc. etc.
2) Idra is more valuable to EG in terms of marketability. When EG says Destiny's marketability is low, they mean it. Destiny is a popular player, but seeing as how the deal with Complexity didn't work out, we can assume that Destiny does not want to be doing non-game or coach related things. Idra is willing to show up on shows like Imbalanced, that DJWheat show (I don't watch these, sorry... don't know the name... Inside the Game?), and is willing to cast EG's team league and other things.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
Are you people out of your fucking minds ?
I don't necessarily think they are correct, but they aren't exaggerating as much as the people comparing Destiny to Gold level players.
Axslav got 4th at IPL; maybe not a huge achievement but an achievement nonetheless
Duh, HuK and Puma just signed in, you understood what he meant, for the most part EG has been a ''idra company'' and even idra still didnt produced a big result.
I don't see why his manners are such a thing. Its not like Destiny would bad manner any more than Idra would on stage. Online games are very different thing, and manners kind of don't matter that much when you have a slight feeling of anonymity - the fact that Destiny doesn't actually have to see the people he BMS. anyways, I think that aspect of Destiny, his funny BM side is what makes so many people watch him.
His is pretty skilled as well... I hope he gets picked up eventually by a team. I know he doesn't want to, but I feel that in order to win something big he needs to get some practice partners, team support etc etc. I believe he can do it though, win an MLG in 2012! Here's to you Destiny!
So are EG's other players all 9s/10s in Alex's book? I have a feeling Alex, just like many outspoken deniers of Destiny, feel threatened by him and make excuses like his personality get in the way; especially his honesty, which we all know bosses hate. The fact that he has beaten top Korean/Foreign players straight up and on the ladder should be an indicator he is a top tier player now. I don't think EGAlex can say all his players post better tournament/game records than Destiny either. As a business man, EGAlex I have to say is retarded. You mean to say you won't take the most prolific streamer on TL to your team because he's honest? Ever see what happens to someone's website when Steven mentions them?
I give him an 8, because he can hold his own against tier 1 players but his mechanics and adaptability are lacking. That's in no way to discredit his ability. If I have to compare his record to a Boxer or Nada, I have to give him an 8.
I would love to see Destiny on SlayerS. Not just to hang out with Cella, but as you may already know, Destiny has a reputation in Korea for his infestors. Not only would he be a great practice partner in that respect, but I think he could do well in GSL. Look at what Korea did for Jinro, QXC, Huk, Idra in BW/SC2, etc. Until another patch comes, you infestor whiners are gonna have to find a way to beat the Destiny style.
For those who complain about "racial slurs" from Destiny, I have never heard him be derogatory or bigoted towards anyone, on ladder or in a custom. In fact, he has gone through the trouble of responding to those allegations and analyzing in a logical way the use of offensive words. I have to say Destiny is much more mature intellectually than most SC2 pro gamers and people in general I have come across. For that, I highly value Destiny in the SC2 community and hope he can maintain a pro gaming career, with or without a team.
I enjoy watching Destiny play, especially when he and CombatEX start going off on each other. But calling people racial or homophobic slurs is why he isnt wanted by any team and his marketability is low.
Infestors are broken, Infested Terrans more so than fungal IMO, but they need to be changed. To his credit Destiny is attempting to learn new play styles.
As for EG comments, thats a joke, when you have the low caliber of players on your roster you shouldnt make comments about someone who was beating most of your players on ladder. InControl only gets seeded at MLG because he had a semi-decent finish at one of the early MLGs with out Koreans or any decent players. He is a free win for anyone of decent skill and is a waste of a slot. I dont understand EG they keep buying new and great players yet they keep the garbage too, they need to trim the fat and create a solid roster, especially with PUMA/HUK/IdrA planning on going to Korea, so they can compete in the GSTL.
On August 23 2011 10:22 Marsupian wrote: First of all Destiny is not BM at all (sometimes against players like Deezer or Combat or when he gets cheesed really hard but thats it). He is one of the most manner players out there. The only thing that "hurts" his reputation is that he uses some strong language on his stream (but never with the aim to offend anyone) and he has some strong viewpoints that he doesn't mind sharing. I think people should take a chill pill, listen to what he actually says (not just the words he uses) and realize he is a great stand up guy with a good attitude.
If he doesn't mean it, why does he continue to use words that most people find very offensive? Its fine that Destiny is on some crusade to tell the world that using racist and homophobic slurs is ok if you don't mean it, but that excuse simply doesn't work in the real world, i don't know how old Destiny or his fans are, but this kind of stuff is usually something you grow out of once you stop being a teenager. There are more than enough words in the vocabulary to express everything you want without resorting to the few that actually hard long negative meanings, no one is forcing him to change but it is also clear to everyone that he is going to keep being treated as a child by any team as long as he acts and speaks like one.
Destiny is a good player, he just doesn't have a lot of LAN experience. He can take games off anyone, and has proven himself to be better than some dedicated pro players like InControl (and to be honest, he's better than almost half of EG). But until he provides some tournament results, he'll be doubted.
I don't think Destiny is an amazing player. However, I think he's better than Incontroll 7 days a week. Some players get to be considered S-class foreigners without showing results, and I think that's bull.
So, with that out of the way, there are definitely teams that he'd be good enough to play on.
HOWEVER. While he was on ROOT he was very, very contrary to his coach on stream several times, and he renegged on a contract after ROOT deformed. I would never hire Destiny to be on my team UNLESS there are some strict penalties in the contract for leaving prematurely.
He's a very entertaining streamer. He is entertaining because of his random shenanigans and what not, not because of his skill. He beat Koreans who have no idea who he is or what his style is. I guarantee if he did a rematch against any of the notable Koreans you listed he would lose now that they know how to play against his style. Keep in mind I've been watching Destiny since before he was featured and still watch him now. He does interesting shit on his stream, but is a fairly weak player as far as "pro gamers" go.
Destiny doesn't need to be on a progamer team or be the best in the world to make money doing what he does. Really, he could wallow in mediocrity while playing an entertaining style and taking the occasional game off a good player to maintain his current fanbase and stream viewership. I'm not saying he -does- wallow in mediocrity, but the way Destiny runs his shit means that his income is not directly proportional to his skill or results.
Also, any sponsored team should be leery to take on Destiny and/or Destiny leery of joining them, because any situation involving sponsors would add some level of censorship to the things Destiny would be "allowed" to say.
Destiny doesn't need a team to keep making bucks. No team needs Destiny to improve or survive.
Him working as a sort of free agent is pretty cool, and I hope it stays that way
On August 23 2011 10:22 Marsupian wrote: First of all Destiny is not BM at all (sometimes against players like Deezer or Combat or when he gets cheesed really hard but thats it). He is one of the most manner players out there. The only thing that "hurts" his reputation is that he uses some strong language on his stream (but never with the aim to offend anyone) and he has some strong viewpoints that he doesn't mind sharing. I think people should take a chill pill, listen to what he actually says (not just the words he uses) and realize he is a great stand up guy with a good attitude.
If he doesn't mean it, why does he continue to use words that most people find very offensive? Its fine that Destiny is on some crusade to tell the world that using racist and homophobic slurs is ok if you don't mean it, but that excuse simply doesn't work in the real world, i don't know how old Destiny or his fans are, but this kind of stuff is usually something you grow out of once you stop being a teenager. There are more than enough words in the vocabulary to express everything you want without resorting to the few that actually hard long negative meanings, no one is forcing him to change but it is also clear to everyone that he is going to keep being treated as a child by any team as long as he acts and speaks like one.
Those words offend people because they choose to be offended. There's a million real problems in the World today that people could be putting that thought towards but they instead choose to become offended at a certain arrangement of letters.
That's literally all it is without intent behind it. That's something intelligent people understand, there really is no nicer way to say it than that. If you let words alone offend you without intent then you are not a smart person.
Of course, this is all my opinion. If this opinion makes me a child then so be it, I'll gladly embrace that title. I'm not going to speak for Destiny himself but I assume he feels the same way.
And just to preemptively dissuade any "on the job" comments from being posted -again-, it happens a lot, watching Basketball I've heard just about every person on my home team (The Lakers) say a racial slur, a homophobic slur and various other words and I'm pretty sure they aren't all racist homophobes, it isn't just my team either, or just that sport.
So just to review: If words offend you without ill intent behind them then that's your problem, not the person saying them. (If someone says the "N" word with malicious racial intent, I completely agree with you thought)
On August 23 2011 12:47 Shai wrote: I don't think Destiny is an amazing player. However, I think he's better than Incontroll 7 days a week. Some players get to be considered S-class foreigners without showing results, and I think that's bull.
So, with that out of the way, there are definitely teams that he'd be good enough to play on.
HOWEVER. While he was on ROOT he was very, very contrary to his coach on stream several times, and he renegged on a contract after ROOT deformed. I would never hire Destiny to be on my team UNLESS there are some strict penalties in the contract for leaving prematurely.
EDIT: Grammar
I totally understand that this doesn't change that he backed out of his contract, but unless things changed dramatically he did it at least mostly to make sure the rest of the ROOT players were accepted without issue. Again, I fully understand how that impacts his potential recruitment by a team though.
On August 23 2011 10:22 Marsupian wrote: First of all Destiny is not BM at all (sometimes against players like Deezer or Combat or when he gets cheesed really hard but thats it). He is one of the most manner players out there. The only thing that "hurts" his reputation is that he uses some strong language on his stream (but never with the aim to offend anyone) and he has some strong viewpoints that he doesn't mind sharing. I think people should take a chill pill, listen to what he actually says (not just the words he uses) and realize he is a great stand up guy with a good attitude.
If he doesn't mean it, why does he continue to use words that most people find very offensive? Its fine that Destiny is on some crusade to tell the world that using racist and homophobic slurs is ok if you don't mean it, but that excuse simply doesn't work in the real world, i don't know how old Destiny or his fans are, but this kind of stuff is usually something you grow out of once you stop being a teenager. There are more than enough words in the vocabulary to express everything you want without resorting to the few that actually hard long negative meanings, no one is forcing him to change but it is also clear to everyone that he is going to keep being treated as a child by any team as long as he acts and speaks like one.
Those words offend people because they choose to be offended. There's a million real problems in the World today that people could be putting that thought towards but they instead choose to become offended at a certain arrangement of letters.
That's literally all it is without intent behind it. That's something intelligent people understand, there really is no nicer way to say it than that. If you let words alone offend you without intent then you are not a smart person.
Of course, this is all my opinion. If this opinion makes me a child then so be it, I'll gladly embrace that title. I'm not going to speak for Destiny himself but I assume he feels the same way.
And just to preemptively dissuade any "on the job" comments from being posted -again-, it happens a lot, watching Basketball I've heard just about every person on my home team (The Lakers) say a racial slur, a homophobic slur and various other words and I'm pretty sure they aren't all racist homophobes, it isn't just my team either, or just that sport.
So just to review: If words offend you without ill intent behind them then that's your problem, not the person saying them. (If someone says the "N" word with malicious racial intent, I completely agree with you thought)
On August 23 2011 12:47 Shai wrote: I don't think Destiny is an amazing player. However, I think he's better than Incontroll 7 days a week. Some players get to be considered S-class foreigners without showing results, and I think that's bull.
So, with that out of the way, there are definitely teams that he'd be good enough to play on.
HOWEVER. While he was on ROOT he was very, very contrary to his coach on stream several times, and he renegged on a contract after ROOT deformed. I would never hire Destiny to be on my team UNLESS there are some strict penalties in the contract for leaving prematurely.
EDIT: Grammar
I totally understand that this doesn't change that he backed out of his contract, but unless things changed dramatically he did it at least mostly to make sure the rest of the ROOT players were accepted without issue. Again, I fully understand how that impacts his potential recruitment by a team though.
Mel Gibson supports this message: "I hope you're raped by a pack of niggers."
On August 23 2011 10:22 Marsupian wrote: First of all Destiny is not BM at all (sometimes against players like Deezer or Combat or when he gets cheesed really hard but thats it). He is one of the most manner players out there. The only thing that "hurts" his reputation is that he uses some strong language on his stream (but never with the aim to offend anyone) and he has some strong viewpoints that he doesn't mind sharing. I think people should take a chill pill, listen to what he actually says (not just the words he uses) and realize he is a great stand up guy with a good attitude.
If he doesn't mean it, why does he continue to use words that most people find very offensive? Its fine that Destiny is on some crusade to tell the world that using racist and homophobic slurs is ok if you don't mean it, but that excuse simply doesn't work in the real world, i don't know how old Destiny or his fans are, but this kind of stuff is usually something you grow out of once you stop being a teenager. There are more than enough words in the vocabulary to express everything you want without resorting to the few that actually hard long negative meanings, no one is forcing him to change but it is also clear to everyone that he is going to keep being treated as a child by any team as long as he acts and speaks like one.
Either you don't understand sarcasm and wit or you can't detect it on the internet very well. I can understand the second reasoning. Wasn't it George Carlin that said "everything is funny"?
What exactly is the point of this thread, other than expounding the marketability of Destiny? Does this really require a thread of itself; a somewhat roundabout way of advertisement that Destiny doesn't even seem to be interested in?
I'm just curious because there's quite a bit of arguing in here that really shouldn't exist. Especially the negative comments directed at Alex for answering a question in PM.
The only reason Destiny beats Koreans is because his play is unique and not seen on the KR Ladder. Beating iNcontroL 4-3 is no big feat, seeing as how IdrA beat him 2-0 in MLG.
On August 23 2011 13:23 JinDesu wrote: What exactly is the point of this thread, other than expounding the marketability of Destiny? Does this really require a thread of itself; a somewhat roundabout way of advertisement that Destiny doesn't even seem to be interested in?
I'm just curious because there's quite a bit of arguing in here that really shouldn't exist. Especially the negative comments directed at Alex for answering a question in PM.
The point of this thread is to discuss Destiny as a player, not just his marketability, but also how good he is.
If Alex didn't want what he said to be analyzed he shouldn't have responded to a random PM without saying to keep something hush hush and if it's something he's willing to so easily part with then it must not be some big secret.
On August 23 2011 13:24 WebsblobTwo wrote: The only reason Destiny beats Koreans is because his play is unique and not seen on the KR Ladder. Beating iNcontroL 4-3 is no big feat, seeing as how IdrA beat him 2-0 in MLG.
He has a unique style?! He must be awful! I do love, though, how IdrA beats him once and he's "bad", but he beats top Koreans once and it's "luck" or "omg unique playstyle, so gimmicky".
On August 23 2011 10:22 Marsupian wrote: First of all Destiny is not BM at all (sometimes against players like Deezer or Combat or when he gets cheesed really hard but thats it). He is one of the most manner players out there. The only thing that "hurts" his reputation is that he uses some strong language on his stream (but never with the aim to offend anyone) and he has some strong viewpoints that he doesn't mind sharing. I think people should take a chill pill, listen to what he actually says (not just the words he uses) and realize he is a great stand up guy with a good attitude.
If he doesn't mean it, why does he continue to use words that most people find very offensive? Its fine that Destiny is on some crusade to tell the world that using racist and homophobic slurs is ok if you don't mean it, but that excuse simply doesn't work in the real world, i don't know how old Destiny or his fans are, but this kind of stuff is usually something you grow out of once you stop being a teenager. There are more than enough words in the vocabulary to express everything you want without resorting to the few that actually hard long negative meanings, no one is forcing him to change but it is also clear to everyone that he is going to keep being treated as a child by any team as long as he acts and speaks like one.
Those words offend people because they choose to be offended. There's a million real problems in the World today that people could be putting that thought towards but they instead choose to become offended at a certain arrangement of letters.
That's literally all it is without intent behind it. That's something intelligent people understand, there really is no nicer way to say it than that. If you let words alone offend you without intent then you are not a smart person.
Of course, this is all my opinion. If this opinion makes me a child then so be it, I'll gladly embrace that title. I'm not going to speak for Destiny himself but I assume he feels the same way.
And just to preemptively dissuade any "on the job" comments from being posted -again-, it happens a lot, watching Basketball I've heard just about every person on my home team (The Lakers) say a racial slur, a homophobic slur and various other words and I'm pretty sure they aren't all racist homophobes, it isn't just my team either, or just that sport.
So just to review: If words offend you without ill intent behind them then that's your problem, not the person saying them. (If someone says the "N" word with malicious racial intent, I completely agree with you thought)
On August 23 2011 12:47 Shai wrote: I don't think Destiny is an amazing player. However, I think he's better than Incontroll 7 days a week. Some players get to be considered S-class foreigners without showing results, and I think that's bull.
So, with that out of the way, there are definitely teams that he'd be good enough to play on.
HOWEVER. While he was on ROOT he was very, very contrary to his coach on stream several times, and he renegged on a contract after ROOT deformed. I would never hire Destiny to be on my team UNLESS there are some strict penalties in the contract for leaving prematurely.
EDIT: Grammar
I totally understand that this doesn't change that he backed out of his contract, but unless things changed dramatically he did it at least mostly to make sure the rest of the ROOT players were accepted without issue. Again, I fully understand how that impacts his potential recruitment by a team though.
Mel Gibson supports this message: "I hope you're raped by a pack of niggers."
On August 23 2011 12:00 slytown wrote: So are EG's other players all 9s/10s in Alex's book? I have a feeling Alex, just like many outspoken deniers of Destiny, feel threatened by him and make excuses like his personality get in the way; especially his honesty, which we all know bosses hate. The fact that he has beaten top Korean/Foreign players straight up and on the ladder should be an indicator he is a top tier player now. I don't think EGAlex can say all his players post better tournament/game records than Destiny either. As a business man, EGAlex I have to say is retarded. You mean to say you won't take the most prolific streamer on TL to your team because he's honest? Ever see what happens to someone's website when Steven mentions them?
I give him an 8, because he can hold his own against tier 1 players but his mechanics and adaptability are lacking. That's in no way to discredit his ability. If I have to compare his record to a Boxer or Nada, I have to give him an 8.
I would love to see Destiny on SlayerS. Not just to hang out with Cella, but as you may already know, Destiny has a reputation in Korea for his infestors. Not only would he be a great practice partner in that respect, but I think he could do well in GSL. Look at what Korea did for Jinro, QXC, Huk, Idra in BW/SC2, etc. Until another patch comes, you infestor whiners are gonna have to find a way to beat the Destiny style.
For those who complain about "racial slurs" from Destiny, I have never heard him be derogatory or bigoted towards anyone, on ladder or in a custom. In fact, he has gone through the trouble of responding to those allegations and analyzing in a logical way the use of offensive words. I have to say Destiny is much more mature intellectually than most SC2 pro gamers and people in general I have come across. For that, I highly value Destiny in the SC2 community and hope he can maintain a pro gaming career, with or without a team.
On August 23 2011 13:23 JinDesu wrote: What exactly is the point of this thread, other than expounding the marketability of Destiny? Does this really require a thread of itself; a somewhat roundabout way of advertisement that Destiny doesn't even seem to be interested in?
I'm just curious because there's quite a bit of arguing in here that really shouldn't exist. Especially the negative comments directed at Alex for answering a question in PM.
The point of this thread is to discuss Destiny as a player, not just his marketability, but also how good he is.
If Alex didn't want what he said to be analyzed he shouldn't have responded to a random PM without saying to keep something hush hush and if it's something he's willing to so easily part with then it must not be some big secret.
On August 23 2011 13:24 WebsblobTwo wrote: The only reason Destiny beats Koreans is because his play is unique and not seen on the KR Ladder. Beating iNcontroL 4-3 is no big feat, seeing as how IdrA beat him 2-0 in MLG.
He has a unique style?! He must be awful! I do love, though, how IdrA beats him once and he's "bad", but he beats top Koreans once and it's "luck" or "omg unique playstyle, so gimmicky".
Which then brings me back to my point - is this even worth a thread on TL? I'm sure tons of people think he's special, and I've noticed tons of people don't think he's special, and I'm sure the TL mods would really appreciate people making a thread for whoever their hero is on the forums when it could have been a blog.
I don't think attacking Alex and his team is appropriate in this thread. His comments are his opinion, and disagreements do not automatically warrant insults (especially towards the weaker players on the team).
Destiny wins these show matches against Koreans because they don't know his style, then Destiny goes to a LAN and everyone knows he's going to go mass infestor and so he never gets very far.
On August 23 2011 13:23 JinDesu wrote: What exactly is the point of this thread, other than expounding the marketability of Destiny? Does this really require a thread of itself; a somewhat roundabout way of advertisement that Destiny doesn't even seem to be interested in?
I'm just curious because there's quite a bit of arguing in here that really shouldn't exist. Especially the negative comments directed at Alex for answering a question in PM.
The point of this thread is to discuss Destiny as a player, not just his marketability, but also how good he is.
I am pretty sure that is exactly what the fan club thread is for. Not quite sure this one has stayed active for so long, considering most "how good is X" threads get shut down quickly.
As for the quoting a Private Message to stir the discussion, Zlasher summed up my thought about 10 pages ago.
I really don't understand the cult-like following of people saying he should try out for Code A/join Slayers/etc. I used to watch him all the time because he did a variety of styles and was amusing, now he just does the same two base infestor into going around with "brofestor hit squads" every game and attempts to be super duper manner to make up for his earlier reputation as being BM. One in 10 games he does some kind of good harass or infestor micro and a video pops up on youtube and adds to his reputation.
I really just don't understand the cult following he has, all of his games look exactly the same to me and it seems like he's been hovering around 100 GM for an eternity but fans seem to consider one of the top zergs in the world. Why is this thread so large? Yes he is better than LZGamer (does that guy even play?) and some other EG members that were signed a long time ago back when they were considered decent and wouldn't have currently been signed. Saying "yeah but Destiny is better than those other guys you have!" is irrelevant to whether or not EG would prefer to sign him now or not. Who have EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Both amazing players. Maybe if their recent recruit was Johnny #42 in his Masters division that argument would have some merit.
On August 23 2011 13:23 JinDesu wrote: What exactly is the point of this thread, other than expounding the marketability of Destiny? Does this really require a thread of itself; a somewhat roundabout way of advertisement that Destiny doesn't even seem to be interested in?
I'm just curious because there's quite a bit of arguing in here that really shouldn't exist. Especially the negative comments directed at Alex for answering a question in PM.
The point of this thread is to discuss Destiny as a player, not just his marketability, but also how good he is.
I am pretty sure that is exactly what the fan club thread is for. Not quite sure this one has stayed active for so long, considering most "how good is X" threads get shut down quickly.
As for the quoting a Private Message to stir the discussion, Zlasher summed up my thought about 10 pages ago.
I'm pretty sure that isn't what fan club threads are for, at least not any that I've visited (Admittedly I haven't even peeked at Destiny's), of all the fan club threads I've visited (IdrA, LZ and WhiteRa) debating the skill level of said player wasn't allowed there, or at least got you yelled at.
It's great that someone summed up your thoughts 10 pages ago though, I'll just rehash my thoughts: If you are willing to tell some random person something over the internet and in addition to that not even ask for it to be kept hush hush then it must not be any kind of secret whatsoever.
On August 23 2011 13:23 JinDesu wrote: What exactly is the point of this thread, other than expounding the marketability of Destiny? Does this really require a thread of itself; a somewhat roundabout way of advertisement that Destiny doesn't even seem to be interested in?
I'm just curious because there's quite a bit of arguing in here that really shouldn't exist. Especially the negative comments directed at Alex for answering a question in PM.
The point of this thread is to discuss Destiny as a player, not just his marketability, but also how good he is.
If Alex didn't want what he said to be analyzed he shouldn't have responded to a random PM without saying to keep something hush hush and if it's something he's willing to so easily part with then it must not be some big secret.
On August 23 2011 13:24 WebsblobTwo wrote: The only reason Destiny beats Koreans is because his play is unique and not seen on the KR Ladder. Beating iNcontroL 4-3 is no big feat, seeing as how IdrA beat him 2-0 in MLG.
He has a unique style?! He must be awful! I do love, though, how IdrA beats him once and he's "bad", but he beats top Koreans once and it's "luck" or "omg unique playstyle, so gimmicky".
Which then brings me back to my point - is this even worth a thread on TL? I'm sure tons of people think he's special, and I've noticed tons of people don't think he's special, and I'm sure the TL mods would really appreciate people making a thread for whoever their hero is on the forums when it could have been a blog.
I don't think attacking Alex and his team is appropriate in this thread. His comments are his opinion, and disagreements do not automatically warrant insults (especially towards the weaker players on the team).
There are much, much less thread worthy topics that are currently being discussed on TL, at least in my opinion. I'm glad you have a direct line to the moderators to tell us what they are thinking though.
As for the post directly above my, I think it proves the point I was trying to make, haters gonna hate. He even makes the claim, "Look at all the Destiny fanboys"(Which he edited out), because clearly no one is attacking Destiny's skill level, character or credibility in this thread!
hahahahh destiny below average personality, lol, god this makes me mad, angry, and sad, that someone so big in the community can be so naive and sheepish in his views on destiny, thinking destiny's personality is bad for a team cause he's BM, is so infuriating, Idra says way worse things, people think steve spouts out mindless "bad" words for no reason and people like him for it, no he's incredibly honest, and one of the smartest man in the Sc comunity with the best logic.
all in all I'm just upset someone that big in the community is so ignorant about someone who is one of the most successful person in SC2, and he just assumes things without ever actually giving steve a chance, I've been watching steve since he had 7 viewers and he hasn't changed at all in his personality and theres a reason he is so popular and it's not cause he spouts off mindless garbage, the Sc community is smarter than that.
Thinking destiny is only popular for BM and mindless cursing is an insult to the SC community, because than it would endorse people like that being that steve is so popular, but we aren't we like him for his great personality and probably the best in this community and also a brilliant mind.
tl;dr destiny is so misunderstood by the bigwigs in e-sports
1) Major LAN/Online Tournament Results 2) Work Ethic/Natural Talent/Potential for Improvement 3) Marketability/Personality 4) Established Fan Base
I think it's weird that "EGalex" would rate Destiny so poorly in 1 and 3 given that more than half of EG's roster is people we haven't heard about in months and haven't accomplished anything in SC2.
Especially 3, how could a team which pays Idra many tens of thousands of dollars argue that Destiny's personality/marketability is bad. That's absurd. His following is entirely due to his personality and his marketability is incredibly good because of his personality ---> $$$.
On August 23 2011 13:23 JinDesu wrote: What exactly is the point of this thread, other than expounding the marketability of Destiny? Does this really require a thread of itself; a somewhat roundabout way of advertisement that Destiny doesn't even seem to be interested in?
I'm just curious because there's quite a bit of arguing in here that really shouldn't exist. Especially the negative comments directed at Alex for answering a question in PM.
The point of this thread is to discuss Destiny as a player, not just his marketability, but also how good he is.
I am pretty sure that is exactly what the fan club thread is for. Not quite sure this one has stayed active for so long, considering most "how good is X" threads get shut down quickly.
As for the quoting a Private Message to stir the discussion, Zlasher summed up my thought about 10 pages ago.
I'm pretty sure that isn't what fan club threads are for, at least not any that I've visited (Admittedly I haven't even peeked at Destiny's), of all the fan club threads I've visited (IdrA, LZ and WhiteRa) debating the skill level of said player wasn't allowed there, or at least got you yelled at.
It's great that someone summed up your thoughts 10 pages ago though, I'll just rehash my thoughts: If you are willing to tell some random person something over the internet and in addition to that not even ask for it to be kept hush hush then it must not be any kind of secret whatsoever.
On August 23 2011 13:23 JinDesu wrote: What exactly is the point of this thread, other than expounding the marketability of Destiny? Does this really require a thread of itself; a somewhat roundabout way of advertisement that Destiny doesn't even seem to be interested in?
I'm just curious because there's quite a bit of arguing in here that really shouldn't exist. Especially the negative comments directed at Alex for answering a question in PM.
The point of this thread is to discuss Destiny as a player, not just his marketability, but also how good he is.
If Alex didn't want what he said to be analyzed he shouldn't have responded to a random PM without saying to keep something hush hush and if it's something he's willing to so easily part with then it must not be some big secret.
On August 23 2011 13:24 WebsblobTwo wrote: The only reason Destiny beats Koreans is because his play is unique and not seen on the KR Ladder. Beating iNcontroL 4-3 is no big feat, seeing as how IdrA beat him 2-0 in MLG.
He has a unique style?! He must be awful! I do love, though, how IdrA beats him once and he's "bad", but he beats top Koreans once and it's "luck" or "omg unique playstyle, so gimmicky".
Which then brings me back to my point - is this even worth a thread on TL? I'm sure tons of people think he's special, and I've noticed tons of people don't think he's special, and I'm sure the TL mods would really appreciate people making a thread for whoever their hero is on the forums when it could have been a blog.
I don't think attacking Alex and his team is appropriate in this thread. His comments are his opinion, and disagreements do not automatically warrant insults (especially towards the weaker players on the team).
There are much, much less thread worthy topics that are currently being discussed on TL, at least in my opinion. I'm glad you have a direct line to the moderators to tell us what they are thinking though.
As for the post directly above my, I think it proves the point I was trying to make, haters gonna hate. He even makes the claim, "Look at all the Destiny fanboys"(Which he edited out), because clearly no one is attacking Destiny's skill level, character or credibility in this thread!
I edited it out because I knew fanboys such as yourself would focus solely on that and not address anything else. Yes, look at all the Destiny fanboys. I watched him for hours back when he had around 300 viewers and raged all game. Since the patch his playstyle is 2 base infestor every single time with mass spine crawler turtling into infestor/broodlord while he plays piano music and chitchats pleasantly because he's trying to get rid of his BM reputation. I'm not a Destiny hater, I'm a Destiny fan hater. Behind all the screaming and cute micro plays in the end his play is stagnant. Does he ever try to figure out how many drones he can make and when he can expand and be able to hold off one of a hundred terran pushes perfectly, like a Ret or IdrA? No, he just follows his build and sees if he wins. I'm not going to hate on him for that, but the ridiculousness of his fanbase (people actually thought EG would sign him?) tries to elevate him into something he just isn't.
He's not a valuable addition to a team and he's not particularly good at anything besides the one build he does every single time. But for some reason he has a cult of personality that will scream their love for him from the rooftops and make any thread about how professional teams don't think he's a good asset 22 pages.
1) Major LAN/Online Tournament Results 2) Work Ethic/Natural Talent/Potential for Improvement 3) Marketability/Personality 4) Established Fan Base
I think it's weird that "EGalex" would rate Destiny so poorly in 1 and 3 given that more than half of EG's rosters are people we haven't heard about in months and haven't accomplished anything in SC2.
Especially 3, how could a team which pays Idra many tens of thousands of dollars argue that Destiny's personality/marketability is bad. That's absurd. His following is entirely due to his personality and his marketability is incredibly good because of his personality ---> $$$.
More than half of that roster was also signed almost a year ago. I'm pretty sure EG is aware that Strifecro isn't going to win the GSL nowadays but they had something called a contract where that person is a member of your team until it expires. IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
On August 23 2011 13:23 JinDesu wrote: What exactly is the point of this thread, other than expounding the marketability of Destiny? Does this really require a thread of itself; a somewhat roundabout way of advertisement that Destiny doesn't even seem to be interested in?
I'm just curious because there's quite a bit of arguing in here that really shouldn't exist. Especially the negative comments directed at Alex for answering a question in PM.
The point of this thread is to discuss Destiny as a player, not just his marketability, but also how good he is.
I am pretty sure that is exactly what the fan club thread is for. Not quite sure this one has stayed active for so long, considering most "how good is X" threads get shut down quickly.
As for the quoting a Private Message to stir the discussion, Zlasher summed up my thought about 10 pages ago.
I'm pretty sure that isn't what fan club threads are for, at least not any that I've visited (Admittedly I haven't even peeked at Destiny's), of all the fan club threads I've visited (IdrA, LZ and WhiteRa) debating the skill level of said player wasn't allowed there, or at least got you yelled at.
It's great that someone summed up your thoughts 10 pages ago though, I'll just rehash my thoughts: If you are willing to tell some random person something over the internet and in addition to that not even ask for it to be kept hush hush then it must not be any kind of secret whatsoever.
On August 23 2011 13:36 JinDesu wrote:
On August 23 2011 13:29 HereticSaint wrote:
On August 23 2011 13:23 JinDesu wrote: What exactly is the point of this thread, other than expounding the marketability of Destiny? Does this really require a thread of itself; a somewhat roundabout way of advertisement that Destiny doesn't even seem to be interested in?
I'm just curious because there's quite a bit of arguing in here that really shouldn't exist. Especially the negative comments directed at Alex for answering a question in PM.
The point of this thread is to discuss Destiny as a player, not just his marketability, but also how good he is.
If Alex didn't want what he said to be analyzed he shouldn't have responded to a random PM without saying to keep something hush hush and if it's something he's willing to so easily part with then it must not be some big secret.
On August 23 2011 13:24 WebsblobTwo wrote: The only reason Destiny beats Koreans is because his play is unique and not seen on the KR Ladder. Beating iNcontroL 4-3 is no big feat, seeing as how IdrA beat him 2-0 in MLG.
He has a unique style?! He must be awful! I do love, though, how IdrA beats him once and he's "bad", but he beats top Koreans once and it's "luck" or "omg unique playstyle, so gimmicky".
Which then brings me back to my point - is this even worth a thread on TL? I'm sure tons of people think he's special, and I've noticed tons of people don't think he's special, and I'm sure the TL mods would really appreciate people making a thread for whoever their hero is on the forums when it could have been a blog.
I don't think attacking Alex and his team is appropriate in this thread. His comments are his opinion, and disagreements do not automatically warrant insults (especially towards the weaker players on the team).
There are much, much less thread worthy topics that are currently being discussed on TL, at least in my opinion. I'm glad you have a direct line to the moderators to tell us what they are thinking though.
As for the post directly above my, I think it proves the point I was trying to make, haters gonna hate. He even makes the claim, "Look at all the Destiny fanboys"(Which he edited out), because clearly no one is attacking Destiny's skill level, character or credibility in this thread!
I edited it out because I knew fanboys such as yourself would focus solely on that and not address anything else. Yes, look at all the Destiny fanboys. I watched him for hours back when he had around 300 viewers and raged all game. Since the patch his playstyle is 2 base infestor every single time with mass spine crawler turtling into infestor/broodlord while he plays piano music and chitchats pleasantly because he's trying to get rid of his BM reputation. I'm not a Destiny hater, I'm a Destiny fan hater as are most people.
He's not a valuable addition to a team and he's not particularly good at anything besides the one build he does every single time. But for some reason he has a cult of personality that will scream their love for him from the rooftops and make any thread about how professional teams don't think he's a good asset 22 pages.
1) Major LAN/Online Tournament Results 2) Work Ethic/Natural Talent/Potential for Improvement 3) Marketability/Personality 4) Established Fan Base
I think it's weird that "EGalex" would rate Destiny so poorly in 1 and 3 given that more than half of EG's rosters are people we haven't heard about in months and haven't accomplished anything in SC2.
Especially 3, how could a team which pays Idra many tens of thousands of dollars argue that Destiny's personality/marketability is bad. That's absurd. His following is entirely due to his personality and his marketability is incredibly good because of his personality ---> $$$.
More than half of that roster was also signed almost a year ago. I'm pretty sure EG is aware that Strifecro isn't going to win the GSL nowadays but they had something called a contract where that person is a member of your team until it expires. IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
I'm not going to mince words, if you think I'm a fanboy, you aren't very intelligent.. As said previously I haven't even watched his stream in several weeks and I've never been on his fan page, I couldn't even tell you what's on there.
But clearly you have amazing arguments. Yeah, he just started being a good manner player out of nowhere, because, while he doesn't even want to be on a team and according to all the haters that he aims for the "lowest common denominator", clearly that's why he's only suddenly become good mannered, because those fans enjoy it.
There's plenty of people who have put legitimate criticism of Destiny in this thread, and then there's several people like you. "OMG HE DISAGREES WITH ME FAAAAAAAAANBOI". I give up, you guys are right, this thread shouldn't exist.
On August 23 2011 14:15 Slago wrote: hahahahh destiny below average personality, lol, god this makes me mad, angry, and sad, that someone so big in the community can be so naive and sheepish in his views on destiny, thinking destiny's personality is bad for a team cause he's BM, is so infuriating, Idra says way worse things, people think steve spouts out mindless "bad" words for no reason and people like him for it, no he's incredibly honest, and one of the smartest man in the Sc comunity with the best logic.
all in all I'm just upset someone that big in the community is so ignorant about someone who is one of the most successful person in SC2, and he just assumes things without ever actually giving steve a chance, I've been watching steve since he had 7 viewers and he hasn't changed at all in his personality and theres a reason he is so popular and it's not cause he spouts off mindless garbage, the Sc community is smarter than that.
Thinking destiny is only popular for BM and mindless cursing is an insult to the SC community, because than it would endorse people like that being that steve is so popular, but we aren't we like him for his great personality and probably the best in this community and also a brilliant mind.
tl;dr destiny is so misunderstood by the bigwigs in e-sports
why are you so insulting to egalex who gave his honest opinion in a non-public pm? and why are you putting words in his mouth? he didn't say anything negative about destiny; he only gave his opinions, not the reasons for them.
i also dont get your whole "lets give steve a chance" bit. after root was bought out, he signed a contract and reneged on it for bullshit reasons. he had his chance and spat in the "big wigs' " face. fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
"most successful person in SC2" . . . what a joke. he is a decent player with a huge fan base. lets not exaggerate.
On August 23 2011 13:23 JinDesu wrote: What exactly is the point of this thread, other than expounding the marketability of Destiny? Does this really require a thread of itself; a somewhat roundabout way of advertisement that Destiny doesn't even seem to be interested in?
I'm just curious because there's quite a bit of arguing in here that really shouldn't exist. Especially the negative comments directed at Alex for answering a question in PM.
The point of this thread is to discuss Destiny as a player, not just his marketability, but also how good he is.
I am pretty sure that is exactly what the fan club thread is for. Not quite sure this one has stayed active for so long, considering most "how good is X" threads get shut down quickly.
As for the quoting a Private Message to stir the discussion, Zlasher summed up my thought about 10 pages ago.
I'm pretty sure that isn't what fan club threads are for, at least not any that I've visited (Admittedly I haven't even peeked at Destiny's), of all the fan club threads I've visited (IdrA, LZ and WhiteRa) debating the skill level of said player wasn't allowed there, or at least got you yelled at.
It's great that someone summed up your thoughts 10 pages ago though, I'll just rehash my thoughts: If you are willing to tell some random person something over the internet and in addition to that not even ask for it to be kept hush hush then it must not be any kind of secret whatsoever.
On August 23 2011 13:36 JinDesu wrote:
On August 23 2011 13:29 HereticSaint wrote:
On August 23 2011 13:23 JinDesu wrote: What exactly is the point of this thread, other than expounding the marketability of Destiny? Does this really require a thread of itself; a somewhat roundabout way of advertisement that Destiny doesn't even seem to be interested in?
I'm just curious because there's quite a bit of arguing in here that really shouldn't exist. Especially the negative comments directed at Alex for answering a question in PM.
The point of this thread is to discuss Destiny as a player, not just his marketability, but also how good he is.
If Alex didn't want what he said to be analyzed he shouldn't have responded to a random PM without saying to keep something hush hush and if it's something he's willing to so easily part with then it must not be some big secret.
On August 23 2011 13:24 WebsblobTwo wrote: The only reason Destiny beats Koreans is because his play is unique and not seen on the KR Ladder. Beating iNcontroL 4-3 is no big feat, seeing as how IdrA beat him 2-0 in MLG.
He has a unique style?! He must be awful! I do love, though, how IdrA beats him once and he's "bad", but he beats top Koreans once and it's "luck" or "omg unique playstyle, so gimmicky".
Which then brings me back to my point - is this even worth a thread on TL? I'm sure tons of people think he's special, and I've noticed tons of people don't think he's special, and I'm sure the TL mods would really appreciate people making a thread for whoever their hero is on the forums when it could have been a blog.
I don't think attacking Alex and his team is appropriate in this thread. His comments are his opinion, and disagreements do not automatically warrant insults (especially towards the weaker players on the team).
There are much, much less thread worthy topics that are currently being discussed on TL, at least in my opinion. I'm glad you have a direct line to the moderators to tell us what they are thinking though.
As for the post directly above my, I think it proves the point I was trying to make, haters gonna hate. He even makes the claim, "Look at all the Destiny fanboys"(Which he edited out), because clearly no one is attacking Destiny's skill level, character or credibility in this thread!
I edited it out because I knew fanboys such as yourself would focus solely on that and not address anything else. Yes, look at all the Destiny fanboys. I watched him for hours back when he had around 300 viewers and raged all game. Since the patch his playstyle is 2 base infestor every single time with mass spine crawler turtling into infestor/broodlord while he plays piano music and chitchats pleasantly because he's trying to get rid of his BM reputation. I'm not a Destiny hater, I'm a Destiny fan hater as are most people.
He's not a valuable addition to a team and he's not particularly good at anything besides the one build he does every single time. But for some reason he has a cult of personality that will scream their love for him from the rooftops and make any thread about how professional teams don't think he's a good asset 22 pages.
On August 23 2011 14:16 Djzapz wrote:
1) Major LAN/Online Tournament Results 2) Work Ethic/Natural Talent/Potential for Improvement 3) Marketability/Personality 4) Established Fan Base
I think it's weird that "EGalex" would rate Destiny so poorly in 1 and 3 given that more than half of EG's rosters are people we haven't heard about in months and haven't accomplished anything in SC2.
Especially 3, how could a team which pays Idra many tens of thousands of dollars argue that Destiny's personality/marketability is bad. That's absurd. His following is entirely due to his personality and his marketability is incredibly good because of his personality ---> $$$.
More than half of that roster was also signed almost a year ago. I'm pretty sure EG is aware that Strifecro isn't going to win the GSL nowadays but they had something called a contract where that person is a member of your team until it expires. IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
I'm not going to mince words, if you think I'm a fanboy, you aren't very intelligent.. As said previously I haven't even watched his stream in several weeks and I've never been on his fan page, I couldn't even tell you what's on there.
But clearly you have amazing arguments. Yeah, he just started being a good manner player out of nowhere, because, while he doesn't even want to be on a team and according to all the haters that he aims for the "lowest common denominator", clearly that's why he's only suddenly become good mannered, because those fans enjoy it.
There's plenty of people who have put legitimate criticism of Destiny in this thread, and then there's several people like you. "OMG HE DISAGREES WITH ME FAAAAAAAAANBOI". I give up, you guys are right, this thread shouldn't exist.
Okay, thank you for your opinion. I never hated on Destiny at all in this thread, I told the truth---that he is a mediocre player that does the same thing over and over and besides his popularity has nothing to add to a team. When, for instance, even in the Root days did you see him come out in a clan war? When was he the go-to training partner for the big names on the team like Kiwikaki? He was always just an amusing personality (and EG has IdrA and Incontrol for that). I was laughing at his ridiculous fanboys who have made this thread what it is. If you aren't one, congratulations.
We can both agree that this thread shouldn't exist. You also appear to have given up (not exactly sure on what) so goodbye.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
I'm sure the Destiny fansquad will come shit on me for this but the truth is he's an absolute brat. Watching how he handled that kid who would shut down his stream every once in a while was absolutely fucking embarassing. Yes, the kid who was DDoS'ing was in the wrong, but he was also like 17 and an idiot. Destiny, in that youtube recorded video, sounds like a little kid himself, making ridiculous your mom jokes and saying flat out immature shit that i wouldn't expect from anyone past high school MUCH LESS married. Really unlikeable personality
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of ROOT... I don't mean to be rude but... you know - Kiwi didn't follow and he's the best player they had by a fair margin, IMO. coL is not a small team and they were fine signing players with a not-particularly-impressive curriculum. They probably would have been happy to keep Destiny.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
What about it? The people that were on coL before the merger aren't that great, they were around equal level teams but coL had better financial security. I just watched Minigun 6-0 Trimaster or something a day or two ago and I can't think of anyone on there that would have been considered good? Cruncher is considered pretty decent I suppose? coL is a good example of a team that Destiny would fit in well, I agree. EG is not.
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
What about it? The people that were on coL before the merger aren't that great, they were around equal level teams but coL had better financial security. I just watched Minigun 6-0 Trimaster or something a day or two ago and I can't think of anyone on there that would have been considered good? Cruncher is considered pretty decent I suppose?
I'm just saying Destiny is definitely employable. Good enough for one and easily charismatic enough. Of course we can go and compare him to even better, more valuable players but that would be missing the point.
(Also I view Minigun as an underrated player who's yet to prove that he's good. He could turn out to be pretty surprising.)
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
What about it? The people that were on coL before the merger aren't that great, they were around equal level teams but coL had better financial security. I just watched Minigun 6-0 Trimaster or something a day or two ago and I can't think of anyone on there that would have been considered good? Cruncher is considered pretty decent I suppose?
I'm just saying Destiny is definitely employable. Good enough for one and easily charismatic enough. Of course we can go and compare him to even better, more valuable players but that would be missing the point.
(Also I view Minigun as an underrated player who's yet to prove that he's good. He could turn out to be pretty surprising.)
On August 22 2011 13:49 crms wrote: id love to see his rankings of some of the members on his own team....
Exactly. Inc/machine only ever seem to lose at mlg.....
Better than the other ones who stay home.
Well yeah, I was never arguing that Destiny wouldn't fit in on a place like coL. It's a decent NA team and he's a decent NA player.
And yes, Minigun is very good, pretty easy to follow his strategies and playstyle because of his low APM that makes it easy to mimic for lesser players. I think he's shown that he's a pretty good player, probably the best player from Root under Kiwikaki and equal to or a bit worse than Slush and one of the best on coL.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
If destiny decides not to join col. I doubt he will EVER consider EG, even if they do consider picking him up.
And with the amount of money he makes streaming (I assume it's much higher than before since he used to pull only 3.5k viewers on average, but right now as of me typing, he has around 9k viewers), even if they give him a Huk contract, which they won't and shouldn't, there still won't be enough monetary incentive for him to join.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
He is a good player, not just because of infestors. he is good at using other units as well, but infestors really is just the one that differentiate from other players. I have seen SlayerS_Golden using the same style but he didn't achieve the same level of success (he wins, but it is clear that he can't be as creative as Destiny with infestors) For a build that is so heavily revolve around a unit, there is a strong flaw tagged along with it. This is no different.
I rate him a 6 or 7 depending on what level you are looking at. Comparing against top korean, he is probably more like a 5 or 6 (as in he can win some games but not that close to being at the top level consistently) At foreign level, he is probably a 6 to 7, he just isn't able to bring out a good tournament result.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
whether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play.
Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half)
As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
whether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
It's not an ad populum logical fallacy in this case since popularity // having a viewership kinda means that you're doing something right.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play.
Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half)
As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels.
I don't watch all day though.
There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
whether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
Uhuh? Read the post im replying to before you post plz? He mentioned slayersdragon for skill AND entertainment.
You said he's popularity has nothing to do with his skills, but which part of my post I mentioned his skills? Of course he's not top tier, I didn't say he is.
But EG rating him as 4 and think he doesn't fit in the team?
LOL you mean the team "Idra and friends" where half of their team, according to his own scale, would get a 1/10?
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
whether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
Uhuh? Read the post im replying to before you post plz? He mentioned slayersdragon for skill AND entertainment.
You said he's popularity has nothing to do with his skills, but which part of my post I mentioned his skills? Of course he's not top tier, I didn't say he is.
But EG rating him as 4 and think he doesn't fit in the team?
LOL you mean the team "Idra and friends" where half of their team, according to his own scale, would get a 1/10?
What?
And IdrA and friends know half of their team is weak, that's why they have a training house and acknowledge they aren't amazing. Where does EGAlex call Incontrol a 9? He doesn't fit in the team's FUTURE plans, people like LZ Gamer are the PAST. They can acquire top level players like Huk and Puma so Destiny as a new recruit is a 4/10 on the "how much does this appeal to me scale" whereas Huk and Puma are much higher. You're just personally attacking EG's B-team that was considered skilled all the way back when they WERE recruited and are now currently under contract.
Try using a bit of logic instead of seeing red whenever someone criticizes Destiny.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play.
Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half)
As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels.
I don't watch all day though.
There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
1, cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player
Can you quote someone actually saying he is as good as Idra or even Sheth?
If not then you should stop putting up these straw man arguements.
2, bashing EG for underrating him
Not bashing EG for underrating, but bashing EG because half of their team gets half the score comparing to his own categories, this is not player bashing, but come on, EGLzgamer isn't even in GM......
3, Are you complaining about people liking something more than what you like, and arguing that for some reason they shouldn't?
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play.
Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half)
As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels.
I don't watch all day though.
There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
Well, I consider myself to be a fan of Destiny. Not a "fanboy", I guess, because I think I'm sane, but I certainly have been "defending him" here even though I need to go to bed (which I'm going to do after I finish writing this post). I would do the same thing if people spoke ill of Idra, Naniwa, Sheth, Tyler or any one of the players I particularly like. I guess I kind of take it personally because you seem to have a pretty negative opinion of his playstyle and especially of his viewer-base. Maybe I shouldn't bother, but that's me - I'm a carebear and I don't get you.
Also comparing Destiny and Whitera doesn't quite make sense to me. They're not in the same league at all and their personalities are almost opposites. The only thing I can think about is the "special tactics" which are basically a show.
There are grounds to criticize Destiny's fanboys though, I'll give you that - and I'm certain he would give you that too. Entertainers all have a few drooling idiots under their wings.
I'll check back here tomorrow but it'll probably be old news by then. Good night.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
whether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
Uhuh? Read the post im replying to before you post plz? He mentioned slayersdragon for skill AND entertainment.
You said he's popularity has nothing to do with his skills, but which part of my post I mentioned his skills? Of course he's not top tier, I didn't say he is.
But EG rating him as 4 and think he doesn't fit in the team?
LOL you mean the team "Idra and friends" where half of their team, according to his own scale, would get a 1/10?
actually, based on TLPD's elo ranking, every single EG player has had a higher elo peak than destiny.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play.
Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half)
As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels.
I don't watch all day though.
There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
1, cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player
Can you quote someone actually saying he is as good as Idra or even Sheth?
If not then you should stop putting up these straw man arguements.
2, bashing EG for underrating him
Not bashing EG for underrating, but bashing EG because half of their team gets half the score comparing to his own categories, this is not player bashing, but come on, EGLzgamer isn't even in GM......
3, Are you complaining about people liking something more than what you like, and arguing that for some reason they shouldn't?
1) Read a few pages of this thread where people say he would be a good addition to Slayers, could participate in GSL Code A, is on Korean level due to beating Ace and Bomber, etc. 2) Lzgamer was good in his time and is now currently under a contract, as are all other underperforming players. Half of their contracted team not meeting their current standards for recruitment has nothing to do with anything and is just an attack on EG. 3) No.
On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote: [quote] Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
whether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
Uhuh? Read the post im replying to before you post plz? He mentioned slayersdragon for skill AND entertainment.
You said he's popularity has nothing to do with his skills, but which part of my post I mentioned his skills? Of course he's not top tier, I didn't say he is.
But EG rating him as 4 and think he doesn't fit in the team?
LOL you mean the team "Idra and friends" where half of their team, according to his own scale, would get a 1/10?
actually, based on TLPD's elo ranking, every single EG player has had a higher elo peak than destiny.
Was going to go but I have to point out, how many Craftscup has Destiny participated in? ELO is not a good gauge when it's fairly easy to boost it (in the low ranks anyway) by playing in easy tournaments.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
whether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
Uhuh? Read the post im replying to before you post plz? He mentioned slayersdragon for skill AND entertainment.
You said he's popularity has nothing to do with his skills, but which part of my post I mentioned his skills? Of course he's not top tier, I didn't say he is.
But EG rating him as 4 and think he doesn't fit in the team?
LOL you mean the team "Idra and friends" where half of their team, according to his own scale, would get a 1/10?
actually, based on TLPD's elo ranking, every single EG player has had a higher elo peak than destiny.
Was going to go but I have to point out, how many Craftscup has Destiny participated in? ELO is not a good gauge when it's fairly easy to boost it (in the low ranks anyway) by playing in easy tournaments.
what objective measurement of skill would you prefer?
On August 23 2011 15:51 G0dly wrote: destiny's got a large dedicated following, every perceived attack on him will instantly get made into a much bigger deal than it really is.
I mean, it's a (single) esports manager who is giving his honest opinion on a player and all of a sudden it's a good ol' bash EG time.
I like Destiny, he's a funny guy, I watch his stream occasionally, but when EG's recruiting players like Huk and Puma, Destiny's rating makes sense.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Properly? He just blindly sends burrowed infestors into his enemies base. Either the opponent ignores infestors and ignorantly loses to them, or they counter the infestors, Destiny cries about protoss and promptly quits the game.
He has less build variety than BW Idra and has a louder mouth. EG's ranking of Destiny isn't comparing him to LZ or Incontrol, it's compared to players like HuK and Puma.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play.
Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half)
As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels.
I don't watch all day though.
There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
Well, I consider myself to be a fan of Destiny. Not a "fanboy", I guess, because I think I'm sane, but I certainly have been "defending him" here even though I need to go to bed (which I'm going to do after I finish writing this post). I would do the same thing if people spoke ill of Idra, Naniwa, Sheth, Tyler or any one of the players I particularly like. I guess I kind of take it personally because you seem to have a pretty negative opinion of his playstyle and especially of his viewer-base. Maybe I shouldn't bother, but that's me - I'm a carebear and I don't get you.
Also comparing Destiny and Whitera doesn't quite make sense to me. They're not in the same league at all and their personalities are almost opposites. The only thing I can think about is the "special tactics" which are basically a show.
There are grounds to criticize Destiny's fanboys though, I'll give you that - and I'm certain he would give you that too. Entertainers all have a few drooling idiots under their wings.
I'll check back here tomorrow but it'll probably be old news by then. Good night.
I just think Destiny is a boring and fairly gimmicky player. Making infestors isn't a gimmick but the way he plays is. Blindly throw down spine crawlers, turtling with infestors, barely ever attempting to scout except with burrowed infestors, etc. There seems to be no attempt to actually try and figure things out on a deep level, just "pimpest play" your way through the game. When someone like IdrA talks about his play you go "oh, so he made exactly 13 drones at this timing for that exact reason. While he might be getting a bit better at "pimpest playing" his way through a situation he will never be a Ret.
I compare Destiny to much less accomplished WhiteRa because both are known for breaking the norms of their race with "special tactics" and because of their personalities attracting a lot of followers even if they are polar opposites.
On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote: [quote] Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play.
Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half)
As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels.
I don't watch all day though.
There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
Well, I consider myself to be a fan of Destiny. Not a "fanboy", I guess, because I think I'm sane, but I certainly have been "defending him" here even though I need to go to bed (which I'm going to do after I finish writing this post). I would do the same thing if people spoke ill of Idra, Naniwa, Sheth, Tyler or any one of the players I particularly like. I guess I kind of take it personally because you seem to have a pretty negative opinion of his playstyle and especially of his viewer-base. Maybe I shouldn't bother, but that's me - I'm a carebear and I don't get you.
Also comparing Destiny and Whitera doesn't quite make sense to me. They're not in the same league at all and their personalities are almost opposites. The only thing I can think about is the "special tactics" which are basically a show.
There are grounds to criticize Destiny's fanboys though, I'll give you that - and I'm certain he would give you that too. Entertainers all have a few drooling idiots under their wings.
I'll check back here tomorrow but it'll probably be old news by then. Good night.
I just think Destiny is a boring and fairly gimmicky player. Making infestors isn't a gimmick but the way he plays is. Blindly throw down spine crawlers, turtling with infestors, barely ever attempting to scout except with burrowed infestors, etc. There seems to be no attempt to actually try and figure things out on a deep level, just "pimpest play" your way through the game. When someone like IdrA talks about his play you go "oh, so he made exactly 13 drones at this timing for that exact reason. While he might be getting a bit better at "pimpest playing" his way through a situation he will never be a Ret.
I compare Destiny to much less accomplished WhiteRa because both are known for breaking the norms of their race with "special tactics" and because of their personalities attracting a lot of followers even if they are polar opposites.
wait. did you seriously compare destiny to white-ra? one of the oldest and most respected bw players....
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play.
Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half)
As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels.
I don't watch all day though.
There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
Well, I consider myself to be a fan of Destiny. Not a "fanboy", I guess, because I think I'm sane, but I certainly have been "defending him" here even though I need to go to bed (which I'm going to do after I finish writing this post). I would do the same thing if people spoke ill of Idra, Naniwa, Sheth, Tyler or any one of the players I particularly like. I guess I kind of take it personally because you seem to have a pretty negative opinion of his playstyle and especially of his viewer-base. Maybe I shouldn't bother, but that's me - I'm a carebear and I don't get you.
Also comparing Destiny and Whitera doesn't quite make sense to me. They're not in the same league at all and their personalities are almost opposites. The only thing I can think about is the "special tactics" which are basically a show.
There are grounds to criticize Destiny's fanboys though, I'll give you that - and I'm certain he would give you that too. Entertainers all have a few drooling idiots under their wings.
I'll check back here tomorrow but it'll probably be old news by then. Good night.
I just think Destiny is a boring and fairly gimmicky player. Making infestors isn't a gimmick but the way he plays is. Blindly throw down spine crawlers, turtling with infestors, barely ever attempting to scout except with burrowed infestors, etc. There seems to be no attempt to actually try and figure things out on a deep level, just "pimpest play" your way through the game. When someone like IdrA talks about his play you go "oh, so he made exactly 13 drones at this timing for that exact reason. While he might be getting a bit better at "pimpest playing" his way through a situation he will never be a Ret.
I compare Destiny to much less accomplished WhiteRa because both are known for breaking the norms of their race with "special tactics" and because of their personalities attracting a lot of followers even if they are polar opposites.
wait. did you seriously compare destiny to white-ra? one of the oldest and most respected bw players....
Yes? I did it as a throw away comment in regards to fanbase loyalty and how Destiny does many of the things that make WhiteRa such an appealing player, how is that a problem? I was giving a potential reasoning behind why he would have a rabid fanclub by finding comparisons to another famous player with a large fanbase. What's the number of fans that love him for being an old school BW player opposed to the people who love him for his special tactics and funny personality?
On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote: [quote] Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play.
Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half)
As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels.
I don't watch all day though.
There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
Well, I consider myself to be a fan of Destiny. Not a "fanboy", I guess, because I think I'm sane, but I certainly have been "defending him" here even though I need to go to bed (which I'm going to do after I finish writing this post). I would do the same thing if people spoke ill of Idra, Naniwa, Sheth, Tyler or any one of the players I particularly like. I guess I kind of take it personally because you seem to have a pretty negative opinion of his playstyle and especially of his viewer-base. Maybe I shouldn't bother, but that's me - I'm a carebear and I don't get you.
Also comparing Destiny and Whitera doesn't quite make sense to me. They're not in the same league at all and their personalities are almost opposites. The only thing I can think about is the "special tactics" which are basically a show.
There are grounds to criticize Destiny's fanboys though, I'll give you that - and I'm certain he would give you that too. Entertainers all have a few drooling idiots under their wings.
I'll check back here tomorrow but it'll probably be old news by then. Good night.
I just think Destiny is a boring and fairly gimmicky player. Making infestors isn't a gimmick but the way he plays is. Blindly throw down spine crawlers, turtling with infestors, barely ever attempting to scout except with burrowed infestors, etc. There seems to be no attempt to actually try and figure things out on a deep level, just "pimpest play" your way through the game. When someone like IdrA talks about his play you go "oh, so he made exactly 13 drones at this timing for that exact reason. While he might be getting a bit better at "pimpest playing" his way through a situation he will never be a Ret.
I compare Destiny to much less accomplished WhiteRa because both are known for breaking the norms of their race with "special tactics" and because of their personalities attracting a lot of followers even if they are polar opposites.
wait. did you seriously compare destiny to white-ra? one of the oldest and most respected bw players....
Yes? I did it as a throw away comment in regards to fanbase loyalty and how Destiny does many of the things that make WhiteRa such an appealing player, how is that a problem? I was giving a potential reasoning behind why he would have a rabid fanclub by finding comparisons to another famous player with a large fanbase.
not sure what his problem is, but my problem is this: "I compare Destiny to much less accomplished WhiteRa"
I think even in SC2, WhiteRa accomplished much more than Destiny. If you consider his accomplishements in SC1, then he's the more accomplished player by far. :-(
But Destiny does have pro-level mechanics. Sure he needs more diversity. Everyone knows Destiny = Infestors. But you could say the same about Goody and Siege Tanks.
It's only a matter of time before he starts showing results, because he clearly has the skill.
On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote: [quote] Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play.
Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half)
As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels.
I don't watch all day though.
There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
Well, I consider myself to be a fan of Destiny. Not a "fanboy", I guess, because I think I'm sane, but I certainly have been "defending him" here even though I need to go to bed (which I'm going to do after I finish writing this post). I would do the same thing if people spoke ill of Idra, Naniwa, Sheth, Tyler or any one of the players I particularly like. I guess I kind of take it personally because you seem to have a pretty negative opinion of his playstyle and especially of his viewer-base. Maybe I shouldn't bother, but that's me - I'm a carebear and I don't get you.
Also comparing Destiny and Whitera doesn't quite make sense to me. They're not in the same league at all and their personalities are almost opposites. The only thing I can think about is the "special tactics" which are basically a show.
There are grounds to criticize Destiny's fanboys though, I'll give you that - and I'm certain he would give you that too. Entertainers all have a few drooling idiots under their wings.
I'll check back here tomorrow but it'll probably be old news by then. Good night.
I just think Destiny is a boring and fairly gimmicky player. Making infestors isn't a gimmick but the way he plays is. Blindly throw down spine crawlers, turtling with infestors, barely ever attempting to scout except with burrowed infestors, etc. There seems to be no attempt to actually try and figure things out on a deep level, just "pimpest play" your way through the game. When someone like IdrA talks about his play you go "oh, so he made exactly 13 drones at this timing for that exact reason. While he might be getting a bit better at "pimpest playing" his way through a situation he will never be a Ret.
I compare Destiny to much less accomplished WhiteRa because both are known for breaking the norms of their race with "special tactics" and because of their personalities attracting a lot of followers even if they are polar opposites.
wait. did you seriously compare destiny to white-ra? one of the oldest and most respected bw players....
Yes? I did it as a throw away comment in regards to fanbase loyalty and how Destiny does many of the things that make WhiteRa such an appealing player, how is that a problem? I was giving a potential reasoning behind why he would have a rabid fanclub by finding comparisons to another famous player with a large fanbase. What's the number of fans that love him for being an old school BW player opposed to the people who love him for his special tactics and funny personality?
white ra has been a well respected player since the early years of bw and is a beast in sc2 as well. there is no comparison with destiny. and, how can you call white ra "less accomplished?" jesus christ.
On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote: [quote] btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play.
Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half)
As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels.
I don't watch all day though.
There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
Well, I consider myself to be a fan of Destiny. Not a "fanboy", I guess, because I think I'm sane, but I certainly have been "defending him" here even though I need to go to bed (which I'm going to do after I finish writing this post). I would do the same thing if people spoke ill of Idra, Naniwa, Sheth, Tyler or any one of the players I particularly like. I guess I kind of take it personally because you seem to have a pretty negative opinion of his playstyle and especially of his viewer-base. Maybe I shouldn't bother, but that's me - I'm a carebear and I don't get you.
Also comparing Destiny and Whitera doesn't quite make sense to me. They're not in the same league at all and their personalities are almost opposites. The only thing I can think about is the "special tactics" which are basically a show.
There are grounds to criticize Destiny's fanboys though, I'll give you that - and I'm certain he would give you that too. Entertainers all have a few drooling idiots under their wings.
I'll check back here tomorrow but it'll probably be old news by then. Good night.
I just think Destiny is a boring and fairly gimmicky player. Making infestors isn't a gimmick but the way he plays is. Blindly throw down spine crawlers, turtling with infestors, barely ever attempting to scout except with burrowed infestors, etc. There seems to be no attempt to actually try and figure things out on a deep level, just "pimpest play" your way through the game. When someone like IdrA talks about his play you go "oh, so he made exactly 13 drones at this timing for that exact reason. While he might be getting a bit better at "pimpest playing" his way through a situation he will never be a Ret.
I compare Destiny to much less accomplished WhiteRa because both are known for breaking the norms of their race with "special tactics" and because of their personalities attracting a lot of followers even if they are polar opposites.
wait. did you seriously compare destiny to white-ra? one of the oldest and most respected bw players....
Yes? I did it as a throw away comment in regards to fanbase loyalty and how Destiny does many of the things that make WhiteRa such an appealing player, how is that a problem? I was giving a potential reasoning behind why he would have a rabid fanclub by finding comparisons to another famous player with a large fanbase.
not sure what his problem is, but my problem is this: "I compare Destiny to much less accomplished WhiteRa"
I think even in SC2, WhiteRa accomplished much more than Destiny. If you consider his accomplishements in SC1, then he's the more accomplished player by far. :-(
Oh, that was a typo. My original post said "He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa". Obviously WhiteRa is much more accomplished and respectable, the rest of that post was calling Destiny a mediocre player so contextually why would I say WhiteRa is worse?
Heavenly, you're breaking my dream here. A Destiny watcher who is not only sane but realistic? AND informs me that Destiny is trying to tone down the BM?
This is crushing my worldview. I want to be able to smugly feel superior to Destiny fans and irrationally hate the man. You're ruining it for me .
On August 23 2011 16:18 MisterFred wrote: Heavenly, you're breaking my dream here. A Destiny watcher who is not only sane but realistic? AND informs me that Destiny is trying to tone down the BM?
This is crushing my worldview. I want to be able to smugly feel superior to Destiny fans and irrationally hate the man. You're ruining it for me .
I was anti-Destiny (at least, anti-Destiny fanboy and neutral-Destiny) for like the last three pages of this thread, am I just completely horrible at getting my point across or something? lmao
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
whether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
I would argue that sports is an entertainment industry and so popularity is a very important gauge of his value to a sponsor.
People saying he chokes at tournaments that just isn't true. If He loses on ladder:, oh , he played bad, rages vs protoss, infestors didn't hatch not a real loss. He wins on ladder: Instant forums, forever remembered, recanted in every single thread.
How bout this when comparing destiny to other people, he lost vs Boyo 0-2. Boyo is a nobody, lets put that down to a 5, max.
The fact that he has been even mentioned in the same sentence as White-Ra shows a real disparity on a fanboy to real knowledge ratio.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
whether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
I would argue that sports is an entertainment industry and so popularity is a very important gauge of his value to a sponsor.
i would argue that non-racist terminology is a very important gauge of his value to a sponsor.
On August 23 2011 16:18 MisterFred wrote: Heavenly, you're breaking my dream here. A Destiny watcher who is not only sane but realistic? AND informs me that Destiny is trying to tone down the BM?
This is crushing my worldview. I want to be able to smugly feel superior to Destiny fans and irrationally hate the man. You're ruining it for me .
I was anti-Destiny (at least, anti-Destiny fanboy and neutral-Destiny) for like the last three pages of this thread, am I just completely horrible at getting my point across or something? lmao
You're still a Destiny-watcher. I was hoping to broaden my net of disdain. But as I came to this thread tonight to do some Destiny-fan baiting, I found you're doing better than I would have. Kudos for the entertainment.
IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3.
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
whether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
I would argue that sports is an entertainment industry and so popularity is a very important gauge of his value to a sponsor.
It never really benefited Root but Destiny is a bit more popular now than he was then I guess. Having a player that does little but be popular to a loyal fanbase isn't going to give you sponsors. Specifically in regards to EG he is not a valuable player. They don't need additional sponsors, EG is a powerhouse in esports, and an acquisition like Huk is much more appealing than someone like Destiny. While Puma is less popular he raises the overall level of EG a good deal and brings a ton in the much needed skill side.
I would like to say that I've never seen another player kill someone with 52 Infestors before... he literally just won a ZvZ on Korea with 52 infestors.
That was beautiful. Almost as good as Tyler's Arbiter rush.
He does have good results considering he is "only" a streamer and not on a team, let alone on a tip-top team.
He does more than just playing, though, for example he hosted the Combat-Deezer-BO5. In the interview afterwards, he got Chill on Sykpe. Destiny acts as a catalyst to advance the plot.
On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote: [quote] Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be.
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer.
Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know...
btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400?
I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs.
In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
whether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
I would argue that sports is an entertainment industry and so popularity is a very important gauge of his value to a sponsor.
It never really benefited Root but Destiny is a bit more popular now than he was then I guess. Having a player that does little but be popular to a loyal fanbase isn't going to give you sponsors. Specifically in regards to EG he is not a valuable player. They don't need additional sponsors, EG is a powerhouse in esports, and an acquisition like Huk is much more appealing than someone like Destiny. While Puma is less popular he raises the overall level of EG a good deal and brings a ton in the much needed skill side.
Well as people have already pointed out there are players on EG that are arguably less skilled than Destiny and also have less results. As far as your other points, they may not need more sponsors but they do need to show value to sponsors. Sponsors are basically looking for one thing -- more fans. Especially rabid, passionate fans that will buy or use products that a player recommends. For instance, I bet Destiny has indirectly sold hundreds of Das keyboards just from his using it.
I don't see the game awareness in Destiny that Sheth and similar players have, atleast he doesen't show it out well, and he constantly dies because he fails to scout and read what his opponent is doing. This is definitely something Destiny needs to work on, and he is working on it, yesterday he was going through alot of games thinking about how he could counter it better with his friend Kyle.
Also, Destiny isn't that bad with muta builds, he does well and he should do it more often. His infestor build is getting recognition, Sheth was spending all yesterday practising infestor-builds, and went mass infestor build similar to Destiny.
The reasoning behind Destinys thinking and infestor build was discussed with him and Day9 once. He wants to find a build that has counters to everything, a safe build that will put him in a good mid- to late game. He doesen't like coinflip builds, so he throws out an opener he thinks is most profitable to him, security and eco-wise and has a well worked out plan which he will always play out. When he looses he doesen't say "Hm, I should have gone mutas." he thinks "hm, my infestors should have been split up and i should have put down a few more spine crawlers." depending on what happened. He also considers infestors the only good zerg unit, and would consider accepting a slight infestor nerf, but would want some buffs for other zerg units then.
He is so bad. Hes not even close to top USA, which means Euro is far better than him, which means Korean is redonkulously better than him. When I see 7k ppl watching his stream I laugh at how many people will do that instead of watching any korean replay they can find. Hes total trash.
Destiny is fucking awesome to watch, he doesn't really belong on a team, at least not yet. Most of his key wins against Koreans have all been internet wins, he needs to establish himself as a serious threat in LAN games, especially against crappy players during mass group play.
I don't think he has 7k viewers because of his SC2 skill level... it's because of his personality. People like him as a SC2 entertainer like someone else said before. He's pretty funny to watch sometimes and it's always classic to see him play against Deezer.
On August 23 2011 18:30 Silentness wrote: I don't think he has 7k viewers because of his SC2 skill level... it's because of his personality. People like him as a SC2 entertainer like someone else said before. He's pretty funny to watch sometimes and it's always classic to see him play against Deezer.
I wonder what kind of people like to hear "Shut the fuck up FUUCK FUCCCK you FAGGGGOOOT" every 20 seconds. As stated earlier, I enjoy watching and studying his play, but I despise the whole "yeah I curse I am cool motherfucking bitch. You get offended ? Too bad bro' YOU have a problem, you are a dumbfuck nigger sucking dick all day long !".
Are Destiny fanboy all immature dumbass feeling like true men when cursing ? I really wonder what makes this kind of communication appealing to people.
Destiny is good. But hes good because of infestors. I won't deny destiny is actually sick good and is probably the best infestor user in the world, but when happens when infestors get nerfed? There is a very high chance, as infestors let people destroy players that are better than them. An example is when killer took a game off MC using infestors. d.killer himself stated that he hasn't played in weeks yet he destroyed MC, who practices all day and has top korean mechanics, in the game he won. To prove my point even more, the game after, d.killer didn't play heavy infestors and lost badly. When i watch destiny's stream, he actually falls behind alot sometimes due too poor scouting and such, but still wins in the end due to the efficiency of infestors.
On August 23 2011 18:45 koolaid1990 wrote: Destiny is good. But hes good because of infestors. I won't deny destiny is actually sick good and is probably the best infestor user in the world, but when happens when infestors get nerfed? There is a very high chance, as infestors let people destroy players that are better than them. An example is when killer took a game off MC using infestors. d.killer himself stated that he hasn't played in weeks yet he destroyed MC, who practices all day and has top korean mechanics, in the game he won. To prove my point even more, the game after, d.killer didn't play heavy infestors and lost badly. When i watch destiny's stream, he actually falls behind alot sometimes due too poor scouting and such, but still wins in the end due to the efficiency of infestors.
Off topic imo, MC just took the worst ever engagement he could have taken on Metalopolis. Not really representative of anything. Protoss and Terran are starting to adjust to it with Feedback / EMP.
On August 23 2011 18:45 koolaid1990 wrote: Destiny is good. But hes good because of infestors. I won't deny destiny is actually sick good and is probably the best infestor user in the world, but when happens when infestors get nerfed? There is a very high chance, as infestors let people destroy players that are better than them. An example is when killer took a game off MC using infestors. d.killer himself stated that he hasn't played in weeks yet he destroyed MC, who practices all day and has top korean mechanics, in the game he won. To prove my point even more, the game after, d.killer didn't play heavy infestors and lost badly. When i watch destiny's stream, he actually falls behind alot sometimes due too poor scouting and such, but still wins in the end due to the efficiency of infestors.
Off topic imo, MC just took the worst ever engagement he could have taken on Metalopolis. Not really representative of anything. Protoss and Terran are starting to adjust to it with Feedback / EMP.
the thing is, you can't really assume the zerg is going for an infestor build. MC already went robo before he sees infestors, meaning he got them collosus out for a push. He can't suddenly stop collosus and get templar tech or he will be behind. Its kind of a build order loss, if you guess they are going ling infestor, you can blindy go archon/zealot templar and have a higher chance.
On August 23 2011 18:30 Silentness wrote: I don't think he has 7k viewers because of his SC2 skill level... it's because of his personality. People like him as a SC2 entertainer like someone else said before. He's pretty funny to watch sometimes and it's always classic to see him play against Deezer.
I wonder what kind of people like to hear "Shut the fuck up FUUCK FUCCCK you FAGGGGOOOT" every 20 seconds. As stated earlier, I enjoy watching and studying his play, but I despise the whole "yeah I curse I am cool motherfucking bitch. You get offended ? Too bad bro' YOU have a problem, you are a dumbfuck nigger sucking dick all day long !".
Are Destiny fanboy all immature dumbass feeling like true men when cursing ? I really wonder what makes this kind of communication appealing to people.
So, you plan to tell us the last time you heard him do this or are you just trolling and looking for a ban?
Are Destiny fanboy all immature dumbass feeling like true men when cursing ? I really wonder what makes this kind of communication appealing to people.
On August 23 2011 18:45 koolaid1990 wrote: Destiny is good. But hes good because of infestors. I won't deny destiny is actually sick good and is probably the best infestor user in the world, but when happens when infestors get nerfed? There is a very high chance, as infestors let people destroy players that are better than them. An example is when killer took a game off MC using infestors. d.killer himself stated that he hasn't played in weeks yet he destroyed MC, who practices all day and has top korean mechanics, in the game he won. To prove my point even more, the game after, d.killer didn't play heavy infestors and lost badly. When i watch destiny's stream, he actually falls behind alot sometimes due too poor scouting and such, but still wins in the end due to the efficiency of infestors.
Ah, you mean like Colossi destroying players like Idra for more then a year now. Were Colossi nerfed?
On August 23 2011 18:30 Silentness wrote: I don't think he has 7k viewers because of his SC2 skill level... it's because of his personality. People like him as a SC2 entertainer like someone else said before. He's pretty funny to watch sometimes and it's always classic to see him play against Deezer.
I wonder what kind of people like to hear "Shut the fuck up FUUCK FUCCCK you FAGGGGOOOT" every 20 seconds. As stated earlier, I enjoy watching and studying his play, but I despise the whole "yeah I curse I am cool motherfucking bitch. You get offended ? Too bad bro' YOU have a problem, you are a dumbfuck nigger sucking dick all day long !".
Are Destiny fanboy all immature dumbass feeling like true men when cursing ? I really wonder what makes this kind of communication appealing to people.
lol idc about the cursing either way, but it does amuse me on the inside that somewhere out there, there's someone watching his stream that makes the exact reaction you just made, just goin crazy and shit acting like a word is some serious business... and that makes it worth it.
sounds like you're the immature dumbass one here, having an emotional outburst on the internet over someone you never met and probably barely pay attention to.
If he really believes it, I'd love to see him really do it.
If he's totally awesome and says Nigger all the time because its everyone else's problem and not the white kid's problem, then I hope he does it in real life, while walking around.
He often makes an argument that context is what matters and that's why 'rape' is a metaphor and doesn't matter. But what context is saying nigger meant non-offensively?
"Oh well, I didn't mean nigger in a bad way...I'm just like calling you one because like, you're horrible and...nigger are horrible?"
What's the possible metaphor here other than insulting the race? Or Saying someone is a nigger, and therefore bad?
You can only hide behind 'I didn't mean it offensively' if you didn't mean it offensively. But Destiny DOES mean things he says offensively, He's attempting to insult the person he's talking to by calling them names. So the entire basis of him saying this things to begin with is an attempt to bother someone with words. His pseudo-intellectual nonsense argument can't change that.
On August 23 2011 18:30 Silentness wrote: I don't think he has 7k viewers because of his SC2 skill level... it's because of his personality. People like him as a SC2 entertainer like someone else said before. He's pretty funny to watch sometimes and it's always classic to see him play against Deezer.
I wonder what kind of people like to hear "Shut the fuck up FUUCK FUCCCK you FAGGGGOOOT" every 20 seconds. As stated earlier, I enjoy watching and studying his play, but I despise the whole "yeah I curse I am cool motherfucking bitch. You get offended ? Too bad bro' YOU have a problem, you are a dumbfuck nigger sucking dick all day long !".
Are Destiny fanboy all immature dumbass feeling like true men when cursing ? I really wonder what makes this kind of communication appealing to people.
Pretty obvious you don't watch Destiny. I've watched him every day this week and he hasn't had a single conversation that went along those lines. I don't even think he said the word 'faggot' once.
His most common refrains are 'Herp derp', Brohan, Brofestor, and Broach
On August 23 2011 18:30 Silentness wrote: I don't think he has 7k viewers because of his SC2 skill level... it's because of his personality. People like him as a SC2 entertainer like someone else said before. He's pretty funny to watch sometimes and it's always classic to see him play against Deezer.
I wonder what kind of people like to hear "Shut the fuck up FUUCK FUCCCK you FAGGGGOOOT" every 20 seconds. As stated earlier, I enjoy watching and studying his play, but I despise the whole "yeah I curse I am cool motherfucking bitch. You get offended ? Too bad bro' YOU have a problem, you are a dumbfuck nigger sucking dick all day long !".
Are Destiny fanboy all immature dumbass feeling like true men when cursing ? I really wonder what makes this kind of communication appealing to people.
Pretty obvious you don't watch Destiny. I've watched him every day this week and he hasn't had a single conversation that went along those lines. I don't even think he said the word 'faggot' once.
His most common refrains are 'Herp derp', Brohan, Brofestor, and Broach
Yes, I watch him daily for a little bit more than 3 weeks actually. I does not provoke any emotionnal outburst like someone previously said to antagonize me, I am the first one to curse excessively when I am with my friends. On a rationnal level, I don"t really get the need to use nigger, and curse excessively, all the time, when you know that your stream is being watched by thousands of nerds.
In the end, I don't really care, I tend to mute the stream whenever it is excessively annoying, it is just that I am genuinely curious about what is entertaining about listening to someone curse excessively for hours on end, that is all, it makes no sense to me, and the only rational explanation I come with is that most of his audience must be lowlife borderline retarded and introverted immature nerds, enjoying to listen to someone playing and cursing in a cool way about their favorite game. I am sure it is a pretty short sighted explanation, and I am listening to others regarding the point of the average audience of Destiny.
Chill out, I am open to any discussion and am definity not a hater since I watch his stream almost daily and enjoy his playstyle.
One last thing, hanging around the ban sentence is pretty funny and silly, you should read again my post.
On August 23 2011 18:45 koolaid1990 wrote: Destiny is good. But hes good because of infestors. I won't deny destiny is actually sick good and is probably the best infestor user in the world, but when happens when infestors get nerfed? There is a very high chance, as infestors let people destroy players that are better than them. An example is when killer took a game off MC using infestors. d.killer himself stated that he hasn't played in weeks yet he destroyed MC, who practices all day and has top korean mechanics, in the game he won. To prove my point even more, the game after, d.killer didn't play heavy infestors and lost badly. When i watch destiny's stream, he actually falls behind alot sometimes due too poor scouting and such, but still wins in the end due to the efficiency of infestors.
Off topic imo, MC just took the worst ever engagement he could have taken on Metalopolis. Not really representative of anything. Protoss and Terran are starting to adjust to it with Feedback / EMP.
the thing is, you can't really assume the zerg is going for an infestor build. MC already went robo before he sees infestors, meaning he got them collosus out for a push. He can't suddenly stop collosus and get templar tech or he will be behind. Its kind of a build order loss, if you guess they are going ling infestor, you can blindy go archon/zealot templar and have a higher chance.
You know that protoss has great scouting techniques? Of course you can scout if he is going for an infestor play, you can scout it directly with hallucinated phoenix and you can scout his unit composition (no roaches, just lings means ... ?) also colossi are a hard counter to infestor, you don't have to insta-switch to templar, you can stay defensive until you have the critical numbers of colossi which just melt infestors and makes NP useless
On August 23 2011 18:45 koolaid1990 wrote: Destiny is good. But hes good because of infestors. I won't deny destiny is actually sick good and is probably the best infestor user in the world, but when happens when infestors get nerfed? There is a very high chance, as infestors let people destroy players that are better than them. An example is when killer took a game off MC using infestors. d.killer himself stated that he hasn't played in weeks yet he destroyed MC, who practices all day and has top korean mechanics, in the game he won. To prove my point even more, the game after, d.killer didn't play heavy infestors and lost badly. When i watch destiny's stream, he actually falls behind alot sometimes due too poor scouting and such, but still wins in the end due to the efficiency of infestors.
Off topic imo, MC just took the worst ever engagement he could have taken on Metalopolis. Not really representative of anything. Protoss and Terran are starting to adjust to it with Feedback / EMP.
the thing is, you can't really assume the zerg is going for an infestor build. MC already went robo before he sees infestors, meaning he got them collosus out for a push. He can't suddenly stop collosus and get templar tech or he will be behind. Its kind of a build order loss, if you guess they are going ling infestor, you can blindy go archon/zealot templar and have a higher chance.
You know that protoss has great scouting techniques? Of course you can scout if he is going for an infestor play, you can scout it directly with hallucinated phoenix and you can scout his unit composition (no roaches, just lings means ... ?) also colossi are a hard counter to infestor, you don't have to insta-switch to templar, you can stay defensive until you have the critical numbers of colossi which just melt infestors and makes NP useless
This is not even remotely close to correct. If the zerg engages correctly, then you will have to focus fire the infestors with your colossi, which lets lings and roaches tear the rest of your army a new one.
On August 23 2011 18:45 koolaid1990 wrote: Destiny is good. But hes good because of infestors. I won't deny destiny is actually sick good and is probably the best infestor user in the world, but when happens when infestors get nerfed? There is a very high chance, as infestors let people destroy players that are better than them. An example is when killer took a game off MC using infestors. d.killer himself stated that he hasn't played in weeks yet he destroyed MC, who practices all day and has top korean mechanics, in the game he won. To prove my point even more, the game after, d.killer didn't play heavy infestors and lost badly. When i watch destiny's stream, he actually falls behind alot sometimes due too poor scouting and such, but still wins in the end due to the efficiency of infestors.
Ah, you mean like Colossi destroying players like Idra for more then a year now. Were Colossi nerfed?
Honestly, this. Heavy-infestor (whether it's destiny-style or + baneling drops) play is really the only alternative to roach/hydra/corrupter, which gets DEMOLISHED by good FF and colossi usage.
On August 23 2011 18:30 Silentness wrote: I don't think he has 7k viewers because of his SC2 skill level... it's because of his personality. People like him as a SC2 entertainer like someone else said before. He's pretty funny to watch sometimes and it's always classic to see him play against Deezer.
I wonder what kind of people like to hear "Shut the fuck up FUUCK FUCCCK you FAGGGGOOOT" every 20 seconds. As stated earlier, I enjoy watching and studying his play, but I despise the whole "yeah I curse I am cool motherfucking bitch. You get offended ? Too bad bro' YOU have a problem, you are a dumbfuck nigger sucking dick all day long !".
Are Destiny fanboy all immature dumbass feeling like true men when cursing ? I really wonder what makes this kind of communication appealing to people.
Pretty obvious you don't watch Destiny. I've watched him every day this week and he hasn't had a single conversation that went along those lines. I don't even think he said the word 'faggot' once.
His most common refrains are 'Herp derp', Brohan, Brofestor, and Broach
Yes, I watch him daily for a little bit more than 3 weeks actually. I does not provoke any emotionnal outburst like someone previously said to antagonize me, I am the first one to curse excessively when I am with my friends. On a rationnal level, I don"t really get the need to use nigger, and curse excessively, all the time, when you know that your stream is being watched by thousands of nerds.
In the end, I don't really care, I tend to mute the stream whenever it is excessively annoying, it is just that I am genuinely curious about what is entertaining about listening to someone curse excessively for hours on end, that is all, it makes no sense to me, and the only rational explanation I come with is that most of his audience must be lowlife borderline retarded and introverted immature nerds, enjoying to listen to someone playing and cursing in a cool way about their favorite game. I am sure it is a pretty short sighted explanation, and I am listening to others regarding the point of the average audience of Destiny.
Chill out, I am open to any discussion and am definity not a hater since I watch his stream almost daily and enjoy his playstyle.
One last thing, hanging around the ban sentence is pretty funny and silly, you should read again my post.
You sir, are a liar!! All this wall of text does not change that. You said previously he swears all the time and a lot and gave us examples while this is not actually happening. And now you insult his viewers based on your own lies. What is your goal here? This post of yours says more about you then anyone else.
On August 23 2011 18:30 Silentness wrote: I don't think he has 7k viewers because of his SC2 skill level... it's because of his personality. People like him as a SC2 entertainer like someone else said before. He's pretty funny to watch sometimes and it's always classic to see him play against Deezer.
I wonder what kind of people like to hear "Shut the fuck up FUUCK FUCCCK you FAGGGGOOOT" every 20 seconds. As stated earlier, I enjoy watching and studying his play, but I despise the whole "yeah I curse I am cool motherfucking bitch. You get offended ? Too bad bro' YOU have a problem, you are a dumbfuck nigger sucking dick all day long !".
Are Destiny fanboy all immature dumbass feeling like true men when cursing ? I really wonder what makes this kind of communication appealing to people.
Pretty obvious you don't watch Destiny. I've watched him every day this week and he hasn't had a single conversation that went along those lines. I don't even think he said the word 'faggot' once.
His most common refrains are 'Herp derp', Brohan, Brofestor, and Broach
Yes, I watch him daily for a little bit more than 3 weeks actually. I does not provoke any emotionnal outburst like someone previously said to antagonize me, I am the first one to curse excessively when I am with my friends. On a rationnal level, I don"t really get the need to use nigger, and curse excessively, all the time, when you know that your stream is being watched by thousands of nerds.
In the end, I don't really care, I tend to mute the stream whenever it is excessively annoying, it is just that I am genuinely curious about what is entertaining about listening to someone curse excessively for hours on end, that is all, it makes no sense to me, and the only rational explanation I come with is that most of his audience must be lowlife borderline retarded and introverted immature nerds, enjoying to listen to someone playing and cursing in a cool way about their favorite game. I am sure it is a pretty short sighted explanation, and I am listening to others regarding the point of the average audience of Destiny.
Chill out, I am open to any discussion and am definity not a hater since I watch his stream almost daily and enjoy his playstyle.
One last thing, hanging around the ban sentence is pretty funny and silly, you should read again my post.
You sir, are a liar!! All this wall of text does not change that. You said previously he swears all the time and a lot and gave us examples while this is not actually happening. And now you insult his viewers based on your own lies. What is your goal here? This post of yours says more about you then anyone else.
I have to agree, there is no real excessive cursing on his stream. Pretty much just the amount you hear from most anybody hanging with their friends, but its never a focus point, just people like ArhK who only see what they want seem to think he just sits around calling people faggots and niggers and they just laugh at that. He really doesn't. Also calling all his viewers immature, low life retards is pretty funny considering what ArhK was complaining about. Really makes him look like a joke.
And again if you watched his stream often you'd see most of the time he just grinds games and only really bms when someone bms him first. 90% of the time he is entirely good manner. The appeal of watching him is he is a funny guy who is excitable and enthusiastic about the game. His stream is super high quality and his play is getting better and better everyday. And yes he doesn't pull too many punches on his stream but that is part of what makes him awesome. He gets happy, he gets frustrated, he gets loud, and he gets estactic when he pulls an awesome comeback, he pretty much puts it all on his stream and watching it with him being so open to the stream makes you feel more connected and personally invested.
I use to hate him a few months ago. I heard all these terrible things about him and believed them. Eventually I decided to watch and almost immediately I couldn't help but like the guy.
Now that I think about it, Destiny has a good chance if he wanted to, to try to get signed by FnaticMSI. Although atm, I don't think Destiny is interested in any team sponsorship.
But he is interested in having access to quality practice partners. When he lost to Grubby yesterday first thing he asked him if they would practice together
Why didnt he join complexity? Was it because he's not a teamplayer and he would rather go solo? Anyways he have to join a team/clan whatever if he wants to go on all the big tournaments. SK gaming should pick him up, they got economy to send him to tournaments and they are not really a team in sc2, they are just sponsoring if im not mistaken. Therefore SK is a perfect team for him, imo.
Destiny has a strong work ethic and impressive results against those who aren't familiar with his style. If he'd commit more time and effort to refining other strategies and transitions, I think he'd have much more success in tournaments, especially against those who have seen his play before.
Destiny is one of the most manner/manly players/people I've ever observed. People often can't handle watching someone being truthful and totally themselves. His mechanics, especially his macro abilities are pretty astounding. His apm is extremely tight and fluid. If he trained with a team (though I don't think he'd want to) he would be a top player eventually.
I've been watching pro Starcraft nonstop since 2001 and never had so much fun or as much respect for a player than him. Truth!
On August 23 2011 18:45 koolaid1990 wrote: Destiny is good. But hes good because of infestors. I won't deny destiny is actually sick good and is probably the best infestor user in the world, but when happens when infestors get nerfed? There is a very high chance, as infestors let people destroy players that are better than them. An example is when killer took a game off MC using infestors. d.killer himself stated that he hasn't played in weeks yet he destroyed MC, who practices all day and has top korean mechanics, in the game he won. To prove my point even more, the game after, d.killer didn't play heavy infestors and lost badly. When i watch destiny's stream, he actually falls behind alot sometimes due too poor scouting and such, but still wins in the end due to the efficiency of infestors.
Off topic imo, MC just took the worst ever engagement he could have taken on Metalopolis. Not really representative of anything. Protoss and Terran are starting to adjust to it with Feedback / EMP.
the thing is, you can't really assume the zerg is going for an infestor build. MC already went robo before he sees infestors, meaning he got them collosus out for a push. He can't suddenly stop collosus and get templar tech or he will be behind. Its kind of a build order loss, if you guess they are going ling infestor, you can blindy go archon/zealot templar and have a higher chance.
You know that protoss has great scouting techniques? Of course you can scout if he is going for an infestor play, you can scout it directly with hallucinated phoenix and you can scout his unit composition (no roaches, just lings means ... ?) also colossi are a hard counter to infestor, you don't have to insta-switch to templar, you can stay defensive until you have the critical numbers of colossi which just melt infestors and makes NP useless
This is not even remotely close to correct. If the zerg engages correctly, then you will have to focus fire the infestors with your colossi, which lets lings and roaches tear the rest of your army a new one.
and focus firing the infestors takes how long? 0.3 seconds? 0.4 ? and don't forget that most of the zerg army cannot really engage because of forcefields so your army does not "just die"
As typical the truth lies somewhere in the middle. He's probably not as good as most of his fans think he is and he's not as bad as the haters say he is. Many people love being extreme / looking at the world as black and white.
I never really watched his stream because all I ever heard on TL and other sites was, "Blah blah Destiny is so ill-mannered and so racist and blah blah". Then one day there was no other stream of interest up so I put it on and it turned out to be one of the better streams out there. His lessons are quality and his play is great. He's entertaining and IMO better than a lot of the current pro's we've grown to love and follow.
He'll put on a good show at MLG as long as he can hold off early aggression long enough to get out some Infestors.
Does Destiny really need to be on a team? Why does everyone want him to be on one? He's a good player, but I'm not sure if he's interested in pursuing the path of being on a SC2 team. It's his preference to not be on a team, I'm sure he was interested it at first for the community aspect (ROOT seemed like a very friendly, active team where they talked to each other frequently). When ROOT joined the powerhouse that is Complexity he ended up leaving due to a breach of contract. I'm guessing that when you join such a big team like that you have to have certain rules and things you must do for the team whereas ROOT seemed more like a casual SC2 team. I think he wants to do his own thing. He still is pretty active in the community without being on a team.
I can't see him fitting in with the EG team at all. They seem to practice quite often (with not as much streaming as Destiny) and enter lots of tournaments that require lots of time. Destiny's major source of income comes from streaming and doing random bullshit on his stream that isn't SC2 related. Granted, he does play lots of great SC2 games, but he does other stuff too.
If he did join a team, I would wonder how that would affect his streaming. Would there be less BM, less trolling, less herpity derpity bullshitting? Possibly, but that's the reason why we all love Destiny to begin with, isn't it?
edit: I know that he doesn't BM that much anymore, but he does occasionally do "fun" type stuff that you don't really see other professional players doing.
On August 23 2011 19:50 EnderSword wrote: If he's totally awesome and says Nigger all the time because its everyone else's problem and not the white kid's problem, then I hope he does it in real life, while walking around.
He doesn't say it "all the time" online. People assume he does just because he defended the use of the word on SOTG. But thinking something is acceptable doesn't mean you do it. I've watched a ton of Destiny and never heard him say it once except when talking about the word itself. Maybe he's used it in a different context before, but sure as hell not "all the time". I doubt most of the people complaining that he uses the word ITT have actually heard it from his mouth.
He often makes an argument that context is what matters and that's why 'rape' is a metaphor and doesn't matter. But what context is saying nigger meant non-offensively?
You just wrote it in the above quote and 4 times total in your post. Did you mean it offensively?
"Oh well, I didn't mean nigger in a bad way...I'm just like calling you one because like, you're horrible and...nigger are horrible?"
Who did Destiny call a nigger?
But Destiny DOES mean things he says offensively, He's attempting to insult the person he's talking to by calling them names.
For example? Where is your evidence of him trying to offend someone by calling them a nigger? Or are you just leaping to wild assumptions like everyone else?
On August 24 2011 06:22 puddy wrote: Does Destiny really need to be on a team? Why does everyone want him to be on one? He's a good player, but I'm not sure if he's interested in pursuing the path of being on a SC2 team. It's his preference to not be on a team, I'm sure he was interested it at first for the community aspect (ROOT seemed like a very friendly, active team where they talked to each other frequently). When ROOT joined the powerhouse that is Complexity he ended up leaving due to a breach of contract. I'm guessing that when you join such a big team like that you have to have certain rules and things you must do for the team whereas ROOT seemed more like a casual SC2 team. I think he wants to do his own thing. He still is pretty active in the community without being on a team.
I can't see him fitting in with the EG team at all. They seem to practice quite often (with not as much streaming as Destiny) and enter lots of tournaments that require lots of time. Destiny's major source of income comes from streaming and doing random bullshit on his stream that isn't SC2 related. Granted, he does play lots of great SC2 games, but he does other stuff too.
If he did join a team, I would wonder how that would affect his streaming. Would there be less BM, less trolling, less herpity derpity bullshitting? Possibly, but that's the reason why we all love Destiny to begin with, isn't it?
edit: I know that he doesn't BM that much anymore, but he does occasionally do "fun" type stuff that you don't really see other professional players doing.
I dont think i'm alone here but i think the vast majority of people (myself included) want to see him on a team so that he can potentially get better at playing against pros in big LANS such as MLG and seeing him rise in the sc community as a formidable force, rather than just beating/trolling people on the ladder, which is extremely entertaining regardless.
On August 24 2011 06:22 puddy wrote: Does Destiny really need to be on a team? Why does everyone want him to be on one? He's a good player, but I'm not sure if he's interested in pursuing the path of being on a SC2 team. It's his preference to not be on a team, I'm sure he was interested it at first for the community aspect (ROOT seemed like a very friendly, active team where they talked to each other frequently). When ROOT joined the powerhouse that is Complexity he ended up leaving due to a breach of contract. I'm guessing that when you join such a big team like that you have to have certain rules and things you must do for the team whereas ROOT seemed more like a casual SC2 team. I think he wants to do his own thing. He still is pretty active in the community without being on a team.
I can't see him fitting in with the EG team at all. They seem to practice quite often (with not as much streaming as Destiny) and enter lots of tournaments that require lots of time. Destiny's major source of income comes from streaming and doing random bullshit on his stream that isn't SC2 related. Granted, he does play lots of great SC2 games, but he does other stuff too.
If he did join a team, I would wonder how that would affect his streaming. Would there be less BM, less trolling, less herpity derpity bullshitting? Possibly, but that's the reason why we all love Destiny to begin with, isn't it?
edit: I know that he doesn't BM that much anymore, but he does occasionally do "fun" type stuff that you don't really see other professional players doing.
I dont think i'm alone here but i think the vast majority of people (myself included) want to see him on a team so that he can potentially get better at playing against pros in big LANS such as MLG and seeing him rise in the sc community as a formidable force, rather than just beating/trolling people on the ladder, which is extremely entertaining regardless.
Fair enough... Destiny on the Main Stage at MLG would be pretty epic.
I think that he stated before though that he doesn't think a teamhouse is necessary to get better, but I might be misquoting him (I don't really agree with this though, so I can see your reasoning for him being on a team). He's been playing on the KR ladder so he may be using that as part of his MLG/tournament training. I like the whole independent Destiny feel because it seems very do-it-yourself.
these wins VS koreans are not successes, not by a long shot. you cant assume that he is as good as bomber or ace just because he beat the in a TWO game series with builds that they have never seem before. also people have to stop giving him credit with things that he did not create (ling infestor play with fast +1 +1 ups was discussed by mr bitter and idra on the two weeks with the pros long before destiny used it and long before the infestor buff) its super annoying
On August 24 2011 12:57 GypsyBeast wrote: these wins VS koreans are not successes, not by a long shot. you cant assume that he is as good as bomber or ace just because he beat the in a TWO game series with builds that they have never seem before.
Umm..Yeah you can.
Also, Bomber countered Destinys build well with mass ghosts and GREAT emps, and still wasn't able to take Destiny out because Destiny outplayed him.
I'm sure you can blame the meta game, whatever, whatever. But a win is a win is a win.
Destiny still needs to proove himself to be in the top rank. I think he will one day. He's learning so many new things all the time,constantly tries new things. I was looking at his games a few months ago, and they were nowhere near this level.
Destinys 11 overppool is an old, stolen build he popularized because he thinks it has the same eco. The 11 infestorling build is an old, stolen build he made into his own. Most ideas in this world are stolen, refined and made into new ideas. You're not god, you can't say "let there be ideas" in a world of nothingness, you need to build your new ideas on something and building it on others ideas is a good way.
I think Destiny can make it on the big stage since hes capable of doing so. People should know he isnt in a team and doesnt have a partner to train with.
Whats the point of people ranting about his mass infestors style when it is just another build order/ strategy? Since hes good and he prefers it, he uses it. Its like telling a Terrran player that hes always playing T and forces him to play P. He just needs to widen his range of strategy that can be used so that he wouldnt be picked on during a competition
Personality-wise, i dont think it will be a factor on whether hes being signed or not. Its not like Destiny insults people in a competition, its perfectly fine to me and he is quite amusing while laddering on stream. IMO, hes the kind of guy who do what he thinks is right and will never give in for doing something against his wishes.
Dont really know about him, but after watching his streams for the past few days and reading all the posts, I think Destiny should be given a chance. He has the ability to do well.
1) Major LAN/Online Tournament Results 2) Work Ethic/Natural Talent/Potential for Improvement 3) Marketability/Personality 4) Established Fan Base
1)If he joins a team and takes part in more competition, then will we know if hes good. But i doubt he has any results to prove to people. 2)Will give him a high rating from his streaming and from the charity stream + his interesting strategy 3)Marketing-wise i think hes average while personality-wise, he isnt that good but will be fine once he mixes well and gets comfortable with his 'new' teammates. 4) An average of 6k views when i visits his steam (not really sure)
EG.Incontrol has noted that he believes, and he is not alone, that the Infestor is a 'broken' or 'imbalanced' unit that allows Destiny to beat someone who is "4-5 times better" than him (EG.HuK).
This is like saying Terran who uses ghost against protoss(incontrol) is OP because they can use emp/ nukes and cloak. Unfair and biased.
Last but not least.. IMO, I dont think this thread really requires much discussion since its only about a 'yes' or 'no'. If a teams want him and Destiny is willing to join then i wish him good luck. But i think that will be a tall order since hes a father now.
Destiny is a unique player among the community. He streams a lot, is entertaining, is pretty talented, isn't unreasonable, but most of all he seems like an enjoyable person. Right now usually he just plays games on ladder and show matches, that's fine, but he doesn't atm have a good set of partners for practice. Sure he could probably get some of his CoL friends to practice like CatZ and Minigun, but they have to practice their own stuff too. Take for example EG, if he got acquired by EG, he would have people like PuMa, HuK, IdrA, Demuslim to practice with for 3-4 hours alone. That would be the next big step in his career I think. He likes to have fun which is really important when joining a team, you can;t be really antisocial. his fanbase would also probably support the team more so team gets more reputation. I'm not sure what wouldn't be liked about picking up Destiny, he gets better and a little bit of money from team, team gets another player, and gains a LOT of fans.
Basically what Torte said was pretty spot on. EG has no reason to pick him up, and he's kind of unpredictable, BM, known as being unprofessional and he can't perform consistently/well (don't get me wrong, got nothing against him but nonetheless)
In addition, it's been shown that EG isn't really looking to pick up budding talents and help grow them. This is partially why some people give them a lot of shit, considering they took Puma and HuK, two players that both had pretty huge achievements under their belt.
I'm sure Destiny will join some team eventually, if he really wants to be sponsored and get to stuff like MLG etc (maybe even Korea!) easier, and if theres a team willing to take the "risk" of having him on the team.
Destiny is making money off his stream and is improving steadily... He is adapting new styles and is getting better overall. Why does Destiny need to be on a team at the moment?
There is very few reasons for him to be on a team at the moment and though he eventually will need to if he wants to keep improving like he is, it doesn't really matter right now.
I would be happy for Destiny to join a team, with one slight proviso. If that team wants the bm to stop or make him anything less than he is now personality wise they can go take a jump.
If so, which team, and why?
Root was the perfect team for him, I don't think there is another team for him. All the teams are going to want to limit how bm he gets and stuff like that which is a pity.
Destiny's overall skill.
Skill in Starcraft 2? He is pretty ok,, mid pro range. He plays an unusual style, so sometimes he will beat excellent players and other times he will lose to mediocre players.
Destiny's place in sc2.
There are enough good players and I like that destiny is pretty good, but what I really he could be a worse player and I would still like his stream. He is the most entertaining pro I think and it has very little to do with his play. Idra rage quits from time to time and may do a one line bm, Destiny? lol he goes all the way
Just watch that game, funny video. Destiny's value to SC2 is that he is not every other pro out there. He is bm, unmarketable to teams (to a certain extent), he has a unique play style as well which helps. Basically he is more entertaining than the other pros, he stands out.
To me Destiny is an entertainer first and foremost and SC2 player second. His style is unique and it looks like it will single handedly get Zerg nerfed in 1.4 as he is to only Zerg i have seen with top class caster control.
His game style is based is based off efficiency, and not the usual throw units at the opposition then remax
He is actually very intelligent and literate along with adult sense of humour which gets him the viewer count and its great fun when he is skyping
This might sound crazy but i think if he switched to Protoss full time i think he would do better in tourneys in the long run,
Should he join another team? i would say no at the moment
The guy makes more money off of being an entertainer than pretty much all of the pros do from just their salaries, so he can practice and have fun with absolutely 0 stress, if he were to join a team it would make his salary subject to his winnings, and that's not exactly a safe way to raise a child... I think what he does now is a perfect life choice.
Couldn't vote for a team because I couldn't see Destiny on any of those teams. EG doesn't need more fan base, and doesn't need more low-tier players. And he quit complexity, so there's really nothing left.
Until he starts being a pro and not just someone people like, I don't see him progressing any further.
On September 18 2011 18:39 Topdoller wrote: To me Destiny is an entertainer first and foremost and SC2 player second. His style is unique and it looks like it will single handedly get Zerg nerfed in 1.4 as he is to only Zerg i have seen with top class caster control.
His game style is based is based off efficiency, and not the usual throw units at the opposition then remax
He is actually very intelligent and literate along with adult sense of humour which gets him the viewer count and its great fun when he is skyping
This might sound crazy but i think if he switched to Protoss full time i think he would do better in tourneys in the long run,
Should he join another team? i would say no at the moment
your first statement alone is probably the truest thing i've seen on the subject. he is without a doubt an entertainer first.
if he wants to prove otherwise, i would like to see a big tournament win or at least a high finish in a tournament if he wants to be considered legit.
he made some huge improvements when he joined root and i think a team with some practice partners would be good for him, but he has to be willing to put his mind to the task of being a better starcraft player..something i havent seen from his stream since the complexity nonsense.
On September 19 2011 09:52 Stijx wrote: The guy makes more money off of being an entertainer than pretty much all of the pros do from just their salaries, so he can practice and have fun with absolutely 0 stress, if he were to join a team it would make his salary subject to his winnings, and that's not exactly a safe way to raise a child... I think what he does now is a perfect life choice.
There's the quote I was looking for.
Destiny is an entertainer - people tune in to his stream because he's the most interesting streamer: he gets excited, curses, and takes crazy gambits. It's fun to watch. These things, however, don't necessarily make him a great player, and his incendiary personality is both a blessing and a curse.
He's good at what he does: fun streaming. But is he a top competitive player? No.
I can't imagine Destiny playing for teams like EG, Mouz, or even FXO. If coL is too much of a "big corporation" (or whatever his reasoning behind the decision to not play for coL saying it was too big of a company or whatever, ect.), those teams are equally really big teams (mainly EG or Mouz, but also FXO to some extent).
I remember hearing Destiny say that he probably wouldn't go to Korea even if the chance arose (that might have been from an old interview, but I definitely remember him expressing those views). Because of that I don't see him playing for a Korean team; though, if he were to go to Korea I could see him getting picked up. His style is so unique and different that he could help out Korean Zs and also teach Ts and Ps how to best deal with his style. From my understanding, Koreans recognize and are somewhat in awe of Destiny's massive amounts of Infestors.
That leaves us with Liquid and Reign (now that SJ has dissolved). For whatever reason (probably because they've all spent time there at one point or another) Liquid seems like a team whose overall goal is to create a bridge between Korea and the rest of the world. For the same reason that Destiny doesn't want to join a Korean team and live in Korea, I doubt Destiny would really fit in on Liquid (though he is basically sponsored by Liquid since his stream is featured, I know whenever I'm on TL and I see him streaming I tune in at least for a little while).
So the only team that is left is Reign. I feel like if Destiny had wanted to join Reign, he could have (seeing as they already have his former teammates KiWiKaKi and SLush). But the thing is, I don't think Destiny wants to be on a team. He seems content just streaming and playing in 2v2 tournaments with Minigun (he played my friends Destiny/Minigun vs aGGroWeRRa/WookieWeRRa) and be teamless. Leave him alone, and support him by watching his stream.
if i consider high NA master 1/10, MVP/Nestea 10/10, and lets say ThorZaiN 8/10, i give Destiny a 4/10 - pretty much high GM, but not top-notch. The wins vs top koreans are kind of irrelevant imo, due to his unique style no1 knew at that time. NA server as well obv, and i dont think the koreans cared too much. In fact, he barely even wins maps in offline events (MLG - totally destroyed in losers round 2-4 2times). Even online he is in a slump - shoutcraft invitational 0-3 vs -TLO- who after that lost 0-3 to socke...
i do not even know why ppl care so much about destiny tbh oO
Destiny is riding the coat tails of the infestor unit, and shouldn't even come close to being considering for tournaments / teams. He's not very good at all.
I wouldn't call the GSPA a high tier tournament by any standards. I think when Alex talks about high tier he means something like DreamHack/MLG. There are few online tournaments that qualify as a 'high tier tournament'
On September 18 2011 18:39 Topdoller wrote: To me Destiny is an entertainer first and foremost and SC2 player second. His style is unique and it looks like it will single handedly get Zerg nerfed in 1.4 as he is to only Zerg i have seen with top class caster control.
His game style is based is based off efficiency, and not the usual throw units at the opposition then remax
He is actually very intelligent and literate along with adult sense of humour which gets him the viewer count and its great fun when he is skyping
This might sound crazy but i think if he switched to Protoss full time i think he would do better in tourneys in the long run,
Should he join another team? i would say no at the moment
The only Z with top caster control? more like no real pro would go for untested builds like ice fishing..
On September 19 2011 10:53 Zanzabarr wrote: Destiny is riding the coat tails of the infestor unit, and shouldn't even come close to being considering for tournaments / teams. He's not very good at all.
I bet Destiny is going to read your post and after looking at your accomplishments he'll probably just quit StarCraft all together.
He has not had good performances at LAN events and he isn't the best player; but he's still a really good player with a unique style and to say anything like that makes you look really ignorant. When you can play StarCraft at his level then you go and post that, okay?
its just my opinion but i feel being in a team doesn't suit destiny as he is very much his own man, he likes to do things his own way, and from a financial sense why would he need a team when he is one of the biggest draws of any western pro streamer. don't get me wrong id like to see him on a team as i feel a structured practice enviroment would improve his play but in the end it is his decision
Destiny is making money off his stream and is improving steadily... He is adapting new styles and is getting better overall. Why does Destiny need to be on a team at the moment?
nothing against destiny because he's not the one saying it but honestly this is what we've been hearing from his fans for six months at least now, that he is improving steadily... and no results ever come from these statements
Destiny is making money off his stream and is improving steadily... He is adapting new styles and is getting better overall. Why does Destiny need to be on a team at the moment?
nothing against destiny because he's not the one saying it but honestly this is what we've been hearing from his fans for six months at least now, that he is improving steadily... and no results ever come from these statements
Its hard not to get excited by Destiny's play, its unique and he definitely has the ability to take games off of top foreign players. The infestor nerf has knocked him back some, but he has been adapting to the changes. I see him as a middle of the pack pro. He can take games off anyone, but he also can lose to anyone on a fairly regular basis. He has had some decent showings at MLGs always getting knocked out by pros or by other top amateur players.
Yeah sure destiny is pretty good, taking wins of notable Koreans, even with bad lag and bad times on the koreans is no small feat, but thats not enough to qualify him to be AMAZING, I think he deserves to be on a team, he is pretty good, but he is just not the best person to have on your team with all the bm, and yes idra is also bm (<3) but he has a HUGE fanbase, dwarfing Destiny's and better tourney results. Incontrol's bad results stem from lack of practice and UP protoss, not so much is COMPLETE LACK OF SKILL,
Its hard not to get excited by Destiny's play, its unique and he definitely has the ability to take games off of top foreign players. The infestor nerf has knocked him back some, but he has been adapting to the changes. I see him as a middle of the pack pro. He can take games off anyone, but he also can lose to anyone on a fairly regular basis. He has had some decent showings at MLGs always getting knocked out by pros or by other top amateur players.
well, i used to be excited watching him play, then it turned kind of meh, then i stopped. but i think thats just me, the only players i watch that this phenomenon has not happened with are idra and white-ra
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