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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 09 2011 05:00 Johnranger-123 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 04:52 mr.reee wrote:On May 09 2011 04:43 IntoTheWow wrote:On May 09 2011 04:37 mr.reee wrote:On May 08 2011 07:00 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:59 shmee wrote:On May 08 2011 06:55 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:53 shmee wrote:
I completely understand banning idra for his incendiary behavior, but has Team Liquid taken any action to punish Cruncher for ghosting idra's stream, which was the thing that started this whole mess? Does teamliquid have any kind of statement in regards to that? There's nothing wrong with joining the ladder at the same time as someone else. What action could we possibly take against that? So if you were streaming, and you got matched up against idra, and he magically knew everything you were doing only to find out later that he was checking your stream to see everything you were doing, you wouldn't have any problem with that? No. I also find great hypocrisy reading through his warnings and bans from TL. So many of them are for bm and insulting posts, but most of them include bm and insults back at Idra. What do you mean? Reading through the image on page 1 (http://i.imgur.com/cULBN.jpg) with a history of TL warnings/bans to idra, many of them (the team liquid messages) are insulting, and bad mannered. For example, "All 3 of you need to grow up," or, "we would still like you to use a toilet before when to the bathroom," or, "use your freetime to do something other than stare at a screen." There is one message from TeamLiquid to idra calling him a douchebag. But how can you argue that he wasn't being a douchebag. The way I see it, TL mods arent meant to ban people in the most PC way possible, they are there to ban people, thats it. How they do it and how they put their point across is entirely up to the mod. Just look at the ban thread in the closed forums, they treat everyone the same, you only care cause its idra.
The point is NOT whether or not IdrA was being a douchebag (which he clearly was), it's that if you are a moderator, you should not be saying that while you're banning someone. Commentary on a post, if you're a mod, is unnecessary and uncalled for. You can ban someone by simply stating a reason and letting it be. Adding in personal bias just makes a moderator look bad.
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On May 09 2011 05:01 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 04:48 Elthreann wrote:On May 09 2011 04:41 EvilTeletubby wrote:On May 09 2011 04:28 smileyface22 wrote:On May 09 2011 04:22 EvilTeletubby wrote:On May 09 2011 04:17 Arkan wrote:
Frankly as one of the biggest sites for SC I think it time to completetly overhaul their forum rules Why do you think we're the biggest site for SC. Because you had the existing infrastructure and there's no other serious competitors? By "existing infrastructure", I can only assume you mean our existing userbase (otherwise, that's silly as there were tons of websites up before the beta even came out). Now, why do you think we've maintained a large userbase and reputation? Oh, and if you think we've never had serious competitors, then you probably haven't followed the Broodwar scene at all. There were many sites in the early days of BW (many even bigger than TL for a while) that don't exist anymore. Again, there are reasons for that. I would really like your post but there is one small thing that i don't like about it: It kind of gives me the feeling you are trying to say (i will be exaggerating here): We have the best mods that never make mistakes and that is how we kept our followers. Yes your mods are good and reasonable, but we all make mistakes, and i can't help feeling that you are trying to just say all of our followers have stayed BECAUSE of our mods. That again is not completely true. Actually, I was referencing our site rules, not the mod team.  I'll be the first one to admit that no one is perfect, much less any of our mods. However, we do our best to minimize bad moderation, and if an error occurs, we will own up to it. I've had no problem apologizing if I made a mistake before. Show nested quote +Team liquid is the largest site in western SCII because so many pros used in brood war, and casters reference it all the time. I, like many, came here because casters gave shout outs, i never googled or anything, so i think its more important that you have the long standing pros, instead of brilliant mods. Anyway this was just so completely off topic  Again, referring to our rules/moderation strategy, not the mods themselves - which did foster the environment that encouraged top players to post here, and which community do you think the casters came from? Keep in mind, TL has been at the forefront since before VODs were even accessible. Hell, we've been doing this since the days of dial-up and battle reports. TL has gotten much bigger recently because of the available media that modern technology offers, but our core has always been the forums. And like I will keep saying, there are reasons our forums were always known for having a higher quality of posting.
Ill give you that regarding the size of the community the quality of posting is unbelievable really, but kind off can't believe that there aren't better, but as i said, it's all to do with community size :D. A community of TL's size is bound to have too many trolls to ban normally
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On May 09 2011 05:05 S.O.L.I.D. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 05:00 Johnranger-123 wrote:On May 09 2011 04:52 mr.reee wrote:On May 09 2011 04:43 IntoTheWow wrote:On May 09 2011 04:37 mr.reee wrote:On May 08 2011 07:00 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:59 shmee wrote:On May 08 2011 06:55 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:53 shmee wrote:
I completely understand banning idra for his incendiary behavior, but has Team Liquid taken any action to punish Cruncher for ghosting idra's stream, which was the thing that started this whole mess? Does teamliquid have any kind of statement in regards to that? There's nothing wrong with joining the ladder at the same time as someone else. What action could we possibly take against that? So if you were streaming, and you got matched up against idra, and he magically knew everything you were doing only to find out later that he was checking your stream to see everything you were doing, you wouldn't have any problem with that? No. I also find great hypocrisy reading through his warnings and bans from TL. So many of them are for bm and insulting posts, but most of them include bm and insults back at Idra. What do you mean? Reading through the image on page 1 (http://i.imgur.com/cULBN.jpg) with a history of TL warnings/bans to idra, many of them (the team liquid messages) are insulting, and bad mannered. For example, "All 3 of you need to grow up," or, "we would still like you to use a toilet before when to the bathroom," or, "use your freetime to do something other than stare at a screen." There is one message from TeamLiquid to idra calling him a douchebag. But how can you argue that he wasn't being a douchebag. The way I see it, TL mods arent meant to ban people in the most PC way possible, they are there to ban people, thats it. How they do it and how they put their point across is entirely up to the mod. Just look at the ban thread in the closed forums, they treat everyone the same, you only care cause its idra. The point is NOT whether or not IdrA was being a douchebag (which he clearly was), it's that if you are a moderator, you should not be saying that while you're banning someone. Commentary on a post, if you're a mod, is unnecessary and uncalled for. You can ban someone by simply stating a reason and letting it be. Adding in personal bias just makes a moderator look bad.
Ok, so can we all acknowledge the fact that he may have made a mistake and move on now?
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Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them.
What would someone have to do to get their stream banned? Even if IdrA can't BM the community with his posts, he can still just talk about the situation on his stream, which probably reaches far more people than most of his posts do. How is a 90-day ban at all productive if everyone can still come to TL, click on IdrA's stream, and listen as he talks about whatever he wants to?
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On May 09 2011 05:05 S.O.L.I.D. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 05:00 Johnranger-123 wrote:On May 09 2011 04:52 mr.reee wrote:On May 09 2011 04:43 IntoTheWow wrote:On May 09 2011 04:37 mr.reee wrote:On May 08 2011 07:00 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:59 shmee wrote:On May 08 2011 06:55 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:53 shmee wrote:
I completely understand banning idra for his incendiary behavior, but has Team Liquid taken any action to punish Cruncher for ghosting idra's stream, which was the thing that started this whole mess? Does teamliquid have any kind of statement in regards to that? There's nothing wrong with joining the ladder at the same time as someone else. What action could we possibly take against that? So if you were streaming, and you got matched up against idra, and he magically knew everything you were doing only to find out later that he was checking your stream to see everything you were doing, you wouldn't have any problem with that? No. I also find great hypocrisy reading through his warnings and bans from TL. So many of them are for bm and insulting posts, but most of them include bm and insults back at Idra. What do you mean? Reading through the image on page 1 (http://i.imgur.com/cULBN.jpg) with a history of TL warnings/bans to idra, many of them (the team liquid messages) are insulting, and bad mannered. For example, "All 3 of you need to grow up," or, "we would still like you to use a toilet before when to the bathroom," or, "use your freetime to do something other than stare at a screen." There is one message from TeamLiquid to idra calling him a douchebag. But how can you argue that he wasn't being a douchebag. The way I see it, TL mods arent meant to ban people in the most PC way possible, they are there to ban people, thats it. How they do it and how they put their point across is entirely up to the mod. Just look at the ban thread in the closed forums, they treat everyone the same, you only care cause its idra. The point is NOT whether or not IdrA was being a douchebag (which he clearly was), it's that if you are a moderator, you should not be saying that while you're banning someone. Commentary on a post, if you're a mod, is unnecessary and uncalled for. You can ban someone by simply stating a reason and letting it be. Adding in personal bias just makes a moderator look bad.
After a quick check at the ban list I see that the reason "I have my reasons" is listed quite frequently.. the truth of the matter is that as this site is TLs, they have the right to moderate however they please. They can be biased or pursue personal issues if they so choose. That said I tend to view the forum as a "social contract" of sorts. It's our responsibility to contribute to the forum/other players to help them grow, and it is the moderators responsibility to keep the environment level and open for us to contribute and learn ourselves. We're supposed to be working together, and neither side appears to be making that easy.
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On May 09 2011 05:07 nemo14 wrote:Show nested quote +Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them. What would someone have to do to get their stream banned? Even if IdrA can't BM the community with his posts, he can still just talk about the situation on his stream, which probably reaches far more people than most of his posts do. How is a 90-day ban at all productive if everyone can still come to TL, click on IdrA's stream, and listen as he talks about whatever he wants to?
He broke forum rules so he is banned from the forums. Normally users get banned from posting their streams but I guess TL decided to make an exception in this case.
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i am a waste of life. oh crap i just insulted myself ill probably get banned soon.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Russian Federation5 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:09 TopOgi wrote:
i am a waste of life. oh crap i just insulted myself ill probably get banned soon.
LOL
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On May 09 2011 05:07 nemo14 wrote:Show nested quote +Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them. What would someone have to do to get their stream banned? Even if IdrA can't BM the community with his posts, he can still just talk about the situation on his stream, which probably reaches far more people than most of his posts do. How is a 90-day ban at all productive if everyone can still come to TL, click on IdrA's stream, and listen as he talks about whatever he wants to?
I read the forums. I don't watch Idra's stream. There is a low random chance I stumble across one of Idra's one liners without using capital letters while browsing the forum. There is no chance I stumble across his opinion on his stream, unless people bring it away from it to the forum. Nobody said he wasn't free to state his opinion or whatever he wants to do, he just isn't allowed to post on the forum (which is nice for me).
On May 09 2011 05:09 TopOgi wrote:
i am a waste of life. oh crap i just insulted myself ill probably get banned soon.
You will be, for martyring.
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Baltimore, USA22261 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:58 smileyface22 wrote:
While that's to be commended, I happen to disagree with your opinion that TL's success is derived from your forum rules. Effort and philosophy are two different things. However I think it's pretty clear TL is unprepared to evolve as esports evolves and I hope that's the right decision.
But that's the thing - our success is derived from the people we've attracted (casters, players, talented staff), which is derived by the quality forums we've always presented. Also, I think it's incredibly naive if you don't think TL is unprepared to evolve, especially if your reason is because of strict forum rules?
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Hey kids since many of you don't like how teamliquid is being run lets go over to starcraftarena and talk there!
Oh wait...That site has long since died since the creators and mods stopped caring about the site.
I am an Idra fan. I like the fact that he speaks his mind. I can't decide if he is a total dick or a marketing genius, probably somewhere in the middle. Either way sending his minions to spam Chill is a bit much. From my perspective is it funny? Of course. Everyone loves the drama that is created. If I were in Chill and Nazgul's position I would've done the same thing though.
Teamliquid may be strict, but it is the best sc2 forum out there and everyone knows it. The mods are not nazis and they are not power hungry nerds. They put countless hours into the site and they deserve respect. It's Idras decision to dislike them, but promoting harassment is a bit far (not to mention canceling his stream was dumb). Either way there is a 95 page thread talking about it and as soon as Idra's steam goes back up he is going to have 10k+ viewers. Enjoy your ad revenue Idra, I know I will be watching.
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On May 09 2011 05:09 TopOgi wrote:
i am a waste of life. oh crap i just insulted myself ill probably get banned soon.
If you read the commandments you'll know which part of your statement will get you banned.
Dont use the "ill probably get banned" to re-enforce your statement...
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On May 09 2011 05:00 Kcow wrote:
"he's a waste of life" is such a throw away comment, I can't believe it merited such a response. There are plenty of worse derogatory statements he could have gone with given that he was probably fired up. I feel like everyone should just take it down a notch, after all it is just a forum ban that he got, it's not interfering with his stream or pretty much anything else.
Completely agree, cant believe people are disecting the words and trying to amplify its meaning, its just banter equivalent to him saying "you suck."
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Personally i think cruncher should fo been punished as well as he is intentionally aiming after idra like a 14 year old kid i think he should be punished for actively trying to make idra rage knowing full well how he reacts i dont think idra would of said anything if cruncher wasnt after him about everything to me it looks like idra is the kid that works hard and has some outbursts and cruncher being the kid that doesnt get punished for doing bad things and gets the other kid in trouble all the time but overall i agree with the ban idra has received since it did go overboard i don't always agree with the moderation on this site but it seems to work
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On May 09 2011 05:13 Arkan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 05:00 Kcow wrote:
"he's a waste of life" is such a throw away comment, I can't believe it merited such a response. There are plenty of worse derogatory statements he could have gone with given that he was probably fired up. I feel like everyone should just take it down a notch, after all it is just a forum ban that he got, it's not interfering with his stream or pretty much anything else. Completely agree, cant believe people are disecting the words and trying to amplify its meaning, its just banter equivalent to him saying "you suck."
You suck without proper reasoning behind it is still an insult and thus against the rules of this forum. He can say that on his stream, on other sites or wherever, just not in this forum.
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On May 09 2011 05:11 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 05:07 nemo14 wrote:Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them. What would someone have to do to get their stream banned? Even if IdrA can't BM the community with his posts, he can still just talk about the situation on his stream, which probably reaches far more people than most of his posts do. How is a 90-day ban at all productive if everyone can still come to TL, click on IdrA's stream, and listen as he talks about whatever he wants to? I read the forums. I don't watch Idra's stream. There is a low random chance I stumble across one of Idra's one liners without using capital letters while browsing the forum. There is no chance I stumble across his opinion on his stream, unless people bring it away from it to the forum. Nobody said he wasn't free to state his opinion or whatever he wants to do, he just isn't allowed to post on the forum (which is nice for me). Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 05:09 TopOgi wrote:
i am a waste of life. oh crap i just insulted myself ill probably get banned soon. You will be, for martyring.
Unless people bring it away into the forum? The guy averages 10,000 viewers or something. All it takes is one of them to post an inflammatory comment he might make and we could have even more drama and flaming.
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huge difference between stream sniping and stream watching... until its difinitively proven that cruncher was actually watching/listening to stream on second monitor theres no reason to assume so. hes a solid player with increidble game sense, plus anyone who's watched idra recently knows about his roach/ling 2base push which is so tough to stop as P, and not preparing for the possibility of it woulda been pretty critical
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On May 09 2011 05:14 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 05:13 Zerkaszhan wrote:
Personally i think cruncher should fo been punished as well as he is intentionally aiming after idra like a 14 year old kid i think he should be punished for actively trying to make idra rage knowing full well how he reacts i dont think idra would of said anything if cruncher wasnt after him about everything to me it looks like idra is the kid that works hard and has some outbursts and cruncher being the kid that doesnt get punished for doing bad things and gets the other kid in trouble all the time but overall i agree with the ban idra has received since it did go overboard i don't always agree with the moderation on this site but it seems to work Stream sniping is nothing new, and nothing bad.
No, but but stream sniping so you can cheat your opponent for the sole purpose of riling him up and causing trouble is immature and a needless generator of grief. I might have been able to accept that Cruncher just wanted to play IdrA if he had used IdrA's stream to get into the game, then turned it off. Instead Cruncher left the stream on and used it against his opponent. That's low, unethical even. Sure it's just the ladder but I personally think Cruncher's attitude is deplorable. IdrA's too, for that matter, for making such a deal out of this.
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That banlog is downright impressive. I really don't like Chill tbh, but Idra's complete lack of professionalism is an embarrassment to starcraft 2 progaming. The western scene needs to understand: You are not a bunch of teenagers playing games anymore, this is your job and you need to behave like adults.
If sponsorships from big entities like MLG and IGN are to continue, the scene needs to be mature and civil. As of now, it's barely a step up from wow-nerds. Bashing somebody's play is fine, but insulting them personally over work/a game is unacceptable.
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EPT
