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Hello, all! It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully. Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil. Thanks, Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. | ||
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sertman
United States540 Posts
On May 08 2011 22:53 konadora wrote: thought he would have learnt by now... guess not! The problem is not that he doesn't learn. He has. He just makes the conscious decision to not change his behavior, hence the ban. | ||
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Sneakyz
Sweden2361 Posts
On May 08 2011 22:54 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: bolded the important part. im pretty sure no matter what idra wouldve said to chill himself it wouldnt have changed anything. but he has countless mindless fanboys. he knows it, hes not stupid. telling them to pm chill no matter in what way will 100% result in something bad. this is not acceptable in any way esp nowadays where evry random guy can get some efame with a stream or whatever. for the good of the forum in the future a action like this has to be heavily punished . That doesn't necessarily mean it's your ban though. | ||
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Sein
United States1811 Posts
On May 08 2011 22:39 Skamtet wrote: 2 times, sick. Still not repeatedly as you said. Have you seen CrunChers BM on ladder? .. no? -sigh- Do you know what the definition is "repeatedly" is? .. no? Do you know that we are not talking about Cruncher's attempt to wind up idrA on the ladder? And yes, I have watched both of those guys streams and I know what Cruncher's been doing. I don't, in any way, support what Cruncher's been doing since TSL as I think it is childish. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On May 08 2011 22:56 Clearout wrote: He also called Cruncher a walkover who will probably just 4 gate him and lose 2-0 in an pre game interview. Add that with the between game statements, and you still think a  is bad comparatively?Then don't bring up the pre-game banter if the walkover statement is your main beef. | ||
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ekim43
13 Posts
Thank you TL for putting your foot down. | ||
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xguyx
United States124 Posts
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Garaman
United States556 Posts
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
not that it isn't deserved just that i think its not REEEALLLY a punishment | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4315 Posts
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tofucake
Hyrule18969 Posts
On May 08 2011 18:56 Nilrem wrote: + Show Spoiler + You mean the merit of getting banned something like 40 times already? No. As I and many others have already said, this ban is the result of a discussion among IdrA and various TL staff members. This was not one mod unilaterally deciding to ban IdrA for 90 days.I would like IdrA a lot more if it was not for his attitude. I watched the "State of the Game" vod and when he got in it with Day[9], I just ended up cringing. I do think though that the personality of IdrA should not be the deciding factor of his punishment. I see many post talking about how he deserved this and deserved worst. Well, I think that might be going a bit too far. The punishment ought to be based on the merit of what has been done, and not the personality of the person. And I do realize that factoring out someones personality can be quite difficult at times. The baggage is there, that cannot be questioned. But just hope people do not try to mix in their disregard for his personality along side what he had done. On May 08 2011 19:06 Tornadium wrote: + Show Spoiler + Huge assumption?? Right... I don't think you are seeing the big picture here.... What is the big picture? I honestly don't feel one exists, The TL mods exhibited their own version of what they think he means. If you just take the base sentance itself it is in no way promoting harrassment or spamming. Anyone who doesn't have a pre disposition towards either party will read that as "Got banned, If it upsets you go say something to the Mods. Maybe they'll change their mines". Understanding it is Idra and all, but if you're not going to take action against Cruncher because there is no conclusive evidence of him cheating then why tag idra with a 90 ban because you outright lie that he stated 1. He can't stream because he's banned from TL. He didn't, he said he won't be streaming because he's banned from TL. Two very different statements. He's doing it by choice not because you removed his stream. He openly says it right there. 2. Go harrass Chill. All he said was: "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you". That is neither calling for harrassment or spam. Again, idra's intent is being presumed. Personally i dont have any real feelings towards or against idra. Just hate seeing biased moderation on forums. On May 08 2011 19:25 Tornadium wrote:+ Show Spoiler + As I and many others have already said, this ban is the result of a discussion among IdrA and various TL staff members.On May 08 2011 19:22 JayDee_ wrote: Asking thousands of people to spam a TL mod with PMs is justification for perm-ban. I think idras stream should be suspended from listing as well. He will never learn if there are not real repercussions for his child like behavior. He didn't tell anyone to spam Chill. Nor did he ask them. He pointed towards the Mod who banned him from the site. Stating if they have a problem with it, ask them to lift the ban. On May 08 2011 19:09 entropius wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On May 08 2011 18:52 SC Trickster wrote: Sorry if this has been asked, but does anyone know where idra made the post that got him banned for so long? Also, hot damn at this topic reaching 57 pages lol. The original ban happened because he suspected Cruncher of stream-hacking him, on the basis of at least circumstantial evidence*, and flamed him on his own (Idra's) fanclub thread. The TL mods apparently do not like this and banned him for two days. The post that got him banned for three months was made on his Twitter. He suggested that anyone reading the twitter with questions about his ban should contact Chill. TL mod staff, always Lawful Neutral, interpreted this as him suggesting to his fans that they should spam Chill, and banned him for three months. *Cruncher was definitely watching Idra's stream, although he claims to have hidden and muted the window; Idra perhaps knew the former but not the latter at the time. He also supposedly responded perfectly to an all-in despite not scouting it whatsoever. On May 08 2011 19:10 habeck wrote:+ Show Spoiler + WHy Chill banned Idra FOr two days? I couldn't find the info On May 08 2011 19:48 Cent wrote:+ Show Spoiler + His 2 day was because of this.Idra deserves to be banned for many reasons, but insulting Cruncher outside the jurisdiction of TeamLiquid grounds is not one of them. The streams are not HOSTED by TL, merely linked to them. What Idra says and how he says it should never be moderated by TL. Anyway, Chill's bombardment is not so much Idra's fault as it is his fans. Idra merely redirected their inquiries to the person responsible. That's not malicious intent; Chill is more informed about the situation and reasoning than any other person, including Idra. On May 08 2011 19:36 KwarK wrote: The stream is not hosted on tl, it is on justin.tv or something. teamliquid is in no way affiliated with the stream and has no control over it. But somehow the words Idra speaks on this 'unaffiliated' stream domain is grounds for punishment on an unconnected forum? Interesting... On May 08 2011 19:28 Tornadium wrote:+ Show Spoiler + His stream is and was hosted on Justin.TV. TL did not have any hand in his stream other that listing it in the sidebar and embedding it into the site. The ads are all from JTV. It is not and never was sponsored by TL.On May 08 2011 19:24 KwarK wrote: How is Chill the responsible party for Idra deciding not to stream when the stream is in no way related to teamliquid? He's a grown man, he's responsible for his own decisions. Unless i'm wrong the stream was Hosted and sponsored by TL right? They had ads on his stream i believe. Refusing to stream is basically a protest to his ban. Nothing more. Still doesn't change the fact that people are lying. He didn't say he couldn't stream. True he is a grown man, however he's responsible for someone else's interpretation or version of Idra's decisions. He didn't do anything that you're claiming he did. For a purely neutral standpoint the ban is based off of what a Mod thinks he meant. On May 08 2011 19:48 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On May 08 2011 19:39 Tornadium wrote: Fair enough, I was under the impression that TL sponsored the stream. Regardless, i don't understand why it's unacceptable for a large number of people to protest a ban if they feel that the community they are participating in made an extremely bad decision. Chill is a moderator right? Can't he handle a little critism of his moderation? We have a website feedback forum here. Idra has been here for years, he knows this. Idra also knows he has an army of barely literate 12 year olds at his command (I've read a lot of the PMs Chill got, you'd be amazed) who don't fully understand how cause and effect works. This forum should be a pleasant place for starcraft fans to interact. Chill was doing his duty by handing Idra a slap on the wrist (again the 2 day was incredibly lenient). It was not anything personal and if Idra had a problem with it then it was a problem with the rules of the site, not with the staff member who volunteers their time to enforce them. Idra did not say "I think the rules of teamliquid are too strict and you guys should debate them in the website feedback forum". He said, and I paraphrase, "I'm going to fuck over you idiots and it is in some way this guys fault, ps: don't look into whether I actually broke the rules, just send him any venom you have lying around". I like this site as it is. Many people do not and they are welcome to suggest improvements or to go to one of our rivals. That is their choice. However this is still our site and we do not deserve abuse for upholding the standards that make this site the place I love. +1 On May 08 2011 20:36 aderum wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On May 08 2011 20:24 PlaGuE_R wrote: I second that. Also, Someone was saying that idra didnt even retaliate and that chill bit off more then he could chew. that's unbelievably idiotic thing to say. IdrA is a user on this forum, he has to respect the rules, just like anyone else, and if he 'retaliates' he'll be perm banned from the biggest sc2 forum in the world as well as lose a ton of credibility. If he actually tries and mount up some kind of "attack" on TL, I'm 100% sure that EG will drop him. That's not the kind of behaviour a professional team wants from their player. Imagine, some american football was refused an interview on ESPN and he sent his fans to egg/vandalize the ESPN studios, he would be kicked out of the league. So you are comparing pm-ing an mod to actual vandalizing? brilliant. I can show you a bunch of (swedish aleast) pro-sports players that has refused interviews with different channels b/c of a grudge. And they did surely not get dropped from their team b/c of that. Rather they got more attention and the sponsors made more money. So as long that he is not doing anything illegal, i find no reason to why he would be dropped. On May 08 2011 20:48 Risen wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On May 08 2011 20:27 KwarK wrote: If I get a speeding ticket and I think it's totally unfair, not because I wasn't driving too fast but because I think I should be allowed to break the speed limit, then I don't train hundreds of monkeys to go to the house of the police officer who enforced the law and hurl shit. Instead I use the established structures within society to try and reform the law or move to another country with laws I prefer. What an irrelevant analogy. Going with the speeding ticket. Idra posted "Just got a ticket for yelling at another driver, everyone call the police and request officer Chill if this upsets you" I completely agree with the original two day ban for rising to Cruncher's snipe with an immature post, but don't come in here with a horrible analogy and try to act like he's being some monster when it isn't even close to that. Maybe you just didn't realize what you were writing before you hit post. If you read the PMs Chill got, you would understand how they are vandalizing (and Kwark's monkey poo analogy is actually quite accurate). On May 08 2011 22:58 Novalisk wrote:+ Show Spoiler + It's not his main beef. His main beef is repeatedly, and he's giving you more examples which further his argument.On May 08 2011 22:56 Clearout wrote: He also called Cruncher a walkover who will probably just 4 gate him and lose 2-0 in an pre game interview. Add that with the between game statements, and you still think a is bad comparatively?Then don't bring up the pre-game banter if the walkover statement is your main beef. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
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Kulijo
Germany49 Posts
Doing it like this is basically like saying: "We don't act against his fans, he does." But you ban Idra for advising his fans to stop caring about Cruncher and the incident. But some fans do care about (in their eyes) cheating. So you ban Idra even longer for saying something on another platform (twitter) but don't care if he is bm und insulting on his other platform (stream). I hope I expressed what I mean well enough in English which is: I really don't understand what is happening here. | ||
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HaRxTears
141 Posts
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Klogbert
United States139 Posts
1. Uninformed 2. Lacking in education 3. Blinded by your love for IdrA I love IdrA's play but his personality needs to change, ASAP. | ||
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Az0r_au
Australia385 Posts
On May 08 2011 23:08 See.Blue wrote: I love just how easy it is to tell exactly which types of people identify with Idra..... lol It's just as easy to see types that don't | ||
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Sneakyz
Sweden2361 Posts
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Iyerbeth
England2410 Posts
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
On May 08 2011 23:09 Kulijo wrote: But you ban Idra for advising his fans to stop caring about Cruncher and the incident. But some fans do care about (in their eyes) cheating. So you ban Idra even longer for saying something on another platform (twitter) but don't care And now we get to the heart of the problem in this thread, which is that besides Idra's role in directly inciting his army of salty-teared fanboys to spam a mod, is that most of these fanboys are so out of touch with reality they just post without even the remotest thought of any larger picture. The sense of victimhood of these kids is incredible, it really makes all the forum zerg QQ from his fans seem much more emblematic of something deeper than video game balance. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On May 08 2011 06:56 Sc2ttyl wrote: Its pathetic that you all are saying "he deserves it" "i wish he would grow up"... IdrA acts the way he does because of people like you all (americans) who think they are good at this game. You all are really not, just look at koreans, they actually know what they are doing. After adoring IdrA's stream for a long time now, i really do realize what he means... US "pros" are no where near the level of koreans. IdrA actually laughed during one of his streams playing these "top players" on ladder because of their terrible decision making. The only reason they are here at all (US Pros) is becuase of the uber popularity of sc2. Sc2 is popular for the exact reason that its "easy" to get a high level with MUCH less effort than scBW. None of these players could even touch some renowned veteran in SCBW like Flash or Jaedong. IdrA is the only player from the US who is allowd to say that he is good because he really knows what hes doing. I love all these people on there forums who think they know better and then go back and ladder on their accounts and think they are good. Go try BW and then see how good you are... oh wait, you didnt because it wasnt easy to macro/mico IdrA I understand you bro, dont think everyone is stupid because I realize what you say and back you up 100%. Just laugh at all these people while you get rich playing this game and win out in the long run. I dont see anybody from the U.S in the gsl... User was temp banned for this post. This is the fan that jumps off a roof when IdrA retires. Not only is there flawed reasoning in much (if not everything) you said, but you're comparing two different games. You're comparing apples and oranges; both fruits, but not the same things. | ||
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Sein
United States1811 Posts
On May 08 2011 23:05 Dhalphir wrote: i have a feeling that idra doesn't particularly care that he's banned not that it isn't deserved just that i think its not REEEALLLY a punishment He does care at least a little bit, to an extent he would stop streaming and twit about it. | ||
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