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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 08 2011 08:42 TheRhox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:38 FallDownMarigold wrote:
That's absurd. Like it or now, I'm expressing my opinion without cussing or belittling anyone...just..wow. There goes the most skilled and entertaining streamer, le sigh Don't blame TL, all this means is that he just can't post on the forums for 90 days (as if he ever had any useful posts to begin with).. If he's not going to stream anymore, that's on his own volition.
Who said I'm blaming TL? I'm stating the objective fact that it's absurd that somebody got banned from an online forum board for 90 days for something that did not occur on the board in question.
Sounds to me like a bunch of side-personal issues between various people.
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Idra was certainly baiting his fans to harass Chill via pm's. If you think otherwise, you are wrong. Why do you think he didn't apologize for it? Because thats what he wanted to happen.
And if you still think Cruncher cheated, go to his fan club page and read his post on page 23(or around there). He explains his build order. He didn't cheat. He played well.
Idra lost. It happens. But because he feels like he is a god among men, he can't accept the loss, neither can his fans.
He deserves the ban, He refused to apologize to Chill and says he will just keep doing shit like this. He deserves to be permabanned for that honestly. You have to have respect for TL. TL is bigger than Idra.
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United States4053 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:42 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:40 Loanshark wrote:On May 08 2011 08:35 Wiseman wrote:On May 08 2011 08:13 Mayor wrote:
Sigh, it's time for IdrA to grow up. Maybe its time for eSports to grow up? One competitor insulting another that they don't like after they intentionally did something to upset them? I'm sorry I don't see any real sport having a problem with competitors not liking each other to the point of insulting one another. I believe its called gamesmanship. It's just Idra, have you seen any other player do shit like this? CombatEX sends his regards.
im sorry but comparing IdrA to Combat-EX does not help his case at all, nor is it even close to a fair comparison
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On May 08 2011 08:43 dsousa wrote:
TL has jumped the shark.... like many great organizations it is killing itself by the rules that it makes and the individuals ego with some "power"
I've always considered myself at TL fan... even a proud t-shirt wearer..... but no more. I've been banned 3 times for basically not showing enough deference, and this is Idra's sin as well.
I choose Idra!
Fight the power!
The exit is right there you don't have to be here.
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It's not the moderators' job to check if people are cheating outside of their own tournaments. It's their job to manage the forums/website.
Sure Cruncher may of cheated, but it still does not justify Idra's actions afterwards. If people can bring solid evidence, not circumstantial evidence, the mods might take action on Cruncher. It is unlikely that will happen though. Idra deserves what he got, because he chose to go this way.
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idra has a incredible bad attitude, wich has a bad influence on his followers that like to blindly obey everything he says lawl
User was warned for this post
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ok...so idra said:
'everyone pm Chill if this upsets you'
automatically equals to
'idra encouraged his fans, through twitter, to harass and spam him on TL.'?
no, idra didnt encouraged his fans to harass and spam Chill on TL, idra suggested that if our fans are not happy that he is not streaming(which caused by the ban), we can complain/talk to Chill if we wish. whereas, if some immature fans who harassed/spamed Chill, their actions are not within idra's responsibility.
i take this as TL made this 3months ban because TL wanna punish us fans (especially those who harassed/spammed Chill).
i fully understand that this is TL's sc2 forum, and you guys have the absolute power, but cant you guys settle things with a warmer method?? at least use some less provoking methods so that you dont cause more rages/angst from people/fans??
if you look at the whole thing, nobody is a winner.
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CrunCher BMed IdrA in the third game of the TSL with his " "
He wasnt banned. Why is that ?
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On May 08 2011 08:36 meep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:34 Numy wrote:On May 08 2011 08:04 MaestroSC wrote:On May 08 2011 08:01 Supamang wrote:On May 08 2011 07:54 wei2coolman wrote:
I wouldn't say Idra was "encouraged" so much as said "if you want to know why I'm banned, PM Chill"
Encourage would be like "Yo, all spam Chill w/ PM's until he unbans me."
Whatever, I hope Idra just mans up and apologizes next time. Because the people missing out are the community members. Complete bullshit. Heres the actual quote: "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you"Dont try to spin that shit. Thats definitely "encouraging" his little band of sycophants to harass Chill. nowhere in there does he say to spam/harrass. You are the one spinning it into something it doesnt say because you want it to? Can a post get more ironic than this? I don't understand how naive you can be if you think Idra saying "pm Chill if you have a problem with this" is not inciting spam/harass. Either naive or convincing oneself that this is the case because you want some form of argument. I don't see anything wrong with the decision made. It's fair. we're only assuming that he means to spam/harass. just like we're assuming cruncher cheated (or did not).
Sometimes we are accountable for our actions regardless of our intent. There are plenty of examples of this in other sports as well in or legal system. I don't see why Idra should get a free pass just because we are not 100 % sure of what he meant? We know the outcome and it's reasonable for Idra to take some responsibility for it.
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On May 08 2011 08:45 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:42 TheRhox wrote:On May 08 2011 08:38 FallDownMarigold wrote:
That's absurd. Like it or now, I'm expressing my opinion without cussing or belittling anyone...just..wow. There goes the most skilled and entertaining streamer, le sigh Don't blame TL, all this means is that he just can't post on the forums for 90 days (as if he ever had any useful posts to begin with).. If he's not going to stream anymore, that's on his own volition. Who said I'm blaming TL? I'm stating the objective fact that it's absurd that somebody got banned from an online forum board for 90 days for something that did not occur on the board in question. Sounds to me like a bunch of side-personal issues between various people.
He was telling people to go on TL and PM a TL mod, how does this not have to do with TL?
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On May 08 2011 08:39 Citrone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 06:59 ReachTheSky wrote:
Can't agreed more with this ban. However, I think allowing his stream to still be listed is a mistake ;/. I think banning his stream for 90 days as well would make him think twice about misconduct. I don't know what your were thinking while typing this post. You do realise that he is not (primarily) streaming for his own profit right? Observing his decision making has helped me greatly develop my own gameplay. The mods are trying to approach this case in positive fashion to bring forth a solution which is satisfactory for everyone. I agree that such harsh words are absolutely inappropriate but nevertheless, I would like to know why ghosting streams of people who try to educate the masses isn't seen as a violation of TL rules. Insulting people in forums is prohibited, yet passively insulting them by spying on streams, essentially shitting on everything that could be considered sportmansship is okay. Just look at the games Idra played against cruncher and you'll see what I mean... You can bet that the day Idra closes his stream for whatever reason will be a sad day for me. just my 2 cents -C
If you don't want to be ghosted because you care about winning, there is a simple solution:
The "Off" Button on your Streaming client.
If you stream, people _will_ ghost you. It's cheating, it's bad, but it's still a fact. You either shrug it off as it was just ladder anyways, not even a tournament, or you shut down your stream and prevent it.
I bet anyone streaming his games was already ghosted (well, except me, but my stream has zero viewers anyways :p), but you don't hear any other streamer complaining about other people being a waste of life.
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This was definitely the right thing to do.
Idra's response to the 2-day ban shows that he did not regret his actions, he thinks it was okay and justifiable to call Cruncher a waste of life. I wish Idra would learn to see his shortcomings better, and admit that calling Cruncher what he did was not a good way to express his frustrations.
It is hilarious to watch Idra talk on his stream, but some humility in the right places and at the right times could go a long way.
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On May 08 2011 08:45 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:42 Denzil wrote:On May 08 2011 08:40 Loanshark wrote:On May 08 2011 08:35 Wiseman wrote:On May 08 2011 08:13 Mayor wrote:
Sigh, it's time for IdrA to grow up. Maybe its time for eSports to grow up? One competitor insulting another that they don't like after they intentionally did something to upset them? I'm sorry I don't see any real sport having a problem with competitors not liking each other to the point of insulting one another. I believe its called gamesmanship. It's just Idra, have you seen any other player do shit like this? CombatEX sends his regards. im sorry but comparing IdrA to Combat-EX does not help his case at all, nor is it even close to a fair comparison
As if his case currently solves anything right now. The ban will remain, Cruncher will remain uninvestigated and all this thread will do is bait arguments that will get nowhere but resulting in bans and warnings.
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On May 08 2011 08:45 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:42 TheRhox wrote:On May 08 2011 08:38 FallDownMarigold wrote:
That's absurd. Like it or now, I'm expressing my opinion without cussing or belittling anyone...just..wow. There goes the most skilled and entertaining streamer, le sigh Don't blame TL, all this means is that he just can't post on the forums for 90 days (as if he ever had any useful posts to begin with).. If he's not going to stream anymore, that's on his own volition. Who said I'm blaming TL? I'm stating the objective fact that it's absurd that somebody got banned from an online forum board for 90 days for something that did not occur on the board in question. Sounds to me like a bunch of side-personal issues between various people.
Chill had something like 170 PMs in his inbox over the first 20 hours, how does that not relate to the "board in question"
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On May 08 2011 08:35 Wiseman wrote:Maybe its time for eSports to grow up? One competitor insulting another that they don't like after they intentionally did something to upset them? I'm sorry I don't see any real sport having a problem with competitors not liking each other to the point of insulting one another. I believe its called gamesmanship.
That is one idea i didnt realize, what a wiseman
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I really think Idra's tweet is a question of semantics. I don't have the exact quote, but I believe he said "If you're upset with Chill's decision, pm him". This would have entirely different connotations had he replaced the word "upset" with "confused", "discontent", or just said "if you have any questions" instead.
The way he puts it he basically encourages everyone who felt agitated at the time to send non-constructive pm's about how they felt. This can of course easily be interpreted as spamming.
This I feel justifies the decision to ban Idra. I'm not versed enough in the whole CrunCher situation to comment on that.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:47 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:39 Citrone wrote:On May 08 2011 06:59 ReachTheSky wrote:
Can't agreed more with this ban. However, I think allowing his stream to still be listed is a mistake ;/. I think banning his stream for 90 days as well would make him think twice about misconduct. I don't know what your were thinking while typing this post. You do realise that he is not (primarily) streaming for his own profit right? Observing his decision making has helped me greatly develop my own gameplay. The mods are trying to approach this case in positive fashion to bring forth a solution which is satisfactory for everyone. I agree that such harsh words are absolutely inappropriate but nevertheless, I would like to know why ghosting streams of people who try to educate the masses isn't seen as a violation of TL rules. Insulting people in forums is prohibited, yet passively insulting them by spying on streams, essentially shitting on everything that could be considered sportmansship is okay. Just look at the games Idra played against cruncher and you'll see what I mean... You can bet that the day Idra closes his stream for whatever reason will be a sad day for me. just my 2 cents -C If you don't want to be ghosted because you care about winning, there is a simple solution: The "Off" Button on your Streaming client. If you stream, people _will_ ghost you. It's cheating, it's bad, but it's still a fact. You either shrug it off as it was just ladder anyways, not even a tournament, or you shut down your stream and prevent it. I bet anyone streaming his games was already ghosted (well, except me, but my stream has zero viewers anyways :p), but you don't hear any other streamer complaining about other people being a waste of life.
Or you can artificially delay your stream like they always do at online ''live tournaments''.
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On May 08 2011 08:43 Kassploj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:40 NightAngel wrote:On May 08 2011 07:51 Klogon wrote:First of all, if Cruncher is proven to have cheated, we will take action. We have no problem taking action against even the most high profile of players (ex. Dimaga and TSL2/3) but try to do so with careful deliberation. Please do not think our actions here are simply us spitefully swinging a banhammer. You'd be surprised by the pages of discussions we have of actions that involve high-profile community members, Idra included. Also, regarding the "harassing". On May 08 2011 07:05 Karthane wrote:
I don't necessarily think he was encouraging people to "harrass" them. He just said if you have a problem with it message Chill. Whatever though, in the end i think it's better to have IdrA here, streaming on TL. Brings more people here. Hell, he even got 20k to watch Sotg. On May 08 2011 07:20 Mysticvoid wrote:
I feel the 2 day ban was justified. Calling someone a waste a life is pretty low and should be punished. All fine and dandy, what I am not ok with is punishing someone for something they said outside of the forums. Idra didn't tell anyone to harass Chill, Idra said and I quote "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you." Yes he did tell his fans to PM Chill, did he tell them to insult him or harass him? No he didnt and I'm sorry but if mods can't handle getting PMs from people maybe they should reconsider being mods.
Idra on his twitter tried to imply that by being banned, he could no longer stream. That was false. And if we assume he knew it was also false (he probably did), we can then assume that he was maliciously misleading his thousands of twitter followers into a rage against Chill. Thus I think it is fair to say Idra did encourage his fans to go harass Chill. But can you PROVE it? I am very confused by all of the hypocrisy being shown as of late. I completely understand the need for direct and unwavering evidence, but I don't agree with taking action in one circumstance without proof and not so in another. Do you want logs from IdrA's mind at the time of his writing the post on Twitter, or what's the deal? There is no way of physically proving what IdrA's intentions were when writing the post, but to anyone applying common sense it is obvious.
Put it this way, does anyone here actually think that hundreds of PM's to Chill's inbox even all politely asking for Idra to be unbanned would've made a LICK of difference? Idra knew it'd make no difference and just cause Chill's inbox to be full with crap that he then would have to sort through. Idra's got a direct line to all the important staff on TL if he wanted to appeal his ban, you think 100's of random PM's from his twitter follower's to Chill would've had more pull than Idra himself. Hah...
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Seriously, he was banned for 2 months before, and what do you mean assuming? He clearly did not want to apologize to what he said on twitter and insisted that Chill deserved it, he didn't say "My fans misinterpreted my tweet and I'm sorry for that". All these people defending someone for acting unprofessional is upsetting. TL banning people because they are bad posters and not contributing to a civil environment deserved to be banned. Good job to TL for keeping this forums constructive and Good riddance to IdrA.
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EPT
