EPTShadow Blade might get buffed too, that item took the nerf stick pretty hard
6.82 Baseless Speculation / Hype Thread - Page 19
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tehh4ck3r
Magrathea7057 Posts
Shadow Blade might get buffed too, that item took the nerf stick pretty hard | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
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RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
On September 23 2014 08:25 FHDH wrote: The discussion started as people complaining Blink's viability has marginalized Force Staff and Shadowblade. I've already said I don't want to see Shadowblade get buffed as invis heroes are taxing enough at the current state of the game. Force Staff, however, is probably underpurchased as-is because people default to blink when many, including supports, should be getting Force instead in many games. The other perceived problem with Blink is that in the current blink-heavy meta, heroes like AM and QoP have been less sexy. I can see this argument but am not convinced by it, especially in AM's case where other factors in the meta are far more to blame for why he is not desirable. Are invis heroes really that problematic? I almost never see invis heroes picked up in pro games, except Invoker and on the rare occasion Tree, and neither of them are chosen primarily for their stealth. The bigger issue might be smoke ganks but I feel like shadow blade serves a different purpose. I like how blink opens up options for so many heroes, but it does seem really good when you consider that like, AM needs an item that's twice as expensive to even begin fulfilling his role on the team. Maybe a cost nerf to blink and a cost buff to force to make it more viable for supports? | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On September 23 2014 08:26 FHDH wrote: The cost is an item slot that gives you zero stats (and 2150g, obviously). It's not "no-cost." Even as a support, having blink which is SUPER useful, comes at the cost of having problems carrying other support items. Gets especially painful in invis games. I'm obviously talking about from a gameplay/game design perspective. For example if you removed the mana cost from AM/QoP, they would use it every cooldown just to walk around. Attaching a mana cost, even if a marginal 25 mana (which Force Staff has), to it makes it so there is actually a pro/con decision you have to make instead of herp derp blink everywhere. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2614 Posts
On September 23 2014 08:36 govie wrote: I dont buy blink because its usefull, i buy blink because the hero sucks (=unplayable) without it. The only one I can think of that that applies to is sand king. (e) and huh, hadn't thought of blink's no mana cost as a noncombat movement speed item before. I mean, it's effectively around 90 movespeed if spammed off cooldown to jump around, nevermind the "nonpathing" it gives via being able to hop over cliffs. | ||
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tehh4ck3r
Magrathea7057 Posts
Carry Alchemist has very bad stat growth, but he still doesn't have ASU (aghanim scepter upgrade) and I got an idea how to improve this hero's lategame potential. Aghanim Scepter Upgrade for Alchemist: Whenever Alchemist purchases Aghanim Scepter and picks it up, the item is CONSUMED and disappears from his inventory - he transmutes the item's benefits into his own stats. Stacks infinitely. You can repeat this process (buy multiple Aghanim Scepters and each will be consumed permanently increasing your stats). Basically, whenever you are 6-slotted, but are still swimming in gold, you can purchase an Aghanim Scepter which does nothing for you except for "eating" the item and permanently adding: +10 Strength +10 Agility +10 Intelligence +200 HP +150 Mana on top of whatever you have already, without using an item slot (but consuming the Aghanim scepter completely and forging it within Alchemist). You can "stack it" infinitely, which means you can purchase and transmute multiple Aghanim Scepters should you swim in that much gold late game. It wouldn't be OP because we already have Pudge, legion commander, Silencer who are scaling almost infinitely. And here we are with Alchemist who needs to buy (otherwise useless) aghanim scepter to upgrade permanently his mediocre stats. It is a way to effectively use his gold income in lategame once he has everything else he needs. He would be able to buy multiple but let's face it, you can buy a lot more useful items for your alchemist until you are 6-slotted, and only then will this ASU make sense to purchase. So this would only improve his ultra lategame potential as a carry who has such a great gold gain. Why do i make this suggestion? people say Alchemist cant be hard carry because he falls off lategame, he doesnt have great stat gain but he does have gold gain of a real flashfarmer thanks to the greevils greed and come lategame, he could as well just buy sentries for his team or whatever with that amazing gold income. Instead, let him improve his stats a bit by buying that costly Aghanim scepter (more than once if he wants). This also fits into his lore in my opinion because he is a freakin Alchemist who wants to transmute things into gold, goddamnit. Why wouldnt he be able to improve his Ogre using expensive ingredients? This would make Alchemist scale into the ultra lategame a bit better, let's say in those matches where heroes are way over 25000gold networth, alchemist can stack the stats from ASU to increase his survivability a bit. please tell me what do you think about this suggestion! via | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
I would like to see a change that pushes it back to situational except on heroes who need to initiate at long range into teams. Heroes who benefit from mobility but don't absolutely need it should prefer the utility and +int of force, and carries who want to jump single targets for solokills should prefer shadowblade. At the moment, literally everyone just goes hurrdurr blink and it's kind of boring. The challenge to me is that (with the possible exception of brewmaster), most of the "proper" blink heroes don't need any nerfs. It would be a real shame to send es/sk/magnus etc back to oblivion by returning a manacost, or cripple puck by increasing the break time. The other thing is that heroes with natural mobility are seriously undervalued when there's 3-4 heroes on every team that have dagger by 15 minutes. It's just kind of silly to have a whole team follow an antimage into the trees, especially when half of them had bought blink before he could even max his own. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
Are invis heroes really that problematic? I almost never see invis heroes picked up in pro games In pubs they can be and in pro games, 3-4 heroes on every team that have it by 15 minutes is not actually a thing. I'm obviously talking about from a gameplay/game design perspective From a gameplay/design standpoint, the opportunity cost of an occupied slot is a cost. | ||
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RoyGBiv_13
United States1275 Posts
On September 23 2014 08:50 tehh4ck3r wrote: I also really like this idea for an aghs upgrade to alch via My god that's brilliant. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On September 23 2014 08:58 FHDH wrote: From a gameplay/design standpoint, the opportunity cost of an occupied slot is a cost. And what does that have to do with how the item functions after you buy it? Right now you use it every CD just to get around. Why not remove the mana cost off Force Staff, or Shadowblade so they too can be used as mobility items along with their other purposes? Like I said, from a game design perspective it doesn't make sense. What you do is you balance the item first since it is something every hero can buy, and then go back and balance each individual hero within that framework. Blink having brought some more heroes into the meta is not an excuse for bad game design. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On September 23 2014 08:25 FHDH wrote: The discussion started as people complaining Blink's viability has marginalized Force Staff and Shadowblade. I've already said I don't want to see Shadowblade get buffed as invis heroes are taxing enough at the current state of the game. Force Staff, however, is probably underpurchased as-is because people default to blink when many, including supports, should be getting Force instead in many games. The other perceived problem with Blink is that in the current blink-heavy meta, heroes like AM and QoP have been less sexy. I can see this argument but am not convinced by it, especially in AM's case where other factors in the meta are far more to blame for why he is not desirable. Force Staff is still a staple of pro play. I doubt its pickup rate fell significantly, but I could be wrong (I'd like to see numbers on that). Shadowblade fell off, but that was more on its nerfs than the blink buff. AM really fell off, but that's a lot on the teamfight meta. QoP, yeah, I can agree with that, but being a ranged hero with a blink naturally makes her difficult to balance imo. | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
http://www.dota2.com/rekindlingsoul/ Just as we all knew it would? From the image it features Rosh/Bloodseeker/PL. Curious though if it is just image art, or if that ties into the notes | ||
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pedrlz
Brazil5234 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 23 2014 08:09 ahw wrote: Why are people calling for blink nerfs? Its a great item that promotes active games and ganks, while having utility for split push shenanigans. a good third of the hero pool depend on this item and the timings associated with it. the change to passive gold means you gotta buy something. blink or force is generally the best thing to buy. I don't see how this is a bad thing because of how much more strategic blink makes things. Blink is a viable and useful item on Storm Spirit. A hero who's defining ability is his mobility and he is made better by blink(clearly situational). It is so good it is viable on nearly every hero in the game. I am all about it being a good item, but it wouldn't be horrible if it wasn't a good pick up for almost every hero. And if people want a limited hero pool, nerfing passive gold would be the best way to make a bunch of heroes less viable. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 23 2014 09:32 LeLoup wrote: Well, it's coming http://www.dota2.com/rekindlingsoul/ Just as we all knew it would? From the image it features Rosh/Bloodseeker/PL. Curious though if it is just image art, or if that ties into the notes That looks like a monkey king. Or I want it to be a monkey king. | ||
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DV G
Argentina2339 Posts
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On September 23 2014 10:22 Plansix wrote: That looks like a monkey king. Or I want it to be a monkey king. I thought Monkey King had been debunked. | ||
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blobrus
4297 Posts
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DV G
Argentina2339 Posts
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