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On November 08 2015 12:13 Belisarius wrote:
For alc, I agree that radi-oct is not standard. There's a difference between this and jungle SK because jungle SK is usually optimal, while fakenaga-alc is only situationally optimal. It is very popular, though, so it's hard to ignore. If you do it, it should definitely be mid.
Maybe it is the standard; it's being used both in pub games and competitive games now that I look more into it.
Also see response on last page.
edit: going to sleep on it and wait for feedback.
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Yes, I agree with what you said last page.
It's a shame you can't see the demographics of the people using your guides. I wouldn't be surprised if you had a lot of subscribers well into 3-4k. There are plenty of people in that range that will be looking for guides on unfamiliar/randomed heroes but who are quite familiar with dota in general.
I mean, not that 3k is anything to write home about, but we're at least talking people who should be aware of the basics. It's probably worth considering that demographic more actively in your/our decisions.
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On November 08 2015 12:23 Belisarius wrote:
Yes, I agree with what you said last page.
It's a shame you can't see the demographics of the people using your guides. I wouldn't be surprised if you had a lot of subscribers well into 3-4k. There are plenty of people in that range that will be looking for guides on unfamiliar/randomed heroes but who are quite familiar with dota in general.
I mean, not that 3k is anything to write home about, but we're at least talking people who should be aware of the basics. It's probably worth considering that demographic more actively in your/our decisions.
My anecdotal experience is that it's most useful for people who've played under 1,000 hours.
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In general, low level players seem to be out of touch with CURRENT professional builds, but usually know about stuff from about ~6 months ago. Above 3k, you get more and more people either experimenting or copying fairly current professional builds. Although there's still some outdated nonsense above 3k of course 
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On November 08 2015 21:30 Acti wrote:
Awesome work Torte.
Thank you!
On November 08 2015 14:09 Birdie wrote:In general, low level players seem to be out of touch with CURRENT professional builds, but usually know about stuff from about ~6 months ago. Above 3k, you get more and more people either experimenting or copying fairly current professional builds. Although there's still some outdated nonsense above 3k of course
Our range of users is pretty wide. Wish I could talk to Valve just once to get insight on:
- MMR average of subscribers
- Number of total uniques subscriptions
All I can think of at this time
Got no electricity, fridge or internet at the apartment, so I'm back in the office from 11 to around 8-9 as usual. Will try to do more descriptions (20?)
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 updated, reversed to the traditional Battlefury build. Skills/Item descr. updated to mirror that change.
minor adjustments
 edit: is updated now
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SF should probably have a wand. I get not using the mek build as it's for pubs, but not totally sure about the current item build.
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 Doom (Lane)
Moved Black King Bar to Core Items
Removed Sange and Yasha
Doom (Jungle)
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Removed Sange and Yasha
 Broodmother
Added Stout Shield to Starting Items
Added Boots of Travel 2 to Extension Items
Added Eye of Skadi to Extension Items
Moved Orchid of Malevolence to Core Items
Moved Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items
Moved Desolator to Extension Items
Removed Dagon
Removed Abyssal Blade
Removed Boots of Travel
 Enchantress
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Removed Moon Shard
Storm Sprit
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
 Warlock (Middle)
Added Phase Boots to Core Items
Added Octarine Core to Extension Items
Warlock (Lane)
Added Octarine Core to Extension Items
 Phantom Assassin
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items
Added Sange and Yasha to Situational Items
Removed Heaven's Halberd
Removed Vladmir's Offering
 Bristleback
New Skill Build: W E W Q W R W E E E R Q Q Q R (1. Quill Spray 2. Bristleback 3. Viscous Nasal Goo)
 Slark (Lane)
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Sand King
New Skill Build: Q W W Q W Q Q R W E R E E E (1. Burrowstrike 2. Sand Storm 3. Caustic Finale)
Added Scythe of Vyse to Extension Items
Moved Veil of Discord to Extension Items
Removed Ethereal Blade
 Spectre
New Skill Build: Q W W E W R W E E E R Q Q Q R (1. Desolate 2. Dispersion 3. Spectral Dagger)
Removed Magic Wand
Removed Vitality Booster
 Invoker
New Skill Build: Q R Q W W W W Q W R W Q W E E R R E E E E E Q Q Q (1. Wex 2. Exort 3. Quas)
Created New Tab: "Luxury Items"
Added Healing Salve to Core Items
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Drums of Endurance to Core Items
Added Desolator to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel - Level 2 to "Luxury Items"
Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Moved Orchid of Malevolence to Extension Items
Moved Refresher Orb to "Luxury Items"
Moved Scythe of Vyse to "Luxury Items"
Moved Octarine Core to "Luxury Items"
Removed Hand of Midas
 Alchemist (Lane)
New Skill Build: E Q Q E Q R Q E E W R W W W R (1. Acid Spray 2. Greevil's Greed 3. Unstable Concoction)
Added Soul Ring to Early Game
Moved Sange and Yasha to Situational Items
Moved Quelling Blade to Starting Items
Moved Heart of Tarrasque to Luxury Items
Removed Iron Branch x2
Removed Magic Wand
Removed Maelstrom
Removed Mjollnir
Removed Boots of Speed
Removed Butterfly
Alchemist (Middle)
Added Heart of Tarrasque to Luxury Items
Juggernaut
New Skill Build: Q E Q Statis Q R Q W Stats Stats R W W W Stats R E E E (1. Blade Fury 2. Healing Ward 3. Blade Dance)
Added Enchanted Mango to Starting Items
Added Iron Branch
Added Battlefury to Core Items
Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items
Added Diffusal Blade - Level 2
Moved Ring of Aquila to Core Items
Moved Quelling Blade to Early Game
Moved Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Circlet of Nobility
Removed Wraith Band
Removed Mask of Madness
Removed Skull Basher
Removed Diffusal Blade - Level 1
Phantom Lancer
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q Stats Stats W R W W E E R E (1. Spirit Lance 2. Doppelganger 3. Phantom Rush)
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items
Added Boots of Speed to Early Game
Moved Power Treads to Core Items
Moved Quelling Blade to Situational Items
Removed Circlet of Nobility
Removed Wraith Band
Removed Ring of Basilius
Ember Spirit (Lane)
New Skill Build: Q E E Q E R E Q Q W W W W R Stats R (1. Flame Guard 2. Searing Chains 3. Sleight of Fist)
Created New Tab: "Utility Items"
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items
Added Town Portal Scroll to "Utility Items"
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Abyssal Blade to Luxury Items
Removed Clarity
Removed Quelling Blade
Ember Spirit (Middle)
New Skill Build: Q E E Q E R E Q Q W W W W R Stats R (1. Flame Guard 2. Searing Chains 3. Sleight of Fist)
Created New Tab: "Utility Items"
Added Town Portal Scroll to "Utility Items"
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Abyssal Blade to Luxury Items
 Lion
Added Iron Branch to Starting Items
 Medusa
Added Boots of Travel - Level 2 to Luxury Items
 Visage
Added Animal Courier to Starting Items
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items
Removed Ring of Protection
Nature's Prophet
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Created New Tab: "Luxury Items"
Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items
Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items
Added Tangos to Starting Items
Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Maelstrom to Core - Pusher
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Added Boots of Speed 2 to "Luxury Items"
Added Moon Shard to "Luxury Items"
Added Aghanim's Scepter to "Luxury Items"
Added Octarine Core to "Luxury Items"
Moved Ring of Basilius to Early Game
Moved Orchid of Malevolence to Core Items
Moved Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Moved Mjollnir to Extension Items
Moved Scythe of Vyse to Extension Items
Removed Solar Crest
 Venomancer
Added Arcane Boots to Core ITems
Moved Ring of Basilius to Core Items
Moved Boots of Speed to Core Items
Moved Magic Wand to Core Items
Moved Guardian Greaves to Situational ITems
Moved Force Staff to Extension Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Removed Eul's Scepter of Divinity
# of Hero Texts Updated: 112
+ Show Spoiler +
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What a fucking weight off my shoulder. Huge relief to just update all these builds; they were on my mind for 2 weeks straight.
edit: Monday morning, gonna try and get new written revisions in!
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I want to update Nature's Prophet after this stats report.
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Nature's Prophet
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Created New Tab: "Luxury Items"
Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items
Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items
Added Tangos to Starting Items
Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Maelstrom to Core - Pusher
Added Silver Edge to Situational Items
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Added Boots of Speed 2 to "Luxury Items"
Added Moon Shard to "Luxury Items"
Added Aghanim's Scepter to "Luxury Items"
Added Octarine Core to "Luxury Items"
Moved Ring of Basilius to Early Game
Moved Orchid of Malevolence to Core Items
Moved Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Moved Mjollnir to Extension Items
Moved Scythe of Vyse to Extension Items
Removed Solar Crest
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This will be in the old published notes, I just forgot to add it in.
I've revised Nature's Prophet entirely, but I still feel it is the wrong approach.
Edit: should be published, text outdated
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Quick question - what happened to make battlefury the standard build on Jugger? Was it buffs in 6.85 or something? I don't feel like the current state of the game really precipitates BF core. It appears to still be early fighting, now with fewer magic heavy, bursty lineups, and not a longer more farm oriented game. It almost feels like MoM is an even more viable core option as it might be less risky for fear of being burst down. Maybe not, I'm not necessarily a student of the game.
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Awesome work man. I always refer these guides to my friends who are new/bad
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On November 14 2015 09:21 villainzilla wrote:
Awesome work man. I always refer these guides to my friends who are new/bad
Thank you so much
On November 14 2015 09:12 BoZiffer wrote:
Quick question - what happened to make battlefury the standard build on Jugger? Was it buffs in 6.85 or something? I don't feel like the current state of the game really precipitates BF core. It appears to still be early fighting, now with fewer magic heavy, bursty lineups, and not a longer more farm oriented game. It almost feels like MoM is an even more viable core option as it might be less risky for fear of being burst down. Maybe not, I'm not necessarily a student of the game.
It was a choice between imitating what was being played competitively, or stick with the MoM build which was failing in success as of late (personal experience and from higher-level friends).
BF Core is the return of his previous build which is seeing a resurgence
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EPT
(Jungle/Lane)
(Lane/Middle)
(Jungle/Lane/Middle)
(Lane/Middle)
(Lane/Middle)
(Lane/Middle)
(Jungle/Lane)
(Lane/Middle)
(Lane/Middle)
(Jungle/Lane)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ghoqzZA.png)
