In that case you just misinterpreted my responses in that October conversation, which is saying the same thing that I'm saying now--that QEQE and QWQE are both fine.

QEQW just doesn't really make any sense because Aftershock only accomplishes anything with Enchant or Ulti.

Stancel

Singapore15360 Posts

October 12 2015 16:14 GMT

#4583

somewhat unrelated, but QWQE/QEQW is mandatory when they have an enemy rubick on the other team

which is pretty often

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

October 12 2015 16:15 GMT

#4584

I see my mistake. I thought the build I had was QWQE, but it's E first. My mind is a bit mixed.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

October 12 2015 16:16 GMT

#4585

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

October 12 2015 16:17 GMT

#4586

I've added

back on the "unsure" list. Off-hand, I want to move S&Y to Core and Aghs to Extension.

That or re-introduce a split build between Caster and Auto-Attacker.

Have to double-check skill build too

On a different note Windranger (Middle) has also gained a lot of recent popularity. She's being rated up to the top right now.

Velzi

Finland659 Posts

October 12 2015 20:50 GMT

#4587

Windranger Middle, remove Rod of Aui, no reason to have it there. Also there is no satanic, personally i like to get it like 5th or 6th item, any thoughts?

BluemoonSC

SoCal8933 Posts

October 12 2015 21:04 GMT

#4588

situationally, im sure atos is fine. if you can't get a shackle to hold someone down while you windrun, thats what its for.

satanic should probably be situational for after carries get their mkbs.

i also might switch blink and maelstrom in the core items, perhaps adding a value point booster in there somewhere.

in addition, lothar should definitely be in situational as well.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

October 12 2015 22:05 GMT

#4589

Satanic's not that good on WR, tbh--largely a problem of slots. Mobility item + Agha + 2 damage items + Boots is 5 slots. The kinds of situations where you can actually Satanic+FF without a BKB and not just get stunned (ignoring the possibility of a carry just walking up to a Satanic WR and trying to 1v1 you cuz that's stupid and shouldn't happen) are rare because WR's baseline survivability is so low, and you can't get both Satanic AND BKB without sacrificing one of the above items, which hurts your effectiveness in other ways (less damage or losing your mobility item). So for plain survivability, you'd rather have Skadi, Heart, or BKB, not to mention utility items like Linken or Sheep competing for that slot.

If you already have something like Mobility item + Agha + 1 damage item + BKB, and feel like you're super justified in needing a SECOND survivability item rather than a 2nd damage item or a utility item, then Satanic's probably fine, but I think ending up in that kind of scenario is pretty rare because it's not like WR actually wants to be in a situation where she only has 1 damage item and is just facetanking things.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8933 Posts

October 13 2015 00:31 GMT

#4590

Yeah I mean, if that's what's gonna keep her alive more than anything else, that's why it belongs in situational. Idk if it's really that niche, maybe it shouldn't go in.

But I do think Lothar should be in there along with the shuffle of maelstrom and blink dagger if you're gonna include maelstrom in her build. I remember specifically talking with yango about how it has to pretty much be first item or its not worth it.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

October 13 2015 15:37 GMT

#4591

I'll take a look after the shower. Should be reaching 45 text updates. I never want to do this again (but will prior to 6.86 patch)

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

October 14 2015 06:40 GMT

#4592

Timbersaw
New Skill Build: E Q W W W R W Q Q Q R E E E R (1. Timber Chain 2. Whirling Death 3. Reactive Armor)
Added Enchanted Mango to Starting Items
Removed Clarity x2

Pugna
Added Magic wand to Core Items
Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items
Moved Force Staff to Extension Items
Moved Veil of Discord to Extension Items

Earthshaker
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Fissue 2. Aftershock 2. Enchant Totem)
Added Eul's Scepter of Divinity
Moved Force Staff to Extension Items

Mirana
Moved Mjollnir to Extension Items

Tiny (Lane)

Tiny (Middle)
Removed Shiva's Guard

Windranger (Middle)
Added Orchid of Malevolence to Situational Items
Moved Force Staff to Core Items
Moved Blink Dagger to Situational Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Mjollnir

Windranger (Lane)
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Mjollnir

To watch for

itemization needs to be redone, wait for patch to play out
Double-check skill order
redo Lane/Middle build for Kunkka again
Holding off Enchanted Mango inclusion until more development
revisit later
double-check build (Aghs extension, S&Y, dual build?)
double-check item build
double-check item build

Hero Texts Updated:

(Lane/Middle)

(Lane/Middle)

(Jungle/Lane)

(Lane/Middle)

(Jungle/Lane)

(Middle/Lane)

I think players will enjoy the "combo" cheat-sheet I added in some of the ability descriptions. I am overhauling all text to include these cheat-sheets, better nuances of some of the heroes and a one-phrase "flaw" of their's in the general description.

It's a slow process, but we have until 6.86 (1 1/2 months).

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

October 14 2015 06:40 GMT

#4593

Will be publishing after this morning's feedback.

43 guide texts updated. Will push for two more tomorrow.

stats tomorrow, where will celebrate 100 million subscriptions
Article detailing it all probably in end of two weeks.

I feel a lot of guides are severely behind in their builds; but time is really lacking for me right now.

Buckyman

1364 Posts

October 14 2015 15:22 GMT

#4594

On October 14 2015 15:40 Torte de Lini wrote:
I feel a lot of guides are severely behind in their builds; but time is really lacking for me right now.

Is there anything I can help with?

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

October 14 2015 15:34 GMT

#4595

On October 15 2015 00:22 Buckyman wrote:

Show nested quote +

Is there anything I can help with?

It's just a verification process:

To watch for

itemization needs to be redone, wait for patch to play out
Double-check skill order
redo Lane/Middle build for Kunkka again
Holding off Enchanted Mango inclusion until more development
revisit later
double-check build (Aghs extension, S&Y, dual build?)
double-check item build
double-check item build

as I update each guide with new text, I also double-check the build. I haven't been keeping up with the latest matches, so I'm not in tune with what is currently being played.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

October 14 2015 16:21 GMT

#4596

Publishing Changes

Stancel

Singapore15360 Posts

October 14 2015 16:26 GMT

#4597

I don't think soulring is core on DS anymore - optional maybe, but definitely not a must. Arcanes would be your first item since it's part of Greaves anyway, and you don't need both Arcanes+Soulring when that 800 (from SR) could have been an earlier Energy Booster or even a casual cloak/buckler

I'd suggest a mango as a starting item instead of the soulring recipe, the burst mana could be an extra ion shell+surge if necessary

and vacuum's manacost and cd are high enough that it isn't worth using it for flash farming, just use a second or even a third ion shell instead

if you need early regen, ferry out tangos/clarities or buy a RoR from the sideshop to use it for a headdress later, you can also use the tangos to farm the radiant small+medium camp at the same time after pushing out bot lane (as dire off)

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

October 14 2015 17:56 GMT

#4598

On October 15 2015 01:26 Stancel wrote:
I don't think soulring is core on DS anymore - optional maybe, but definitely not a must. Arcanes would be your first item since it's part of Greaves anyway, and you don't need both Arcanes+Soulring when that 800 (from SR) could have been an earlier Energy Booster or even a casual cloak/buckler

I'd suggest a mango as a starting item instead of the soulring recipe, the burst mana could be an extra ion shell+surge if necessary

and vacuum's manacost and cd are high enough that it isn't worth using it for flash farming, just use a second or even a third ion shell instead

if you need early regen, ferry out tangos/clarities or buy a RoR from the sideshop to use it for a headdress later, you can also use the tangos to farm the radiant small+medium camp at the same time after pushing out bot lane (as dire off)

You typically get the Arcane Boots second and the Meka first I believe. So Soul Ring still has value and Guardian Greaves comes later.

I'll fix the build to remark the order.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

October 14 2015 18:33 GMT

#4599

SR still makes sufficient enough contribution to laning and farming power to get value. Like, having SR+Boots gives you vastly more lane stayability than plain Arcanes, and sometimes you go SR+Boots->Meka without Arcanes until you make Guardians. Arcanes actually makes SR better because you can use drop Arcanes->use SR to squeeze out extra mana.

There are games where SR won't impact your lane, but most of the time in pubs the lane stayability and farming sustainability pays off.

In general as a sidelaner you don't want to fall back on ferrying regen as a plan because courier time disruption heavily impacts mid lane. While I'm a huge proponent of later game clarity usage, early game sidelane courier usage bears a far heavier cost than just the gold value of the items you're sending.