In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 229

On October 09 2015 05:18 Belisarius wrote:
I mean now we're back on the fundamental "do you design the guides to mitigate people's suck, or do you encourage them to step up to a build that's probably beyond them?"

My vote would be EQEWW with a massive, underlined, circled in red YOU MUST STAND IN CREEPS TO PLAY TIMBERSAW in the description, but really anything is fine.

This hero's skillbuild is beyond flexible, so nothing you put will be optimal more than 20% of the time.

On October 09 2015 05:34 BluemoonSC wrote:


I think torte's general assumption is that no one really reads the skill descriptions too frequently, and simply wait for the yellow boxes to appear.

I think that inexperienced players are more likely to play passively in the lane than to walk up to a bunch of creeps to take damage on a hero they've played infrequently/never. Based on how you're "supposed" to offlane, that concept is unintuitive.

On October 12 2015 12:33 TheYango wrote:
Shaker skill order should be QWQE or QEQE (it's QEQW right now).

Like, the only reason to have Aftershock at 2 is if you really feel you need to have 2 Aftershock at 6 (very situational), otherwise there's no reason to have it over Enchant at 2.

On October 07 2014 03:10 TheYango wrote:

Rank 1 Aftershock isn't long enough for you to Echo->Fissure or Echo->Enchant without a break in the stun for them to interrupt you, while rank 2 is. This is why rank 2 Aftershock specifically is a breakpoint. Whether you get the first rank in Enchant Totem at 2, 4, or 8 depends on the game.


This is correct. "Standard" skill build should be maxed Corrosive by 7. Maxed Nethertoxin requires a player who's very confident in his ability to abuse it during early laning and careful positioning in fights before level 10. Neither of which would be true of someone who needs to follow a skill order from a guide.

On October 07 2014 04:05 babishh wrote:
I apologize if this question has been answered many times already, but why not getting enchant totem at lvl 4 instead of aftershock? I'd kick myself if an enemy got away because I didn't have a second stun available to stop him from tporting.

On October 07 2014 03:24 Sn0_Man wrote:
a value point in totem is always worth it after 2 in aftershock i'm pretty sure.
(as in, at level 8 after 4-0-2-1@7 although personally I always get it earlier)

On October 07 2014 03:28 Sn0_Man wrote:
Totem at 8 is still essentially only optimal if u have a blink at 6/7 which seems unlikely for most games.

Otherwise ur not gonna get to ult->fissure very often so the key benefit of aftershock 2 is limited and the value of a free extra proc + extra dmg from totem seems 100% worth it at 2 or 4 depending on how ur laning phase is going.

AKA totem at 8 seems bad for cookie cutter but w/e.

On October 07 2014 09:10 TheYango wrote:

Well, no, the other time you'd rather have totem at 8 is if you don't have Arcanes yet at 6/7, because without Arcanes, your mana is a bit too tight to actually use enough Enchant Totem enough for it to be worthwhile. At level 7, Earthshaker has 338 mana when Fissure+Echo is 315. A few Branches lets you squeeze out the 365 needed to fit an Enchant Totem in there, and you also have Stick charges, but if you're going to use Stick charges, a lot of the time you'd rather just cast a 2nd Fissure rather than the 1-2 Enchant Totems.

If you're doing well enough to have Arcanes at 6/7 (true of a safe trilane Shaker that can pull creeps freely) then earlier Totem is fine. But if you're on the poorer side (true of an offlane 2v2 Shaker who won't have any direct gold income unless he gets kills), it's totally reasonable to have a scenario where mana is tight enough for you that you'd rather wait till you have a few extra levels' worth of mana before you get Enchant Totem. Especially if Fissure is required as a defensive counter-pushing spell due to your teamcomp and you need to cast a Fissure to slow a push before a fight actually starts--you'll clarity up to make back some of the mana, but you'd be really hard pressed to fit all 3 spells into your mana even with stick charges if a fight happens soon after.

On October 13 2015 00:45 TheYango wrote:
The original discussion was originally QEQE vs QWQE. You originally settled on QEQE, which is fine.

Some time later, you decided to put Enchant at level 4 as some weird compromise.

(QEQW is the current skill order so you clearly DID keep it.)

The only reason to take E at 2 is because you ALSO want E at 4 so you can have 2E for your level 6 ulti. E doesn't really do anything when your only spell is Fissure. If you are only going to have 1 E by 6 anyway, having E at 2 doesn't do anything.

It's another case of trying to compromise between 2 situationally acceptable skill orders and ending up with something that's worse than either.