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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 226

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tehh4ck3r
Profile Joined August 2013
Magrathea7084 Posts
October 03 2015 02:56 GMT
#4501
On October 03 2015 11:45 Antisceptic wrote:
Hey Torte de Lini, I still can't edit textboxes on my guides. How do you fix this, or work around it? Is it a browser issue?


its a known bug on valve's end. there's a browser extension that you can use as a workaround https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/3lxz05/shoutout_to_uparnakra_who_made_a_fix_for_the_hero/
AdministratorIn those days, spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
Antisceptic
Profile Joined December 2014
Australia4 Posts
October 03 2015 03:33 GMT
#4502
Thanks!
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-03 21:58:49
October 03 2015 19:36 GMT
#4503
I'm West Coast now.

Are there any pressing issues to be repaired? I have a day before being busy once more for a week or so.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-04 06:17:29
October 04 2015 06:15 GMT
#4504
100 million achieved (100,023,490)
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
October 04 2015 06:39 GMT
#4505
c'est incroyable, well done lini
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-04 17:44:54
October 04 2015 17:42 GMT
#4506
On October 04 2015 15:39 Birdie wrote:
c'est incroyable, well done lini


merci.

We'll be making a summary article by the end of October.

as a short note: this 100 million came about 20 days earlier than predicted last year (at 40 million), but growth has been strangely steady (4 mil a month) since june 2014.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-04 23:43:31
October 04 2015 17:59 GMT
#4507


To watch for
  • itemization needs to be redone, wait for patch to play out
  • Double-check skill order
  • redo Lane/Middle build for Kunkka again
  • Holding off Enchanted Mango inclusion until more development
  • revisit later


Hero Texts Updated:

(Lane/Middle)


(Lane/Middle)


(Jungle/Lane)


(Lane/Middle)

(Lane/Middle)

(Jungle/Lane)



I think players will enjoy the "combo" cheat-sheet I added in some of the ability descriptions. I am overhauling all text to include these cheat-sheets, better nuances of some of the heroes and a one-phrase "flaw" of their's in the general description.

It's a slow process, but we have until 6.86 (1 1/2 months).
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-05 16:22:02
October 05 2015 16:21 GMT
#4508
[image loading]

1 million unique for Timbersaw

If interested in a timeline of 1 million hits and milestones, you can check it here: http://steamcommunity.com/id/0825771
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
October 05 2015 18:19 GMT
#4509
Skimmed last couple of pages.

On the idea of 1-4-1 Spectre build...its okay but I almost always split my Q and W evenly in games personally. Desolate is strong but the movement speed and damage on dagger are pretty significant. One point to two point dagger, for example, doubles its damage (50 to 100) and gives +50% movement speed (8% to 12%) for only 10 extra mana cost.

Unless I've got a specific reason to do something else I kinda feel the strongest is to split evenly. Though I find 4-1-1 in the guide to be a "safer" build due to the increased movement speed making running away a bit easier in an emergency and the higher damage meaning you don't necessarily have to be up in their face to take advantage of it (unlike Desolate).

I don't really go 1-4-1 unless I'm really bullying the lane or there are higher-than-usual possibilities of getting solo kills with Haunt (a jungler on the other team or a Zeus on mine, for example).
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
October 05 2015 18:32 GMT
#4510
On October 06 2015 03:19 -Celestial- wrote:
Skimmed last couple of pages.

On the idea of 1-4-1 Spectre build...its okay but I almost always split my Q and W evenly in games personally. Desolate is strong but the movement speed and damage on dagger are pretty significant. One point to two point dagger, for example, doubles its damage (50 to 100) and gives +50% movement speed (8% to 12%) for only 10 extra mana cost.

Unless I've got a specific reason to do something else I kinda feel the strongest is to split evenly. Though I find 4-1-1 in the guide to be a "safer" build due to the increased movement speed making running away a bit easier in an emergency and the higher damage meaning you don't necessarily have to be up in their face to take advantage of it (unlike Desolate).

I don't really go 1-4-1 unless I'm really bullying the lane or there are higher-than-usual possibilities of getting solo kills with Haunt (a jungler on the other team or a Zeus on mine, for example).


Build is currently 4-4-1-2 at 11.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
October 05 2015 19:13 GMT
#4511
On October 06 2015 03:32 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2015 03:19 -Celestial- wrote:
Skimmed last couple of pages.

On the idea of 1-4-1 Spectre build...its okay but I almost always split my Q and W evenly in games personally. Desolate is strong but the movement speed and damage on dagger are pretty significant. One point to two point dagger, for example, doubles its damage (50 to 100) and gives +50% movement speed (8% to 12%) for only 10 extra mana cost.

Unless I've got a specific reason to do something else I kinda feel the strongest is to split evenly. Though I find 4-1-1 in the guide to be a "safer" build due to the increased movement speed making running away a bit easier in an emergency and the higher damage meaning you don't necessarily have to be up in their face to take advantage of it (unlike Desolate).

I don't really go 1-4-1 unless I'm really bullying the lane or there are higher-than-usual possibilities of getting solo kills with Haunt (a jungler on the other team or a Zeus on mine, for example).


Build is currently 4-4-1-2 at 11.


this is only bc im at work and I can't see, but 4-4-1-2 at 11 doesn't mean anything if you're talking about the difference between going 4-1-1-1 vs 1-4-1-1 vs leveling dagger and desolate evenly.

truthfully, I think with the update and after having watched a couple of pro games with spectre, 1-4-1-1 is the way to play this patch bc of the desolate buff.

the only issue I have is that we're putting this into a "standard" guide, which means that lower lvl players might find themselves in dual-lane vs dual-lane scenarios where you're not actually getting the desolate damage. at the same time, at this lvl, players probably won't haunt to get the kill, dagger, then reality back to increase aoe gold and xp gain like we discussed, so is the dagger dmg worth it?

so is the increased farm speed worth the investment now that we've had some time to see how the change impacts her? realistically, the bonus dmg applying to jungle creeps means that you can do what an AM does: buy a QB and choke jungle in between pushing the waves.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-05 20:05:17
October 05 2015 20:01 GMT
#4512
Speaking of Spectre, remember what I said a few patches ago about being more likely to want Dispersion at 2 or 3 than Desolate? It still applies. PMS + Dispersion 1 is the point where I can stand in a contested lane and last hit, and I want it before level 4.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-05 20:22:17
October 05 2015 20:15 GMT
#4513
I'm pretty sure u don't buy clarities on timber on account of wanting to be tanking the wave roughly the entire game. If u can't be tanking the wave u only need enough mana for a timberchain out so yah. More hp regen is prolly a good buy since you still need enough regen to keep urself high enough HP to stand in lane. Especially a flask since it gets u back into the lane asap after getting low. It's just so crucial for timber to be in the creep wave almost all the time since with armor stacks hes a 10-armor 11 regen beast (ogre pls) and without them he's a 0 armor 1 regen squishy melee hero who can't contest shit.

Also I feel like there isn't a nice logical explanation in that guide that ur progression is manaboots + soulring -> bloodstone (brown boots now) -> other stuff. Aghs is less core than u make it out to be imo, since if u get it with a gimped bloodstone u can't really support it and really, damage isn't a problem MOST of the time for timber. It's definitely good, just not the "every game core" item that bloodstone is.

notes based off the img u posted

U could argue for just 1flask 1 tango i guess but timber's so momentum based that i'd rather just go to lane with bajillions of regen to give urself the best shot at winning the lane. It's not like darkseer who can just jungle to catch up, if ur lane goes poorly ur actually just a dead weight all game.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
October 05 2015 22:24 GMT
#4514
On October 06 2015 05:15 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm pretty sure u don't buy clarities on timber on account of wanting to be tanking the wave roughly the entire game. If u can't be tanking the wave u only need enough mana for a timberchain out so yah. More hp regen is prolly a good buy since you still need enough regen to keep urself high enough HP to stand in lane. Especially a flask since it gets u back into the lane asap after getting low. It's just so crucial for timber to be in the creep wave almost all the time since with armor stacks hes a 10-armor 11 regen beast (ogre pls) and without them he's a 0 armor 1 regen squishy melee hero who can't contest shit.

Also I feel like there isn't a nice logical explanation in that guide that ur progression is manaboots + soulring -> bloodstone (brown boots now) -> other stuff. Aghs is less core than u make it out to be imo, since if u get it with a gimped bloodstone u can't really support it and really, damage isn't a problem MOST of the time for timber. It's definitely good, just not the "every game core" item that bloodstone is.

notes based off the img u posted

U could argue for just 1flask 1 tango i guess but timber's so momentum based that i'd rather just go to lane with bajillions of regen to give urself the best shot at winning the lane. It's not like darkseer who can just jungle to catch up, if ur lane goes poorly ur actually just a dead weight all game.


Might be time to actually put in an Enchanted Mango (2?) for Timbersaw per chance.

I can add Soulring for Timbersaw, there was mention of it before and I opted not to include to keep the guide "concise"

We assume they are doing well with Bloodstone, I would still consider it above other extension items tbh
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
October 05 2015 22:26 GMT
#4515
On October 06 2015 04:13 BluemoonSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2015 03:32 Torte de Lini wrote:
On October 06 2015 03:19 -Celestial- wrote:
Skimmed last couple of pages.

On the idea of 1-4-1 Spectre build...its okay but I almost always split my Q and W evenly in games personally. Desolate is strong but the movement speed and damage on dagger are pretty significant. One point to two point dagger, for example, doubles its damage (50 to 100) and gives +50% movement speed (8% to 12%) for only 10 extra mana cost.

Unless I've got a specific reason to do something else I kinda feel the strongest is to split evenly. Though I find 4-1-1 in the guide to be a "safer" build due to the increased movement speed making running away a bit easier in an emergency and the higher damage meaning you don't necessarily have to be up in their face to take advantage of it (unlike Desolate).

I don't really go 1-4-1 unless I'm really bullying the lane or there are higher-than-usual possibilities of getting solo kills with Haunt (a jungler on the other team or a Zeus on mine, for example).


Build is currently 4-4-1-2 at 11.


this is only bc im at work and I can't see, but 4-4-1-2 at 11 doesn't mean anything if you're talking about the difference between going 4-1-1-1 vs 1-4-1-1 vs leveling dagger and desolate evenly.

truthfully, I think with the update and after having watched a couple of pro games with spectre, 1-4-1-1 is the way to play this patch bc of the desolate buff.

the only issue I have is that we're putting this into a "standard" guide, which means that lower lvl players might find themselves in dual-lane vs dual-lane scenarios where you're not actually getting the desolate damage. at the same time, at this lvl, players probably won't haunt to get the kill, dagger, then reality back to increase aoe gold and xp gain like we discussed, so is the dagger dmg worth it?

so is the increased farm speed worth the investment now that we've had some time to see how the change impacts her? realistically, the bonus dmg applying to jungle creeps means that you can do what an AM does: buy a QB and choke jungle in between pushing the waves.


We should assume 2v2 in lanes.

We should also assume that this guide pushes for proactivity during fights and such as these guides add confidence and direction on how to do it.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-06 00:45:07
October 06 2015 00:44 GMT
#4516
On October 06 2015 04:13 BluemoonSC wrote:
players probably won't haunt to get the kill, dagger, then reality back to increase aoe gold and xp gain like we discussed, so is the dagger dmg worth it?


Since we're talking about the average pub game I'd argue that the increased movement speed is far more significant than the increased damage (which is just a bonus). Having the improved escape capability and chasing potential is pretty big.
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
October 06 2015 01:23 GMT
#4517
On October 06 2015 07:24 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2015 05:15 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm pretty sure u don't buy clarities on timber on account of wanting to be tanking the wave roughly the entire game. If u can't be tanking the wave u only need enough mana for a timberchain out so yah. More hp regen is prolly a good buy since you still need enough regen to keep urself high enough HP to stand in lane. Especially a flask since it gets u back into the lane asap after getting low. It's just so crucial for timber to be in the creep wave almost all the time since with armor stacks hes a 10-armor 11 regen beast (ogre pls) and without them he's a 0 armor 1 regen squishy melee hero who can't contest shit.

Also I feel like there isn't a nice logical explanation in that guide that ur progression is manaboots + soulring -> bloodstone (brown boots now) -> other stuff. Aghs is less core than u make it out to be imo, since if u get it with a gimped bloodstone u can't really support it and really, damage isn't a problem MOST of the time for timber. It's definitely good, just not the "every game core" item that bloodstone is.

notes based off the img u posted

U could argue for just 1flask 1 tango i guess but timber's so momentum based that i'd rather just go to lane with bajillions of regen to give urself the best shot at winning the lane. It's not like darkseer who can just jungle to catch up, if ur lane goes poorly ur actually just a dead weight all game.


Might be time to actually put in an Enchanted Mango (2?) for Timbersaw per chance.

I can add Soulring for Timbersaw, there was mention of it before and I opted not to include to keep the guide "concise"

We assume they are doing well with Bloodstone, I would still consider it above other extension items tbh


i think timber is one of the few heroes where a mango makes sense.

On October 06 2015 09:44 -Celestial- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2015 04:13 BluemoonSC wrote:
players probably won't haunt to get the kill, dagger, then reality back to increase aoe gold and xp gain like we discussed, so is the dagger dmg worth it?


Since we're talking about the average pub game I'd argue that the increased movement speed is far more significant than the increased damage (which is just a bonus). Having the improved escape capability and chasing potential is pretty big.


its true, however with the new phase boots + oov, the only difference IS the damage.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
October 06 2015 04:46 GMT
#4518
On October 06 2015 10:23 BluemoonSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2015 07:24 Torte de Lini wrote:
On October 06 2015 05:15 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm pretty sure u don't buy clarities on timber on account of wanting to be tanking the wave roughly the entire game. If u can't be tanking the wave u only need enough mana for a timberchain out so yah. More hp regen is prolly a good buy since you still need enough regen to keep urself high enough HP to stand in lane. Especially a flask since it gets u back into the lane asap after getting low. It's just so crucial for timber to be in the creep wave almost all the time since with armor stacks hes a 10-armor 11 regen beast (ogre pls) and without them he's a 0 armor 1 regen squishy melee hero who can't contest shit.

Also I feel like there isn't a nice logical explanation in that guide that ur progression is manaboots + soulring -> bloodstone (brown boots now) -> other stuff. Aghs is less core than u make it out to be imo, since if u get it with a gimped bloodstone u can't really support it and really, damage isn't a problem MOST of the time for timber. It's definitely good, just not the "every game core" item that bloodstone is.

notes based off the img u posted

U could argue for just 1flask 1 tango i guess but timber's so momentum based that i'd rather just go to lane with bajillions of regen to give urself the best shot at winning the lane. It's not like darkseer who can just jungle to catch up, if ur lane goes poorly ur actually just a dead weight all game.


Might be time to actually put in an Enchanted Mango (2?) for Timbersaw per chance.

I can add Soulring for Timbersaw, there was mention of it before and I opted not to include to keep the guide "concise"

We assume they are doing well with Bloodstone, I would still consider it above other extension items tbh


i think timber is one of the few heroes where a mango makes sense.

i think with the cost buff, mango is fine on any hero that 1. needs mana for an important earlygame skill 2. wont have slot problems due to buying mango and 3. will use the hp regen, and this situation comes up fairly frequently. it's literally the most cost efficient +1hp/s you can get now (250 vs 350 for 2hp/s vs ring of regen). over 7m40s of not having full health, it heals as much as a set of tangoes.
posting on liquid sites in current year
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
October 06 2015 17:41 GMT
#4519
On October 06 2015 13:46 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2015 10:23 BluemoonSC wrote:
On October 06 2015 07:24 Torte de Lini wrote:
On October 06 2015 05:15 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm pretty sure u don't buy clarities on timber on account of wanting to be tanking the wave roughly the entire game. If u can't be tanking the wave u only need enough mana for a timberchain out so yah. More hp regen is prolly a good buy since you still need enough regen to keep urself high enough HP to stand in lane. Especially a flask since it gets u back into the lane asap after getting low. It's just so crucial for timber to be in the creep wave almost all the time since with armor stacks hes a 10-armor 11 regen beast (ogre pls) and without them he's a 0 armor 1 regen squishy melee hero who can't contest shit.

Also I feel like there isn't a nice logical explanation in that guide that ur progression is manaboots + soulring -> bloodstone (brown boots now) -> other stuff. Aghs is less core than u make it out to be imo, since if u get it with a gimped bloodstone u can't really support it and really, damage isn't a problem MOST of the time for timber. It's definitely good, just not the "every game core" item that bloodstone is.

notes based off the img u posted

U could argue for just 1flask 1 tango i guess but timber's so momentum based that i'd rather just go to lane with bajillions of regen to give urself the best shot at winning the lane. It's not like darkseer who can just jungle to catch up, if ur lane goes poorly ur actually just a dead weight all game.


Might be time to actually put in an Enchanted Mango (2?) for Timbersaw per chance.

I can add Soulring for Timbersaw, there was mention of it before and I opted not to include to keep the guide "concise"

We assume they are doing well with Bloodstone, I would still consider it above other extension items tbh


i think timber is one of the few heroes where a mango makes sense.

i think with the cost buff, mango is fine on any hero that 1. needs mana for an important earlygame skill 2. wont have slot problems due to buying mango and 3. will use the hp regen, and this situation comes up fairly frequently. it's literally the most cost efficient +1hp/s you can get now (250 vs 350 for 2hp/s vs ring of regen). over 7m40s of not having full health, it heals as much as a set of tangoes.


the only reason I'm going to disagree with you is the value of having more HP/s over a shorter period of time allowing you to get back in lane faster if something happens to you faster than a mango would. but that is a completely situational disagreement, because everything you said is correct
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
October 06 2015 17:45 GMT
#4520
stout flask tango mango branch branch seems fine
unless u can't afford then skip a branch no biggie
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
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