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Blink rush is pretty questionable to me. It's for very specific games where you absolutely have to get doom off on a key target at the start of a fight and don't mind that you do nothing afterwards. I would not call it cookie-cutter at all. Also, to catch antimage etc you want sblade instead.
I don't think racecar doom is that bad. Phase+drums was pretty common when he was last popular and he righclicks just fine with a critwolf. It relies on running enough people down under doom that you snowball through to whatever's next, but I don't think it's awful.
Really, doom can kinda do everything. He can (drums)+(mobility)+SnY+AC rightclicker, he can shivas+aghs+refresh caster, he can even greaves+blink utility. The problem is that the jury's still out on whether he does any of that particularly well.
I think caster doom is probably the strongest but something like drums to shore up his pre-aghs/shivas game is okay to me.
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I'm sorry so what's the item build order?
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I'm honestly not sure. He's so flexible that it will probably take a while for the changes to settle. I think at minimum you take blink out of core.
Personally I like (midas)+phase+(drums)->(shadowblade)->shivas/aghs and then BKB/AC/refresh/heart? depending on what the team needs, but it does sometimes feel like I'm trying to do too many things.
Tranqs->???->aghs->shivas->stuff is probably cleaner.
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I got some pushback for wanting to do that.
Also for Riki: was thinking of adding Sange and Yasha again AFTER Diffusal
Might be time to bring back the dual-build for Doom.
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SoCal8933 Posts
On September 29 2015 19:48 Torte de Lini wrote:
I got some pushback for wanting to do that.
Also for Riki: was thinking of adding Sange and Yasha again AFTER Diffusal
Might be time to bring back the dual-build for Doom.
you can probably run two core builds for doom.
as for riki, sny isn't a horrible idea to put before diffusal. or at least the casual yasha.
but im not gonna lie, im biased towards a casual yasha on agi heroes like riki, slark, etc.
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I really hate the first two weeks after a patch hits.
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On September 29 2015 20:07 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2015 19:48 Torte de Lini wrote:
I got some pushback for wanting to do that.
Also for Riki: was thinking of adding Sange and Yasha again AFTER Diffusal
Might be time to bring back the dual-build for Doom. you can probably run two core builds for doom. as for riki, sny isn't a horrible idea to put before diffusal. or at least the casual yasha. but im not gonna lie, im biased towards a casual yasha on agi heroes like riki, slark, etc.
Casual yasha and casual ring of health are super helpful on a lot of heroes. And casual PMS. And Doom is one of those heroes that I have literally no idea what to do with. Expect maybe build armor because of his str gain.
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I don't understand why Doom gets Tranquils over Phase + casual armor item (medallion?). The phase boost seems necessary to stick to targets in a fight.
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End of today, I'll make a choice on how to build Doom.
I am leaning heavily towards:
Phase Boots, Magic Wand, Drums of Endurance, Sange and Yasha, Aghanim's Scepter
Situational: Hand of Midas, Vladmir's Offering, Black King Bar, Blink Dagger, Silver Edge
Extension: Assault Cuirass, Shiva's Guard, Heart of Tarrasque
Luxury: Boots of Travel, Refresher's Orb
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On September 30 2015 00:07 Torte de Lini wrote:
End of today, I'll make a choice on how to build Doom.
I am leaning heavily towards:
Phase Boots, Magic Wand, Drums of Endurance, Sange and Yasha, Aghanim's Scepter
Situational: Hand of Midas, Vladmir's Offering, Black King Bar, Blink Dagger, Silver Edge
Extension: Assault Cuirass, Shiva's Guard, Heart of Tarrasque
Luxury: Boots of Travel, Refresher's Orb
phase boots are fine, wand is fine, drums are questionable, sny is horrible, aghanim's is great.
midas is good for doom, but i wouldnt want my 2k teammate rush midas and be useless for 25 minutes so no thx. vladmirs is fine but i guess it needs to either drums or vlads, u dont want to get stuck with too many mid-tier items with doom. BKB is great, doesnt even need to be situational, even core seems better. Blink dagger is good, but again situational or core, depends on how u want to approach ur way to stick on the target (ms vs utility/movement). Silver edge is fine as situational vs certain heroes, but then again i dont know if doom is the one picking it (i guess it could be either blink or SE for initiation or initiation+break purposes).
Extension i think Shivas is just way better than ac because u are going to get refresher orb and without shivas u dont have mana pool to sustain double r + e spam. HoT is nice but then again u need shivas first to make hp more effective and i think u dont need the hp pool increase with doom since u have high str gain and aghs+bkb most likely before shivas anyways.
Luxury BoT is obvious no question, refresher is fine as luxury too (maybe there should be like shivas -> refresher -> BoT in luxury.
So overall i would move items to different sections and remove some of them, my build would be then:
Core: phase/tranqs -> drums/vlads ->
Extension :aghs -> blink/SE ->
Situational (BKB) / Gem ->
Luxury: -> Shivas -> Refresher -> BoT -> replace drums/vlads with f.e. heart, octarine core or hex
or u can move blink/SE to situational but then again i really think u need one of those if not both.
E:
Empire.Silent currently playing doom vs. 4C&L and went for Phase Wand Drums Vlads. (i can edit rest of the build later, game is still going)
So the Final Build Phase Wand Drums Vlads BKB when they won. Cant tell if he was the safelane farmer (i think he was considering their line-up) if that changes anything
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On September 30 2015 00:52 Velzi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2015 00:07 Torte de Lini wrote:
End of today, I'll make a choice on how to build Doom.
I am leaning heavily towards:
Phase Boots, Magic Wand, Drums of Endurance, Sange and Yasha, Aghanim's Scepter
Situational: Hand of Midas, Vladmir's Offering, Black King Bar, Blink Dagger, Silver Edge
Extension: Assault Cuirass, Shiva's Guard, Heart of Tarrasque
Luxury: Boots of Travel, Refresher's Orb
phase boots are fine, wand is fine, drums are questionable, sny is horrible, aghanim's is great. midas is good for doom, but i wouldnt want my 2k teammate rush midas and be useless for 25 minutes so no thx. vladmirs is fine but i guess it needs to either drums or vlads, u dont want to get stuck with too many mid-tier items with doom. BKB is great, doesnt even need to be situational, even core seems better. Blink dagger is good, but again situational or core, depends on how u want to approach ur way to stick on the target (ms vs utility/movement). Silver edge is fine as situational vs certain heroes, but then again i dont know if doom is the one picking it (i guess it could be either blink or SE for initiation or initiation+break purposes). Extension i think Shivas is just way better than ac because u are going to get refresher orb and without shivas u dont have mana pool to sustain double r + e spam. HoT is nice but then again u need shivas first to make hp more effective and i think u dont need the hp pool increase with doom since u have high str gain and aghs+bkb most likely before shivas anyways. Luxury BoT is obvious no question, refresher is fine as luxury too (maybe there should be like shivas -> refresher -> BoT in luxury. So overall i would move items to different sections and remove some of them, my build would be then: Core: phase/tranqs -> drums/vlads -> Extension :aghs -> blink/SE -> Situational (BKB) / Gem -> Luxury: -> Shivas -> Refresher -> BoT -> replace drums/vlads with f.e. heart, octarine core or hex or u can move blink/SE to situational but then again i really think u need one of those if not both. E: Empire.Silent currently playing doom vs. 4C&L and went for Phase Wand Drums Vlads. (i can edit rest of the build later, game is still going) So the Final Build Phase Wand Drums Vlads BKB when they won. Cant tell if he was the safelane farmer (i think he was considering their line-up) if that changes anything
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1829847877
Here's the match
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SoCal8933 Posts
does vlads stack with packleader aura? if so, the pickup makes perfect sense. so does phase drums to keep up with someone while you have scorched earth + doom on someone)
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 Spectre
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Spectral Dagger 2. Desolate 3. Dispersion)
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"
Added Wraith Band to "Early Game"
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Moved Ring of Aquila to "Early Game"
Removed Morbid Mask
Removed Vitality Booster
 Alchemist (Lane)
New Skill Build: E Q Q W Q R Q E E E R W W W (1. Acid Spray 2. Greevil's Greed 3. Unstable Concoction)
Added Quelling Blade to Situational Items
Moved Maelstrom to Core Items
Alchemist (Middle)
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Luxury Items
Moved Bottle to Core Items
Moved Solar Crest to Extension Items
Moved Abyssal Blade to Luxury Items
Removed Boots of Speed
Removed Mjollnir
Removed Daedalus
Removed Butterfly
Removed Boots of Travel
Chaos Knight
Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items
Ogre Magi
Added Guardian Greaves to Situational Items
Removed Mekansm
 Witch Doctor
New Skill Build: Q E Q E Q R Q E E W R W W W R (1. Paralyzing Cask 2. Maledict 3. Voodoo Restoration
Added Power Treads to Core Items
Added Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items
Added Solar Crest to Extension Items
Moved Boots of Speed to Core Items
Moved Magic Wand to Core Items
Removed Arcane Boots
Removed Drums of Endurance
Removed Shiva's Guard
Terrorblade
New Skill Build: E Q E W E R E Q Q Q R W W W R (1. Reflection 2. Metamorphosis 3. Conjure Image)
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Drums of Endurance to Core Items
Added Boots of Travel 2 to Luxury Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Luxury Items
Removed Boots of Travel
 Doom (Lane)
Created New Tab: "Luxury Items"
Added Stout Shield to Starting Items
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items
Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items
Added Phase Boots to Core Items
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Silver Edge to Situational Items
Added Sange and Yasha to Extension Items
Moved Hand of Midas to Core Items
Moved Drums of Endurance to Core Items
Moved Blink Dagger to Situational Items
Moved Refresher Orb to "Luxury Items"
Moved Heart of Tarrasque to "Luxury Items"
Moved Boots of Travel to "Luxury Items"
Removed Heaven's Halberd
Removed Boots of Speed
Removed Tranquil Boots
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Doom (Jungle)
New Skill Build: Q W W Q Q R Q W W E R E E E R (1. Devour 2. Scorched Earth 3. LVL? Death)
Created New Tab: "Luxury Items"
Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items
Added Phase Boots to Core Items
Added Silver Edge to Situational Items
Added Sange and Yasha to Extension Items
Moved Vladmir's Offering to Core Items
Moved Refresher Orb to "Luxury Items"
Moved Heart of Tarrasque to "Luxury Items"
Moved Boots of Travel to "Luxury Items"
Removed Heaven's Halberd
Removed Boots of Speed
Removed Tranquil Boots
Removed Scythe of Vyse
 Huskar
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Moved Heaven's Halberd to Core Items
Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items
Legion Commander (Lane)
Legion Commander (Jungle)
Added Silver Edge to Situational Items
Added Armlet of Mordiggan to Situational Items
Added Desolator to Situational Items
Added Monkey King Bar to Luxury Items
 Undying
Added Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Moved Solar Crest Extension Items
Removed Rod of Atos
 Ursa (Lane)
Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
To watch for
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 itemization needs to be redone, wait for patch to play out
- Double-check
 skill order
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 redo Lane/Middle build for Kunkka again
- Holding off Enchanted Mango inclusion until more development
Hero Texts Updated:
(Lane/Middle)
(Lane/Middle)
(Jungle/Lane)
(Lane/Middle)
(Lane/Middle)
(Jungle/Lane)
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you don't take a value point in e if ur going 4-4-0-1 on spec
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On September 30 2015 05:34 Thetwinmasters wrote:
you don't take a value point in e if ur going 4-4-0-1 on spec
I believe that's more preference than rule.
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Publishing Changes, Stats Coming Now
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