Lane could be changed to max pact, I haven't considered it in a long time.

Stats will be a day late if I can't get them in tonight, Im in a shithole of a temp. apartment that is literally making me sick.

Logo

United States7542 Posts

January 15 2015 21:36 GMT

#2782

If you max pact aren't you missing out of Slark's ability to be really slippery and hard to nail down from the pounce CD reduction?

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

January 15 2015 21:41 GMT

#2783

On January 16 2015 06:36 Logo wrote:
If you max pact aren't you missing out of Slark's ability to be really slippery and hard to nail down from the pounce CD reduction?

You still max Pounce by 10, its not like you never get it.

The only time you need the 2nd pounce to get out is if you used the first one to engage, but if you max Pact you're making the deliberate choice to farm for a few more levels anyway--which is fine given how crazy fast 4-x-x Slark farms.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

January 15 2015 22:01 GMT

#2784

A bit strange to start advocating max Pact only because Pounce has been lowered in damage. That is to say, why didn't we make the build max Pact before and have Slark start ganking at level 9-11 (with the better farm and his first major item at least). Instead of doing it now when the damage is no longer viable (but the CD and leash time is still good).

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

January 15 2015 22:08 GMT

#2785

There was always an argument for pact maxing, but pounce max was easier to play because you had it on a much shorter cooldown and you only left a trivial amount of damage on the table by maxing pounce over pact, not enough to compensate for the difference in CD reduction between the skills. Maxing pounce gave pact and pounce essentially the same cooldown at a very early stage which is good.

However, now that the damage difference is so large and also because early aggression is less reliable compared to the past, a more farm-oriented pact max build is almost certainly optimal unless you know exactly why you need max pounce at 7.

Even for a mid slark i'd argue that being able to pact to push out waves and secure runes is pretty good but having max pounce does make ganking better imo.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

January 15 2015 22:33 GMT

#2786

It was always pretty situational either way. The reason we had Pounce max before was because that was what was "popular", even though that kind of means shit because again, it was always a pretty situational decision.

tehh4ck3r

Magrathea7063 Posts

January 15 2015 22:47 GMT

#2787

If you're fighting/ganking a lot max pounce is better (even with the damage nerfs) since you need to be able to land pounce in order to get the dark pact damage reliably

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

January 15 2015 22:51 GMT

#2788

okay but maxing pounce doesn't improve your ability to land one unless you are chasing for at least 8 seconds after your first attempt since the only difference to the travel part is the CD. And the window where ur pounce isn't maxed is still fairly small since you farm very rapidly.

Logo

United States7542 Posts

January 16 2015 00:12 GMT

#2789

On January 16 2015 07:51 Sn0_Man wrote:
okay but maxing pounce doesn't improve your ability to land one unless you are chasing for at least 8 seconds after your first attempt since the only difference to the travel part is the CD. And the window where ur pounce isn't maxed is still fairly small since you farm very rapidly.

I suppose a newbie slark with max pact is more likely to be accidentally useful even if they miss pounce so it certainly would have that going for it.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

January 16 2015 08:48 GMT

#2790

Lina
Guess it's time to update Lina

should we do a mid Lina?

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

January 16 2015 08:50 GMT

#2791

As for Slark, I want to see the change push out before changing it. I think we're getting ahead of ourselves, but I do like making Middle Slark more about Pounce and Lane more about max Dark Pact

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

January 16 2015 08:58 GMT

#2792

Are you really going to care what that guy thinks when his Lina guide which he says is better suggests no regen start, Agha 2nd item, and 4-1-4 skill order?

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

January 16 2015 09:02 GMT

#2793

Storm Spirit
New Skill Build: Q E E W E R W W E Q R Q Q W (1. Overload 2. Static Remnant 3. Electric Vortex)

Razor
Removed Mekansm
Added Drums of Endurance to Core Items

Lina
New Skill Build: W Q Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Dragon Slayer 2. Light Strike Array 3. Fiery Soul)
Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items
Removed Arcane Boots
Added Power Treads to Core Items
Created New Tab: Luxury Items - Carry
Added Black King Bar to Extension Items
Added Monkey King Bar to Luxury Items - Carry
Added Daedalus to Luxury Items - Carry
Added Desolator to Luxury Items - Carry
Added Boots of Travel to Luxury Items - Carry

Juggernaut
Removed Battlefury
Added Maelstrom to Core Items - Carry
Added Skull Basher to Core Items - Carry
Added Mjollnir to Extension Items
Moved Sange & Yasha to Core Items - Aghanim's
Added Manta Style to Core Items - Carry
Added Monkey King Bar to Situational Items
Added Diffusal Blade to Situational Items

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

January 16 2015 09:03 GMT

#2794

On January 16 2015 17:58 TheYango wrote:
Are you really going to care what that guy thinks when his Lina guide which he says is better suggests no regen start, Agha 2nd item, and 4-1-4 skill order?

I do think a value point in Fiery Soul could prove more useful.
I found the comment amusing nevertheless. Also a sign that top dogs in specific guides are slowly losing influence.

So I guess no mid guide?

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

January 16 2015 09:07 GMT

#2795

Value point in FS is a lot better now after the nuke damage adjustments in 6.83. Still not a dealbreaker whether or not you have it since it can still go either way depending on the game.

I personally don't think mid Lina is very newbie-friendly (you kind of need to know what you're doing in order to develop enough of an advantage for it to be worth it), but whatever.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

January 16 2015 09:09 GMT

#2796

On January 16 2015 18:07 TheYango wrote:
Value point in FS is a lot better now after the nuke damage adjustments in 6.83. Still not a dealbreaker whether or not you have it since it can still go either way depending on the game.

I personally don't think mid Lina is very newbie-friendly (you kind of need to know what you're doing in order to develop enough of an advantage for it to be worth it), but whatever.

That was my thought as well that Mid Lina might not prove as useful unless you can do the whole trick together.

But then again, I also thought that just the early nuke and Dragon Slayer would be pretty well-received at lower levels. not exactly hard

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Belisarius

Australia6233 Posts

January 16 2015 09:45 GMT

#2797

I think mid Lina is fine.

At the end of the day she has a ton of waveclear and can nuke for enough hp to solokill a big chunk of the pool. She does need to snowball, but her tempo isn't that unreasonable considering how likely she is to get random kills with her damage.

It's definitely a thing so it should probably have a guide.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

January 16 2015 09:47 GMT

#2798

On January 16 2015 18:45 Belisarius wrote:
I think mid Lina is fine.

At the end of the day she has a ton of waveclear and can nuke for enough hp to solokill a big chunk of the pool. She does need to snowball, but at the end of the day her tempo isn't that unreasonable considering how likely she is to get random kills with her damage.

It's definitely a thing so it should probably have a guide.

A thing or a standard way to play?

I think with Mid Lina, I would skip drums, go straight Blink into Eul's into Aghs

Belisarius

Australia6233 Posts

January 16 2015 11:02 GMT

#2799

Idk there's a fair number of things here I wouldn't consider standard, like lv1 jungle lifestealer (which is still your most popular guide). I think mid Lina deserves a place.

Personally I think euls->blink->aghs. Euls gives you mana to farm and fight, which helps her maintain her already pretty shaky tempo, and the guaranteed stun lets her solokill things asap with her level advantage.

Blink I find kind of underwhelming as a first item unless she's a support. It feels like I'm pretending to be centaur with a shittier cast animation and a squishier hero.

Either way euls+blink is the point she wants to hit asap. Aghs is good if she can snowball beyond that.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

January 16 2015 11:10 GMT

#2800

Juggernaut build is updated (see post above). Not convinced on that MoM/Max Crit build as it feels flavour of the month. I need to try it myself.