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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 130

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tehh4ck3r
Profile Joined August 2013
Magrathea7063 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-16 20:49:21
December 16 2014 20:48 GMT
#2581
I think you only need 1 level in X-Marks now since 1 point in it is enough to set up all your combos. (not sure how the range nerf will affect it though. I might be totally off base on this one.)

For Sniper, I would suggest changing the skill build to be E > W> E > Q > W> R > W > W> Q > Q > R > Q > E > E
(2 points in take aim at early levels; 1 point in headshot and shrapnel. then max heashot and shrapnel. take the last 2 levels in take aim at 13/14. Early levels in headshot give sniper a fair bit of damage. You only need 2 levels in take aim to out-range a tower which is usually all you need. I've tried the build a few times and I think it works.)

AdministratorIn those days, spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-16 20:49:34
December 16 2014 20:49 GMT
#2582
On December 17 2014 05:46 TheYango wrote:
I feel like all Icefrog did was make X slightly worse at ranks 2 and 3. Rank 1 still blows, and rank 2 and 3 still do what they did before cuz they're limited by range, while still just having shorter range than they did before.

Also, he fucked over anyone who just left X on 2 or 3 and never learned to combo with rank 4 X lol.


He made X rank 1 useless and X rank 2 useless and X rank 3 essentially like X rank 2

Basically at X rank 4, it lines up with his ult.

So now I don't how to prioritize it in lane or as mid.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-16 20:54:35
December 16 2014 20:51 GMT
#2583
On December 17 2014 05:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
Hell you may even be able to justify leaving it at level 1 if you can reliably get in 600 range. Which isn't that hard, its the same as ogres old stun for example. Game dependant etc.

I mean you'd always skill 4-1-1-1 if you were mid Disruptor (which no one ever does, but is actually pretty legit), because you'd get Glimpse ranks up in time for anything you'd need to do with it midgame anyway.

Glimpse was always kind of ass early game due to the need for damage, the thing is that a lot of the really retarded things Disruptor forces a team to do midgame require high ranks in Glimpse. Like how you can't have 4 people defend a tower vs a 5-man push with Disruptor and wait for a guy to TP after they engage because Disruptor's always gonna Glimpse the 5th man. You kind of need rank 3 Glimpse to be able to comfortably do that from wherever you are in an already-engaged fight. The change doesn't really do anything with that--it's just a minor CD change and a mana cost change which is nice but doesn't change why you leveled the skill.

On December 17 2014 05:48 tehh4ck3r wrote:
I think you only need 1 level in X-Marks now since 1 point in it is enough to set up all your combos. (not sure how the range nerf will affect it though. I might be totally off base on this one.)

For Sniper, I would suggest changing the skill build to be E > W> E > Q > W> R > W > W> Q > Q > R > Q > E > E
(2 points in take aim at early levels; 1 point in headshot and shrapnel. then max heashot and shrapnel. take the last 2 levels in take aim at 13/14. Early levels in headshot give sniper a fair bit of damage. You only need 2 levels in take aim to out-range a tower which is usually all you need. I've tried the build a few times and I think it works.)

Take Aim was always the better max than Headshot. "Just enough to outrange towers" isn't what you care about.

Also, Shrapnel is just awful to max now. It would be fine if the charge-based mechanic didn't neuter the effective CD of the spell as well (40s between Shrapnel charges, wtf).
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
December 16 2014 20:52 GMT
#2584
On December 17 2014 05:44 Sn0_Man wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2014 05:38 Torte de Lini wrote:
On December 17 2014 05:35 TheYango wrote:
Diffusal's situational on every pretty much Agi carry now since you can get it to counter Ghost Scepter without fucking up your lategame orb selection.

However, since you already don't list Ghost Scepter as situational for literally every support, by the same logic, you're not going to be listing Diffusal on everyone because of this. Therefore, your list of Diffusal users doesn't really change due to this change, because nobody who wasn't getting it before will make it a core item, and everyone else is just getting it to counter Ghost Scepter/purgeable buffs/summoned units.


I still think it is good for heroes like Ursa and it now doesn't impede on his lifesteal

well ursa's best lifesteal was vlads a decent portion of the time and those still worked together.

Really ursa doesn't need agi at all ever since he gets as much damage from strength due to his ult and the attackspeed is irrelevant when he's at cap. The purge sucks compared to just blink + clap since purge has worn off by the time u can run up to most heroes. Basically diffu is the same as it always was: there to purge off ghost sceptres and other jazz. Which isn't different, its just that more heroes can now situationally buy it. Its never worth mentioning in a guide imo.

Also u can't possibly leave x at level 1 its like 325 range now or some shit thats unuseable

And no u can't max q on qop the whole reason u max blink is the CD not the range. The range is just a nice buff.

I dunno what ur current Earthshaker build is but there's like no way u can't justify a point in enchant totem super early now at just 20 mana that skills nuts. Even as like position 6 support totem is still legit in lane at level 2 as a free extra auto.



Yeah, the agi is a waste, but the mana burn, purge and slow is so good though :x
I'll just leave it as is. I still think it works for TA though maybe.

Really on QOP? the cd isn't so bad now though and the extra Q is pretty good from before anyways.

Earthshaker is basically 1 at 4 and then last maxed
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
December 16 2014 20:53 GMT
#2585
On December 17 2014 05:48 tehh4ck3r wrote:
I think you only need 1 level in X-Marks now since 1 point in it is enough to set up all your combos. (not sure how the range nerf will affect it though. I might be totally off base on this one.)

For Sniper, I would suggest changing the skill build to be E > W> E > Q > W> R > W > W> Q > Q > R > Q > E > E
(2 points in take aim at early levels; 1 point in headshot and shrapnel. then max heashot and shrapnel. take the last 2 levels in take aim at 13/14. Early levels in headshot give sniper a fair bit of damage. You only need 2 levels in take aim to out-range a tower which is usually all you need. I've tried the build a few times and I think it works.)



I mean, the range is incredibly important. 1 level is so bad and 4 seconds makes all your combos miss if you don't learn to delay.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
December 16 2014 20:54 GMT
#2586
On December 17 2014 05:51 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2014 05:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
Hell you may even be able to justify leaving it at level 1 if you can reliably get in 600 range. Which isn't that hard, its the same as ogres old stun for example. Game dependant etc.

I mean you'd always skill 4-1-1-1 if you were mid Disruptor (which no one ever does, but is actually pretty legit), because you'd get Glimpse ranks up in time for anything you'd need to do with it midgame anyway.

Glimpse was always kind of ass early game due to the need for damage, the thing is that a lot of the really retarded things Disruptor forces a team to do midgame require high ranks in Glimpse. Like how you can't have 4 people defend a tower vs a 5-man push with Disruptor and wait for a guy to TP after they engage because Disruptor's always gonna Glimpse the 5th man. You kind of need rank 3 Glimpse to be able to comfortably do that from wherever you are in an already-engaged fight. The change doesn't really do anything with that--it's just a minor CD change and a mana cost change which is nice but doesn't change why you leveled the skill.


aka max Glimpse to 4 anyways?
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 16 2014 20:56 GMT
#2587
Rank 2 X is still fine as long as you know how to combo with the hero, because the difference between 550 and 650 isn't that large for a hero that gets Phase Boots+Lothar or Blink as his first items.
Moderator
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
December 16 2014 20:57 GMT
#2588
Personally I leveled the skill because 170 mana at level 1 for glimpse meant that i had to base or clarity every time i cast it -_-
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 16 2014 20:59 GMT
#2589
On December 17 2014 05:52 Torte de Lini wrote:
Yeah, the agi is a waste, but the mana burn, purge and slow is so good though :x
I'll just leave it as is. I still think it works for TA though maybe.

I mean as Sn0 said, most of the time you were still getting Vlad's on Ursa, which didn't fuck with Diffusal to begin with, and that didn't make it anything better than situational.

On December 17 2014 05:52 Torte de Lini wrote:
Really on QOP? the cd isn't so bad now though and the extra Q is pretty good from before anyways.

The CD's WORSE at lower ranks now, I don't know what you mean by "the cd isn't so bad now".
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
December 16 2014 21:02 GMT
#2590
On December 17 2014 05:59 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2014 05:52 Torte de Lini wrote:
Yeah, the agi is a waste, but the mana burn, purge and slow is so good though :x
I'll just leave it as is. I still think it works for TA though maybe.

I mean as Sn0 said, most of the time you were still getting Vlad's on Ursa, which didn't fuck with Diffusal to begin with, and that didn't make it anything better than situational.

Show nested quote +
On December 17 2014 05:52 Torte de Lini wrote:
Really on QOP? the cd isn't so bad now though and the extra Q is pretty good from before anyways.

The CD's WORSE at lower ranks now, I don't know what you mean by "the cd isn't so bad now".


Ah, I kept ursa with morbid mask lol
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
December 16 2014 21:43 GMT
#2591
gotta go to bed but ill take another look tomorrow morning
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
December 16 2014 22:33 GMT
#2592
Okay, I fixed Sniper (Middle), Queen of Pain, and Ursa has Morbid Mask early game and Vlad's after Blink + Phase (and before BKB).

I will do Kunkka tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-17 12:50:01
December 17 2014 12:49 GMT
#2593
Fixed Kunkka (1 point in X)
Maxed last
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
December 17 2014 13:22 GMT
#2594
wat level of x (read: range) do you need to guarantee a boat hit?
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 17 2014 13:32 GMT
#2595
You can do it at rank 2 if you know the delay/range really well (Ship has 1000 range with 425 radius and takes 3s to hit, so it can hit units that are 575 units in front of you, meaning if you walk back slightly after X-ing someone and hit them), but you have very little room for error. X-Ship at rank 3 works the same way it did before except, again, you need to know the delay now since X has a max duration of 4s at every rank.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-17 13:44:26
December 17 2014 13:43 GMT
#2596
On December 17 2014 22:22 ahswtini wrote:
wat level of x (read: range) do you need to guarantee a boat hit?


basically the scaling changed where you need level 4 X to match with an easy boat of 1,000 range (both are 1,000 range).

Basically level 2 X from patch 6.82 is basically Level 2-3 X for patch 6.83
_______________

The way I see it, take the value point of X and follow it up with Torrent. and you just need assistance to kill someone now during the early levels.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-17 13:46:52
December 17 2014 13:46 GMT
#2597
Rank 3 X-Ship still works the same as before, Torte. Ship has 3s delay, so there was actually a ton of room with X-Ship (Ship has 1k range but 425 radius, so it actually hits units 575 units in front of you). 50 extra range doesn't change the rank 3 X-Ship combo at all and makes rank 2 possible but impractical.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
December 17 2014 13:47 GMT
#2598
So for lane, we should keep it at 1

and the mid version can basically be 1 tide, 1 torrent, 3 X by 7?
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-17 13:52:12
December 17 2014 13:48 GMT
#2599
I mean, the last time we had this discussion, I made it pretty clear that I hate the 1-1-3 build for pubs to begin with because it relies on your team to provide damage when you don't have any ranks in Torrent or Tidebringer.

1-1-3 was taken from competitive play where I think it's strengths are easier to utilize and its weaknesses more manageable.

3 X by 11 for sure still, but at 7 either 1-4-1-1 or 2-4-0-1 based on preference.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
December 17 2014 13:50 GMT
#2600
JUST GIVE ME THE 50 MILLION GODDAMN IT, SO CLOSE

[image loading]
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
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