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 Timbersaw
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Added Blade Mail to Situational Items
Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items
Removed Power Treads
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
New Guide
Oracle (Lane)
Skill Build: Q W E E E R E Q Q Q R W W W (1. Purifying Flames 2. Fortune's End 3. Fate's Edict)
Starting Items: 3x Iron Branches, Tangos, Clarity, Healing Salve
Early Game: Boots of Speed, Magic Wand
Core Items: Arcane Boots, Urn of Shadows, Mekansm, Eul's Scepter of Divinity,
Situational Items: Bottle, Force Staff, Orchid of Malevolence, Dagon
Extension Items: Ethereal Blade, Shiva's Guard, Scythe of Vyse
New Guide
Oracle (Middle)
Skill Build: Q E E W E R E Q Q Q R W W W (1. Purifying Flames 2. Fortune's End 3. Fate's Edict)
Starting Items: Mantle of Intelligence, 2x Iron Branches, Tangos,
Early Game: Bottle, Boots of Speed
Core Items: Arcane Boots, Urn of Shadows, Mekansm, Eul's Scepter of Divinity,
Situational Items: Force Staff, Orchid of Malevolence, Dagon
Extension Items: Ethereal Blade, Shiva's Guard, Scythe of Vyse
+ Show Spoiler +
Notes:
- A lot of people enjoy Blink Dagger on Oracle, is it Situational?
- Urn of Shadows is nice, but maybe not necessary.
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Blink is situational on most of the cast. I don't see what makes Oracle so special.
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I tried Ancient Apparition(Lane).
Mek is a good item. Urn is a good item. Aghs is a good item on Ancient Apparition. But using Aghs well means I'm far from the fight when it starts, using Mek well means I'm close to the fight when it starts, and using Urn at all requires that I arrive at the fight before it ends. I opted for the pro-Aghs playstyle, but I think Boots of Travel would have been much better than Mek because I was never there to use Mek when I needed to be.
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SoCal8933 Posts
let that be a player decision. there are plenty of heroes that can be played as carries with different itemization..leave those as "situational".
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Al'right.
I put Urn of Shadows on both but it doesn't seem like anyone on any level is buying Urn of Shadows and just going straight Meka.
Similar with the Mid Guide, I think bottle is maybe useless. It delays a lot and doesn't serve any use during the laning phase + after 6, it's almost useless after you get urn, arcane anyways
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SoCal8933 Posts
On November 22 2014 00:01 Torte de Lini wrote:
Al'right.
I put Urn of Shadows on both but it doesn't seem like anyone on any level is buying Urn of Shadows and just going straight Meka.
Similar with the Mid Guide, I think bottle is maybe useless. It delays a lot and doesn't serve any use during the laning phase + after 6, it's almost useless after you get urn, arcane anyways
perhaps, make a note..if you want to go urn, skip bottle. if you want to go bottle, skip urn? bottle situational, maybe? or does that make the situational list too crowded.
will a value basi help mid lane until you make the transition to these items?
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On November 22 2014 00:27 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 00:01 Torte de Lini wrote:
Al'right.
I put Urn of Shadows on both but it doesn't seem like anyone on any level is buying Urn of Shadows and just going straight Meka.
Similar with the Mid Guide, I think bottle is maybe useless. It delays a lot and doesn't serve any use during the laning phase + after 6, it's almost useless after you get urn, arcane anyways perhaps, make a note..if you want to go urn, skip bottle. if you want to go bottle, skip urn? bottle situational, maybe? or does that make the situational list too crowded. will a value basi help mid lane until you make the transition to these items?
I talked to the guys in the Oracle strategy and they make it sound like you need both (though Mid oracle is so-so)
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On November 21 2014 21:25 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 14:21 Buckyman wrote:
I tried Ancient Apparition(Lane).
Mek is a good item. Urn is a good item. Aghs is a good item on Ancient Apparition. But using Aghs well means I'm far from the fight when it starts, using Mek well means I'm close to the fight when it starts, and using Urn at all requires that I arrive at the fight before it ends. I opted for the pro-Aghs playstyle, but I think Boots of Travel would have been much better than Mek because I was never there to use Mek when I needed to be. What are you trying to say?
The items from the guide have different positioning requirements in a teamfight. I found it impossible to satisfy them all.
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SoCal8933 Posts
On November 22 2014 01:15 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 00:27 BluemoonSC wrote:On November 22 2014 00:01 Torte de Lini wrote:
Al'right.
I put Urn of Shadows on both but it doesn't seem like anyone on any level is buying Urn of Shadows and just going straight Meka.
Similar with the Mid Guide, I think bottle is maybe useless. It delays a lot and doesn't serve any use during the laning phase + after 6, it's almost useless after you get urn, arcane anyways perhaps, make a note..if you want to go urn, skip bottle. if you want to go bottle, skip urn? bottle situational, maybe? or does that make the situational list too crowded. will a value basi help mid lane until you make the transition to these items? I talked to the guys in the Oracle strategy and they make it sound like you need both (though Mid oracle is so-so)
Yeah I read that too. I'm not the authority on oracle so I'm just tossing ideas your way.
His high int gain prolly necessitates both or else you won't be able to sustain.
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SoCal8933 Posts
On November 22 2014 01:19 Buckyman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 21:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On November 21 2014 14:21 Buckyman wrote:
I tried Ancient Apparition(Lane).
Mek is a good item. Urn is a good item. Aghs is a good item on Ancient Apparition. But using Aghs well means I'm far from the fight when it starts, using Mek well means I'm close to the fight when it starts, and using Urn at all requires that I arrive at the fight before it ends. I opted for the pro-Aghs playstyle, but I think Boots of Travel would have been much better than Mek because I was never there to use Mek when I needed to be. What are you trying to say? The items from the guide have different positioning requirements in a teamfight. I found it impossible to satisfy them all.
It sounds like you're trying to do everything with your hero but you can't do everything like you're pointing out. If you're going with the aghs, maybe letting someone else build mek us a better idea.
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On November 22 2014 01:19 Buckyman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 21:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On November 21 2014 14:21 Buckyman wrote:
I tried Ancient Apparition(Lane).
Mek is a good item. Urn is a good item. Aghs is a good item on Ancient Apparition. But using Aghs well means I'm far from the fight when it starts, using Mek well means I'm close to the fight when it starts, and using Urn at all requires that I arrive at the fight before it ends. I opted for the pro-Aghs playstyle, but I think Boots of Travel would have been much better than Mek because I was never there to use Mek when I needed to be. What are you trying to say? The items from the guide have different positioning requirements in a teamfight. I found it impossible to satisfy them all.
They are two completely separate builds though, no? It's a dual-core.
On November 22 2014 01:26 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 01:15 Torte de Lini wrote:On November 22 2014 00:27 BluemoonSC wrote:On November 22 2014 00:01 Torte de Lini wrote:
Al'right.
I put Urn of Shadows on both but it doesn't seem like anyone on any level is buying Urn of Shadows and just going straight Meka.
Similar with the Mid Guide, I think bottle is maybe useless. It delays a lot and doesn't serve any use during the laning phase + after 6, it's almost useless after you get urn, arcane anyways perhaps, make a note..if you want to go urn, skip bottle. if you want to go bottle, skip urn? bottle situational, maybe? or does that make the situational list too crowded. will a value basi help mid lane until you make the transition to these items? I talked to the guys in the Oracle strategy and they make it sound like you need both (though Mid oracle is so-so) Yeah I read that too. I'm not the authority on oracle so I'm just tossing ideas your way. His high int gain prolly necessitates both or else you won't be able to sustain.
I'm no expert either, just spending massive amount of hours watching matches ):
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
mek is core on few heroes, and AA is not one of them. AA is pretty much always going to be played position 4 or 5, he's going to be very poor. mek is situational on him.
edit: explained above
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
here's my take on urn:
in most games, supports buy the urn. they wont get it super quickly, often it'll be their second item after their arcanes. but thats ok, because they're going to have the urn by the time laning breaks down and teamfights start happening. the urn at that point is used to heal up after a teamfight so that the team can push off of that teamfight. how many times have you won a fight, only to be unable to push because your core is too low?
there are exceptions though, like mid night stalker and pudge who i would consider urn to be core on. why? because they're going to be ganking and killing very early. the urn gives them extra damage, and also lets them heal up after a gank. they're strength heroes, they generally have a good hp pool but a poor mana pool, so often they can bottle themselves only to half HP.
thats just the way i see urn, i welcome people to correct me or add to it
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I could remove Mekansm from AA, though I don't like to assume what role (3-4-5) the player will play and more be sure he buys what the team needs. It's a tough predicament to decide on.
On November 22 2014 01:41 ahswtini wrote:
here's my take on urn:
in most games, supports buy the urn. they wont get it super quickly, often it'll be their second item after their arcanes. but thats ok, because they're going to have the urn by the time laning breaks down and teamfights start happening. the urn at that point is used to heal up after a teamfight so that the team can push off of that teamfight. how many times have you won a fight, only to be unable to push because your core is too low?
there are exceptions though, like mid night stalker and pudge who i would consider urn to be core on. why? because they're going to be ganking and killing very early. the urn gives them extra damage, and also lets them heal up after a gank. they're strength heroes, they generally have a good hp pool but a poor mana pool, so often they can bottle themselves only to half HP.
thats just the way i see urn, i welcome people to correct me or add to it
Ah, yes; I kept seeing Urn as a ganking item and a pinch-health item for heroes that desperate need it (or who strive on it) + the small mana regeneration.
It's hard to deny how good Urn is on Oracle however, in conjunction with all his abilities and shit health
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
make mekansm a situational item. i wouldnt consider mek core on even a core AA
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On November 22 2014 01:52 ahswtini wrote:
make mekansm a situational item. i wouldnt consider mek core on even a core AA
Putting Mekansm on Situational for AA may disrupt the Dual-core understanding as some would get Mekansm though they were intending to build Core Aghs. If that's not a problem, then I'll put it in, otherwise I'll just remove it (which would make both cores - three items :DDDD)
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SoCal8933 Posts
i think i remember you saying that you tend to assume people do not get read the notes..but if you put it in situational, it might be helpful to write "skip if going aghs"
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EPT
