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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 120

Forum Index > The Tavern
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Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-20 21:25:53
November 20 2014 21:25 GMT
#2381
@torte: Essentially, no

The reasoning is comparable to bane although I understand that bane has longer CD's.

It's hard for me to be definitive here because I've never played the hero.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-20 21:37:03
November 20 2014 21:33 GMT
#2382
Soul Ring doesn't fit the pattern of how the hero plays.

Soul Ring is essentially a long-term sustain item. Additionally, it has to immediately be activated with the spell you're using mana on, so it's more for heroes that want to use whatever spell they've got more or less every time it's on CD like DS Ion Shell or Broodmother Spawn Spiderlings. As a pure mana source for making sure you've got mana in fights, it's inferior to Arcane Boots not because Arcane Boots gives you mana over time, but because Arcane Boots gives you a ton of +max mana.

The thing is, spamming Oracle's spells by themselves doesn't actually do anything. Purifying Flames does basically nothing if it's not being combo'ed for a specific purpose, so you're not spamming spells on every wave. Your lane harass comes largely from abusing your good animation and bullshit autoattack range for autoattack damage, then trying to push the EEQE combo when they're in burst range. You're not going to throw a single EQ combo at them every wave just for the hell of it and itemizing to do that is silly. Additionally, Oracle's spells aren't really farming spells either, so unlike the aforementioned 2 Soul Ring user examples, you can't use Soul Ring mana to farm when there isn't an immediate lane opponent for you to use them on.

Basically the only time you'll spend mana is if you're killing someone or saving someone, i.e. actually fighting. Between fights you have time to get runes and send Clarities. Your spell usage pattern simply doesn't fit a Soul Ring user.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
November 20 2014 21:33 GMT
#2383
Yeah, I'll just remove it.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-20 22:59:02
November 20 2014 21:40 GMT
#2384
Timbersaw
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Added Blade Mail to Situational Items
Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items
Removed Power Treads
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items

Draft Guide
Oracle (Lane)

Skill Build: Q W E E E R E Q Q Q R W W W (1. Purifying Flames 2. Fortune's End 3. Fate's Edict)
Starting Items: 3x Iron Branches, Tangos, Clarity, Healing Salve
Early Game: Boots of Speed, Magic Wand
Core Items: Arcane Boots, Urn of Shadows, Mekansm, Eul's Scepter of Divinity,
Situational Items: Bottle, Force Staff, Orchid of Malevolence, Dagon
Extension Items: Ethereal Blade, Shiva's Guard, Scythe of Vyse

Draft Guide
Oracle (Middle)

Skill Build: Q E E Q E R E W Q Q R W W W (1. Purifying Flames 2. Fortune's End 3. Fate's Edict)
Starting Items: 3x Iron Branches, Tangos,
Early Game: Bottle, Boots of Speed, Magic Wand
Core Items: Arcane Boots, Urn of Shadows, Mekansm, Eul's Scepter of Divinity,
Situational Items: Force Staff, Orchid of Malevolence, Dagon
Extension Items: Ethereal Blade, Shiva's Guard, Scythe of Vyse

Notes:
  • Use Purifying Flames after Fate's Edict on allies to create a nice heal (damage is magic resistance blocked).
  • Fate's Edict to block lane from farming and to harass foes with the amplified damage
  • Combination is E (dmg) -> Q (dispels the heal effect) -> E (dmg)
  • W (dispel dmg) -> E (heal ally)
  • Fate's Edict does not block stuns or effects, it just nullifies the damage (so you can be targeted, but not damaged - wasting enemies' spells).
  • Orchid Malevolence completely disables foes with Fate's Edict
  • Use False Promise before Purifying Flames on allies to double the healing effect.
  • Avoid Fate's Edict on enemies if your team has a nuke ultimate.
  • Avoid Fate's Edict on allied physical carries before a fight.
  • Eul's Scepter works great to delay foes until Fortune's End has been channeled
  • Use Fortune's End to initiate an early first-blood



+ Show Spoiler +
As a reminder, these heroes still need ratings and feedback, I unfortunately need to be more of a pest about it because they are difficult to attract attention:

Kunkka (Middle) Build
Weaver (Lane) Build
Dragon Knight (Middle) Build
Skywrath Mage (Lane) Build
Tusk (Middle) Build
Naga Siren (Middle) Build
Elder Titan (Lane) Build
Ursa (Lane) Build
Nyx Assassin (Lane) Build
Axe (Jungle) Build
Ember Spirit (Middle) Build
Lifestealer (Lane) Build
Shadow Shaman (Middle) Build
Earth Spirit (Middle) Build
Troll Warlord (Middle) Build desperately needs ratings to be in the database
Silencer (Middle)
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-20 21:48:05
November 20 2014 21:43 GMT
#2385
Also, I think the mid guide should be 2-0-3 at level 5, rather than 1-1-3, because maximizing your combo damage to get a solo kill is more likely to get returns than a "just in case" Fate's Edict to save yourself. 50 mana to fuck up their lasthitting which you suggested a few pages ago is stupid when the cost is 75 damage off your level 5 combo damage.

This is especially true because most people are used to mid laners who have highest relative solo-kill potential at 6, whereas Oracle actually gains no damage from hitting level 6 and has his highest relative kill potential at 5. You're going to get a lot of players who don't play scared enough because its a level 5 mid hero and totally underestimate your burst damage.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-20 21:47:32
November 20 2014 21:46 GMT
#2386
On November 21 2014 06:43 TheYango wrote:
Also, I think the mid guide should be 2-0-3 at level 5, rather than 1-1-3, because maximizing your combo damage to get a solo kill is more likely to get returns than a "just in case" Fate's Edict to save yourself. 50 mana to fuck up their lasthitting which you suggested a few pages ago is stupid when the cost is 75 damage off your level 5 combo damage.

This is especially true because most people are used to mid laners who have highest relative solo-kill potential at 6, whereas Oracle actually gains no damage from hitting level 6 and has his highest relative kill potential at 5. You're going to get a lot of players who don't play scared enough because its a level 5 mid hero and totally underestimate your burst damage.


edit: im dumb
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
November 20 2014 21:46 GMT
#2387
On November 21 2014 06:46 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2014 06:43 TheYango wrote:
Also, I think the mid guide should be 2-0-3 at level 5, rather than 1-1-3, because maximizing your combo damage to get a solo kill is more likely to get returns than a "just in case" Fate's Edict to save yourself. 50 mana to fuck up their lasthitting which you suggested a few pages ago is stupid when the cost is 75 damage off your level 5 combo damage.

This is especially true because most people are used to mid laners who have highest relative solo-kill potential at 6, whereas Oracle actually gains no damage from hitting level 6 and has his highest relative kill potential at 5. You're going to get a lot of players who don't play scared enough because its a level 5 mid hero and totally underestimate your burst damage.


Fate's Edict is to deny mid creeps, it's even in the notes.

diiiiid u read his post?
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
November 20 2014 21:47 GMT
#2388
On November 21 2014 06:46 Sn0_Man wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2014 06:46 Torte de Lini wrote:
On November 21 2014 06:43 TheYango wrote:
Also, I think the mid guide should be 2-0-3 at level 5, rather than 1-1-3, because maximizing your combo damage to get a solo kill is more likely to get returns than a "just in case" Fate's Edict to save yourself. 50 mana to fuck up their lasthitting which you suggested a few pages ago is stupid when the cost is 75 damage off your level 5 combo damage.

This is especially true because most people are used to mid laners who have highest relative solo-kill potential at 6, whereas Oracle actually gains no damage from hitting level 6 and has his highest relative kill potential at 5. You're going to get a lot of players who don't play scared enough because its a level 5 mid hero and totally underestimate your burst damage.


Fate's Edict is to deny mid creeps, it's even in the notes.

diiiiid u read his post?


Ah, I read it now. Sorry. I look dumb lol
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 20 2014 21:48 GMT
#2389
I mean, you can waste 50 mana to stop a lasthit, or you can kill them at level 3 because people who've never played against the hero don't expect a 500-damage combo at level 3.
Moderator
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
November 20 2014 21:49 GMT
#2390
Lion's third ability has a grammatical mistake; it says "The range is quite well" but should be "The range is quite good".
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
November 20 2014 21:49 GMT
#2391
On November 21 2014 06:48 TheYango wrote:
I mean, you can waste 50 mana to stop a lasthit, or you can kill them at level 3 because people who've never played against the hero don't expect a 500-damage combo at level 3.


But it's 50 mana to stop lasthit + harassment amplification (damage amplified)
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 20 2014 21:53 GMT
#2392
Why the fuck would they stand there to get right-clicked if they're disarmed? Why would you not just kill them when the only reason to put the hero mid is because he has comparable burst to Zeus or Tiny Ava+Toss?
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
November 20 2014 21:57 GMT
#2393
On November 21 2014 06:53 TheYango wrote:
Why the fuck would they stand there to get right-clicked if they're disarmed? Why would you not just kill them when the only reason to put the hero mid is because he has comparable burst to Zeus or Tiny Ava+Toss?


Now that I think about it, Fate's Edict doesn't serve any worthwhile purpose during the early game right after 6.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-20 22:03:13
November 20 2014 22:00 GMT
#2394
It's primarily a defensive spell early game to combo with Purifying Flames to prevent the magic damage and allow Purifying Flames to act as an ally heal. The thing is, if you're mid, there's no one else to save and if you get ganked, it probably won't save you unless the enemy heroes ganking you horribly mismanage their spells. Plus you get 6 fast enough off mid that your defensive fallback is going to be your ult because it has a 20s CD.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
November 20 2014 22:04 GMT
#2395
On November 21 2014 06:49 Birdie wrote:
Lion's third ability has a grammatical mistake; it says "The range is quite well" but should be "The range is quite good".


fixed in a sec!
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-20 23:02:27
November 20 2014 22:59 GMT
#2396
On November 21 2014 07:00 TheYango wrote:
It's primarily a defensive spell early game to combo with Purifying Flames to prevent the magic damage and allow Purifying Flames to act as an ally heal. The thing is, if you're mid, there's no one else to save and if you get ganked, it probably won't save you unless the enemy heroes ganking you horribly mismanage their spells. Plus you get 6 fast enough off mid that your defensive fallback is going to be your ult because it has a 20s CD.


Skill Build: Q E E Q E R E W Q Q R W W W (1. Purifying Flames 2. Fortune's End 3. Fate's Edict)

Also: EEQE combo? You mean: EQE right?
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
November 20 2014 23:08 GMT
#2397
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=344512092 -- MIDDLE
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=344511398 -- LANE
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
November 20 2014 23:12 GMT
#2398
On November 21 2014 07:59 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2014 07:00 TheYango wrote:
It's primarily a defensive spell early game to combo with Purifying Flames to prevent the magic damage and allow Purifying Flames to act as an ally heal. The thing is, if you're mid, there's no one else to save and if you get ganked, it probably won't save you unless the enemy heroes ganking you horribly mismanage their spells. Plus you get 6 fast enough off mid that your defensive fallback is going to be your ult because it has a 20s CD.


Skill Build: Q E E Q E R E W Q Q R W W W (1. Purifying Flames 2. Fortune's End 3. Fate's Edict)

Also: EEQE combo? You mean: EQE right?

Technically EEQE is the most damage if you can ensure 6 seconds to cast everything since the damage from E heavily outscales the heal for the first 3 seconds

you'd get 3 E nukes minus 3 seconds of E heal basically

But often ur stuck just E-Q-E in order to actually get off ur spells without just healing the enemy
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
November 20 2014 23:14 GMT
#2399
On November 21 2014 08:12 Sn0_Man wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2014 07:59 Torte de Lini wrote:
On November 21 2014 07:00 TheYango wrote:
It's primarily a defensive spell early game to combo with Purifying Flames to prevent the magic damage and allow Purifying Flames to act as an ally heal. The thing is, if you're mid, there's no one else to save and if you get ganked, it probably won't save you unless the enemy heroes ganking you horribly mismanage their spells. Plus you get 6 fast enough off mid that your defensive fallback is going to be your ult because it has a 20s CD.


Skill Build: Q E E Q E R E W Q Q R W W W (1. Purifying Flames 2. Fortune's End 3. Fate's Edict)

Also: EEQE combo? You mean: EQE right?

Technically EEQE is the most damage if you can ensure 6 seconds to cast everything since the damage from E heavily outscales the heal for the first 3 seconds

you'd get 3 E nukes minus 3 seconds of E heal basically

But often ur stuck just E-Q-E in order to actually get off ur spells without just healing the enemy


Guess it depends on the line-up

BE SURE TO RATE THE GUIDES UP!

Also bottle on Mid hero seems a bit over-the-top in terms of mana regeneration lol
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-20 23:49:16
November 20 2014 23:35 GMT
#2400
UPDATED COMPLETELY
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
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