Judging by his post history, he loves Samsung stuff. The monitor he listed is fine, its actually really good for a TN monitor: for one, it can actually reach the advertised 1000:1 contrast. Of course good TN monitors like those are expensive so I'm not too sure I'd pick it over something like the VS299H, which is IPS and cheaper.
For gaming, though, IPS monitors aren't very good unless you enter Dell UltraSharp range. Anything below that is just not worth it and you might as well get a TN panel which will give lower input lag and better response times.
That's 100% wrong. Entirely wrong.
Most IPS monitors - I can think of exactly two that have zero overdrive - have overdrive enabled these days so most can be used for gaming if you really wanted to. As far as overdrive goes, Asus IPS monitors are the best on the market because you can control the overdrive. If Dell has this function, you'd probably be right but they've all got reverse ghosting unfortunately. Secondly, most IPS monitors, those without scalers or hardware colour calibration shit, have exceptionally low input lag and easily match the input lag of many TN monitors on the market.
Response times of IPS monitors is generally more than fine for gaming and total latency is as low as many 5ms TN monitors. Most people, who aren't used to CRTs, can manage. As far as input lag goes, the current batch of eIPS monitors can have outrageously low input lag. The Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM has 0.6-1.1ms of input lag depending on who you ask. Simon from TFT Central got 0.6ms average while Prad.de got 1.1ms. This is better than any single gaming monitor on the market. The Asus VS299H has a similarly low input lag of only 0.9ms, according to Prad.de.
Input lag is a fuzzy area anyway - something I've detailed in the OP. After all, most console gamers play fine on their HDTVs despite the fact the majority of them have massive input lag. Seriously speaking, those that notice input lag the quickest and get frustrated at it are those who have used CRTs for their whole lives...they're also the same guys who cannot stand the sample-and-hold motion performance all LCDs do and refuse to use anything but the Sony FW900.
The bigger question is not response times or latency but the antiglare coating. Go to a store and fine a matte IPS monitor. Doesn't matter which one. If you can't stand the antiglare coating on that, you'll hate any non-glossy IPS monitor full stop. If you don't notice/mind it, the Asus VS299H should be a decent option despite being on the small side.
On February 18 2012 16:11 affinity_12 wrote: Sorry I was thinking of another Asus monitor.
For gaming, though, IPS monitors aren't very good unless you enter Dell UltraSharp range. Anything below that is just not worth it and you might as well get a TN panel which will give lower input lag and better response times.
I've heard response time is irrelevant as all monitors these days have at most 5ms? (as i said earlier, monitors are a shady area for me).
Correct. Manufacturer given values are useless. They give you an idea of the possible performance but you have no idea whether or not the overdrive is insufficient, too strong, or just right unless someone purposely tests it out. An 8ms MVA monitor vs an 8ms IPS monitor is an entirely different experience since the IPS monitor will be usable for gaming while the MVA monitor will be a blurry mess the minute you do high contrast transitions.
On February 18 2012 16:33 Womwomwom wrote: Go to a store and fine a matte IPS monitor. Doesn't matter which one. If you can't stand the antiglare coating on that, you'll hate any non-glossy IPS monitor full stop. If you don't notice/mind it, the Asus VS299H should be a decent option despite being on the small size.
I live in the UK which, unfortunately, has god awful retail stores. Only ones are pcworld and Currys (which is actually owned by pcworld anyways.) Trying to think of any others and just coming up with a blank.
Also, that was just a part of my argument. If you compare cheap IPS panels with cheap TN panels, the TN panels win in terms of input lag and response times. To get the full advantage of an IPS panel (visual quality and input lag), then you have to enter Dell UltraSharp range. Only a person who has no knowledge about monitors would recommend a cheap IPS panel over a cheap TN panel for gaming, especially. 120Hz TN panels no doubt win over cheap IPS panels. That's assuming that the person's computer specs can take full advantage of the 120Hz. If not, they might as well invest in a good IPS monitor such as the Dell U2711.
Meh. I still prefer Samsung and Dell over Benq, LG or ASUS. My experience with Benq is that their quality is the worst in the computer monitor industry. I generally don't read too much into specs because most of them are manufacturer's specs anyway. Nearly all my friends have Samsungs and they never complained about backlight bleeding and dead pixels, whereas I couldn't even replace my two Benqs because the dead pixels "weren't at the center of the screen".
Either you don't know anything about monitors or you're being willfully obtuse.
The NEC monitor you posted is a professional monitor. It has an extensive scaler, 12 bit look up tables, and OSD options professionals absolutely must have. Its not designed for consumers and consumers wouldn't even know about it. It is entirely designed for professional workers who deal extensively with work that requires with colour accuracy. It supports DDC/CI which makes calibration with the NEC SpectraView piss easy. When it was new, it was around 800 pounds, which equates to $1200 USD for a 24" monitor. Let's actually compare monitors that are actually in the same market and price bracket please.
Its refresh, the LCD2490wuxi2, is still $650-1000 USD despite being three years old and being a 24" monitor. None of the users reviewing it on Amazon are really using it for gaming so they don't give a shit about input lag. Most care about colour quality and easy of calibration.
So no shit its going to have high input lag because its packing literally every feature in the book; features that simply do not exist on cheaper monitors. The funny thing is that the NEC LCD2490wuxi's motion performance is actually very, very good and better than any current Dell Ultrasharp so if you don't mind 30ms of input lag, its one of the best monitors in existence thanks to the A-TW polarizer. For a lot of people, that monitor is gold in monitor form.
It seems you missed this. I'll bold it for you:
Secondly, most IPS monitors, those without scalers or hardware colour calibration shit, have exceptionally low input lag and easily match the input lag of many TN monitors on the market.
And even if I didn't say that, you are still 100% incorrect. Perhaps you missed the Prad.de review Myrmidon posted in regards to the ASUS VS229H but its latency is extremely low. LG IPS monitors also tend to have low latency. Why? Because, just like their TN monitor friends, they have nothing inside them and are designed for the mass consumer who might play computer games on them.
Dell Ultrasharps are good for warranty and ergonomic features. Besides that, they are no better than their eIPS friends. They suffer from reverse ghosting and this is something no Asus monitor will suffer from due to adjustable overdrive. Do you wish to keep ignoring the Trace Free feature like you are currently doing? Or ignore every single review where the Dell U2312HM Ultrasharp either has a history of having weaker contrast, white luminescence, and black depth than many of the other eIPS monitors on the market.
Ultrasharps are not magic bullet IPS monitors that are better than the competition; anyone who knows anything knows that the U2410 is trash outside of wide gamut, the U2312HM regressed compared to the U2311H, and the U2711 has some serious problems outside of fantastic hardware options. Whether or not you care is different but it doesn't mean these problems don't suddenly vanish. My OP still recommends Ultrasharps because they're still affordable monitors with decent enough performance, great post-service support, fast delivery, and the spring loaded stand is rock solid.
Hey guys, I'm wondering if you guys could help. One of my 22" LCD monitors (HP w2228h) is emitting a high pitched noise when its turned off/standby. The noise goes away when its running and there's input its just annoying as hell when you're trying to relax at 12am and all you hear is that high pitched noise.
I assume its the power supply doing it (its 3/4 years old?) but I'm wondering if you guys know a fix other than ripping the power cord out of the unit top shut it up.
But I do not know the first thing about what I should be looking for in a monitor to play that, or a decent price range. Am I looking at $200-$300?
I found these two monitors on sale (I have a $50 gift card at best buy- I'll buy from somewhere else if there are good suggestions)... would these even be compatible? (for the 21.5", I'm not sure how a dual DVD-I w/ HDCP would work)
Thank you for the fast response time. That monitor is really nice, and for a pretty good price too. I'm going to go with that, makes more sense with everything else I've decided on so far
The recent additions make me absolutely unsure of what to aim for now XD.
With all this back-and-forth about the monitor range stated in the OP, I may just bite the bullet and drop the cash on a Foris FS2332, though I'm not sure that the extra performance would truly be worth an extra couple hundred.
Likely not worth the $600 you need to throw down for one. As I said in the OP, the Ultrasharps are fine in practice. Its just the guy was claiming them to be significantly better than other IPS monitors for gaming (they're not). The reverse ghosting is quite minor so its not really a problem however there are models out there (Asus models, which he thinks are trash for some reason) that do not have any problems.
You can probably get the a Dell Ultrasharp and be very happy with it for so much less cash. As I say in the OP, find a matte IPS monitor and see if you like it or not. Heck even if you buy blind you can probably just tell Dell that you don't like it and return it for a refund. The fact is that people don't seem to understand, or be able to tell, what ghosting actually is. The monitors he recommended (Samsung 350 series, Ultrasharps) all have reverse ghosting, which is more noticeable than normal ghosting because its a huge dark trail, yet he can't tell a thing.
As I said posts ago, Samsung is fine. Its just that they're not Korean superhumans capable of awesome designs the proletariat Taiwanese cannot do. The 700D and 750D are good monitors however I only recommend the 23" versions of those monitors because the pixel pitch for a 1080P 27" monitor sucks balls and TN already has bad enough vertical viewing angles.
I recommend buying a display or two from Best Buy. If I remember correctly, they have a pretty good return policy so if you don't like it, you can just return it for a refund. I'm not American so I'm not sure but I remember a few people doing that with new monitors to check out the performance of them.
It would be awesome if Best Buy actually had a decent selection of monitors. Can't say I've really taken a good look in a month or so (I try to avoid the place - the local store's GM isn't too fond of me) so I may drop in and see what they have nowadays.
Finally found some nice pictures of the 700D, and the glossy surface seems like it could be a bit too much for me.
On February 18 2012 16:33 Womwomwom wrote: An 8ms MVA monitor vs an 8ms IPS monitor is an entirely different experience since the IPS monitor will be usable for gaming while the MVA monitor will be a blurry mess the minute you do high contrast transitions.
The LG L2000C exists in an IPS- and a MVA-version. How could I find out the quickest, whether it's IPS or MVA?
On February 18 2012 16:33 Womwomwom wrote: An 8ms MVA monitor vs an 8ms IPS monitor is an entirely different experience since the IPS monitor will be usable for gaming while the MVA monitor will be a blurry mess the minute you do high contrast transitions.
The LG L2000C exists in an IPS- and a MVA-version. How could I find out the quickest, whether it's IPS or MVA?
Look at contrast. IPS will have 1000:1. VA will have 3000:1 to 5000:1. That's the easiest way to tell what panel the monitor uses.
How to tell panel technology if not specified?
Generally not a difficult task: - VA monitors will have a contrast ratio of 3000:1 to 5000:1. IPS and TN will have a contrast of only 1000:1. Ignore any numbers like 150000:1. - TN monitors will specify something lower than 178°(H) / 178°(V) for viewing angles. IPS and VA will claim to have 178°(H) / 178°(V) for their viewing angle spec. - IPS monitors will generally brag about the panel they're using. Like outright say "I'm IPS and I have accurate colours" in the product overview.
On February 18 2012 03:45 Mackem wrote: I am looking for a decent TN panel to buy. I'm looking at 22-24" and the monitor needs to have at least 1 DVI, 1 HDMI and 1 VGA port. Something relatively thin would be great as long as it's good for gaming. Got roughly a £175 budget and will be looking to get dual monitors in the future.
If you want a cheapass gaming monitor, the Asus VH236H works. There isn't too much to think about it unless you really want to throw down cash for a monitor ($200+ for instance).
Is there any reason NOT to have a glossy monitor, like say S23A700D, as far as finish is concerned? OP is not so direct on this. Is glossy better if you have full control of light?
If the ambient light in your room is not strong/you can control the lighting, then glossy is the way to go. Antiglare coatings diffuse ambient as well as light emitted from the backlight itself so it'll give the image of worse contrast, colour quality, and even sharpness if its particularly coarse.
All you have to do is go into a store and compare an Apple Cinema Display/iMac to the available eIPS monitors on display. Same technology, much different image.
Edit: I just don't want to get into the glossy vs matte debate, which is kind of why I've just said "take a look and get what you want". Its gets dumbass posters who constantly say "antiglare coatings are stupid, get your eyes checked out" and the "Apple are the only major company to use glossy IPS panels ergo glossy monitors are for stupid people and non-techies" over and over.
EPT
