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5930 Posts
Eizo got their PLS technology from Samsung.
I KNOW THAT. The difference is that Eizo PLS monitors aren't littered with shitty quality control issues; Samsung monitors are.
Regardless of the exchange rate, that is the reason why Sony TVs don't sell as well as Samsung's despite the fact they make a really mean TV. Heck, Visio has the largest TV market share in the USA (2009 at least, I'm sure its still the case) and that's because their appearance is fairly nice and is cheap as hell.
Consumers generally don't pay extra for 120hz or IPS or whatever. They want the cheapest hardware that looks nice. Samsung does this better than anyone else on the market. They make the best 120hz display (overdrive is best, glossy coating, cheap) but the point is that their hardware design is no better than other typical OEMs like Asus and BenQ.
I won't even make a serious comment about the Galaxy S2 being better than the iPhone 4/4s in terms of build quality. You are out of your mind if you think Apple doesn't have the highest build quality in the market right now. Impractical design yes, lower build quality no.
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On February 18 2012 12:27 Womwomwom wrote:I KNOW THAT. The difference is that Eizo PLS monitors aren't littered with shitty quality control issues; Samsung monitors are.Regardless of the exchange rate, that is the reason why Sony TVs don't sell as well as Samsung's despite the fact they make a really mean TV. Heck, Visio has the largest TV market share in the USA (2009 at least, I'm sure its still the case) and that's because their appearance is fairly nice and is cheap as hell.
Where's the evidence of Samsung's controls being "shitty"? I would like a quotation. No need to bold and underline, my ability to read is fine.
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It's pretty obvious why Samsung dominates the LCD market lol. Samsung makes TVs. ASUS does not and BenQ TVs are like non-existent. Samsung is a household name, what the hell is ASUS (the majority of people don't even pronounce their name properly) and BenQ? Samsung has a massive showcase in like every store whereas you'd be lucky to even spot an ASUS or BenQ.
Galaxy S2 (I have one as well) is not miles better than an iPhone or any phone in terms of design and quality. It suffers from random reboots and the back gets extremely hot during intensive tasks. It's a great phone but don't kid yourself about it being miles better than every other phone.
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5930 Posts
Examples of PLS backlight bleeding in 850D series of monitors. If you want more, I can get at least 5 more examples:
+ Show Spoiler +
These monitors also have less-than-rare reports of trapped dust between the protective coating and the polarizer.
Details of common Altera processing chip issue in the 305T (bad ass S-PVA monitor) because of poor design. Google if you want to know more about it. A side note but its really worth opening the monitor up and fixing because its still a really damn good monitor.
Possible reason for backlight bleeding in 950D 120hz series of monitors. Google if you want more examples. Since the backlight bleeding is commonly found in the exact same bottom right hand corner, it can't be anything else but the design putting strain on the panel.
PC Monitors says:
Under usable settings on an LCD monitor there is always some degree of ‘backlight bleed’ (if there wasn’t then contrast ratios would always be practically infinite). Areas of excess backlight bleed are also common, particularly in the peripheral sections of the monitor, due to imperfections and stresses during and post manufacture. On our S27A950D there was moderate excess backlight bleed-through which was particularly evident in the bottom right corner in the form of white clouding extending around 4 inches up the screen – this remained visible when displaying blacks in a reasonably well lit room. There was also a blue strip at the bottom edge which was most severe towards the right size which was generally only visible when displaying ‘pure black’ in a darkened room. Some less pronounced bleed was also apparent at the bottom left and some hints in the top two corners as well but this was relatively subtle and only visible when displaying black in a dark room. This was similar to what was observed on the T27A950D (but not S27A750D) and appears to be caused by the stress placed on the screen by the tight ‘bolted’ fastening at the stand neck. The SA750 series in contrast has more of a ‘floating’ design with an attachment at the back of the monitor.
Consumer awareness blog discussing Samsung capacitor issue.
These are some of the main ones I am talking about. Nevermind the Samsung hardware design can be even less practical than Apple's since you can't even VESA mount some of them: the 120hz monitors tend to have the ports in the base and offer zero height adjust.
I don't have a problem with you, or anyone else, buying Samsung hardware because its priced aggressively and performs very well (I recommend the 700D/750D all the time because they're not ungodly expensive, perform extremely well, and look fantastic in general) but to think they're on a higher tier than BenQ, LG, Dell, HP, and Asus due to raw marketshare is just silly.
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Can anyone recommend a monitor that is:
1920x1080 resolution
Between 20-23 "
Lowish input lag?
That is not utterly shit (quality of image? Pixel fidelity? I'm EXTREMELY inexperienced in this area)
Under £150
Available for non ridiculous postage prices in the UK. (i.e. amazon.co.uk / ebuyer.com / scan.co.uk?)
Thanks, hopefully all that is even possible for my budget, can go higher but really would not like to.
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The Samsung has lower input lag and the AOC is more prone to ghosting. Any IPS monitor below the $200 range is prone to ghosting from my experience.
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On February 18 2012 15:21 affinity_12 wrote:The Samsung has lower input lag and the AOC is more prone to ghosting. Any IPS monitor below the $200 range is prone to ghosting from my experience.
And the Samsung isn't an IPS?
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All these LCDs have ghosting, even TN panels. Whether or not it's bothersome will depend on the viewer and what's being shown, so it's hard to really state some kind of cutoff point.
I think many of the IPS monitors under $200 may not have properly-done overdrive or just may be slow, so yeah I guess it might be worse than say most of the Ultrasharp or Asus models. There's an Asus VS229H-P around $160, which does have the typical 0 / 20 / 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 "Trace Free" controls for overdrive aggressiveness though. I think the only difference with the VS229H is having the overdrive controls. The base VS229H (no overdrive) is reviewed on prad.de:
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2012/review-asus-vs229h.html
14.8 ms fastest G2G without overdrive, so probably easily in the range of typical decent IPS with overdrive. By comparison, LG IPS235V they measure at 20.5 ms, even though LG lists 5 ms (lol). Input latency is 0.9 ms and calibrated contrast ratio they measure at 1242:1, but that's not the whole story.
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On February 18 2012 15:34 Myrmidon wrote:All these LCDs have ghosting, even TN panels. Whether or not it's bothersome will depend on the viewer and what's being shown, so it's hard to really state some kind of cutoff point. I think many of the IPS monitors under $200 may not have properly-done overdrive or just may be slow, so yeah I guess it might be worse than say most of the Ultrasharp or Asus models. There's an Asus VS229H-P around $160, which does have the typical 0 / 20 / 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 "Trace Free" controls for overdrive aggressiveness though. I think the only difference with the VS229H is having the overdrive controls. The base VS229H (no overdrive) is reviewed on prad.de: http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2012/review-asus-vs229h.html14.8 ms fastest G2G without overdrive, so probably easily in the range of typical decent IPS with overdrive. By comparison, LG IPS235V they measure at 20.5 ms, even though LG lists 5 ms (lol). Input latency is 0.9 ms and calibrated contrast ratio they measure at 1242:1, but that's not the whole story.
What does this all mean? in noob language please :D
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On February 18 2012 15:34 Myrmidon wrote:All these LCDs have ghosting, even TN panels. Whether or not it's bothersome will depend on the viewer and what's being shown, so it's hard to really state some kind of cutoff point. I think many of the IPS monitors under $200 may not have properly-done overdrive or just may be slow, so yeah I guess it might be worse than say most of the Ultrasharp or Asus models. There's an Asus VS229H-P around $160, which does have the typical 0 / 20 / 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 "Trace Free" controls for overdrive aggressiveness though. I think the only difference with the VS229H is having the overdrive controls. The base VS229H (no overdrive) is reviewed on prad.de: http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2012/review-asus-vs229h.html14.8 ms fastest G2G without overdrive, so probably easily in the range of typical decent IPS with overdrive. By comparison, LG IPS235V they measure at 20.5 ms, even though LG lists 5 ms (lol). Input latency is 0.9 ms and calibrated contrast ratio they measure at 1242:1, but that's not the whole story.
You're comparing apples and oranges. The Asus VS229H-P is not IPS, which means of course it will have lower input lag than the LG IPS235V. The LG IPS235V is IPS and will have better visual quality than the Asus VS229H-P.
In reality, the best monitor for him is the Samsung S24A350H or the SA350 series in general.
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I don't mean to be rude. I've never seen you before affinity_12 whereas i've seen Myrmidon many times and i'm very aware of his knowledge. A question to everyone, as there has been some arguments in this thread already and id like to ask, does affinity_12 actually know what he's talking about?
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lol. ok 
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Sorry I was thinking of another Asus monitor.
For gaming, though, IPS monitors aren't very good unless you enter Dell UltraSharp range. Anything below that is just not worth it and you might as well get a TN panel which will give lower input lag and better response times.
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On February 18 2012 16:11 affinity_12 wrote:
Sorry I was thinking of another Asus monitor.
For gaming, though, IPS monitors aren't very good unless you enter Dell UltraSharp range. Anything below that is just not worth it and you might as well get a TN panel which will give lower input lag and better response times.
I've heard response time is irrelevant as all monitors these days have at most 5ms? (as i said earlier, monitors are a shady area for me).
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Most TN panels are pretty fast and will not be issues for the vast majority of people. The whole "most monitors have at most 5ms" applies only to TN panels, as the other panel types are slower. If a non-TN panel is listed at 5ms response time, that's probably not true in reality. Anyway, many IPS options may also be acceptably fast for most people, even playing games. It's something ideally that you should look at yourself, since some people are more sensitive to it than others.
For pictures showing differences in monitor pixel responsiveness, reference the "Monitor specs and what they mean" section of the OP.
IPS isn't a magic solution though, anyway. It's mostly just to avoid large shifts in color from small changes in viewing position, which is the big weakness of TN panels in general (many non-cheapo TN panels can have quite good sRGB color gamut coverage and even color accuracy if calibrated). If that's not distracting or an issue to you, then there are many good TN options worth looking at. The key advantages of Ultrasharps are just the warranty coverage and good stand adjustability.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5523/dsc0394xl.jpg)
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