EPTwhy arnt you banned?
mods are asleep :D, postcound suggest he won't survive long ;Dedit: skyR is right, outedit your quote pls.
Computer Build Resource Thread - Page 695
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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
edit: skyR is right, outedit your quote pls. | ||
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Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
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Dannnnn_The_Man
United States166 Posts
On October 28 2011 10:40 skyR wrote: Why are you quoting to help him advertise? good point i suppose. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 28 2011 10:27 FabledIntegral wrote: The parts will probably fail individually at certain points within that 10 year span, and it will be ungodly slow by then. I think it's fairly unrealistic to assume it will last for 10 years and have decent utility. Sure, there are computers still working now from 2001, but they are abysmal by today's standards and shouldn't be anyone's "main" computer, imo, even if it's only for basic needs. Not to mention hard drives back then barely could store any data by today's standards and file sizes. The SSD will almost certainly fail given many are having issues already, and I don't believe their life expectancy is anywhere near 10 years. I'm using a computer from 2001 right now, actually. It's a Celeron so it's not that good, however you can still do web browsing and listen to music and play SCBW and WC3 and stuff, even though you can't watch videos higher than 360p. I'd say that if it's just a web computer, it definitely should easily last for 10 years as this one I'm using is still usable and this isn't even comparable to what kind of computers there are these days. Especially as I doubt his grandparents play games. + Show Spoiler + On October 28 2011 10:16 HaRuHi wrote: An upgrade-build for my grandparents pc: Usage: Basic video editing(Moviemaker) and internetbrowsing. Budget: 500Euro. Upgradecycle: As long as possible. Q1 Current parts: Case: MicroATX case PSU: 400W Q2 PCU: Athlon XP RAM: 2x1GB Ram, HDD: 200GB IDE GPU: Raedon 9000series MOBO: Mindfuck hybrid thingy that supports Intel and AMD (2 PCU slots, 2 sets of RAMslots) OS:Win XP Planning to buy: MOBO: Asus P8H67-M Pro Rev 3.0(B3) Sockel 1155 Reasoning: Intel -> onboard(in-cpu) gpu is industry standard(biggest market share), driversupport will last longer, less powerconsumption/heat developement SATA3/SATA2 and IDE support -> no need to migrate Data from old 200GB IDE 4 ram slots -> upgrade ram when software to come demands more Price: 77,31€ with tax 92,00€ Q3 RAM: Kingston KVR1333D3S9/8G CL9 204pin (2x4GB) Reasoning: Dualchannel -> profits Videoediting Not 2x2GB -> reduce max RAM by 4GB, cheap atm Price: ?? with tax 58,00€ Q3 CPU/GPU: Intel I5-2500(K) Reasoning: (K)-model -> includes HD3000 instead of HD2000 Price: 176,47€ with tax 210,00€ Q3 SSD: OCZ Vertex 3 Series VTX3-25SAT3-60GB SATA3 Reasoning: only for win7, Thai Price: 98,32€ with tax 117€ Q3 OS: Win7 Home Premium 64bit Reasoning: Grandpa -> buys hardware gadgets often, don't want to waste MY lifetime by figuring out how to run them under Linux Price: 80,67€ with tax 96€ Q3 Price with taxes 573€ Q4 Q5 Q1: Is it realistic to assume that this will last for 10 years? Q2: Will 400W be sufficient? Q3: Are the prices reasonable or should I look for another Retailer, or try to bargain? Q4: Where could I make cuts? Q5: Please share if you got information that suggest different reasoning, see flaws in reasoning. edit: switched HDD with SDD due to Thai With that said, those some very poor hardware picks. That's probably the worst reasoning for going for 2500k that I've ever seen, especially as the new dedicated HTPC cards still significantly outperform the HD 3000 and you can get the combination for dirt cheap. Also you won't be needing more than 4gb in a long while, probably for the 10 years if it's just a web PC. Oh and SSDs will definitely fail before that. Suggestions for changes: CPU: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=50380&agid=1617 (or G540 if you can't wait / find it elsewhere. If you REALLY think moviemaker warrants this get it, but I honestly doubt it alot: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41220&agid=1617) mobo: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46914&agid=1603 (Nope 4 ram slots aren't necessary at all. Just buy a SATA - IDE converter. If you really think you need USB 3.0 get http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=48252&agid=1603) RAM: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38051&agid=1192 (You definitely won't need more than 4gb assuming your grandparents aren't total powerusers, you can go up to 8gb if you really really think it's necessary but then buy this one: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=44315&agid=1192) GPU: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46851&agid=717 (Yep, better than HD3000) And that's going to total around 135€, saving you about 225€ | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
With that said, those some very poor hardware picks. That's probably the worst reasoning for going for 2500k that I've ever seen, especially as the new dedicated HTPC cards still significantly outperform the HD 3000 and you can get the combination for dirt cheap. Also you won't be needing more than 4gb in a long while, probably for the 10 years if it's just a web PC. Oh and SSDs will definitely fail before that. Suggestions for changes: CPU: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=50380&agid=1617 (or G540 if you can't wait / find it elsewhere. If you REALLY think moviemaker warrants this get it, but I honestly doubt it alot: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41220&agid=1617) Alternatively, the i3-2105 has HD 3000 graphics and a slightly more powerful processor, although that's more expensive than the celeron & discrete card. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 28 2011 11:02 MisterFred wrote: Alternatively, the i3-2105 has HD 3000 graphics and a slightly more powerful processor, although that's more expensive than the celeron & discrete card. I totally forgot to mention that but that's true, if you go the HD3000 route that's the best choice, and not really a bad option especially if you want hyperthreading. Still 6450 is significantly better than HD3000, but HD3000 is still much better than HD2000. That's probably the most cost-efficient choice if you want the hyper-threading, thanks for mentioning it ! Pretty important: 500GB HDD probably has "stabilized" at a pretty reasonable pricepoint at 62.90€: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=49615&agid=1342 Why I think it's stabilized is because during the price changes during the past week, hardwareversand has had only even prices. So with lowering the price and making the price uneven, I'm assuming that it's stabilizing there, and that's a really good think. If it really stabilizes at 62.90€ it's much better than what I was expecting. | ||
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CaM27
Belgium392 Posts
I got another problem with this pc i just bought. I can't connect to internet with my new pc desktop. Apparently there is only this card a Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller. I got a wireless hercules, my laptop can connect without a problem. On my desktop it says. There aren't any connexion possible. When i try to solve a problem, they are telling me an eternet cable is not linked or something. Anyone mind helping? I'm desperate ;/ | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
If you're expecting the desktop to connect wirelessly like your laptop does, you need to buy a Wi-Fi adapter, plug that into the computer, and connect with that. They may be something like 15 euros. You can get one that plugs into a PCI slot, a PCI Express slot, or just USB. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Now another random question. How good would the performance of a Hybrid Crossfire with AMD Llano 3400s integrated 6410D and 6450 be? Is it outperformed by similiar budget options by intel?(mobo + CPU + GPUs totals at around 147€) | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
On October 28 2011 12:24 Myrmidon wrote: Almost all desktop motherboards including yours come with an onboard Ethernet adapter but no onboard Wi-Fi (IEEE 802.11) adapter. You plug an Ethernet cable into the motherboard and router if you want to connect it. If you're expecting the desktop to connect wirelessly like your laptop does, you need to buy a Wi-Fi adapter, plug that into the computer, and connect with that. They may be something like 15 euros. You can get one that plugs into a PCI slot, a PCI Express slot, or just USB. @Cam27 As has been mentioned in this thread, the USB one is best because you can move it around in case of spotty reception without moving the whole computer tower. | ||
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CaM27
Belgium392 Posts
I do appreciate it a lot because i have a lot of struggle with my new pc i bought yesterday. I'd like to know what are your thoughts on my pc and what i could improve: http://fr.packardbell.be/pb/fr/BE/content/model/PT.U6ME2.102 I also have bought this gtx560 but unfortunatly this gfx is not working with my alimentation/psu and even the case for cooling - i really hope i'll be able to get a refund or a some kind of deal with the shop. Anyway, Now that you got more insight on my specs what do you guys think of it? Do you think i should upgrade my gfx, if yes which one should i choose according to my specs. I really don't want to fuck me again with a gfx card that isn't even compatible with my specs (this sucks you have no idea how ashamed i am) or will this be fine for games like skyrim in high/ultra settings even sc2? Thanks a ton i really appreciate your help @ misterfred & myrmidon ignore my pm if are reading this! | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Keeping the GTX 560 is okay as long as you get a replacement power supply. The original GT 530 is not enough to play those kinds of new games with reasonable fps at higher than low settings. Unless you do heavy video editing, rendering, or other workstation tasks a lot, an i7-2600 is a waste of money since a i5-2500 is about 75 euros cheaper and has the same performance (or at least 95% of the same) in most programs including games. So this system has (1) a graphics card you want to replace, (2) a power supply you want to replace, (3) maybe a processor that is more expensive than it needs to be, and (4) possibly borderline cooling performance for a ~160W video card that exhausts heat into the case (rather than expelling most of it directly outside). Can you just return the computer for refund? Even if you want to buy a complete system already installed, it is better to get something already with the graphics card, so you don't need to have a spare GT 530 for no reason, an extra low-end power supply for no reason, and so on. Trying to upgrade a new system is usually a bad idea, as you're seeing. There is not much else to upgrade. Actually, the 2TB hard drive is a slower 5400 rpm model, whereas 7200 rpm is the standard. So overall disk access is slower than it could be (slower booting OS, loading programs, etc.). There's not enough of a difference to warrant an upgrade though, especially now that floods in Thailand have disrupted hard drive manufacturing, driving prices way up in the past couple of weeks. By the way, if you're replacing the power supply and the graphics card, that's almost half of the work of just putting together a computer yourself from all the components. So much for saving time. On October 28 2011 12:31 Shikyo wrote: By the way, thanks to everyone who answered my last random question! Now another random question. How good would the performance of a Hybrid Crossfire with AMD Llano 3400s integrated 6410D and 6450 be? Is it outperformed by similiar budget options by intel?(mobo + CPU + GPUs totals at around 147€) As far as I know, hybrid Crossfire has much worse support than normal Crossfire. It only works in certain (though many) DirectX 10 and 11 games, is prone to more issues, and the discrete graphics is usually considerably better than the integrated section anyway. 6410D sucks by the way, just 160 5xxx-class shaders. But then again, that's the same number the HD 6450 has. (HD 5570 has 400 of them). edit: so I guess in the above scenario, the integrated part is not that different from the discrete part. But it's still going to be worse than a HD 5570, so who cares? | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Pretty important: Second "stabilized" hard drive on hardwareversand.de, 250GB for 39.90€: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=33739&agid=689 | ||
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CaM27
Belgium392 Posts
The case is not suited and moreover the PSU is not qualified for the graphic card. So here is my trouble should i enquire an independent to replace the PSU and install the graphic card OR should i ask him to put everything in a new case adapted for cooling the graphic card with a new PSU. Which option should i choose + how much would it cost me more or less? | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Best option imo would be to return the computer if it's possible and instead buy a real computer. Apart from that you could try buying something like Merc Beta and Super Flower 450W or Corsair CX430W and that will cost you maybe 80 euros. | ||
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CaM27
Belgium392 Posts
On October 28 2011 14:44 Shikyo wrote: Normally you're supposed to check for compability before buying computers. Best option imo would be to return the computer if it's possible and instead buy a real computer. Apart from that you could try buying something like Merc Beta and Super Flower 450W or Corsair CX430W and that will cost you maybe 80 euros. First of all thanks to everyone helping me in this thread. You will recognize yourself! Big thanks to Shikyo for telling me what is the appropriate thing to do. That was really helpfull, i'm having a lack of sleep this last weeks, didn't really think straight in buying this new computer but everything came in my opinion right. I went back to the shop, i explained that one of their sellers did recommend me this computer for high end gaming and replacing the graphic card with the gt 560 would be totally optimal. It wasn't the case and got F big time. So they agreed to give me the value back in goods instead of cash, that wasn't mandatory by the way because the computer was allready used and normally there is no refund possible. So i was like ok this is half way done, but wait all there computers are PB, so i'm basiclly screwed. Instead i got lucky and they found a Medion with same cpu, even more ram so instead of 8 i got 12 now. The gfx instead of a gt530 i got a 550ti or something. No clue how good it is for skyrim or bf3 but they told me it's basiclly the same as gt560. Instead of 2to i got 3to at 7200 rpm or something instead of lesser rpm. Ofcourse i had to add 140€ but whatever i'm really pleased to be honest. Note to people willing to buy a prebuild never buy a Packard Bell. It's a hugh amount of horse shit. Basiclly from my experience it's 70% good hardware and the rest is a pile of rubbish. No CD ROMS, nothing. If you got a problem you'll need to send it right away to shipment. That's it now i hope i'll be able to enjoy some games, and you nice people how's a 550ti doing in gaming? Regards | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
By the way the people in those computer stores tend to be completely clueless and if you ask for their advice with picking a prebuilt computer, you're guaranteed to get screwed. I'm not sure why they hire that kind of people but yeah, it's just terrible. I'm not sure why you wouldn't just swap the 550 Ti into the 560. You can auction the 550 Ti I think. If you had to return both the computer and the GTX 560 AND had to pay 140€ extra you got ripped off again. | ||
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CaM27
Belgium392 Posts
On October 28 2011 21:08 Shikyo wrote: 550 Ti is definitely leaps and bounds above 530 but still it's not exactly 560. It's not exactly terrible, but the performance would be somewhere around 70% of that of GTX 560. By the way the people in those computer stores tend to be completely clueless and if you ask for their advice with picking a prebuilt computer, you're guaranteed to get screwed. I'm not sure why they hire that kind of people but yeah, it's just terrible. I'm not sure why you wouldn't just swap the 550 Ti into the 560. You can auction the 550 Ti I think. If you had to return both the computer and the GTX 560 AND had to pay 140€ extra you got ripped off again. Simply because the 550 Ti was in the prebuild and i didn't feel like installing the 560 and i might not even have the right PSU for it. I don't think i got ripped off as you mention. I got more ddr3 ram, i got more hard drive, gfx upgraded as you say miles ahead of the other one. So i'm happy to be honest. Thanks for clarification of the gfx. It also got another case which is way nicer, and some cooling shit added. I got a 3 year warranty too. Which is nice  But then again you must be right as you know what you're talking about, it's hurting my ego way too much  Actually in total i had to pay 50€ more. I bought a razer keyboard + a wireless adapter. So overall this computer cost 1150€. | ||
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Madoga
Netherlands471 Posts
On October 28 2011 12:31 Shikyo wrote: By the way, thanks to everyone who answered my last random question! Now another random question. How good would the performance of a Hybrid Crossfire with AMD Llano 3400s integrated 6410D and 6450 be? Is it outperformed by similiar budget options by intel?(mobo + CPU + GPUs totals at around 147€) Researched this a while ago and graffics wise. The best Llano gpu option (A8 3850+hd 6670 = 6690D2) All from memory, so dont mind if there is a mistake in the numbers. Anyway, gpu performance was a bit less than a 5770/6770. Allso calculated the prices and performance whith equal cpu power and the conclusion was its totally not worth it unless you want to upgrade in steps. Below that it only gets worse and not worth it imo. | ||
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furlyman
55 Posts
Budget: $1000-$1150 Use: Primarily Gaming Build: Motherboard: 1. GIGABYTE GA-Z68XP-UD3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (149.99) OR 2. MSI Z68A-GD55 (B3) LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS (159.99) CPU Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K (214.99) Memory / Ram 1. Crucial Ballistix sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT51264BA160A (49.99) - Recommended by a friend, didnt do too much research on this aspect of the build. GPU 1. Combo deal on newegg (I know I probably dont need a PE / OC card, but with the combo deal it ends up being about the same as the other 570's) - MSI N570GTX Twin Frozr III PE/OC GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card CD/DVD 1. ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS - OEM (20.99) HD Open to all suggestions. Possible : 1. Western Digital Scorpio Black wd5000bpkt 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache 2.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Notebook Hard Drive -Bare Drive (89.99) OR 2. Samsung F3 Spinpoint (if I can find it?) Case 1. COOLER MASTER HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP Black Steel + Plastic and Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case (89.99) PSU Part of the combo deal with the graphics cards, I know its overkill for my current setup but with the combo deal its about the same price as many 650W PSU and I would like to eventually SLI my 570's 1. CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX850 V2 850W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply Heatsink 1. COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R1 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 1366/1155 and AMD FM1/AM3+ Thermal Paste 1. IC DIAMOND 7 CARAT 1.5 GRAM THERMAL COMPOUND (3.99) Base Cost: All builds end with a base cost of 1000-1100 which is just about my budget. I do not need a monitor, keyboard, mouse , or any peripherals. As I said before, I am not extremely knowledgeable, though I have spent a couple of weeks researching all this stuff so I hope I am not too far off. Any constructive input would be appreciated. Thank you! | ||
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