EPTComputer Build Resource Thread - Page 1447
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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
Have you gone through and figured out what parts of the encoding take a relatively high amount of time? Or do you know? Pretty much everything is just passed through x264 - OBS and Xsplit do very very little work on that front AFAIK, and it also has little to no noticable effect on framerate, that's down to other factors.. x264 does it's job, it's extremely efficient and very rarely a problem (though being able to poof less CPU load or more encoding efficiency would never be a bad thing) performance is almost entirely defined by how well you can run the game and how much FPS/performance you lose with whatever method to get the screen info before encoding - That's an Xsplit gamesource graph with only sc2's CPU load, no encoding, and FPS does not change by adding encode workload on CPU, you still see a 60% FPS loss on the game for 1920x1080, 60fps. I verified this as practically identical on three similar setups (bloomsfield paired with a gtx200, 500 and 600 series on the same driver) but don't have much advanced info for how it would scale to others, but basic problem is not encoding workload (which has very little effect on performance of a game that only loads ~1.4 cores of a quad core) it's the losing up to 60% of performance in screen-capture or other processes before encoding, depending on resolution and FPS. I think OBS game capture is the best performing method for very high resolution and fps (1920x1080, 60fps) but you're still talking i think 40-60% FPS lost, which really hurts | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
But really, what's the deal with capture taking so much resources? It's just grabbing a raw frame from the GPU framebuffer, right? Passes in a raw image input to the encoder? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
But really, what's the deal with capture taking so much resources? It's just grabbing a raw frame from the GPU framebuffer, right? Passes in a raw image input to the encoder? If you want to know why the best performing method for getting a 1920x1080, 60fps image to an encoder cuts FPS in half, ask OBS.jim, R1CH and/or Hellgreen and get back to me, i'd love to know =P | ||
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
On April 07 2013 21:17 Cyro wrote: Why run a 2560x1440 stream? I mean you can, at like 30-40fps with a 3770k@4.6ghz, but why? I mean something like 98% of your viewers will have a worse stream viewing experience because you are spending a ton of bits and encoding time on something they are incapable of viewing, instead of the opportunity cost of making 1920x1080 better I did recently drop it down to 960p cause some viewers had chobo PCs, but you can't scale it to 1080 in OBS right now. | ||
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Bentus
Germany86 Posts
I found this Website http://www.logicalincrements.com/, what do you think about the builds? Would one of the "Great" Builds be good enough to run SC2 on Ultra and Stream? Or is there something better out there for about 800Euros? (need 200 for my new screen) Greetings | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
On April 08 2013 04:38 Bentus wrote: Hey guys, I found this Website http://www.logicalincrements.com/, what do you think about the builds? Would one of the "Great" Builds be good enough to run SC2 on Ultra and Stream? Or is there something better out there for about 800Euros? (need 200 for my new screen) Greetings SC2 is not GPU heavy at all, You'd be looking for something like an i5 3470 and a hd7770 for sc2, streaming purposes unless FPS in a much more graphically demanding game was important to you (at which point step up on gpu) i5 3570k plus a good z77 board and overclock is best option though, if you can OC | ||
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Bentus
Germany86 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
If you have the money, an i5-3470/3570 (or 3570k+OC) build will pretty much always be best for gaming (and by far the best choice even at lower budgets for sc2 - because you dont need a good GPU), but it can be a bad move to put too much of your budget into it for playing some games that do not rely heavily on the CPU, but require a good graphics card I'd say get a full new build, or step to the "Superb" level (i5 instead of fx CPU which performs awfully in sc2 or low threaded - seriously we're talking a 50% performance lead for the i5) with a $170-200+ or whatever GPU (7850, 7870?) which makes a much stronger, rounded gaming machine, but it might break budget. It's hard to work with all the different currencies and euro is so expensive compared to USD and overclocking by a certain percentage raises the minimum FPS you'll see by exactly that amount. Actually there's evidence of slightly or much stronger return on minimum FPS with overclocking. Averages during fight is a lot closer to linear but minimums rise vastly - It might be due to small sub-second freezes lasting a shorter portion of the second (game hitches are shorter with better CPU) or completely different factors. Both of these things IIRC: Jinglehell in RAM blog reported 2.8 to 3.8ghz plus uncore overclock on an i7 930 taking FPS minimum from 31 to 50 (36% core frequency OC, 61% min fps return) & R1CH sc2 overclocking blog showing ~33% OC returning 44% increase in min FPS on a 2500k Makes overclocking all the more yummy and exciting :D It's very difficult to have "enough" FPS in sc2, with Belial's extreme rig (3770k@5ghz, 2400mhz cl8 RAM) having minimum FPS in the 30's (I saw 44 - but the situation was not nearly as intensive as it could have been) for real world maxed out 1v1s with a 1360x768 60fps stream, I mean on a stock CPU you're looking at half to 2/3'rds of that depending on how scaling is. Without streaming, if you consider maybe dipping a bit below 30fps in worst case 1v1 being "good enough", then its ok with a modern i5 CPU (which perform the same as i7's in sc2), with it though performance is worse. Maybe not so bad at a low resolution and/or FPS on stream. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
Overclocking is really not hard, just may be frustrating with the testing. If you set aside one whole day for it, I'm guessing you'll have enough time for everything from reading what you have to do, getting a grip on the BIOS settings of your motherboard, to finding a stable pretty high overclock for your CPU. You should ask here in this thread by filling out that questionnaire from the OP. You could look through the last few pages for a recent build for someone that wanted the same thing as you. Also be aware that some products compare differently because of different prices in the US and Germany or less availability in the different market. | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
You can go cheaper not overclocking (i5-3470 + whatever bottom-priced B75 mobo, no CPU cooler), but if you want to stream SC2 overclocking will absolutely be worth learning. You could spend more on GPU if maxxing out graphics in every game is important to you, but this is going to perform very well for 1920x1080, and above the 7870 LE you start to hit diminishing returns. Overall, this build has a fair number of luxury components. Also, regarding pricing. Specials may change in the middle of the week, so be warned about that. And NCIX, like other major canadian retailers, price-matches. So you can shop around, find out who's offering the lowest price on a given component, and then use price-matching to buy all at once place. I didn't go to that trouble. i5-3570k ($240) http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=70541&vpn=BX80637I53570K&manufacture=Intel&promoid=1277 Gigabyte z77a-hd4 mobo ($120) http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=78646&vpn=GA-Z77-HD4&manufacture=Gigabyte&promoid=1360 Zalman CPU Cooler ($35) http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=51106&vpn=CNPS10X Performa&manufacture=ZALMAN TECH Powercolor 7870 Tahiti LE ($255) http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=80887&vpn=AX7870 2GBD5-2DHPPV2E&manufacture=PowerColor Corsair 2x4gb 1600mhz RAM ($68) http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=62841&vpn=CML8GX3M2A1600C9W&manufacture=Corsair Bit Fenix Ghost Case ($80) http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=73006&vpn=BFC-GHO-300-KKN1-RP&manufacture=BitFenix&promoid=1277 XFX Core 450w ($52) http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=63238&vpn=P1450SX2B9&manufacture=XFX Samsung 840 120gb ($100) http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=77210&vpn=MZ-7TD120BW&manufacture=Samsung Memory & Storage&promoid=1277 Seagate 1.5tb HDD ($90) http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=70854&vpn=ST1500DM003&manufacture=Seagate Samsung DVD-burner ($23) http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=76258&vpn=SH-224BB/BEBE&manufacture=Samsung Total: $1063 | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
The builds on that site are ok as a starting point/reference. But they're not targetted to particular applications (just 'general gaming'), don't take into account good specials at the time, and there's occasional questionable (though not bad) choices. If you want detailed parts advice you'd have to fill out the questionnaire in the OP when you're ready to buy. | ||
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Bentus
Germany86 Posts
On April 02 2013 07:03 Bentus wrote: Hey guys, saved up a total of 1,1k Euro and I want to reward myself for my A-levels in 2weeks so after them I want to buy a new gaming PC. !!I need a monitor aswell therefore it should be included in your calculations and I am open for recommandations.!! What are you using it for? So, I will use it mostly for gaming, streaming and little stuff like PPPT-s and Word... Skype, Browser etc. Only standard stuff.... When do you plan on building it? As I said before, I want to buy the pieces in 2weeks from today. Do you plan on overclocking? Not at all, i ve read what the OP wrote about it but I dont think I will use it. Do you need an Operating System? Yes, but I like Windows 7(have it on my laptop) Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Do i need this for Starcraft and streaming? Where are you buying your parts from? I currently live in Germany, so I can only buy what I get from here. In conclusion, I would like to build myself a new gaming pc which will be sufficient to stream and play Starcraft and from time to time some shooters with friends at Lan´s. Greets I am open for any adivce! Thanks in advance. I already filled this one out some pages ago. Although there was a conversation going on so maybe most people overread it. Well, my priority is Starcraft, I just want to be able to run CoD or Battlefield on some LAN's with my friends in case they lost enough in Sc2 for that Day :-) So I will buy the Pc tuesday in a week. Greets | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On April 08 2013 01:44 Aesop wrote: My lady wants to buy a desktop! Here's what we are on about: + Show Spoiler [questionnaire] + 1) What is your budget? Not fixed. We are looking for a reasonably priced solution that can fulfil the requirements in 3). 2) What is your resolution? 1920x1080 most likely. 3) What are you using it for? No gaming. It's meant as a working machine, with more load than a usual office PC since she's working in computational neuroscience. So it should have some computation power, just not excessively. Need a screen as well, but no OS right now. 4) What is your upgrade cycle? No regular upgrades planned, it should last a while. When do you plan on building it? Soon. Do you plan on overclocking? No. Do you need an Operating System? No. Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? No. Where are you buying your parts from? I was looking at www.mindfactory.de and the links lead there too. They are generally reliable and also at a good price point. I am mostly looking for reliable, good parts without being excessively expensive. Being (relatively) silent is a great plus too. Saving energy is always nice. Here's what I arrived at with some comments on my train of thought: CPU Intel Core i3 3220 2x 3.30GHz So.1155 BOX € 115,64 - For the use it will get, this appears like the most bang-for-the-buck CPU. 10 Euro less gives you a 3210, I am not sure if the difference is notable. Cooler Xigmatek Loki SD963 AMD und Intel € 15,41 - The CPU cooler doesn't appear too important to me. This one looked decent. Total: € 638,21 Thanks for your time! Any suggestions are welcome! I happen to have installed a 3220 with its included fan to a friend 3 weeks ago, and the fan is really quiet. Unless the PC is on her desk and not under (and even then), the included fan should be perfect. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
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Bentus
Germany86 Posts
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
Thanks for quoting your questionnaire now that you're closer to buying. BenQ GW2460HM monitor (170) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/BenQ/GW2460HM,_LED-Monitor/1036341/? i5-3350p (P means no integrated graphics - 153) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Intel(R)/Core(TM)_i5-3350P,_CPU/1020996/? Asus B75 mATX mobo (55) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/ASUS/P8B75-M_LX_PLUS,_Mainboard/1043585/? 2x4gb G.Skill RAM (50) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/G.Skill/DIMM_8_GB_DDR3-1600_Kit,_Arbeitsspeicher/801624/? Fractal Design Core 1000 case (30) mATX mobos only! http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Fractal_Design/Core_1000,_Gehaeuse/866222/?tk=7&lk=1887 Be Quiet! System Power 7 450w (55) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/be_quiet!/System_Power_7_450W,_Netzteil/1047433/?tk=7&lk=3484 Samsung 840 120gb SSD (82) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Samsung/840_series_2,5_120_GB,_SSD/1038279/?tk=7&lk=1863 Seagate 1TB HDD (58) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Seagate/ST1000DM003_1_TB,_Festplatte/963366/? DVD-burner (18) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Samsung/SH-224BB-BEBE,_DVD-Brenner/1033259/? Windows 7 (87) This should link to the Deutsch version. The website also offers English, what I think is an international version, and maybe other languages. http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Microsoft/Windows_7_Home_Premium,_SystemBuilder/825246/?event=search Subtotal: 758 euro. A big question is how much do you want to spend on the graphics card? A mid range card is more than enough to play SC2 on maximum settings & get decent settings in most graphically-intense games. But if you play graphically intense games & want them as good as they can get... then you'd spend a lot more. Beyond running your game, the GPU you choose will have no effect on streaming. Recommended mid-range card: Gigabyte 650ti Boost (160) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/GIGABYTE/GV-N65TBOC-2GD,_Grafikkarte/1074486/? Higher-end graphics card: Sapphire 7950 (285) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/SAPPHIRE/Radeon_HD_7950_with_Boost,_Grafikkarte/1060525/? Total 650ti Boost: 918 euro Total 7950: 1043 euro Edit: And don't miss Myrmidon's excellent comments below. These totals don't include peripherals, shipping, and I didn't check other german retailers to see which would give you the best price overall - so you may want to comparison shop somewhat. Ways to spend more if you want to: Double the size of SSD & HDD Go for an overclocking setup (i5-3570k, gigabyte z77a-hd4, HR-02 Macho, something like that) Get the more expensive video card. Get a more expensive case, like the sound-dampening ATX-sized Fractal Design R4 And if you also need a mouse, I highly recommend a Mionix Naos 3200. Don't forget to thank your e-sports sponsors (e-mail them) and tell them what you bought: BenQ - GSL, everyone-and-their-dog Intel - IEM, team Alternate ASUS - ASUS ROG, an online cup Samsung - team Samsung Khan, WCG Gigabyte (650ti boost) - Gigabyte Esports LAN, a few small online cups Nvidia (650ti boost) - team Incredible Miracle, team Alternate, a variety of small cups Sapphire (7950) - Dreamhack, a few small online cups AMD (7950) - Dreamhack, Polarfluke Alternate.de - team Alternate | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On April 08 2013 07:11 Bentus wrote: I dont mind any specific shop, I ve read in the OP that hardwareversand.de isn't that bad. Only thing is that it has to be avaible here. HWVS is fantastic! Some of the best prices in EU. Mindfactory is actually a bit better on prices generally, but people outside Germany must pay 30 euro shipping by 2 as their cases come from a different warehouse to the other components (stupid I know). | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On April 08 2013 08:05 MisterFred wrote: @Bentus Thanks for quoting your questionnaire now that you're closer to buying. + Show Spoiler [build etc] + BenQ GW2460HM monitor (170) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/BenQ/GW2460HM,_LED-Monitor/1036341/? i5-3350p (P means no integrated graphics - 153) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Intel(R)/Core(TM)_i5-3350P,_CPU/1020996/? Asus B75 mATX mobo (55) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/ASUS/P8B75-M_LX_PLUS,_Mainboard/1043585/? 2x4gb G.Skill RAM (50) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/G.Skill/DIMM_8_GB_DDR3-1600_Kit,_Arbeitsspeicher/801624/? Fractal Design Core 1000 case (30) mATX mobos only! http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Fractal_Design/Core_1000,_Gehaeuse/866222/?tk=7&lk=1887 Be Quiet! System Power 7 450w (55) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/be_quiet!/System_Power_7_450W,_Netzteil/1047433/?tk=7&lk=3484 Samsung 840 120gb SSD (82) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Samsung/840_series_2,5_120_GB,_SSD/1038279/?tk=7&lk=1863 Seagate 1TB HDD (58) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Seagate/ST1000DM003_1_TB,_Festplatte/963366/? DVD-burner (18) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Samsung/SH-224BB-BEBE,_DVD-Brenner/1033259/? Windows 7 (87) This should link to the Deutsch version. The website also offers English, what I think is an international version, and maybe other languages. http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Microsoft/Windows_7_Home_Premium,_SystemBuilder/825246/?event=search Subtotal: 758 euro. A big question is how much do you want to spend on the graphics card? A mid range card is more than enough to play SC2 on maximum settings & get decent settings in most graphically-intense games. But if you play graphically intense games & want them as good as they can get... then you'd spend a lot more. Beyond running your game, the GPU you choose will have no effect on streaming. Recommended mid-range card: Gigabyte 650ti Boost (160) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/GIGABYTE/GV-N65TBOC-2GD,_Grafikkarte/1074486/? Higher-end graphics card: Sapphire 7950 (285) http://www.alternate.de/html/product/SAPPHIRE/Radeon_HD_7950_with_Boost,_Grafikkarte/1060525/? Total 650ti Boost: 918 euro Total 7950: 1043 euro These totals don't include peripherals, shipping, and I didn't check other german retailers to see which would give you the best price overall - so you may want to comparison shop somewhat. Ways to spend more if you want to: Double the size of SSD & HDD Go for an overclocking setup (i5-3570k, gigabyte z77a-hd4, HR-02 Macho, something like that) Get the more expensive video card. Get a more expensive case, like the sound-dampening ATX-sized Fractal Design R4 And if you also need a mouse, I highly recommend a Mionix Naos 3200. Don't forget to thank your e-sports sponsors (e-mail them) and tell them what you bought: BenQ - GSL, everyone-and-their-dog Intel - IEM, team Alternate ASUS - ASUS ROG, an online cup Samsung - team Samsung Khan, WCG Gigabyte (650ti boost) - Gigabyte Esports LAN, a few small online cups Nvidia (650ti boost) - team Incredible Miracle, team Alternate, a variety of small cups Sapphire (7950) - Dreamhack, a few small online cups AMD (7950) - Dreamhack, Polarfluke Alternate.de - team Alternate I have two minor comments here about the picks (otherwise, go ahead with this) (1) Keep in mind the limited number of drives supported by Core 1000. With one SSD and one HDD, I think that fills all the spots. Also we forget to mention this a lot, but with 3 SATA drives and a motherboard that comes with 2 SATA cables, you might need to just buy a 3rd SATA cable if you don't have a spare. (2) Be Quiet! System Power S7 is just FSP Raider-based, right? Seeing as it's in their System Power line, it probably doesn't use not-notch parts. Given the uncertainty and these factors, I'd suggest the identically-priced XFX Core 550W instead. It's overkill but at least it has two PCIe cables natively, unlike the cheaper 450W version. http://www.alternate.de/html/product/XFX/PRO550W,_Netzteil/838244/? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
(1) Keep in mind the limited number of drives supported by Core 1000. With one SSD and one HDD, I think that fills all the spots You dont need a drive mount bay for SSD though, you can just leave it hanging or if you are worried about moving it around, duct tape it to the side of the case or something | ||
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