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5930 Posts
If we're talking about decent single cards (let's ignore the Titan for now), its a no brainer to go for AMD. Better price performance, drivers are decent enough to run games, AMD cards are smart enough to set HDMI up correctly. The only instances where you'd go nVidia is if you want:
- CUDA (some things use it, more things are starting to use OpenCL)
- PhysX (not a lot uses it)
- SLI (Crossfire's frame latency is...not good)
- Motion blur reduction through backlight manipulation (through Lightboost)
The last one is interesting if you have a good enough computer to run things at 120 FPS near constantly. You lose some adjustment settings but it actually is the next best thing since sliced bread.
Belial, I'm not sure why you'd put the NZXT Phantom in the same class as the Fractal Design R4. One is an extremely flexible chassis that is designed to keep most moderate computer systems quiet and the other is very obviously a gamer chassis. Also aren't both variants of the Phantom basically full tower chassis? Basically a waste of space if you ask me...its quite a bit larger than the R4 when I last checked and that's not a very small chassis either.
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On April 05 2013 03:29 Belial88 wrote:
Coil whine can occur with anything, mobo or card or psu, it comes when the coils get above 80-120*C depending on the coils. My Z77X-UD5H, even with 1.65v, never gets anywhere near 70*C so it won't coil whine, while my gtx 460 gets to 80*C sometimes but the coils are high enough quality that they don't whine at that temp. Meanwhile my msi z77a-g41 has coil whine at stock voltage on an i5-3570k, because it's crap quality.
What's "coil whine" ?
edit : just googled it, forget I aksed 
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On April 06 2013 01:01 Womwomwom wrote:
If we're talking about decent single cards (let's ignore the Titan for now), its a no brainer to go for AMD. Better price performance, drivers are decent enough to run games, AMD cards are smart enough to set HDMI up correctly. The only instances where you'd go nVidia is if you want:
- CUDA (some things use it, more things are starting to use OpenCL)
- PhysX (not a lot uses it)
- SLI (Crossfire's frame latency is...not good)
- Motion blur reduction through backlight manipulation (through Lightboost)
The last one is interesting if you have a good enough computer to run things at 120 FPS near constantly. You lose some adjustment settings but it actually is the next best thing since sliced bread.
There are a few Nvidia cards that are price-competitive for the average consumer. The 660 performs between the 7850 & the 7870, closer to the 7870, and it can sometimes be found for a bit cheaper than a 7870. So I sometimes recommend it depending on pricing. The 650 ti Boost's recent reviews put it about where the 7850 is in performance, maybe just a touch faster, so I sometimes recommend it when it is the same price as the 7850 or cheaper. Though since the Boost came out the 7850 has had better gifts in terms of game coupons.
Edit: and on the flip side of the coin, I'm not quite as convinced by the recent Crossfire frame latency hoopla as some. pcper released three videos of crossfire vs sli to go with their 7950 vs 660ti article (I think that's the one), and while SLI looked better in two of the three games, Crossfire looked better in BF3.
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On April 04 2013 08:14 GolemMadness wrote:I am looking to buy a new desktop. What is your budget?Somewhere around $1,000, but it's flexible. I don't want to be spending twice that amount or anything, but I can go a bit higher if necessary. What is your resolution?I've been using a 4:3 monitor for the last 13 years or so, and am most likely going to be getting a new monitor that will be included in the budget cost. What are you using it for?LoL/Starcraft 2, browsing, watching movies. It would be nice to have the option of streaming, but it's not necessary.
What is your upgrade cycle?
2+ years. When do you plan on building it?As soon as possible. Do you plan on overclocking?No. Do you need an Operating System?No, I have Windows 7. Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?No. Where are you buying your parts from?If I were to buy locally, it'd be from http://genericcomputer.com. Otherwise, I live in Vancouver, Canada, so whichever place has the best prices.
@MemoryExpress
Core™ i5-3570K Processor Bundle w/ Asus P8Z77-@ $340 -$15MIR
Zalman CNPS10X @ $15-$10MIR (Pricematch: http://ncix.com/products/?sku=67639&promoid=1277)
Patriot Viper 3 Series @ $65
Corsair Builder Series CX430 @ $41 (Pricematch: http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=11180AC2578&vpn=CP-9020046-US&manufacture=CORSAIR)
Asus DRW-24B1ST @ $16 (Pricematch: http://www.bestdirect.ca/products/225965/ASUS/DRW_24B1ST_Bulk/)
WD 1TB Blue @ $70
Total: $ 547.16 + $ 5 shipping + tax
@ BestDirect
Bitfenix Merc Beta Steel Black @ $36
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost OC 1098MHZ @ 166
Total: $202 + tax
@ Dell
Wait for Dell UltraSharp U2312HM 23" Monitor @ $200 (rarely hits $180)
Total: ~$950 + tax - $25 MIR
Edit: I should also say that I would spend more on the gpu if I were you, maybe something like a 7950 or nvdia equivalent that's on special. by adding anywhere from ~$100 to ~$250 to the total, the gpu would remain solid in the next few years if you plan on playing the new games on high settings.
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On April 06 2013 01:18 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:29 Belial88 wrote:
Coil whine can occur with anything, mobo or card or psu, it comes when the coils get above 80-120*C depending on the coils. My Z77X-UD5H, even with 1.65v, never gets anywhere near 70*C so it won't coil whine, while my gtx 460 gets to 80*C sometimes but the coils are high enough quality that they don't whine at that temp. Meanwhile my msi z77a-g41 has coil whine at stock voltage on an i5-3570k, because it's crap quality.
What's "coil whine" ? edit : just googled it, forget I aksed
It's when coils get really obnoxious and won't stop bugging you to take them for ice cream.
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If you're in Vancouver or Richmond than I'm not sure why you wouldn't buy from NCIX unless Generic Computer price matches as well?
You don't need a 650w power supply for such a configuration and even if you did, an Antec True Power 650w at $123 is overpriced. The Antec Basiq BP500 is okay but still overpriced at $65. If you want a cheap power supply, get a CX430 for around $40. If you want a decent one, get a XFX Core Edition 550 or Neo Eco for ~$50-$60, and if you want a good unit, get a Rosewill Capstone 450 or Seasonic G 450 for ~$70-$80.
GTX 650 at $135 is overpriced and is not really a suitable gaming card for 1080p unless you just plan on playing every game on mid-ish settings.
P8Z77-V LE for $145 is overpriced, same with 2x4gb for $80 and everything else you have listed.
Antec Three Hundred is a rather dated case.
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@GolemMadness:
The CPU you chose is strange as it will be two generations old this coming summer, 3570k is the current design at the moment. The motherboard could be something cheaper. Memory is too pricey and could be 1600 MHz with the same timings and the same 1.5V. That it's 2x4GB is the correct choice. The graphics card could be 650 TI instead of 650. If you find a shop with wider variety of PSUs, you could choose a much cheaper PSU that's still quality as you don't need 650 W but only something like 450 W. You could choose a smaller and cheaper HDD and get an additional SSD, not for the same price as the 3 TB HDD you chose, but it would be much more enjoyable using a PC with SSD.
I bet you yourself would have chosen very different parts if you would not try to lock yourself to the shop you want to buy from and had rummaged through the site of a shop with a wider variety of products to choose from.
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@GolemMadness
Is there some reason you chose to pay more for worse components than the build I gave you?
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I noticed you were interested in buying a prebuilt earlier too... NCIX assembles your components for about $50 if you live in Canada, if building it yourself is unappealing.
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The lego part is where all the fun is had, though. 
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On April 06 2013 01:01 Womwomwom wrote:
- Motion blur reduction through backlight manipulation (through Lightboost)
The last one is interesting if you have a good enough computer to run things at 120 FPS near constantly. You lose some adjustment settings but it actually is the next best thing since sliced bread.
I thought A-TW polarizers were the next best thing since sliced bread. ;P
But seriously: how long do you reckon before AMD and Intel IGP can offer something similar?
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5930 Posts
On April 06 2013 19:50 blueslobster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 01:01 Womwomwom wrote:
- Motion blur reduction through backlight manipulation (through Lightboost)
The last one is interesting if you have a good enough computer to run things at 120 FPS near constantly. You lose some adjustment settings but it actually is the next best thing since sliced bread. I thought A-TW polarizers were the next best thing since sliced bread. ;P But seriously: how long do you reckon before AMD and Intel IGP can offer something similar?
Yeah they're still cool but if you've got a totally sick desktop and play tons of games with tons of movement, the Lightboost trick produces very solid results.
To answer your other question, when you mean by similar do you mean good performance? Probably not in a long time, you might achieve that target on really old Source games but that's about it. Most APU-like processors are constrained by size and a lot of the time they're bottlenecked by the slow memory most people use.
The most powerful APUs are probably going to be found in the next Xbox and in the PS4. From what we know, the PS4 is going to be using an APU that has 8x Jaguar cores and a stripped down HD7870 IGP component. This sounds pretty bad on paper but for console manufacturers, this sort of thing makes sense:
- the hardware isn't going to change so you've go very specific development tools to help developers use the GPU's GPGPU effectively
- they're designed to be always on (and have instant startup) so low idle power is mandatory
- Sony is going to put a unified pool of 8GB of GDDR5 into the PS4
- developers know exactly what hardware they're using so they're going to design around that number of cores, that specific GPU architecture, and that specific amount of RAM.
With the DIY PC market, you can't really do any of this and enthusiasts aren't looking for such a thing in the first place. Even if there was a market, its still economical and financial suicide in most cases.
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Yeah I've followed Vega and Mark's progress with LB in earnest. First real progress for LCDs in general :p
I think depending on how AMD ultimately addresses the frame latency issue will determine if I ever consider their cards again.
My last two ATI cards were the 8500LE and the 9800Pro, so I haven't touched camp Red in a very long time haha. I would wager that by the 3rd gen of LB that AMD would wake-up and consider releasing their own version of it...but we'll have to see.
@Womwom - If I recall, AT was pretty high up on the effect of higher clocked RAM paired with APUs/IGPd, but its a bit odd cuz people buying integrated GPUs isn't exactly the proper market for enthusiast RAM in the first place lol.
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AMD has been working pretty hard on frame latency.
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Belial, I'm not sure why you'd put the NZXT Phantom in the same class as the Fractal Design R4. One is an extremely flexible chassis that is designed to keep most moderate computer systems quiet and the other is very obviously a gamer chassis. Also aren't both variants of the Phantom basically full tower chassis? Basically a waste of space if you ask me...its quite a bit larger than the R4 when I last checked and that's not a very small chassis either.
Both are high quality computer cases. For what they are, both are good value at a good price, just presenting the guy some options. Phantom is a mid-tower, it's slightly bigger than most mid-towers because of that detail on the top of it but I wouldn't say it's 'not a very small chasis'. It's not a very big case at all. I haven't seen the R4 in person but I've seen the phantom and at least 50 other cases in person and the phantom is mid-atx just like every other case, just with a slight bump at the top. It hardly stands out as big.
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These days there are many Phantom versions.
Phantom (original) - 25.74" x 8.74" x 21.32", 7 slots, EATX support
Phantom 410 - 20.94" x 8.46" x 20.31", 7 slots
Phantom 630 - 24.69" x 9.65" x 23.62", 9 slots
Phantom 820 - 25.59" x 9.25" x 24.09", 9 slots, EATX support
Define R4 - 20.59" x 9.13" x 18.27", 7+1 slots
Phantom is a full tower in my books, but the distinction is not really that important. Most mid towers are larger than they need to be, really, and lots of stuff straddles the line. Functionally it's very different than the Define R4 though. edit: at least in the context of ATX towers with normal layouts. I mean, we're talking about computer cases so most everything is functionally similar in the sense that they house components.
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The top part of a phantom lets you stick a rad in there, which can be really nice.
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I'm planning to buy a whole new setup help would be appreciated <3
What is your budget?
800-1200 More if needed, not really worried about the price but don't want to blow like 2000.
What is your resolution?
Whatever is best for Photoshop.
What are you using it for?
Computer is going to be mainly for photoshop as im going through for graphics design, so mainly focused around that. I also play sc2 (most graphically demanding game I will play) and other games, other then that I just browse and download music.
What is your upgrade cycle?
2+ years probably?
When do you plan on building it?
Within 4 months or so.
Do you plan on overclocking?
If needed, doesn't really matter, whatever is recommended
Do you need an Operating System?
Yes preferably windows 7.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
If required.
Where are you buying your parts from?
Most likely newegg and tigerdirect.ca
If I screwed up on anything and need to go in more detail let me know otherwise thanks so much.
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Come back in four months. New CPUs and motherboards will be available in a couple months and prices for most parts change over time, so it doesn't really help to be specific now.
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EPT
