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On February 26 2013 06:25 xeo1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 03:46 Cyro wrote:
A really lucky chip could do 4.2ghz on 1.0v, you'd probably need like 1.15 or something.
Quick and easy basic OC - set 42 multi, manual voltage, 1.2vcore, run 20 runs high or very high on Intelburntest, if it passes, go down in vcore (1.2, 1.18, 1.16, 1.14) etc. If it fails, go up two of those steps and go 50 runs to confirm basic stability.
Little bit of vcore does not matter at that point and optimization doesnt really mean anything at low levels of heat, voltage, etc.
Of course, monitor temperatures with Realtemp. You shouldnt pass something like 80c under that load so if my vcore is +1.00, I should put the offset as +.2 (default is .005)? since I have no option that changes the vcore altogether.
The easiest way to get to a stable overclock voltage is to used fixed mode at first, rather than offset mode. Just set the fixed voltage to 1.20v, and run tests there, to see if it's stable. Once you find a minimum stable voltage, then switch to to offset mode, and find the offset that gets you to that fixed voltage under load. This will let you take advantage of things like LLC and idle undervolting while removing some of the variables.
EDIT: also I'm jealous of all of you that can get 4.3ghz at ~1.1v. It takes me 1.235 to get to stability, and I'm nowhere near temperature capped.
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On February 26 2013 06:49 xeo1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 06:31 Ropid wrote:On February 26 2013 06:25 xeo1 wrote:On February 26 2013 03:46 Cyro wrote:
A really lucky chip could do 4.2ghz on 1.0v, you'd probably need like 1.15 or something.
Quick and easy basic OC - set 42 multi, manual voltage, 1.2vcore, run 20 runs high or very high on Intelburntest, if it passes, go down in vcore (1.2, 1.18, 1.16, 1.14) etc. If it fails, go up two of those steps and go 50 runs to confirm basic stability.
Little bit of vcore does not matter at that point and optimization doesnt really mean anything at low levels of heat, voltage, etc.
Of course, monitor temperatures with Realtemp. You shouldnt pass something like 80c under that load so if my vcore is +1.00, I should put the offset as +.2 (default is .005)? since I have no option that changes the vcore altogether. I have the same board and CPU as you, and just now went into the BIOS to look up my settings. I use the latest BIOS version, 1.80. These are the results of my experiments with overclocking the last two months: 4.3 GHz: Offset Voltage -0.010 V 4.4 GHz: Offset Voltage +0.045 V 4.5 GHz: Offset Voltage +0.105 V What the actual voltages will be, you'll see with CPU-Z while running IntelBurnTest. The board has no settings to directly set those. With the -0.010 V Offset Voltage at multiplier 43, I see the Core Voltage in CPU-Z change between 1.080 V and 1.104 V while running IntelBurnTest. I have no idea how that offset setting relates to the actual voltage. About the other BIOS settings: at the top of the screen, set "Advanced Turbo 30" to Disabled. This is important, leaving it on would make the board use some automatic rules resulting in higher voltages and temperature. Do not load any of the overclocking presets. Set "CPU Ratio" to All Core. At the bottom of the screen at the Voltage Configuration, set "Power Saving Mode" to Disabled, set "CPU Voltage" to Offset Mode. The rest of the settings, leave/put them on Auto. I tested with IntelBurnTest using 4 GB memory, and perhaps 12 hours of Prime95 running in "blend" setting, also ran MemTest up to over 200 % coverage. Room temperature was generally about 21 degrees C, but probably a lot colder at the ground where the PC gets its air from, as the outside weather was generally freezing, so I have no idea how it'll fare in warmer weather. thanks for the detailed response. what would you recommend as the offset then at 4.2 ghz though? leave it on default? I'd rather not go higher just yet
I think default is higher than -0.010 V for that Offset Voltage setting, so don't go with default.
Take a look what happens to the "Voltage Configuration" section of the screen if you switch the "Power Saving Mode" setting to Enabled. That's what AsRock thinks are stable settings for the CPU running without overclock (that's multiplier 38?). The actual default settings are much higher. That's why it's possible to go into the negatives at that Offset Voltage setting.
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On February 26 2013 06:59 upperbound wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 06:25 xeo1 wrote:On February 26 2013 03:46 Cyro wrote:
A really lucky chip could do 4.2ghz on 1.0v, you'd probably need like 1.15 or something.
Quick and easy basic OC - set 42 multi, manual voltage, 1.2vcore, run 20 runs high or very high on Intelburntest, if it passes, go down in vcore (1.2, 1.18, 1.16, 1.14) etc. If it fails, go up two of those steps and go 50 runs to confirm basic stability.
Little bit of vcore does not matter at that point and optimization doesnt really mean anything at low levels of heat, voltage, etc.
Of course, monitor temperatures with Realtemp. You shouldnt pass something like 80c under that load so if my vcore is +1.00, I should put the offset as +.2 (default is .005)? since I have no option that changes the vcore altogether. The easiest way to get to a stable overclock voltage is to used fixed mode at first, rather than offset mode. Just set the fixed voltage to 1.20v, and run tests there, to see if it's stable. Once you find a minimum stable voltage, then switch to to offset mode, and find the offset that gets you to that fixed voltage under load. This will let you take advantage of things like LLC and idle undervolting while removing some of the variables. EDIT: also I'm jealous of all of you that can get 4.3ghz at ~1.1v. It takes me 1.235 to get to stability, and I'm nowhere near temperature capped.
The mainboard does not have a fixed mode.
About the voltage and stability and temperature. I'm not sure it's actually 1.1 V that the CPU is running at. That's what CPU-Z is showing, but at the same time, I'm worried and pretty sure it'll go over 80 degree C in the summer. That shouldn't be the case if it's really 1.1 V, I think. CPU-Z gets its numbers from the mainboard, and those could simply be totally off. That could be the reason they removed any fixed mode like features in the BIOS. It was also the cheapest z77 board that was available. 
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yup no fixed mode, my cpuz says cv is 1.072 and default offset is +.005 at 3.4 ghz. I have no idea what the offset should be if I crank it up to 4.2 ghz.
EDIT: could it be that +.012 offset would make cv 1.20? oO
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On February 26 2013 07:46 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 06:59 upperbound wrote:On February 26 2013 06:25 xeo1 wrote:On February 26 2013 03:46 Cyro wrote:
A really lucky chip could do 4.2ghz on 1.0v, you'd probably need like 1.15 or something.
Quick and easy basic OC - set 42 multi, manual voltage, 1.2vcore, run 20 runs high or very high on Intelburntest, if it passes, go down in vcore (1.2, 1.18, 1.16, 1.14) etc. If it fails, go up two of those steps and go 50 runs to confirm basic stability.
Little bit of vcore does not matter at that point and optimization doesnt really mean anything at low levels of heat, voltage, etc.
Of course, monitor temperatures with Realtemp. You shouldnt pass something like 80c under that load so if my vcore is +1.00, I should put the offset as +.2 (default is .005)? since I have no option that changes the vcore altogether. The easiest way to get to a stable overclock voltage is to used fixed mode at first, rather than offset mode. Just set the fixed voltage to 1.20v, and run tests there, to see if it's stable. Once you find a minimum stable voltage, then switch to to offset mode, and find the offset that gets you to that fixed voltage under load. This will let you take advantage of things like LLC and idle undervolting while removing some of the variables. EDIT: also I'm jealous of all of you that can get 4.3ghz at ~1.1v. It takes me 1.235 to get to stability, and I'm nowhere near temperature capped. The mainboard does not have a fixed mode. About the voltage and stability and temperature. I'm not sure it's actually 1.1 V that the CPU is running at. That's what CPU-Z is showing, but at the same time, I'm worried and pretty sure it'll go over 80 degree C in the summer. That shouldn't be the case if it's really 1.1 V, I think. CPU-Z gets its numbers from the mainboard, and those could simply be totally off. That could be the reason they removed any fixed mode like features in the BIOS. It was also the cheapest z77 board that was available.
Oh, I forgot that the Pro4 doesn't have one.
And your vcore could be 1.1v with over 80c core temps, but this would probably be a decent sign that your cooling solution is not properly seated or inadequate. 80c isn't really a breaking point, though -- ivy bridge runs pretty hot and you can be comfortable going up to 85c or even just under 90c in the summertime at the wall (keep in mind that you generally will not be going to the absolute wall for temps with extreme usage of all 4 cores unless you're doing benchmarking and stress testing). I agree that under that is a little dangerous, though, and will probably shorten the life of your CPU.
The better question is: where are you now? You're at a pretty safe voltage and multiplier, so if you're getting close to 80c then you may want to consider reapplying thermal paste and seating your heatsink again.
yup no fixed mode, my cpuz says cv is 1.072 and default offset is +.005 at 3.4 ghz. I have no idea what the offset should be if I crank it up to 4.2 ghz.
Try +.1 with multiplier 42, see where you're at, and run stress tests. You might crash, but you'd have to have a god awful chip to not at least boot and get into an actual stress test. Crashing isn't bad (though you should make sure you take off drive caching for your main drive before you do), and you might crash, but you'll at least be close this way.
If you're safe on something like 10 maximum InterBurnTest or 20 high IBT, try dropping it down a bit (Cyro's .02 suggestion is fine), and try again. If it then fails, go back to the last setting, and run a several-hour custom mixed Prime95 test (with >90% memory usage) to see if you're long-term stable.
You can do this with finer movements (.01 or .005), but I'd rather leave this for fine tuning once you get truly close (like you get 4 hours into the Prime95 test, chances are you're really close, or you pass 12 hours and really care about getting minimum power consumption, you can try it again with .005 less).
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Perhaps its not the right thread... I'm looking for a wireless router. A good one. I need a strong signal that go to the basement (basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor = my house). The internet modem is on the 2nd floor.
Any suggestion? What should I be looking for?
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The Offset Voltage setting on this board does not work like you think. I think it may be modifying the voltage that's added with every single step when the CPU ramps up from 1600 MHz to 4200 MHz. That's why the results look so off, a negative number resulting in over 1.1 V. I'll make some screenshots later. I remember one of the settings being on Auto and saying some kind of default core voltage is set to 1.05 V or so. There's another setting that sounds like it's about the voltage that gets added with each speed step.
EDIT: I was wrong, the Offset stuff works just like it should. A value of +0.100 V raises everything by that amount, idle voltage, and voltage at load.
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On February 26 2013 09:32 XenOmega wrote:
Perhaps its not the right thread... I'm looking for a wireless router. A good one. I need a strong signal that go to the basement (basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor = my house). The internet modem is on the 2nd floor.
Any suggestion? What should I be looking for?
It's hard to say because of how interference differs from one building to the next. If you can afford it, you can get a repeater on the 1st floor to relay the signal. You might not need one at all, though.
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On February 26 2013 08:57 xeo1 wrote:
yup no fixed mode, my cpuz says cv is 1.072 and default offset is +.005 at 3.4 ghz. I have no idea what the offset should be if I crank it up to 4.2 ghz.
EDIT: could it be that +.012 offset would make cv 1.20? oO
Use this guide: http://www.overclock.net/t/1198504/complete-overclocking-guide-sandy-bridge-ivy-bridge-asrock-edition
It goes through all settings of an AsRock BIOS (the OC page, and the CPU config sub-page of the "Advanced" page). The settings that guide says to start out with while experimenting, those already seem to work for 4.2 GHz for me. The guide strongly discourages from undervolting, so simply try out multiplier 42 with their suggested settings. Perhaps you'll be done with it, just like that.
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what do u guys think about this build? for gaming/streaming/rendering
im looking to be able to run every game coming out.
CPU: Intel Core i7-3820 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme 81.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Asus Rampage IV Formula ATX LGA2011 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk
Case: Corsair 600T White Graphite ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: Corsair Enthusiast 750W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply
Video: AMD Radeon HD7970 3072MB GDDR5 Dual-X OC
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
The mainboard does not have a fixed mode. Well this sucks.. obviously not a decent overclocking board.. sorry i didnt take that into account
what do u guys think about this build? for gaming/streaming/rendering
im looking to be able to run every game coming out.
CPU: Intel Core i7-3820 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme 81.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Asus Rampage IV Formula ATX LGA2011 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk
Case: Corsair 600T White Graphite ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: Corsair Enthusiast 750W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply
Video: AMD Radeon HD7970 3072MB GDDR5 Dual-X OC
CPU - The i7 3820 is an LGA 2011 CPU - you have no reason to be building from LGA2011 unless you want to use a 3930k build (6-core, weaker per core) so you would want a z77 board and a 3570k or 3770k.
RAM, Pretty decent but you wont use half of it unless you are working with raw video etc. I use massive files with x264 all the time and i cant remember ever capping 6gb, make sure you would utilize it
Cooling - Its a closed loop water cooler, probably not the best one cause ive never heard of it. Even if you were overclocking, this would be a bad choice. If you insist on closed loop water, you can get something like the corsair h100i - but low-high end air cooling is almost always the best option.
Case, this is like a $180 case which is again completely pointless if you are not overclocking heavily, it doesnt even seem particularly good
PSU, not sure on the model but you can cut 200-250w off and probably get a better one for cheaper, equal or not much higher price.
If you picked out the 3820 just because it has "more ghz", then you should know that a decently high end overclocked 3770k will outperform it by as much as ~45% and you could probably do that while saving quite a bit of money
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@Mathwel: I don't know! Going 2011 socket is a bit crazy, perhaps. The main difference is the CPU can use 4 channels of memory, instead of dual channel like on the 1155 socket. Does this really help much with rendering? Better save money and go for normal 1155 socket and i7-3770k. Also, if you want to go the luxury route anyways, buy a bigger SSD, for example the 250 GB version of the Samsung 840 you chose.
On February 26 2013 17:04 Cyro wrote:
If you picked out the 3820 just because it has "more ghz", then you should know that a decently high end overclocked 3770k will outperform it by as much as ~45% and you could probably do that while saving quite a bit of money
I remember the 3820 can be overclocked to something like 4.6 GHz or so. The chipset can run the board at 100 MHz BCLK, while running the CPU at a multiplier in certain steps, 125 MHz being the next step after 100. Also, the CPU goes to x40 with turbo, despite not being unlocked, and 40 * 125 MHz would be 5000 MHz.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
I know people take them to like 4.5ghz, but it's not nearly as easy as overclocking a K series CPU and then SB-E is branded 3xxx instead of 2xxx even though it is sandy bridge - so with a high end overclock (anyone spending $125 on just the primary CPU cooler and $150++ on a case either will want one or is wasting a massive massive amount of money) you are talking about whatever clock speed lead you can get and then 8% on top of it for ivy bridge
He's spending $360 on a motherboard, $125 on a CPU cooler, $180 on a case, the question to all of this is why? Im not 100% up to date on stuff but surely you can take a 3770k to 4.5ghz while saving $200 on the motherboard, $60-80 on the cooler and like $50 on the case
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well here r my answers.
im spending lots of money on the MB, im thinking on buying this 3820 ( 2011 ) only for the future path, well atleast im looking at it that way so when ivi-e come out il be a bit ez, yeah the quad chanel sound good too, thats why im getting 4 rams
about the cooler, i was thinking on buying the h100 but is out of stock, so the thermaltake is like the direct competition, why not an air cooler?, cuz i will have problem with the memos ( they arnt low profile )
yeah sooner or later i will be trying to oc, since i want to learn how to, and beside that, where i live is reaaaaaaaaly hot.
hope this clarify some of your questions, anyways if u still think is a bit overkill, or if i should change any part, or even if the 3700k will be better suited for the incoming games etc. i want to hear it :D, since i dont want to scew this up.
Thanks for the answers, srry about my english. hope its not too bad.
bye !
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On February 26 2013 23:33 Mathwel wrote:
well here r my answers.
im spending lots of money on the MB, im thinking on buying this 3820 ( 2011 ) only for the future path, well atleast im looking at it that way so when ivi-e come out il be a bit ez, yeah the quad chanel sound good too, thats why im getting 4 rams
about the cooler, i was thinking on buying the h100 but is out of stock, so the thermaltake is like the direct competition, why not an air cooler?, cuz i will have problem with the memos ( they arnt low profile )
yeah sooner or later i will be trying to oc, since i want to learn how to, and beside that, where i live is reaaaaaaaaly hot.
hope this clarify some of your questions, anyways if u still think is a bit overkill, or if i should change any part, or even if the 3700k will be better suited for the incoming games etc. i want to hear it :D, since i dont want to scew this up.
Thanks for the answers, srry about my english. hope its not too bad.
bye !
There is no such thing as futureproofing. As soon as you buy some piece of technology it immediately becomes outdated. IVB-E will be LGA 2011 but Haswell will be out by the time they introduce IVB-E, and Haswell is going to outperform IVB-E.
Seriously just buy an i5-3570k/i7-3770k and don't be disappointed when the next generation of CPU's don't live up to your expectations, they never do.
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then if i were going back to the i7-3700k
which one of this motherboard will u recommend?
-Asus® M/B Intel Maximus V Formula A/V/L (1155)
-Asus® M/B Intel Sabertooth Z77 A/L/V (1155)
-Gigabyte® M/B Intel Z77X-UD5H A/L/V (1155)
or if u have any other in mind. ( there arnt azrock where i live )
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
Ivy bridge outperforms SB-E in games by quite big margins - the 3820 does not overclock as easily or far as 1155 equivelants (limited to bclk, etc - its not unlocked) and with the 3930k and 3960x (both pretty much identical) being 6-core CPU's, you cant overclock them as far either - you are stuck like 300 or 400mhz below 3770k, which also has about an 8% performance advantage at the same clock speed, so its effectively something like a 15-20% performance advantage per core for the 3770k - a 6-core SB-E CPU is better for rendering and other multithreaded tasks, by a margin of something like 25-30% (math, 4 cores, 20% performance lead per core, thus equal to 4.8 of the weaker cores - the 3930k has 6 - 4.8*1.25 = 6)
So you are looking at a 15-20% singlethreaded performance lead vs a ~30% multithreaded lead, for spending on the LGA2011 platform. At this point, your only motivation for going 6-core should be for whatever rendering you are doing or other tasks, you would not want it for gaming or for livestreaming games (particularly sc2, where the better single threaded performance of the 3770k would keep frames up higher for longer and it's multithreaded performance is enough to pull off a 1920x1080@40fps stream - overclocked well enough, 60fps, just fine)
Haswell will release long before Ivy Bridge-E and will almost certainly destroy it in single threaded performance - you face the same dilemma as comparing the 3930k to 3770k - 6, weaker cores at a much higher price vs 4 stronger ones - only bigger
I dont think it's at any point wise to buy a 3820 on socket LGA2011 so that you can later throw away your $300 CPU for a $580 one - just buy the more expensive one straight out, or dont go with the platform at all. You are not going to get worthwhile upgrades from a 3930k on this platform and buying a CPU that is inferior to the 3770k for $300 plus the extra cost of the motherboard etcetc just for "future proofing" will get you nowhere.
In terms of closed loop water cooling - if you insist on it - i only really heard a lot about the corsair lineup - h100i being best i think - and the Kraken series, i think both are superior to that other one that you linked, at least before you look at replacing fans and messing around with them like a lot of people do with high end coolers
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btw, how much will my electric bill be impacted now that I OC'd from 3.4ghz to 4.2ghz? and will my CPU's lifespan be affected in any significant way? :D because if the changes are radical maybe it's not even worth the moderate performance boost.
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On February 27 2013 01:03 xeo1 wrote:
btw, how much will my electric bill be impacted now that I OC'd from 3.4ghz to 4.2ghz? and will my CPU's lifespan be affected in any significant way? :D because if the changes are radical maybe it's not even worth the moderate performance boost.
Your CPU lifespan won't be affected in any significant way (i.e., it will almost certainly become obsolete before it dies) as long as you keep it a bit under 90c and under 1.3v. After there, longevity will decrease more rapidly.
And your CPU is rated to use about 77W at load on stock speeds and voltages; because of the increased voltage it will likely run something like 90W at load. This is less than the equivalent of changing from a 40w to a 60w lightbulb at your computer desk -- it's not going to make a ton of difference unless you leave your computer on 24/7.
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Thanks alot for the insight about the 3700k
then if im staying with it, which mb will u guys recommend??
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EPT
