We understand that this topic evokes strong feelings. In the interest of maintaining a necessary and productive discussion, we will be taking a strong stance against posters that clearly do not contribute to this aim. Dishonest and bad faith arguments, victim blaming, and attacks on other users, will be strictly moderated. A post which only serves to muddy the waters and dishonestly portray the nature of assault and harassment (and corresponding accusations) is also unwelcome.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Obviously it s realy sad, to see wrong accusations, exactly because of those cases. They are a big minority tho. So the right way would be to give supoosedly victimes the benefit of the doubt andd search for additional information then. Also trying to better the system/ community is also a step in the right direction. Beliving all women doesnt mean, beliving all accusations, no matter what.
I think the appeal to emotion used by folks referencing the Joe situation becomes much less tenable once one considers the incredible numbers of mostly women who never come forward with stories of having been assaulted or raped. Yes, it’s awful that someone’s reputation gets tarnished unjustly, but we are starting from a place of immense widespread injustice in the first place.
This is the point of contention. While no one disagrees with this, one end of the crowd (and honestly probably the general majority) leans towards helping victims from the baseline of status quo (which is currently heavily unfavored for victims/women). This is probably human nature and not malicious. Then the other end of the crowd wants to change the baseline so that the traditionally oppressed victims have a better shot, because historically they're getting slaughtered out there.
Someone's stance on what is fair is more or less based on their stance here. Conversations should probably start here as well, otherwise it's the same old rodeo that we're going to keep seeing.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
I’m unfamiliar with this particular incident.
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that this accuser got a torrent of abuse from some fans of the guy and didn’t think it was worth the hassle pursuing it?
No idea who he is either. Wikipedia says he's a YouTuber ::shrugs:: Nothing's even mentioned in his entry about said accusations or drama, unless this isn't the right person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angry_Joe
Sounds like (and glancing at her twitter) what Wombat suggested more or less to me.
There are the odd occasions I don’t like being correct and this is one of them.
Went doing a bit of browsing, apparently his fans raised 20,000 dollars for him in legal fees.
If that doesn’t demonstrate some of the imbalances in power dynamics at work coming forward I’m not sure what does.
You’ll get shit from fans of any notably large influencer, constantly. Then said influencer who’s probably reasonably wealthy already doesn’t even have to worry about lawyering up hardcore, because there’s a real misguided fear over ‘cancel culture’ and false accusations and your fans will pay for it.
This isn’t to cast aspersions over AngryJoe, just this exemplifies what happens when the accused has considerably more clout than someone like Rapid does.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
I’m unfamiliar with this particular incident.
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that this accuser got a torrent of abuse from some fans of the guy and didn’t think it was worth the hassle pursuing it?
No idea who he is either. Wikipedia says he's a YouTuber ::shrugs:: Nothing's even mentioned in his entry about said accusations or drama, unless this isn't the right person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angry_Joe
Sounds like (and glancing at her twitter) what Wombat suggested more or less to me.
I don't know what to think on this one. I'm a fan of angryjoe so i'm probably biased, but i wish it was easier to find a story about it online that wasn't written by an angryjoe fan because this woman got zero support and was immediately set upon by angryjoe's twitter army, which is a totally unfair reaction.
Yeah you do, you just don't want to because you're a fan (that's not unusual or something you have to be ashamed of if you confront and reconcile it). His appeal to the police is bad enough imo, but you know how I feel about police generally and they're notoriously bad in the US responding to this kind of stuff.
EDIT: I'd also think about what it might mean to hang out in a crowd like we see in her comments or use him as an example like we've seen.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
and whats your point actually? We should all believe them, who cares if 10% of people accused have their life ruined for ZERO reason? If thats your point, you are clearly the idiot and troll here.
You know there is a difference between believing blindly all women, and simply listening to them and waiting to have both sides of the story and/or evidence, right?
Not believing all women just because they posted a touching story doesnt mean we accuse them of being liars. It means we are waiting for both sides/evidence.
Its amazing how this simple, basic concept seems to be too complicated for you. Wonder who is the troll.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
and whats your point actually? We should all believe them, who cares if 10% of people accused have their life ruined for ZERO reason? If thats your point, you are clearly the idiot and troll here.
It's not 10% and if it was it would still be better to believe women, yes. Because 90 is, as it turns out, larger than 10.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
and whats your point actually? We should all believe them, who cares if 10% of people accused have their life ruined for ZERO reason? If thats your point, you are clearly the idiot and troll here.
You know there is a difference between believing blindly all women, and simply listening to them and waiting to have both sides of the story and/or evidence, right?
Not believing all women just because they posted a touching story doesnt mean we accuse them of being liars. It means we are waiting for both sides/evidence.
Its amazing how this simple, basic concept seems to be too complicated for you. Wonder who is the troll.
I believe his point is simply that historically and systemically, things are unfair for victims/women and they're going to lose so they need to be prioritized, even at the cost of the fewer number of wrongly accused. This seems to be the general sentiment I'm getting from others with the same thought process.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
I’m unfamiliar with this particular incident.
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that this accuser got a torrent of abuse from some fans of the guy and didn’t think it was worth the hassle pursuing it?
No idea who he is either. Wikipedia says he's a YouTuber ::shrugs:: Nothing's even mentioned in his entry about said accusations or drama, unless this isn't the right person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angry_Joe
Sounds like (and glancing at her twitter) what Wombat suggested more or less to me.
I don't know what to think on this one. I'm a fan of angryjoe so i'm probably biased, but i wish it was easier to find a story about it online that wasn't written by an angryjoe fan because this woman got zero support and was immediately set upon by angryjoe's twitter army, which is a totally unfair reaction.
Yeah you do, you just don't want to because you're a fan (that's not unusual or something you have to be ashamed of if you confront and reconcile it). His appeal to the police is bad enough imo, but you know how I feel about police generally and they're notoriously bad in the US responding to this kind of stuff.
Yeah I've looked into it further and finally found her original statement and i'm more inclined to take her side having done so. I wish the medium article was still on the internet but its gone. It looks to me like a combination of flirting/alcohol and joe probably stepped over the line. He seemed pretty eager in the twitter DMs ('maybe you can cheer me up later') but like... I dunno. The extent of her allegation is that she felt pressured into sex by him, but they didn't have sex. Maybe he was being predatory. Its definitely possible. Its made much worse by how much power he has as a very famous youtuber.
I will say his statement is written in a very convincing manner. I think that's what got me at first.
EDIT: I'd also think about what it might mean to hang out in a crowd like we see in her comments or use him as an example like we've seen.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
and whats your point actually? We should all believe them, who cares if 10% of people accused have their life ruined for ZERO reason? If thats your point, you are clearly the idiot and troll here.
You know there is a difference between believing blindly all women, and simply listening to them and waiting to have both sides of the story and/or evidence, right?
Not believing all women just because they posted a touching story doesnt mean we accuse them of being liars. It means we are waiting for both sides/evidence.
Its amazing how this simple, basic concept seems to be too complicated for you. Wonder who is the troll.
I believe his point is simply that historically and systemically, things are unfair for victims/women and they're going to lose so they need to be prioritized, even at the cost of the fewer number of wrongly accused. This seems to be the general sentiment I'm getting from others with the same thought process.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Just to clarify further, is this taking the stance that it is better to punish an innocent person than to leave a guilty person unpunished?
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
and whats your point actually? We should all believe them, who cares if 10% of people accused have their life ruined for ZERO reason? If thats your point, you are clearly the idiot and troll here.
You know there is a difference between believing blindly all women, and simply listening to them and waiting to have both sides of the story and/or evidence, right?
Not believing all women just because they posted a touching story doesnt mean we accuse them of being liars. It means we are waiting for both sides/evidence.
Its amazing how this simple, basic concept seems to be too complicated for you. Wonder who is the troll.
I believe his point is simply that historically and systemically, things are unfair for victims/women and they're going to lose so they need to be prioritized, even at the cost of the fewer number of wrongly accused. This seems to be the general sentiment I'm getting from others with the same thought process.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Just to clarify further, is this taking the stance that it is better to punish an innocent person than to leave a guilty person unpunished?
No, it's about recognizing that using pithy rule statements founded on a particular notion of the status quo becomes extremely problematic when the status quo turns out to be something else entirely. That's a foundational notion of the #metoo movement among many others that center on reconsidering the assumptions made regarding common life disputes and conflicts.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
and whats your point actually? We should all believe them, who cares if 10% of people accused have their life ruined for ZERO reason? If thats your point, you are clearly the idiot and troll here.
You know there is a difference between believing blindly all women, and simply listening to them and waiting to have both sides of the story and/or evidence, right?
Not believing all women just because they posted a touching story doesnt mean we accuse them of being liars. It means we are waiting for both sides/evidence.
Its amazing how this simple, basic concept seems to be too complicated for you. Wonder who is the troll.
I believe his point is simply that historically and systemically, things are unfair for victims/women and they're going to lose so they need to be prioritized, even at the cost of the fewer number of wrongly accused. This seems to be the general sentiment I'm getting from others with the same thought process.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Just to clarify further, is this taking the stance that it is better to punish an innocent person than to leave a guilty person unpunished?
I can't answer for them, but my answer is that I'm trying to figure it out. It's clearly not black or white on either end of the argument.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
and whats your point actually? We should all believe them, who cares if 10% of people accused have their life ruined for ZERO reason? If thats your point, you are clearly the idiot and troll here.
It's not 10% and if it was it would still be better to believe women, yes. Because 90 is, as it turns out, larger than 10.
The fact that you are willing to send many innocent people to jail without even caring about evidence or their side of the story speaks volume about how awful of a human being you are.
So basically no one will ever be able to be famous right? I mean, Biden, Trump, Kavanagh, Clinton all got accusations. If I dont like the next presidential candidate, I will just accuse him, so people will all believe me. How can people think like that.....
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
and whats your point actually? We should all believe them, who cares if 10% of people accused have their life ruined for ZERO reason? If thats your point, you are clearly the idiot and troll here.
You know there is a difference between believing blindly all women, and simply listening to them and waiting to have both sides of the story and/or evidence, right?
Not believing all women just because they posted a touching story doesnt mean we accuse them of being liars. It means we are waiting for both sides/evidence.
Its amazing how this simple, basic concept seems to be too complicated for you. Wonder who is the troll.
I believe his point is simply that historically and systemically, things are unfair for victims/women and they're going to lose so they need to be prioritized, even at the cost of the fewer number of wrongly accused. This seems to be the general sentiment I'm getting from others with the same thought process.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I believe thats what they mean, which is absurd at best.
It should never be costing the life of innocent men. Women need to be LISTENED TO, and not dismissed, we should care about their cases. That DOES NOT MEAN that we need to believe them blindly.
Im honestly shocked so many people think its a good idea to send innocent men to jail, because the vast majority is guilty.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
and whats your point actually? We should all believe them, who cares if 10% of people accused have their life ruined for ZERO reason? If thats your point, you are clearly the idiot and troll here.
It's not 10% and if it was it would still be better to believe women, yes. Because 90 is, as it turns out, larger than 10.
The fact that you are willing to send many innocent people to jail without even caring about evidence or their side of the story speaks volume about how awful of a human being you are.
I don't think this is about sending people to jail, and I don't think it's about ignoring evidence.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
and whats your point actually? We should all believe them, who cares if 10% of people accused have their life ruined for ZERO reason? If thats your point, you are clearly the idiot and troll here.
You know there is a difference between believing blindly all women, and simply listening to them and waiting to have both sides of the story and/or evidence, right?
Not believing all women just because they posted a touching story doesnt mean we accuse them of being liars. It means we are waiting for both sides/evidence.
Its amazing how this simple, basic concept seems to be too complicated for you. Wonder who is the troll.
I believe his point is simply that historically and systemically, things are unfair for victims/women and they're going to lose so they need to be prioritized, even at the cost of the fewer number of wrongly accused. This seems to be the general sentiment I'm getting from others with the same thought process.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Just to clarify further, is this taking the stance that it is better to punish an innocent person than to leave a guilty person unpunished?
No. The stance is opposing a systemic problem where abusers are allowed to get away with it because of their position/power and public opinion, and your question is just an oversimplified posited philosophical question which has no roots in the practical problems at hand.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
and whats your point actually? We should all believe them, who cares if 10% of people accused have their life ruined for ZERO reason? If thats your point, you are clearly the idiot and troll here.
You know there is a difference between believing blindly all women, and simply listening to them and waiting to have both sides of the story and/or evidence, right?
Not believing all women just because they posted a touching story doesnt mean we accuse them of being liars. It means we are waiting for both sides/evidence.
Its amazing how this simple, basic concept seems to be too complicated for you. Wonder who is the troll.
I believe his point is simply that historically and systemically, things are unfair for victims/women and they're going to lose so they need to be prioritized, even at the cost of the fewer number of wrongly accused. This seems to be the general sentiment I'm getting from others with the same thought process.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Just to clarify further, is this taking the stance that it is better to punish an innocent person than to leave a guilty person unpunished?
It isn't, but on an unrelated note, all punitive judicial systems take that stance, it's pretty standard.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
The reason the second happens way more than the first is because we have what's called " Due Process. " Without it, any allegation is true, so if you're going to make these allegations you need to provide the proof and evidence, and prove it without a shadow of a doubt to be true, otherwise don't you think we'd have a lot of innocent people in jail?
Would make sense to do it that way, if the problem was so simple.
Yeah, it's very complicated for so many reasons. The current systems we have in place are inadequate to "fairly" address these things. At some level, for any progress to be made, sacrifices must be made. At least until we have better systems in place.
On June 26 2020 23:15 Maruisgoat1994 wrote: What happened to AngryJoe is the PERFECT example of why "Believe all women" is fucking stupid and toxic.
He had to invest in lawyers and have is reputation affected. Then the girl simply says, "oh, maybe he did nothing wrong and he had no bad intention" then she deletes her accusations.
Its sad because not only it affects Joe heavily, but because of bitches like her, real victims lose a lot of credibility.
Yes that sounds awful, so does some one being raped and no one believing her. And the second happens WAY more than the first. I get your a troll who just made this post to be banned, but it is still worth pointing out because we there is still people dumb enough to think you have a point.
and whats your point actually? We should all believe them, who cares if 10% of people accused have their life ruined for ZERO reason? If thats your point, you are clearly the idiot and troll here.
It's not 10% and if it was it would still be better to believe women, yes. Because 90 is, as it turns out, larger than 10.
False accusation//proper accusation stats can not be accurately compiled because counting each case on either side of the ledger is impossible.
For example, my former grade 5 classmate last year alleged the teacher assaulted them. Is this a false accusation? is it true? who knows.
The owner of "Brian's Drum Shop" was accused. The court system isn't pefect. Was this a false accusation or true? again, who knows. He was my drum teacher for 6 years. I don't think he did it. What is my opinion and the opinion of a court worth? not much I don't think. It is impossible to say for certain whether the accusation was true or false. https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2011/09/21/drum_teacher_acquitted_of_fondling_student.html
If someone can eventually come up with a way to accurately classify each accusation we might have some accurate true/false accusation stats. Until then , the stats are inherently flawed because individual cases are uncertain.
Would make sense to do it that way, if the problem was so simple.
Yeah, it's very complicated for so many reasons. The current systems we have in place are inadequate to "fairly" address these things. At some level, for any progress to be made, sacrifices must be made. At least until we have better systems in place.
If it's any consolation to the folks so worried about the accused, often even when charged with crimes and they either plead or are found guilty they still enjoy remarkably inappropriate sentences.
Just some random examples from last month in the US:
Shane Piche admitted to raping a 14-year-old girl who rode the school bus he drove. Michael Wysolovski admitted to keeping a teenage girl in sexual captivity for more than a year. Last Thursday, two separate judges in two separate states ruled neither would be going to prison.
I don't agree with everything said by quoted attorneys in the article but I think this is worth considering (Jock this is also in reference to what I mean by what it says to hang out in the fandom filled with the people in her mentions and a fan of a guy that's doing nothing about it but making it worse):
"The next survivor will see what she went through, facing the perpetrator, having to testify in the same room, having to look at that guy, point out that guy, share the details of what happened in front of a jury of strangers — go through all of that and then get this type of an outcome," Dolce said. "The next survivor sees that and then says, 'Why would I do that?'"
EPT
