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We understand that this topic evokes strong feelings. In the interest of maintaining a necessary and productive discussion, we will be taking a strong stance against posters that clearly do not contribute to this aim. Dishonest and bad faith arguments, victim blaming, and attacks on other users, will be strictly moderated. A post which only serves to muddy the waters and dishonestly portray the nature of assault and harassment (and corresponding accusations) is also unwelcome. |
On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got.
Nope, that's another silly and highly loaded way to de-emphasize the plight of the victim by appealing to the fears of people who have, in actual terms, close to zero chance of ever been falsely accused of anything, not to mention sexual assault specifically. The exact same game of "imagine if this happened to you" can be played with the victim and on that count, the odds are much more likely. I don't send pictures of my genitalia to anyone ever, so the possibility that a group of people on the internet falsely decide I did does not frighten me one bit, nor should it frighten anyone who treats others with the modicum of decency and respect we ought expect from one another as people in the world.
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Still waiting for the mob. Havent seen them.
See lots of good humans upset, see people confused and forming there own opinions.... still no mobs.
If we were a community that listened, some of these things could have been ended years ago.
Be as mad as you want. It is all of our fault.
Now here we are. Please let me know when the mob gets here. So far, we have almost zero people saying the conduct mentioned is acceptable.
The trolls are scared to do more then pick and prod. The main outrage is.... that people said something?
There is no social justice mob on teamliquid.net. There are disparate people who are trying to be good people. That is all. Nobody is creating a deathnote.
We have had a 10 year conversation on the controversial topic about who is a bonjwa. We can have a conversation about this.
And my last punch to the throat to this stupid mob fear idea.....IF ACCUSATIONS RUINED CAREERS HERE.... THEN WHY DIDNT IT RUIN RAPIDS ALREADY?
Where is our list of false accused people in this community.
From 2002 to 2020. How many times have we ruined someone?
Hell, this community allowed smuft and ilnp to run an actual fraud operation here, and steal thousands and defraud Ret of a chance to go to korea. Nobody ever punished. The old gaurd of tl.net protected them.
There is no history of justice in our community, just moderating for maximum tentsize for maximum marketshare. This is a place of businesses.
If a mob shows up fight them.
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Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got.
It’s unlikely to happen to Farvacola given how he comports himself.
False accusations do happen, it would be disingenuous to dismiss them. That said, they’re pretty minuscule in terms of officially investigated reports and are a drop in the ocean if you factor in women who don’t come forward for whatever reason.
We’ve seen it recently even within eSports, so I’m reluctant to light the kindling and immolate x person.
On the other hand Rapid has multiple people who, far as I know don’t know each other saying similar things about his conduct. Which sound credible to me anyway.
I feel there is this misplaced fear that ‘I could be the next person accused by some vengeful lady and everyone would believe her’ that I just don’t think correlates with reality particularly neatly
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On June 25 2020 04:17 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 25 2020 03:59 deacon.frost wrote:On June 25 2020 03:40 Models wrote:On June 25 2020 03:36 deacon.frost wrote:On June 24 2020 22:06 EsportsJohn wrote:Okay. Here we go. I'm going to be posting a wall of text, so forewarning. I've spent a good portion of the last 72 hours reading accounts of sexual harassment across the board, discussing these topics with other people, and throwing my solidarity behind other women. I am biased. I'm going to be very straightforward and probably quite incendiary here because my strong feelings for these scenarios bars me from calling out assholes and gaslighting dipshits in a level-headed and reasonable manner. + Show Spoiler +On June 24 2020 08:04 GGzerG wrote:
I'm sorry but it is a little ridiculous to just make allegations about someone with no proof, regardless of whether or not you have a really heart warming / sad and heart wrenching story, there has to be proof or I will not be joining in this hate towards Rapid. I understand how terrible this is that it happened to people, and I feel for the women that it happened to, but a lot of this no offense can be almost the same as people screaming rape with no proof. Again no offense, but I don't think witch hunting with no proof is a good idea. On June 24 2020 09:07 Pangpootata wrote:
Remember that a basic rule of civilized society is innocent until proven guilty. If it's someone's verbal claim against another, more hard evidence has to be provided before coming to a conclusion. On June 24 2020 08:51 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 08:04 GGzerG wrote:
I'm sorry but it is a little ridiculous to just make allegations about someone with no proof, regardless of whether or not you have a really heart warming / sad and heart wrenching story, there has to be proof or I will not be joining in this hate towards Rapid. I understand how terrible this is that it happened to people, and I feel for the women that it happened to, but a lot of this no offense can be almost the same as people screaming rape with no proof. Again no offense, but I don't think witch hunting with no proof is a good idea. This. it wouldn't be the first time that fake accusations are being made even in this community. 1 Person saying something bad about someone shouldn't warrant a witch-hunt. On June 24 2020 12:45 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
also, people just believing all of these claims with no evidence. Hilarious
User was banned for this post. On June 24 2020 19:17 col_jung wrote:
No doubt real abuse is terrifying, but so is how easy it is to destroy someone's reputation on the internet without providing any proof.
If you want to publicly call out bad behaviour, that's OK. If you're going to do it without an inch of proof, then I'm not cool with that. On June 24 2020 22:11 linestein wrote:[LEGALITY]The Presumption of InnocenceThe presumption of innocence is a tenet of the justice system in the best countries around the world. It is important to remember that these identities are not all established. Kaitlyn, for instance, is a well-established identity. But not each identity in this case is, in fact, well-established. This shit is absolutely DISGUSTING. If you are on the sidelines yelling "but what about presumption of innocence??", especially AT the victims, you need to fuck the fuck off and stay out of the discussion entirely. The whole idea that women who put their reputation and livelihood on the line need to show empiric proof of how they were treated in a clearly unequal relationship is an incredibly privileged and ignorant mindset. You are awfully quick to jump on protecting the feelings of the accused while immediately ignoring the humanity of the accuser, and that makes you just as culpable for the silent abuse of women as the perpetrators themselves. Opposing women speaking their truths is the same as shaming them into silence and perpetuating an atmosphere of victim blaming. This is not even getting into the fact that whatever happened, the feelings of the victim are valid and real, and that proving rape or sexual misconduct is a fairly ambiguous and often impossible task. Often, the official channels are ineffective and/or reinforce the idea that women should remain silent and be ignored, and sometimes the official channels don't exist at all. Imagine reporting sexual harassment to someone who believes you're just flirting badly. On June 24 2020 17:47 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 17:42 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 24 2020 17:41 juvenal wrote:On June 24 2020 17:35 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 24 2020 17:34 juvenal wrote:On June 24 2020 17:32 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 24 2020 17:30 juvenal wrote:On June 24 2020 17:27 lechatnoir wrote:
The justice system isn't very good to victims of sexual assaults/harassment/abuse in most countries for complicated reasons. Everyone demanding court level proof should educate themselves about just how hard it is for the vast majority of victims to get justice or even get their case heard and not dismissed.
That's the main reason why speaking out and not getting dismissed immediately is so important. If the general public doesn't listen to victims neither will the law.
Thank you to everyone speaking up. You are all brave. ok mate, how about this: I'll speak up right now and tell everyone what happened between you and me the other night. I gave no consent whatsoever, yet you did what you did. How can you post of this forum after that? How? There, praise my bravery and don't you dare dismissing it immediately. What would you suggest someone does if they are sexually harassed when no-one else is around? go to police? Collect biological evidence? There absolutely should not be any action if you don't have the evidence. Otherwise I would be asking you the same: what do you suggest someone does if they get accused of rape which happened years ago with literally zero evidence to back it up? Go public so the victim can have some effect on whether or not rapist carries on raping people. your problem is you're automatically assuming the victim is really the victim and the rape happened. Once again I refer you to this: On June 24 2020 09:07 geokilla wrote:
HenryG of CS:GO got accused of being a rapist and luckily for him, if he didn't have saved conversations and images, his life would forever be ruined. Unfortunately for him, the damage is done and the woman that accused of being raped will have little to no blow back whatsoever.
Imagine if he hadn't had the screenshots. His career would end because of a deranged person's false accusations. Don't assume anything without proof. I understand this. It is a dilemma with two sides and nothing will make both sides happy. When you look at the whole situation I prefer to side with those speaking out. Here's the thing about speaking out: One guy could have sexually harassed hundreds, or thousands of women, and could develop later on into a rapist. If those hundreds of women don't feel supported in speaking out, these people will continue doing what they are doing, and it only takes the first victim to speak and then the others come forward. This is a pattern that has been seen with many high profile rape/harassment/sexual assault cases. we live in the social media age. The act of speaking up itself is where the irreparable damage happens. Rapid is already done for. So imo if you don't have the evidence, sorry, you don't get to speak up AND name the person at the same time. That's just libel. On June 24 2020 17:53 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 17:50 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 24 2020 17:47 juvenal wrote:On June 24 2020 17:42 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 24 2020 17:41 juvenal wrote:On June 24 2020 17:35 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 24 2020 17:34 juvenal wrote:On June 24 2020 17:32 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 24 2020 17:30 juvenal wrote:On June 24 2020 17:27 lechatnoir wrote:
The justice system isn't very good to victims of sexual assaults/harassment/abuse in most countries for complicated reasons. Everyone demanding court level proof should educate themselves about just how hard it is for the vast majority of victims to get justice or even get their case heard and not dismissed.
That's the main reason why speaking out and not getting dismissed immediately is so important. If the general public doesn't listen to victims neither will the law.
Thank you to everyone speaking up. You are all brave. ok mate, how about this: I'll speak up right now and tell everyone what happened between you and me the other night. I gave no consent whatsoever, yet you did what you did. How can you post of this forum after that? How? There, praise my bravery and don't you dare dismissing it immediately. What would you suggest someone does if they are sexually harassed when no-one else is around? go to police? Collect biological evidence? There absolutely should not be any action if you don't have the evidence. Otherwise I would be asking you the same: what do you suggest someone does if they get accused of rape which happened years ago with literally zero evidence to back it up? Go public so the victim can have some effect on whether or not rapist carries on raping people. your problem is you're automatically assuming the victim is really the victim and the rape happened. Once again I refer you to this: On June 24 2020 09:07 geokilla wrote:HenryG of CS:GO got accused of being a rapist and luckily for him, if he didn't have saved conversations and images, his life would forever be ruined. Unfortunately for him, the damage is done and the woman that accused of being raped will have little to no blow back whatsoever. https://twitter.com/HenryGcsgo/status/1275519877441298434 Imagine if he hadn't had the screenshots. His career would end because of a deranged person's false accusations. Don't assume anything without proof. I understand this. It is a dilemma with two sides and nothing will make both sides happy. When you look at the whole situation I prefer to side with those speaking out. Here's the thing about speaking out: One guy could have sexually harassed hundreds, or thousands of women, and could develop later on into a rapist. If those hundreds of women don't feel supported in speaking out, these people will continue doing what they are doing, and it only takes the first victim to speak and then the others come forward. This is a pattern that has been seen with many high profile rape/harassment/sexual assault cases. we live in the social media age. The act of speaking up itself is where the irreparable damage happens. Rapid is already done for. So imo if you don't have the evidence, sorry, you don't get to speak up AND name the person at the same time. That's just libel. false accusation victims, of which there are far, far fewer.. what's your source on that? If you demonstrated that 95% of the accusations are real I maybe would've agreed that the 5% need to take the hit to straighten things out. But where's that data then? On June 24 2020 18:25 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 18:17 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 24 2020 18:16 juvenal wrote:On June 24 2020 18:13 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 24 2020 18:10 juvenal wrote:On June 24 2020 18:00 Jockmcplop wrote:
It should be common knowledge. Are you suggesting that more people make up stories of sexual crime than perpetrate the crimes and get away with it?
wtf? No it absolutely shouldn't. I'm not suggesting anything, it's you who is suggesting the false accusations make up a negligible amount. Which is why I'm asking for some sources. On June 24 2020 18:00 Jockmcplop wrote:https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/1996/96sec2.pdfThe closest I can get to a source is the FBI, who talk about 1996 'unfounded' rape allegations, which they put at 8% (compared to 2% with other crimes). So unfounded allegations are 4 times more common with rape than any other case and they are still less than 10%. And that ignores rapes that were committed and never reported, and the same document suggests that only 35% of rapes are reported, so if you include all rapes, the number that were investigated and found to be unfounded would be about 2.7%. the FBI data has nothing to do with issue at hand. They look at crimes "reported to law enforcement". You falsely report a rape, you can do jail time. What we here discuss is damn posts on social media. No one is going to jail for that, the reputational damage however can be huge. How do you expect me to have statistics about sexual crime reported on social media but not to the police? then why do you say it's common knowledge? How can you know? You're assuming a hell lot when you say the stories must be true because why not. When did I say the stories must be true? I never said anything about the truth of any story, i'm saying we should hear victims out because otherwise we are doing a disservice to future victims of the same crimes, as well as telling a victim that they should just deal with it themselves and keep it 'our little secret', which is clearly bad. let everyone tell their stories. Just don't name people when you don't have any proof. It's as simple as that. We're repeating ourselves, I've already said all I wanted to say. Rapid's been accused of harassing a bunch of girls. His reputation has already been destroyed. This has been done by "hearing victims out", like you suggest, without requiring any proof. That's not alright. @juvenal What's it like to be a complete piece of garbage? I see you there pretending to play devil's advocate but actually just straight up spreading your shit misogynistic mentality. You start by saying that no one should speak up and then after being bombarded with (logical and level-headed) pushback, you try to distract with forcing people to prove obscure numbers and invent strawman arguments before defaulting to the old tactic of pretending that you never said that people shouldn't share and shifting the blame back onto your debate opponents for not understanding what you said. I've seen these tricks used time and time again; it's an abusive behavior and commonly manifests itself in shitposter trolls, racists, and misogynists. Women deserve to be heard. Women deserve to name names. Proof is not a requirement for sharing your perspective. Fuck off. On June 24 2020 18:31 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 18:29 Heartland wrote:On June 24 2020 18:25 juvenal wrote:On June 24 2020 18:17 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 24 2020 18:16 juvenal wrote:On June 24 2020 18:13 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 24 2020 18:10 juvenal wrote:On June 24 2020 18:00 Jockmcplop wrote:
It should be common knowledge. Are you suggesting that more people make up stories of sexual crime than perpetrate the crimes and get away with it?
wtf? No it absolutely shouldn't. I'm not suggesting anything, it's you who is suggesting the false accusations make up a negligible amount. Which is why I'm asking for some sources. On June 24 2020 18:00 Jockmcplop wrote:https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/1996/96sec2.pdfThe closest I can get to a source is the FBI, who talk about 1996 'unfounded' rape allegations, which they put at 8% (compared to 2% with other crimes). So unfounded allegations are 4 times more common with rape than any other case and they are still less than 10%. And that ignores rapes that were committed and never reported, and the same document suggests that only 35% of rapes are reported, so if you include all rapes, the number that were investigated and found to be unfounded would be about 2.7%. the FBI data has nothing to do with issue at hand. They look at crimes "reported to law enforcement". You falsely report a rape, you can do jail time. What we here discuss is damn posts on social media. No one is going to jail for that, the reputational damage however can be huge. How do you expect me to have statistics about sexual crime reported on social media but not to the police? then why do you say it's common knowledge? How can you know? You're assuming a hell lot when you say the stories must be true because why not. When did I say the stories must be true? I never said anything about the truth of any story, i'm saying we should hear victims out because otherwise we are doing a disservice to future victims of the same crimes, as well as telling a victim that they should just deal with it themselves and keep it 'our little secret', which is clearly bad. let everyone tell their stories. Just don't name people when you don't have any proof. It's as simple as that. We're repeating ourselves, I've already said all I wanted to say. Rapid's been accused of harassing a bunch of girls. His reputation has already been destroyed. This has been done by "hearing victims out", like you suggest, without requiring any proof. That's not alright. What you're suggesting has meant that people haven't spoken out and the problems have persisted. The current option is treated as a public lynch though. People do search other people before employment and any public stain is a big issue. There has to be channels to do this and social media isn't the right place. Which is the prime issue. Currently Rapid is in serious shit business wise. On June 24 2020 17:30 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 13:55 TheEmulator wrote:On June 24 2020 12:45 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
also, people just believing all of these claims with no evidence. Hilarious
User was banned for this post. That's not necessarily the case. People are giving women the benefit of doubt and allowing their stories to be heard because for so long they haven't been. The onus should be on the accused to then come forward, either to apologize and admit to what they did or provide legitimate evidence that disproves it all. It's not on the audience to make that call on either case. In 99% of cases coming forward it usually tends to be true anyway. edit: also why did I just respond to someone that is banned. I don't do drugs but I might be on something right now. Is there actually any valid study that most of these stories are true and valid? No offense, but everyone can post on social media anything they want, see some prominent posters(the best example would be the current US president) If you were not an admin replying to a banned post I would ignore, but this way I wanna know where this comes from. (I expect the 99 % being exaggeration thus I used the term majority) This can hurt people lives seriously, so some caution needs to be taken. Also I am surprised there's no channel to solve this, considering we are talking about professional e-sports/streamers. I would expect at least Twitch and KeSPA had some anonymous channel to report this and get this solved. @deacon.frost While a bit less of a shitlord, you should be ashamed to be protecting the accused. As I said earlier, opposing the voice of women is the same as victimizing them the same way the perpetrator did. If you do not stand up to misogyny and misconduct, you are allowing it and complicit to the crime. It shouldn't matter what the exact number of people who are falsely accused is; the fact that there are any victims at all, much less a majority, should be reason enough for you to take these stories VERY seriously and throw solidarity and love behind them rather than brush them under the rug and criticize them as being "dangerous". No one should be made to feel ashamed of their body or their relationships with other people.It should break your fucking heart that the commonality between every one of these stories is not the conduct but the way it made these women ashamed in some way and threw blame on them. + Show Spoiler +On June 24 2020 19:08 fededevi wrote:
While I completely support speaking up by anyone and I seriously doubt any of the shared stories are completely made up they have to be taken as what they are. Stories written by someone on the internet.
Unless you have serious, serious proof you should not make the names of the involved people public.. I mean you can.. but I think it is a very bad thing to do. And make it feels more like revenge than justice.
If there is a crime it should be prosecuted in the court.
If you know that someone is an asshole by your own experience, do your choice, exclude him/her from your life or don't if you choose so.
If you think the legal system does not work properly or does not cover certain behaviors properly then you should ask/discuss/protest do whatever to change that.
This is not a problem without solution, the solution is to provide people with channels to denounce improper behavior, change the legal system to make it easier for victims to denounce those behaviors or make them illegal or punishable.
The solution is not to use twitter as a public court.
The solution is not to drop the "presumption of innocence" principle.
At least that is what I think.
Also I want to add that these stories, even anonymous ones, have a lot of intrinsic value and we should use them to correct and adjust our behaviors rather than use them to judge and punish the involved people, especially when little to no evidence is provided.
Hell! This should be the final objective, to reduce this kind of behavior, not to have retribution.
Sorry for my english. I feel less strongly about this comment, but I really want to address the faux concept of "speak your truth, but don't name names". You need to understand that abusive behavior and sexual misconduct does more than just offend people. In the cases of these women, it robs them of their power and their agency. They are completely at the mercy of their oppressor for as long as they remain silent and suffering, and the only way to regain their agency and reclaim their power is by speaking out against the terrible acts committed against them and naming those responsible for it, especially if they are in a position of public influence and power. It is not a retribution so much as a protection for others who can and will fall victim to the same sort of abuse if nothing is ever done to bring these situations to light. Women shouldn't need to be afraid to tell a man to stop kissing them for fear that their career or their life might be ruined. Women shouldn't need to fear for their life when someone offers to take them home and doesn't stop following them when turned down. We've normalized these behaviors and then blamed women for bravely speaking up after they've spent months or years trying to untangle the trauma of these events, and it needs to stop. It needs to fucking stop. EDIT: Adding eon to the wall of shame, but he is redeemed On June 24 2020 21:45 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 21:38 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 21:33 fededevi wrote:On June 24 2020 21:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 21:18 fededevi wrote: However, since *real* rape/harassment allegations supposedly outnumber false allegations by at least a factor of ten, one issue is larger and far more systemic than the other. There is a reason one is more common than the other. Because there is the burden of proof for the accuser. What do you think will happen when you remove it? What constitutes meeting the burden of proof for confirming allegations of harassment or assault, in your opinion? I don't know, but usually modern societies have a 3 different separate systems dedicated to this. One defines what is harassment and what is required to 'prove it', one is dedicated to judge each case based on the aforementioned rules and one is dedicated to apply the eventual punishment. I'm just saying using the twitter mob for all 3 processes is not a good idea. What do you mean by "the twitter mob" for assessing (or not assessing) allegations? I meet Rapid in Korea and he is a really nice guy.always ready to help. Always motivated. Is hard for me to believe that all these girls having the exact same coversation via dms and not a single one has proof.Honestly what it looks like to me is some atention seeking. Even the girl that allegates the situation in real life said she casted with him years later.all these stories are odd. On June 24 2020 22:05 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
But your are jumping straight Rapid is guilty.Did u even read the tweets? Cuz one girl is saying it happened to her in offline event.then she casted with him years later.she said with google skills u can find pictures etc.Then do u have couple of girls saying the exact same thing happened to them via DMs but hey sorry not proof.isnt that really convienent? On June 24 2020 22:07 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Let me put it straight im not defending sexual harass abuse.f*ck that people.and if thats the case with Rapid fuck him too.But im not covinced with what we do have now. On June 24 2020 22:50 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
DarkPlasmaBall thanks for the link.Now i can see why you are so straight with the situation.Take in mind my experience with Rapid always been the guy that helps the Broodwar scene and when i was in Korea he was extremely helpful to me.And never showed any weirdness honestly.So i admit i started my post with a deny. Go fuck yourself. Victim blaming is not okay. Thank you for admitting your denial. I still think we should consider the issue of jumping on board the belief that several women conspired to get Rapid into trouble as your first response to a sexual misconduct allegation as troubling, though. We need to do better about, at the very least, sympathizing with those who speak out and appreciate their struggle before we jump to conclusions about who is right or wrong. EDIT: Adding Spike to the wall of shame. On June 24 2020 22:14 True_Spike wrote:
I'm shocked that for so many people a simple accusation is enough to warrant action against the accused, with no proof whatsoever.
Some of these stories are indeed troubling and, if true, must have made the person in question very uncomfortable; no person should conduct himself or herself this way; At the same time, from my perspective, the only sensible course of action when something of this nature happens to you is to go to the police and take actual action, preferably the moment it happened.
That, however, requires proof, time and effort on the part of the accuser, on top of potential legal repercussions if the accusations turn out to be fabricated. A post on social media does not.
I think the importance of educating (young) women on how to react in such situations (and afterwards) should be the key takeaway here, not the silly idea that women never lie about sexual harassment. It's not the same as not believing them - for the time being I believe every single person that came forward, but at the same time I acknowledge it might change based on the response of the accused or, preferably, a proper legal process.
I understand it must be hard for victims of sexual abuse to come forward for a multitude of reasons (expecially actual serious, life-changing and super damaging sexual abuse cases, not a guy being a complete fucking inappropriate moron and sending a dick pick), but perpetuating the idea that a person's word alone is enough to downright socially convict someone is atrocious.
Even if "most cases end up being true", you can't just assume all of them are, that's not how the world works. Would you sentence a man to die for a crime he was accused of based on testimony alone? In a normal country that simply cannot happen and for good reason. While death is not in question here, for many people their entire livelihoods are at stake here.
Go fuck yourself. Victim blaming is not okay. How dare you suggest that women need to be educated how to be properly sexual abused? First of all, if i could i would have reported you, this is as toxic post as it can get. If you cannot sustain a different opinion without attacking other persons, what are you if I am a shitlord? 2nd - What is wrong with you? attacking others for respecting the fact that false accusations are ruining lives of multiple people and that somebody dares to stand behind a person who's just been accused without any proof whatsover. How dare of us to respect one of the pilars the western society says it stands on(innocent until proven guilty, although doesn't work all the time) Seriously, I'm not gonna sit here and watch Rapid being crucified for some social media posts just because some people said so. Especially when some claim to receive DMs and don't post them, that's totally OK. You realize Rapid's silence speaks volumes right? And hes not being crucified JUST over his social media harassment, but also his casting. Denying never helped when the mob is already there and angry. FFS, almost everyone in the prison is denying their crime(and mind you, there are innocent people there, not many, but they exist). Look, it doesn't look good for him, but I just wan't some restraint. He may have done it, he may have not, I have no idea, but I just can't stand aside when the mobs wants the witch. On June 25 2020 03:57 dbRic1203 wrote:On June 25 2020 03:36 deacon.frost wrote:
Seriously, I'm not gonna sit here and watch Rapid being crucified for some social media posts just because some people said so. Especially when some claim to receive DMs and don't post them, that's totally OK.
When 3 statments from victimes don t convince you, what will? If Maryke gets a few Players from Team Serbia and Team South Africa in, are those more reliable than her? Or is that sismissed as well, because they would just help her cause and would lie just like her? At least a picture of some of the DMs? Look, I am not saying he hasn't done it, I am saying let's step back and wait for a while before burning the man's career and personal life. Aren't we supposed to be civilized about this? Doesn't look to me. On June 25 2020 03:42 farvacola wrote:
He’s also not being crucified in any colloquial sense of the term, that’s deliberately obtuse hyperbole that fits neatly in the pattern of placing all of onus on victims and none on the accused. Please use more stupid terms, I'm a shitlord as a TL writer said and more importantly an idiot who doesn't speak English at such a high level. Thanks! The rest i posted above. What mob? Outside of those who are engaged in constant deflections from the issue the common consensus seems to be that ‘these seem like credible accusations that need to be answered’ over and above ‘hang Rapid he’s a monster’ Maybe I’m misreading the room but that’s my particular stance anyway. While #BelieveWomen is a popular hashtag, really what it means is ‘take our concerns seriously’ rather than just dropping any critical faculties whatsoever and I feel is TLers have been doing the former for the most part. Don't know, maybe I'm misreading the stuff, but to me it seems plenty already have decided he has done that and they already have their assesment done and don't care what/if Rapid has to say into this. Maybe mob isn't the best of terms, see above, and some previous posts and posts before them.
For me, the problem is that many people supporting Rapid's innocence have either explicitly said or otherwise implied that if Rapid comes forward and claims he did none of those charges, then we end this whole conversation in a draw, with both sides (the self-proclaimed victims and Rapid) ending in an equal, neutral stalemate, and we all move on.
That's patently absurd, as that's not a stalemate; that's a huge win for Rapid. The reality of the situation is that Rapid would not only need to deny all of those charges, but somehow demonstrate that the multiple accusers who are corroborating these stories are all liars who have some sort of serious vendetta against him, to the point that they've colluded to create this huge conspiracy of character assassination. And it's far, far, far more likely, based on what we know about Rapid personally and about abuse allegations in general, that this whole thing isn't just fabricated.
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On June 25 2020 04:33 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. It’s unlikely to happen to Farvacola given how he comports himself. False accusations do happen, it would be disingenuous to dismiss them. That said, they’re pretty minuscule in terms of officially investigated reports and are a drop in the ocean if you factor in women who don’t come forward for whatever reason. We’ve seen it recently even within eSports, so I’m reluctant to light the kindling and immolate x person. On the other hand Rapid has multiple people who, far as I know don’t know each other saying similar things about his conduct. Which sound credible to me anyway. I feel there is this misplaced fear that ‘I could be the next person accused by some vengeful lady and everyone would believe her’ that I just don’t think correlates with reality particularly neatly
This is a way more diplomatic way to express what I intended to convey, so thanks for that 
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On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got.
Keep in mind that's bullshit. He absolutely has had a chance to defend himself. He hasn't yet. He doesn't have to if he doesn't want to, or he could decide to defend himself in a few days or weeks if he wants to, but let's not pretend that he hasn't been informed of all these allegations yet.
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On June 25 2020 04:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. Keep in mind that's bullshit. He absolutely has had a chance to defend himself. He hasn't yet. He doesn't have to if he doesn't want to, or he could decide to defend himself in a few days or weeks if he wants to, but let's not pretend that he hasn't been informed of all these allegations yet.
He specifically closed his Twitter dm's after the accusations came out. So I assume he saw them.
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I'm not judging the act itself, I'm saying the "didn't keep the genitalia to himself" is intentionally misleading use of language. Also, I don't know under which jurisdiction it would fall, but the age of consent in China, where the events unfolded, is 14. In most of the US it's 16 or 17.
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On June 25 2020 00:44 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 00:15 Ronin2011 wrote:
Am I getting something wrong out of the Rapid situation?
The girl that said those things about him, didn't tell him once to stop when he send her dikpix, but instead she answered back to all the things concerned by Reid.
And then when, he told her he masturbated for her, she felt insulted and blocked him.
Should Pamela Anderson feel sexually abused that I had masturbated for her, me and some million more men? Pamela Anderson intentionally puts out material for people to get off to. That was literally her career for many years. The girl in rapids situation never asked for any of this. She also shut him down immediately after the dick pic.
Uhhmm no? You didn't read the story correct. Rapid supposedly send her pix of his dick and she answered back about his size. It was only after he said he masturbated that she blocked him...
User was temp banned for this post.
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On June 25 2020 00:48 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 00:43 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
The world has gone mad with sexual abuse, black lives matter and other shit The world was always mad. We're just waking up to it.
You mean u're actually fallin for the newer traps since u have no real ethics and values, nor critical thinking.
f.e. You would never understand that the free king-kong story was a full CIA black op.
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On June 25 2020 04:36 serendipitous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. Keep in mind that's bullshit. He absolutely has had a chance to defend himself. He hasn't yet. He doesn't have to if he doesn't want to, or he could decide to defend himself in a few days or weeks if he wants to, but let's not pretend that he hasn't been informed of all these allegations yet. He specifically closed his Twitter dm's after the accusations came out. So I assume he saw them.
Thank you for sharing that information
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Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On June 25 2020 04:36 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. It’s unlikely to happen to Farvacola given how he comports himself. False accusations do happen, it would be disingenuous to dismiss them. That said, they’re pretty minuscule in terms of officially investigated reports and are a drop in the ocean if you factor in women who don’t come forward for whatever reason. We’ve seen it recently even within eSports, so I’m reluctant to light the kindling and immolate x person. On the other hand Rapid has multiple people who, far as I know don’t know each other saying similar things about his conduct. Which sound credible to me anyway. I feel there is this misplaced fear that ‘I could be the next person accused by some vengeful lady and everyone would believe her’ that I just don’t think correlates with reality particularly neatly This is a way more diplomatic way to express what I intended to convey, so thanks for that
Me being more diplomatic than you feels like a strange inversion of things
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On June 25 2020 04:32 AttackZerg wrote:
Hell, this community allowed smuft and ilnp to run an actual fraud operation here, and steal thousands and defraud Ret of a chance to go to korea. Nobody ever punished. The old gaurd of tl.net protected them.
wait, what?
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On June 25 2020 04:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. Keep in mind that's bullshit. He absolutely has had a chance to defend himself. He hasn't yet.
yeah, how many seconds needs to pass for you to consider it a "chance" to defend? It takes time to phrase everything carefully and not make the matters even worse for yourself. Took HenryG 2 days to post his statement. Have some fucking patients, you lot.
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On June 25 2020 04:42 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. Keep in mind that's bullshit. He absolutely has had a chance to defend himself. He hasn't yet. yeah, how many seconds needs to pass for you to consider it a "chance" to defend? It takes time to phrase everything carefully and not make the matters even worse for yourself. Took HenryG 2 days to post his statement. Have some fucking patients, you lot.
Patience* And he already did admit to it, so you can chill
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On June 25 2020 04:42 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. Keep in mind that's bullshit. He absolutely has had a chance to defend himself. He hasn't yet. yeah, how many seconds needs to pass for you to consider it a "chance" to defend? It takes time to phrase everything carefully and not make the matters even worse for yourself. Took HenryG 2 days to post his statement. Have some fucking patients, you lot.
You know it's been 2 days already, right? The OP shows that they were posted 2 days ago. Every day that passes makes him look worse and worse, but the content is what matters.
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On June 25 2020 04:43 Models wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:42 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. Keep in mind that's bullshit. He absolutely has had a chance to defend himself. He hasn't yet. yeah, how many seconds needs to pass for you to consider it a "chance" to defend? It takes time to phrase everything carefully and not make the matters even worse for yourself. Took HenryG 2 days to post his statement. Have some fucking patients, you lot. Patience* And he already did admit to it, so you can chill
Which parts did Rapid respond to/ admit to?
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On June 25 2020 04:32 AttackZerg wrote:
There is no social justice mob on teamliquid.net. There are disparate people who are trying to be good people. That is all.
I might be willing to agree with that if I was in a generous mood.
But instead I'm feeling cynical, thanks to trawling through this particular controversy and adjacent ones for a few hours, and so I'm seeing a whole lot people forming very strong opinions based on little and then claiming moral superiority with it.
That of course doesn't make this in any way a peculiar case. It just means that this is a serious discussion on an internet forum - when did that ever result in anything worthwhile?
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On June 25 2020 04:32 AttackZerg wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Still waiting for the mob. Havent seen them.
See lots of good humans upset, see people confused and forming there own opinions.... still no mobs.
If we were a community that listened, some of these things could have been ended years ago.
Be as mad as you want. It is all of our fault.
Now here we are. Please let me know when the mob gets here. So far, we have almost zero people saying the conduct mentioned is acceptable.
The trolls are scared to do more then pick and prod. The main outrage is.... that people said something?
There is no social justice mob on teamliquid.net. There are disparate people who are trying to be good people. That is all. Nobody is creating a deathnote.
We have had a 10 year conversation on the controversial topic about who is a bonjwa. We can have a conversation about this. And my last punch to the throat to this stupid mob fear idea.....IF ACCUSATIONS RUINED CAREERS HERE.... THEN WHY DIDNT IT RUIN RAPIDS ALREADY? + Show Spoiler +Where is our list of false accused people in this community.
From 2002 to 2020. How many times have we ruined someone?
Hell, this community allowed smuft and ilnp to run an actual fraud operation here, and steal thousands and defraud Ret of a chance to go to korea. Nobody ever punished. The old gaurd of tl.net protected them.
There is no history of justice in our community, just moderating for maximum tentsize for maximum marketshare. This is a place of businesses.
If a mob shows up fight them.
It usually takes some time in case the person is a reliable employee/contractor.
Edit> also we may consider how e-sport look at such things considering the Avilo case, which makes me wonder if anything happens at all. Fuck 
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On June 25 2020 04:46 SootShade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:32 AttackZerg wrote:
There is no social justice mob on teamliquid.net. There are disparate people who are trying to be good people. That is all. I might be willing to agree with that if I was in a generous mood. But instead I'm feeling cynical, thanks to trawling through this particular controversy and adjacent ones for a few hours, and so I'm seeing a whole lot people forming very strong opinions based on little and then claiming moral superiority with it. That of course doesn't make this in any way a peculiar case. It just means that this is a serious discussion on an internet forum - when did that ever result in anything worthwhile?
I'm not sure what your definition of "worthwhile" is, but plenty of gamers have lost sponsorships and been fired from teams for posts they made on social media and/or other posts outing them, so I think it's safe to say that quite a few lives have been changed. And that's good; accountability is important.
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