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We understand that this topic evokes strong feelings. In the interest of maintaining a necessary and productive discussion, we will be taking a strong stance against posters that clearly do not contribute to this aim. Dishonest and bad faith arguments, victim blaming, and attacks on other users, will be strictly moderated. A post which only serves to muddy the waters and dishonestly portray the nature of assault and harassment (and corresponding accusations) is also unwelcome. |
Northern Ireland27280 Posts
On June 25 2020 04:46 SootShade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:32 AttackZerg wrote:
There is no social justice mob on teamliquid.net. There are disparate people who are trying to be good people. That is all. I might be willing to agree with that if I was in a generous mood. But instead I'm feeling cynical, thanks to trawling through this particular controversy and adjacent ones for a few hours, and so I'm seeing a whole lot people forming very strong opinions based on little and then claiming moral superiority with it. That of course doesn't make this in any way a peculiar case. It just means that this is a serious discussion on an internet forum - when did that ever result in anything worthwhile?
Why wouldn’t it?
Years ago I held certain views I don’t, and by virtue of ignoring vast swathes of the internet it’s been voices in TL general that have mostly convinced me to evolve my views and my personal conduct.
It might not change the world overnight sure, one person who is convinced to behave in a better way, or be more empathetic towards other people is still a net gain
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On June 25 2020 04:30 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. I don't send pictures of my genitalia to anyone ever, so the possibility that a group of people on the internet falsely decide I did does not frighten me one bit, nor should it frighten anyone who treats others with the modicum of decency and respect we ought expect from one another as people in the world.
lot's of big words, no substance. You literally asked "what are we waiting for" before hearing the second party. That's as stupid as it gets.
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Northern Ireland27280 Posts
On June 25 2020 04:51 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:30 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. I don't send pictures of my genitalia to anyone ever, so the possibility that a group of people on the internet falsely decide I did does not frighten me one bit, nor should it frighten anyone who treats others with the modicum of decency and respect we ought expect from one another as people in the world. lot's of big words, no substance. You literally asked "what are we waiting for" before hearing the second party. That's as stupid as it gets.
What are you waiting for? A statement from the accused saying he’s not a creep and if that’s delivered it’s just a 50/50 he said she said?
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On June 25 2020 04:46 SootShade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:32 AttackZerg wrote:
There is no social justice mob on teamliquid.net. There are disparate people who are trying to be good people. That is all. I might be willing to agree with that if I was in a generous mood. But instead I'm feeling cynical, thanks to trawling through this particular controversy and adjacent ones for a few hours, and so I'm seeing a whole lot people forming very strong opinions based on little and then claiming moral superiority with it. That of course doesn't make this in any way a peculiar case. It just means that this is a serious discussion on an internet forum - when did that ever result in anything worthwhile?
It is impossible to overcome your objection.
If you believe nothing good can come from these conversations and you don't believe in the medium of expression and community ... then I can totally understand your perspective.
All I can say, is that I am hopeful. But, you may be right.
I still think it is worth trying and failing then not trying at all.
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On June 25 2020 04:50 Wombat_NI wrote:
It might not change the world overnight sure, one person who is convinced to behave in a better way, or be more empathetic towards other people is still a net gain
I don't see the amount of genuine empathy shown in any way out weighing the vast quantities of moralizing and spiteful accusations that arise every time subjects like this are broached. And this thread is a fine example of the trend.
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On June 25 2020 04:43 Models wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:42 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. Keep in mind that's bullshit. He absolutely has had a chance to defend himself. He hasn't yet. yeah, how many seconds needs to pass for you to consider it a "chance" to defend? It takes time to phrase everything carefully and not make the matters even worse for yourself. Took HenryG 2 days to post his statement. Have some fucking patients, you lot. Patience*
Very nice reading skills, very relevant to the discussion. That's a new word in my vocabulary, thank you. Now wouldn you mind posting the link to the rapid's confession you speak of. Oh, you don't have it? Cause it didn't happen? You've been acting like a smartass this whole time. I don't like you.
User was warned for this post
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I pmed him about it. I didnt mean to derail the convo, I kind of thought it was still common knowledge.
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On June 25 2020 04:56 SootShade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:50 Wombat_NI wrote:
It might not change the world overnight sure, one person who is convinced to behave in a better way, or be more empathetic towards other people is still a net gain I don't see the amount of genuine empathy shown in any way out weighing the vast quantities of moralizing and spiteful accusations that arise every time subjects like this are broached. And this thread is a fine example of the trend.
Overall this thread has been decent. Generally most people who are less invested in the topic/attacking each other tend to boil away as the thread continues on so I wouldn't be surprised if it got a little more antagonistic from here.
Wombat wasn't talking about the amount of empathy shown in this thread, but instead teaching others to be empathetic to people. You can teach people to be empathetic, though it is often extremely difficult... as shown in this thread.
@AttackZerg that's definitely not common knowledge. I joined TL around 2008 and that was apparently half a decade before then!
Also it's pretty crazy that "ret was raping the natural" was considered pretty neutral back then. Imagine how well that would go over nowadays.
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Northern Ireland27280 Posts
On June 25 2020 04:56 SootShade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:50 Wombat_NI wrote:
It might not change the world overnight sure, one person who is convinced to behave in a better way, or be more empathetic towards other people is still a net gain I don't see the amount of genuine empathy shown in any way out weighing the vast quantities of moralizing and spiteful accusations that arise every time subjects like this are broached. And this thread is a fine example of the trend.
Look at old TL threads from way back in the day, totally different tone and what used to fly then doesn’t now.
The community has clearly evolved on all sorts of issues and assuming people practice what they preach we’ve evolved from what we used to be.
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On June 25 2020 05:00 WarSame wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:56 SootShade wrote:On June 25 2020 04:50 Wombat_NI wrote:
It might not change the world overnight sure, one person who is convinced to behave in a better way, or be more empathetic towards other people is still a net gain I don't see the amount of genuine empathy shown in any way out weighing the vast quantities of moralizing and spiteful accusations that arise every time subjects like this are broached. And this thread is a fine example of the trend. ... Also it's pretty crazy that "ret was raping the natural" was considered pretty neutral back then. Imagine how well that would go over nowadays.
My name on iccup was Rapidrape.
Just disgusting tbh.
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Well, I wish you optimistic lot good luck with this endeavor. As long as you are more concerned about actually being right than convincing others that you are, you've got my blessing to continue bickering on the internet. Personally I'm just going to stick to one on one conversations when it comes to important issues.
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Really sad to see all that's happened =/ And Eleine's story really exemplifies why it's so hard to speak up about it.
It's really awful to read, but also really great that they write. Hopefully it'll embolden others whose stories have yet to be told.
I also hope this is picked up and handled well by organizations, and figures of power involved.
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On June 25 2020 04:53 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:51 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:30 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. I don't send pictures of my genitalia to anyone ever, so the possibility that a group of people on the internet falsely decide I did does not frighten me one bit, nor should it frighten anyone who treats others with the modicum of decency and respect we ought expect from one another as people in the world. lot's of big words, no substance. You literally asked "what are we waiting for" before hearing the second party. That's as stupid as it gets. What are you waiting for? A statement from the accused saying he’s not a creep and if that’s delivered it’s just a 50/50 he said she said?
Do you really think hearing one side of a conflict and never asking the other is a good idea? Let's imagine rapid has logs of that entire convesation and makes them public, and there are no dick pics. Then what? You lot are acting like that could never happen, I've already posted the link to the analogous situation HenryG's found himself in. Before his rebuttal was published, he got to be a rapist for a day. Then the entire accusation turned out to be utter bullshit.
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On June 25 2020 05:14 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2020 04:53 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 25 2020 04:51 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:30 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:26 juvenal wrote:On June 25 2020 04:10 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2020 04:08 Elmonti wrote:
I am convinced the guy said and did everything he has been accused of, but I agree with Deacon Frost in the part that we should wait to hear what RAPiD has to say. That is undeniable.
If we can be reasonably certain that he's a creep who can't keep his genitalia to himself, what exactly are we waiting for in expecting a response from him? imagine that something like this happens to you. Then, before you get the chance to defend, I'll say loud and clear "what are we waiting for? This creep can't say anything of value". Also, nice gaslighting. Keep genitalia to himself? I didn't see any rape accusations towards rapid. One of the stories had dick pics in it, that's about how bad it got. I don't send pictures of my genitalia to anyone ever, so the possibility that a group of people on the internet falsely decide I did does not frighten me one bit, nor should it frighten anyone who treats others with the modicum of decency and respect we ought expect from one another as people in the world. lot's of big words, no substance. You literally asked "what are we waiting for" before hearing the second party. That's as stupid as it gets. What are you waiting for? A statement from the accused saying he’s not a creep and if that’s delivered it’s just a 50/50 he said she said? Do you really think hearing one side of a conflict and never asking the other is a good idea? Let's imagine rapid has logs of that entire convesation and makes them public, and there are no dick pics. Then what? You lot are acting like that could never happen, I've already posted the link to the analogous situation HenryG's found himself in. Before his rebuttal was published, he got to be a rapist for a day. Then the entire accusation turned out to be utter bullshit.
After that person's rebuttal were they 'canceled'? Or did their community support them afterwards?
There are lessons we can learn from every other community that has had to deal with this stuff. It's messy.
This is brand new here. We get to write the rules and define how we handle it ourselves.
So far, apparently for six years people have been talking about Rapid and nothing has happened So, we can't pretend that someone posting a negative thing about you in this community, is an auto-cancel. We have never been that community.
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On June 24 2020 09:12 Dknight wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 08:04 GGzerG wrote:
I'm sorry but it is a little ridiculous to just make allegations about someone with no proof, regardless of whether or not you have a really heart warming / sad and heart wrenching story, there has to be proof or I will not be joining in this hate towards Rapid. I understand how terrible this is that it happened to people, and I feel for the women that it happened to, but a lot of this no offense can be almost the same as people screaming rape with no proof. Again no offense, but I don't think witch hunting with no proof is a good idea. Rapid is fucked if you're defending him
LOL
RIP
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Another nail in the coffin. Thank you for sharing.
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I guess it's a waiting game now. I would really like to hear a statement from rapid before I start to ignore him out of the community.
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EPT
