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On September 01 2019 02:10 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2019 01:49 TaKeTV wrote:On August 30 2019 10:11 ProTech wrote:On August 30 2019 03:45 TaKeTV wrote:On August 30 2019 03:29 ProTech wrote:On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote:
Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools.
What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help. Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day. What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry. No you dont. I understand you're an organizer and selling the idea that SC2 isn't infested with hacks is one of your priorities, it drives donations for events, keeps the viewers interested, and keeps E-sports from going under. Watch the stream for a full 8 hours and see the irrefutable evidence provided 5 or more times a day. Not that you'll watch the replay since it's easier to degrade people who are less popular than you are but here's an example of a cheater I run into 5+ times a day: https://drop.sc/replay/11587896Team: <Follow>Qoas aka: Suzy (hacker) and 천재님 Team: llllllllllll(me) and 옛날유저 TR vs RR Perfect meta opens from suzy and his team mate ( unscouted ) basically they knew it was TZ vs TZ hence the 2fac/ling open. 11:44: Load up for a drop and drop the left side of the map. If you follow Qoas's camera you will see him use Camera Lock. 12:02-12:010 - Camera lock 12:10 - issues command right above team mates third base hatchery to intercept drop. Bottom side of the map has zero vision, so to move your entire army to that location with no vision of the drop is 100% map hack. Also for the record, if you check last season GM Aoa is the rank #15 grandmaster. This is the same player, he uses map hack and win trades for his MMR. Trust me, it's there and I run into it all stream long. Sorry I was logged into TaKeTV as I am now since I am working. I am NarutO - the German caster for TaKeTV. And I do not degrade you. I am simply saying you are not running into hackers 5 times a day. Yes there are maphacks and other hacks, yes people use them up the pretty much highest level. No - they are not used by the majority of players and no you do not run into 5 hackers (different ones even moreso) per day on average. I am pretty sure that you would rather degrade me because I am working for an organization but I am or was a player myself when hacks were publicly available without pay and even at that time you didnt get as many hackers. I will take a wild guess and say that you are a very bitter person that cannot take a loss and everyone that beats you is a hacker rather than someone who played a better game. Everything else you want to interpret into "No you dont" is up to you but it doesnt reflect what I said in a bit. you certainly haven't provided any data to say that he doesn't. he plays a lot of games in a bracket where people are generally ass holes so it wouldn't surprise me if he really did run into 5 unique hackers a day. simply posting 'no you don't' is kind of gauche and dismissive and your followup is not much better
There are hackers in team games, but not as rampant as Protech thinks. Sometimes you run into two 5.7k+ players and they will just straight up obliterate you. The issue with Protech is that whenever he loses in team games, it's either "my teammate was an idiot" or "this guy is hacking!". While they both are valid points, it never occurs in his mind that there ARE people in this game better than him. When you mass enough 2s games, you know where all the common proxy locations are and you check for them. There are certain optimized builds for 2s that you prepare for. Blind countering certain builds or scouting in common proxy locations does not mean someone is hacking. If you call everyone you lose to a hacker, it'll eventually be true.
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On September 01 2019 06:12 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2019 02:10 Alejandrisha wrote:On September 01 2019 01:49 TaKeTV wrote:On August 30 2019 10:11 ProTech wrote:On August 30 2019 03:45 TaKeTV wrote:On August 30 2019 03:29 ProTech wrote:On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote:
Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools.
What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help. Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day. What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry. No you dont. I understand you're an organizer and selling the idea that SC2 isn't infested with hacks is one of your priorities, it drives donations for events, keeps the viewers interested, and keeps E-sports from going under. Watch the stream for a full 8 hours and see the irrefutable evidence provided 5 or more times a day. Not that you'll watch the replay since it's easier to degrade people who are less popular than you are but here's an example of a cheater I run into 5+ times a day: https://drop.sc/replay/11587896Team: <Follow>Qoas aka: Suzy (hacker) and 천재님 Team: llllllllllll(me) and 옛날유저 TR vs RR Perfect meta opens from suzy and his team mate ( unscouted ) basically they knew it was TZ vs TZ hence the 2fac/ling open. 11:44: Load up for a drop and drop the left side of the map. If you follow Qoas's camera you will see him use Camera Lock. 12:02-12:010 - Camera lock 12:10 - issues command right above team mates third base hatchery to intercept drop. Bottom side of the map has zero vision, so to move your entire army to that location with no vision of the drop is 100% map hack. Also for the record, if you check last season GM Aoa is the rank #15 grandmaster. This is the same player, he uses map hack and win trades for his MMR. Trust me, it's there and I run into it all stream long. Sorry I was logged into TaKeTV as I am now since I am working. I am NarutO - the German caster for TaKeTV. And I do not degrade you. I am simply saying you are not running into hackers 5 times a day. Yes there are maphacks and other hacks, yes people use them up the pretty much highest level. No - they are not used by the majority of players and no you do not run into 5 hackers (different ones even moreso) per day on average. I am pretty sure that you would rather degrade me because I am working for an organization but I am or was a player myself when hacks were publicly available without pay and even at that time you didnt get as many hackers. I will take a wild guess and say that you are a very bitter person that cannot take a loss and everyone that beats you is a hacker rather than someone who played a better game. Everything else you want to interpret into "No you dont" is up to you but it doesnt reflect what I said in a bit. you certainly haven't provided any data to say that he doesn't. he plays a lot of games in a bracket where people are generally ass holes so it wouldn't surprise me if he really did run into 5 unique hackers a day. simply posting 'no you don't' is kind of gauche and dismissive and your followup is not much better There are hackers in team games, but not as rampant as Protech thinks. Sometimes you run into two 5.7k+ players and they will just straight up obliterate you. The issue with Protech is that whenever he loses in team games, it's either "my teammate was an idiot" or "this guy is hacking!". While they both are valid points, it never occurs in his mind that there ARE people in this game better than him. When you mass enough 2s games, you know where all the common proxy locations are and you check for them. There are certain optimized builds for 2s that you prepare for. Blind countering certain builds or scouting in common proxy locations does not mean someone is hacking. If you call everyone you lose to a hacker, it'll eventually be true.
i don't care about what he has or has not said on stream since i do not watch. i'm just referring to what has been posted here.
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Just a thought: Is there UI software using already available information on B-net in ways that are difficult or impossible to obtain manually? It could be:
-Reading match histories and posting average game lengths and common build orders for certain matchups. Poker players use simlar tools having agents spectate loads of games to snipe playstyles.
-Upon scouting a building calculating whan certain units can complete (like scouting Hive-broodlords.)
-Calculating the best attack timing by the economy of either player (expecting good macro.)
-Calculating the opponent's warp-ins and inject-production cycles using available information.
Some of these might not be that helpful but would it be considered hacking or illegal??
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On September 02 2019 01:34 Slydie wrote:
Just a thought: Is there UI software using already available information on B-net in ways that are difficult or impossible to obtain manually? It could be:
-Reading match histories and posting average game lengths and common build orders for certain matchups. Poker players use simlar tools having agents spectate loads of games to snipe playstyles.
-Upon scouting a building calculating whan certain units can complete (like scouting Hive-broodlords.)
-Calculating the best attack timing by the economy of either player (expecting good macro.)
-Calculating the opponent's warp-ins and inject-production cycles using available information.
Some of these might not be that helpful but would it be considered hacking or illegal??
If you feed replays to an analysing tool (bot) , I wouldn't call it hacking. I would call it good preparation
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On August 30 2019 03:29 ProTech wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote:
Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools.
What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help. Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
I'm sure you do 
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
I have a lot of games against confirmed hackers semi recently but most of them are the same few guys over and over and over again because they go so long without being banned.
Some of them abuse flaws in the game to snipe you on purpose as you can see the queue status of any other player from within the game and there's nothing that they can do to hide it from you. Players should be able to queue without broadcasting that they're in a queue in order to prevent that kind of abuse, something that we somehow can't do 9 years after the game's release.
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On August 31 2019 04:38 Conut wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2019 01:45 Haukinger wrote:On August 30 2019 23:44 DSh1 wrote:On August 30 2019 18:14 Harris1st wrote:On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote:
That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements. lol imagine Blizz would sell those hacks themselves. You like the game but hate injecting? Buy auto-inject for 3,99 a month You hate it when you don't watch the screen for a second and 4 banelings blow up all your marines? Buy auto-splitt for 4,49 a month 20% of the incomes goes to the price pool of the WCS (World Cheat Series) Don't give them ideas. I'm scared Actually though the UI should be better. I hate to look top right and bottom left. Well, people pay for skins which, right now, are pure eye candy. A hell lot more people would pay a hell lot more money for fixing the ui. Perhaps one should combine both of them, a spikey baneling skin brings +1 armor along, while the marines with targeting laser automatically focus banelings... not to speak of a whole new level of meta of selecting skins depending on your opponent. I would probably stop playing sc2 forever and I have loved the game for 10 years almost lmao
They could create a separate ladder for that mode of game play. That would be cool. Add in "hero units" a la Red Alert. etc etc.
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On September 01 2019 03:42 Alejandrisha wrote:if they are good at hiding it, they will be 10x better online. they don't care about offline results; just qualifying online is good for $$ and that you cannot deny.
i don't know why you are taking opposing stance. you should be furious this plague is running rampant in your community
I'm not so sure it's that much of an opposing stance. Rather they know they're bad so, to be better than they could be, they punish themselves by spending seemingly a huge amount of money -- regularly -- to show off. Which is shitty, but don't remember every reading sc2-drama about someone hacking into/during a tournament or even getting close to a high finish.
The point I'm trying to make: Obviously there is some anti-hacking in sc2. We will never know how bad the situation would be without and the devs won't ever able to precisely say how often people use hacks. The goal to go for has to be proportionate:
1) so no / minimum amount of people undeservedly make online qualifiers and/or get (even small) sponsorships.
2) mapshacks have to be so rare = so expensive that using them can't pay off from small (online) tourney winnings.
If Blizzards takes the second point into account, that's a very clear bar to plan around. Enforcing this -- and doing this continuously, as they like are -- obviously also improves ladder 'health'.
I'm curious how dota does it -- or other games, that is, where the monetary incentive is far higher than sc2.
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On September 02 2019 17:28 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2019 01:34 Slydie wrote:
Just a thought: Is there UI software using already available information on B-net in ways that are difficult or impossible to obtain manually? It could be:
-Reading match histories and posting average game lengths and common build orders for certain matchups. Poker players use simlar tools having agents spectate loads of games to snipe playstyles.
-Upon scouting a building calculating whan certain units can complete (like scouting Hive-broodlords.)
-Calculating the best attack timing by the economy of either player (expecting good macro.)
-Calculating the opponent's warp-ins and inject-production cycles using available information.
Some of these might not be that helpful but would it be considered hacking or illegal?? If you feed replays to an analysing tool (bot) , I wouldn't call it hacking. I would call it good preparation
I was not thinking Replays but rather the public info from match histories on player profiles. It should not be too hard to make!
By scanning the info of your ladder opponents and their opponents a couple of times, getting a database of all regular players around your MMR should not be too difficult.
Does this exist already?
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The only way to stop this is figure out how much he makes every month/year selling his hacks. Pay him that or more, and have him convert over to white hat looking for other black hat hackers like him/
We could easily crowdsource or patreon him the money each month.
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On September 05 2019 04:44 MarlieChurphy wrote:
The only way to stop this is figure out how much he makes every month/year selling his hacks. Pay him that or more, and have him convert over to white hat looking for other black hat hackers like him/
We could easily crowdsource or patreon him the money each month.
Ah yes, I can't look forward to pay someone not to commit a crime against me!
Sounds absolutely reasonable.
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On September 05 2019 05:02 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2019 04:44 MarlieChurphy wrote:
The only way to stop this is figure out how much he makes every month/year selling his hacks. Pay him that or more, and have him convert over to white hat looking for other black hat hackers like him/
We could easily crowdsource or patreon him the money each month. Ah yes, I can't look forward to pay someone not to commit a crime against me! Sounds absolutely reasonable.
Its perfectly sound. Whats your idea?
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On September 05 2019 04:44 MarlieChurphy wrote:
The only way to stop this is figure out how much he makes every month/year selling his hacks. Pay him that or more, and have him convert over to white hat looking for other black hat hackers like him/
We could easily crowdsource or patreon him the money each month.
It would be far better to have a community sourced aggressive anti-hack third party tool/launcher, which scans players RAM and somehow connects two matching players to assure that there are no current hacks, I honestly have got no idea how strong is SC2's API, but I don't think there is an alternative, Blizz as a company can't spend the resources needed to maintain a hack free SC2 experience, not only because of probably limited budget for SC2 specifically, but because of legal reasons, back in iirc 2005-8 ish Blizz was accused over and over again of deploying spyware on its users, specifically aggressive anti-hack toolkits
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4385050.stm
There was already drama about Epic's handling of their own anti-cheat kits on their Fortnite/Epic Launcher, given currents community feelings and perceptions I wouldn't be surprised if such an outrage could spark once again if it became known that "Blizz is spying on people"...
So, yeah, from my perspective Blizz simply doesn't quite have enough incentives to overcome the drawbacks and potential big PR backlash in order to deploy aggressive antihack tools, so it needs be left to the community
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The easy solution that will come to us in 5-10 years anyway is streaming games. You can't hack if you have zero data on your client (or maybe you can. I don't know shit about hacking).
But this WILL cut off 99% of hacks! Right? Right!
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Actually, instead of banning hackers, they should just be silently put in a matchmaking with only hackers.
Let the games (chat in and post-game included) be visible to non-hackers for money.
Profit.
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On September 06 2019 06:41 AbouSV wrote:
Actually, instead of banning hackers, they should just be silently put in a matchmaking with only hackers.
Let the games (chat in and post-game included) be visible to non-hackers for money.
Profit.
Lol I can Imagine:
Player A: You are hacking you worthless *******
Player B: No, you are hacking you motherless *****
A: I report you!
B: No I report you!
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Really interesting thread OP, keep up the good work.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On September 05 2019 22:56 Harris1st wrote:
The easy solution that will come to us in 5-10 years anyway is streaming games. You can't hack if you have zero data on your client (or maybe you can. I don't know shit about hacking).
But this WILL cut off 99% of hacks! Right? Right!
Depends on the technical solution and how the client is done. But this has bigger issues than hacking 
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Remember there is a downside, by banning people there is a very real possibility of banning innocent players, there are plenty of examples of this.
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On September 06 2019 17:43 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2019 22:56 Harris1st wrote:
The easy solution that will come to us in 5-10 years anyway is streaming games. You can't hack if you have zero data on your client (or maybe you can. I don't know shit about hacking).
But this WILL cut off 99% of hacks! Right? Right! Depends on the technical solution and how the client is done. But this has bigger issues than hacking
At least for rts it does, playing with 200 ms against someone with 100 ms (depending on how far away from the base server you live) is a real problem. But I guess you could code in that everyone gets 200 ms, the question is, would competetive sc2 be fun if everyone had 200ms? =P
But yeah, obviously hacking is a problem in the game but for me personally I only care if it effects tournaments or professional games. I mean for me on ladder at dia I don't care if I face a gold/plat leaguer with hacks. Since we are at similar mmr we are at the same skill level in total anyway, I don't mind facing a one handed guy that only plays with his mouse either. Obviously he is as skilled with one hand as I am with two and that is fine.
I understand that is really frustrating at the higher level though, high master and GM level. Because at that point the hackers can be so good there is actually a risk they will place into the top GM because the hacks can be that impactful if the player is good.
That is also really bad since if you are GM and has to play known maphackers you need to play in a different way than you would a normal player with means you are practising in a way that is not helpful in a normal fair game.
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EPT
