This thread Is not an advertisement for maphack. This was only made In order to gather as much informations as possible about the current state of this type of hack in Starcraft 2 so people can be more aware of this problem. Most of people think maphack is dead/only present at high level or is just a « reveal the map » hack, but it’s much more complicated than that. I hope It will help to rise awarness about this, and make blizzard do something about it. I’m keeping an eye on hack communities of my differents games for years, and i recently wanted to see what changed about the MH part in SC2 since the last time i checked (2016). It took me 2 month to have all the informations I wanted, and here is the result
Also, no name/direct access to the hack will be revealed in public, for 2 mains reasons :
- 99% chances they are not using their real name/game tag, so it’s useless I think. - It could help some people to find them and then buy the hack.
Blizzard probably already know about this (specially the last one i will talk about), but If you can prove me in PM that you are from blizzard staff I’ll of course share you the uncensored pictures + other screens that I can’t post here.
English is not my native language, so there will be mistakes in the thread and the video, feel free to correct me _________________________________________________________________________________________________
I’ll talk about 2 differents hack I found, one seems to be the most popular/powerful hack tool for a long time, the other one have less feature but still work great. I’m also pretty sure there is a third one, but i couldn’t find after a month of research.
1) Generalities
To begin with, MH is not that simple to find.
I remember in 2014/2015, it was pretty easy to find one by just googling « SC2 maphack ». Some of them were free to use, best ones (better UI + other features) were pretty expensives like ValiantChaos’s maphack (one of the most famous at the time).
Then around 2015/2016 (can’t remember exactly), a big update of Warden, the Blizzard anti cheat system, stopped most of them. It was impossible to find one for free, and it was very rare to play against it on the ladder. Since this update, if you really want one you now require to pay a monthly fee to the hacker in order to use his sofware and have the new versions each time an official patch is published by blizzard. It’s also a lot harder to find them, and unless you know the right place to get this type of hack (not specifically for SC2, but for hacks in general) it’s very unlikely you’ll be able to find what you want (or you’ll be scammed with a fake MH, it happens very often from what i can read in this community).
2) First hack
The first one took me a week to find. He offered a free trial of 3 days, that allowed me to see everything that can be done with this software . Once the trial is over, you are supposed to send back a document included in the folder, and the hacker is supposed to send you back a new version of the software, this time linked to your PC (i guess the software creates a specific signature of your PC, maybe linked to your motherboard).
I used it on a throwaway account for 48h, then deleted it.
Here is a commentated gameplay with it (it’s impossible to reccord the ingame overlay no matter what i tried with OBS, so i can’t really show it in action) :
TLDW :
It include some basics feature :
- Sound alert for macro (upcoming supply block, probe production stopped…) or enemy army (drop, big move out… . - Second minimap with unit movement and building placement.- Production tab. - Energy left for scans/chronos….
It’s a bit disturbing at first to have another overlay to look at, just like in gold league when it’s hard to check frequently the minimap, but it’s obvioulsy worth it.
Also, in the video someone spotted me, I PMed him after i stopped reccording to tell him what i was doing, i’ll link him this thread so hello to you buddy if you see this ^^
I used it for 4-5 games at low mmr (at low mmr, my macro was good enough so i could talk and properly expain without losing because of macro errors) in the videos just in order to explain how it’s used, but after that i used another account to test how far I could go with this. The 2nd account was with my real mmr (4k7, i'm very stable usually, rarely drop below 4k6), and i’ve done 15 games with it. I wanted to know how big the impact was, maybe you just get out macro very quickly after all. I managed to reach 5k mmr (my peak mmr was 4800 with my main account) with a 14-1 ratio, the only lose being due to a Zerg late game with mass infestors broolords. I feel like i could have reach much higher, but i prefered to stop here since it was enough.
This is indeed a very strong tool, that allows people who know how the game works (counter, strategy, build analysis) to stop loosing to anything linked to harass/scout. You can only lose due to micro error during fight or a big out macro. However, the maphack feature itself is pretty useless if you don’t understand well enough the game of course, i think below mid/high diamond it’s 100% useless. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________
3) Second hack
During my research, I also heard about 2 other maphack.
I never found enough informations about the first one, but the second one was very interesting.It seems like it’s the most popular and avanced hack tool for SC2, I think you can’t even call this a maphack anymore since it’s just a small feature in this one. This one was a bit harder to find, and the person selling it seems to have a very well organised marketplace (honestly impressed by all his system).
166 peoples on it, a bit bigger than i expected tbh Prices : similar to the first hack I found. Payement : much more different this time. The first hacker gave me a PayPal link, but this one want to be payed in Bitcoin !
To obtain the hack, once you sent the bitcoint to his wallet, the bot will check and send you a license key to unlock the hack (you can dowload it in a specific channel on his discord, once you have the « Free trial » or « member » role). This time you don’t have to send back a document to link kit to your PC, you only need a license key. The trial last for 72h this time.
Screen of differents features of the hack when you unlock the software with a license key, including auto creep spread example : https://imgur.com/a/dJW49A3
Aside form the production tab and economy informations, the new ingame UI is interesting
Since i didn’t want to play again with something like that in ladder, I asked one my friend to test it in custom games with me.
ZvP with various hack activated, such as auto creep spread, auto inject and auto AOE dodge : https://drop.sc/replay/11541492 I'm 3k9-4k Z, he's 4k5-4k6 P.
ZvZ split hack, game lagged pretty hard for both of us during apm peak (over 6k5 apm sometimes) : https://drop.sc/replay/11541494 Split hack is the most obvious of all, since it need a very big apm to work
15mn game, guess which I am ?
Auto split typical APM
Each time an official patch is out, the hack is patched as well, most of the time very quickly after the official release Patches for comparison
As you can see, you can hardly just call that a maphack.
It help a lot with auto split, and change pretty much everything as a Zerg since auto creep spread and auto inject are very effective. There are a lot of features i can't show because there are too much of them, but most of them are macro help. For example, if you select 12 workers and right click a gas, 3 of them will automatically mine vespene gas and the other ones wont stop what they are doing. Terran also become very weak since you can prevent any form of harass Etc...
I only found these 2 hacks in 1 month, but there are probably a lot more in specific community such as Russian or KR community.For both hack, i found at least 250 people using them, most of them between 4k8-5k5, and some of them seems to be GM on EU/NA or KR :
Profile picture of one of the people i found in the second hack servor
This hack is very scary, because this is clearly a very well organised and powerful machine. Just imagine a tool like this in the hands of some low/mid gm players, they could easily qualify for WCS for example since qualifiers are online (not saying it happened in the past, maybe it did, i'm just saying it could happen). I have no idea of how the owner of this could be punished since it would be very hard to find any personnal informations about him ______________________________________________________________________________________________________
This conclude this thread, I hope you enjoyed it
I problably forgot some details, so ask your questions in the comments and I'll try to answer them if I can (you can ask in french if you want).
Again, It's just in order for most people to know about the current state of this : It's not that rare and It's much more developped than just a maphack.
I hope you'll play a healthy ladder, but if you meet one of them don't forget to still report them
Dude, thank you very much for sharing the report with us. This is HUGE. Now, I think no one can deny that there is a problem. Blizzard must say something about this. Look at screenshot... hack was updated for the WHOLE time.
this is gross but not surprising, i've encountered a number of very obvious hackers (auto split vs storm/disrupter) in low/mid masters and suspected quite a few more of map hacking. I'm sure some of it is me being pissy cause i lost but this post makes me think it's pretty freaking prevalent. Losing hurts enough when it's legit, this shit makes people not want to play the game. Worst part for me is that as a shitty low/mid masters player i'm right in the sweet spot to hit these guys. QQ
On August 30 2019 02:44 stilt wrote: Wow, never thought that many people would actually paid for a maphack, I always imagined it was free, spending all this money for some wins is crazy.
Yeah this is crazy, I thought maphacks were like 20 bucks, done by some unemployable progammers
I can only laugh at people who SUBSCRIBE to cheat at a video game ahahahahah
What I don't understand is the motivation of these players, the only (maybe not only but the strongest) attraction of SC2 is its extremely competitive structure and how you need to be good at so much at the same time. Multitask, map awareness, decisionmaking, micro, macro and so on.
How about I play sc2 and pay to not have to play half the game? Erm well, personally if I didn't want to bother with macro and splitting I would play some other game. There are literally hundreds of pvp games that offer pvp without any of the macro, micro and blind decisionmaking. How about playing that instead of paying to make starcraft not starcraft, because honestly, if you use these things you aren't playing starcraft. Just like boxing with knuckle-dusters instead of gloves is not boxing.
It's great that you brought up how this sort of thing can affect the competitive scene. I imagine that in the hands of a really strong GM, they would be able to make all their in-game decisions look totally justified and they would be borderline unbeatable in online tournaments. If it really is 'undetectable' outside of the reporting system and costs like $1/day, there are people who would look to make money out of it.
Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote: Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry.
On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote: Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry.
On August 30 2019 02:58 ProTech wrote: Finally, after getting so much flack from the community and other places, someone finally proves everything i've been saying.
The burden of proof is on the claimant, and all the credit goes to whoever produces the proof. Anything less is pure hearsay. Congrats on being right, but the credit is only yours if you wrote up a post like OPs first.
On August 30 2019 02:44 stilt wrote: Wow, never thought that many people would actually paid for a maphack, I always imagined it was free, spending all this money for some wins is crazy.
Yeah this is crazy, I thought maphacks were like 20 bucks, done by some unemployable progammers
I can only laugh at people who SUBSCRIBE to cheat at a video game ahahahahah
nice post, OP
They subscribe to cheat at a FREE video game... mindblowing....
Very nice post, very well documented! Like most people I can't beleive hacks could be so damn expensive, it's also nice to know how hard it is to find them/ that very few people seems to use them.
:O that's interesting. Almost makes me want to develop my own hack just to see if I can lol.
I always hate when people are accused of hacks tho without RELALY SOLID proof, mainly because multiple people have accused me of map hacking, including one female "progammer"/streamer lol. I held her allin and then she didn't seem to be attacking or anything, so I blindly made spores at my bases since I was so far ahead in economy and she made DTS... Apparently hacking was the only explanation. Wasn't even high MMR either. Was low masters/mid diamond :S.
On August 30 2019 02:44 stilt wrote: Wow, never thought that many people would actually paid for a maphack, I always imagined it was free, spending all this money for some wins is crazy.
Yeah this is crazy, I thought maphacks were like 20 bucks, done by some unemployable progammers
I can only laugh at people who SUBSCRIBE to cheat at a video game ahahahahah
nice post, OP
They subscribe to cheat at a FREE video game... mindblowing....
that's pretty much the mobile game freemium model :D
On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote: Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry.
No you dont.
I understand you're an organizer and selling the idea that SC2 isn't infested with hacks is one of your priorities, it drives donations for events, keeps the viewers interested, and keeps E-sports from going under.
Watch the stream for a full 8 hours and see the irrefutable evidence provided 5 or more times a day. Not that you'll watch the replay since it's easier to degrade people who are less popular than you are but here's an example of a cheater I run into 5+ times a day:
Team: <Follow>Qoas aka: Suzy (hacker) and 천재님 Team: llllllllllll(me) and 옛날유저
TR vs RR
Perfect meta opens from suzy and his team mate ( unscouted ) basically they knew it was TZ vs TZ hence the 2fac/ling open.
11:44: Load up for a drop and drop the left side of the map. If you follow Qoas's camera you will see him use Camera Lock.
12:02-12:010 - Camera lock
12:10 - issues command right above team mates third base hatchery to intercept drop.
Bottom side of the map has zero vision, so to move your entire army to that location with no vision of the drop is 100% map hack.
Also for the record, if you check last season GM Aoa is the rank #15 grandmaster. This is the same player, he uses map hack and win trades for his MMR.
Trust me, it's there and I run into it all stream long.
I come from competitive CS, where hacking has always been very prevalent at high level, and it seems it got worse with CSGO and the switch to free to play. Back when I was playing match-making at global elite rank (more or less high master to GM equivalent in sc2), the norm was about one cheater per game, either on your team or theirs. So about 10% of the population playing high level ranked in cs go was cheating. I don't play anymore but from what I've heard it's not much better today.
People have been paying for private hacks for a long time, across multiple games. Paid hacks are probably as old as esport. The fact that sc2 is plagued by this is not surprising to me. Most of you seem surprised that 250 losers are paying for hacks, not only it is not surprising, it's actually a low number compared to other esport titles. It seems that first person shooters are the worst in this respect, with RTSs and MOBAs compartively less targeted by hackers.
There are currently ~8000 players in GM + master on all servers. Assuming 250 of those are hacking, they represent 3.1% of the total players. So if you're a master or GM player, you can assume that you play a hacker every 30 games or so. Most of us probably don't even notice because the matchmaking will make you beat half of those hackers, and the half that beats you, unless you carefully examine the replay you will probably just think you got outplayed.
Thank you for providing the results of your research. Hacking in sc2 is a real problem, but it's far from what people can endure in other games. Hopefully Blizzard will continue updating their anti cheat to at least keep the free hacks at bay. For the paid hacks, I'm afraid with the amount of money those coders make, they will always be one step ahead of any anti-cheat.
That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
lol imagine Blizz would sell those hacks themselves.
You like the game but hate injecting? Buy auto-inject for 3,99 a month You hate it when you don't watch the screen for a second and 4 banelings blow up all your marines? Buy auto-splitt for 4,49 a month
20% of the incomes goes to the price pool of the WCS (World Cheat Series)
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
How is production hack, or vision hack, a QOL improvement?
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
How is production hack, or vision hack, a QOL improvement?
You don't have to scout. Life improved right there
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
Skillful scouting and map control is a part of the game, and if one has an advantage there it is not fair if the overall skill level is similar. Macro matters more, though, and in GM, the players scout and predict plays at a very high level anyway.
Removing the fog of war would make a very different game, I am not even sure how it would play out!
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
How is production hack, or vision hack, a QOL improvement?
Why can't we move the GUI elements around and place them somewhere more reasonable to? Or hide them completely? The game can do this, just the players cannot do that and have to use the crappy default version. One of the "hacks" allowed this. That's a HUGE QOL improvement.
Move the supply/resource next to the map so you can look at both at the same time, maybe make the map bigger, remove the middle panel showing how many units and what building is selected, leave the progress bar and the icon of the upgrade somewhere. Or better, show me MY production instead, so I can see how many ovies are building, how soon will they build, how far is the ling speed away, queens... etc. The engine can do that and it's my information shown in a better way. Show me the number of larvae instead of listing them, I don't need to see the command card either.
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
How is production hack, or vision hack, a QOL improvement?
Why can't we move the GUI elements around and place them somewhere more reasonable to? Or hide them completely? The game can do this, just the players cannot do that and have to use the crappy default version. One of the "hacks" allowed this. That's a HUGE QOL improvement.
Move the supply/resource next to the map so you can look at both at the same time, maybe make the map bigger, remove the middle panel showing how many units and what building is selected, leave the progress bar and the icon of the upgrade somewhere. Or better, show me MY production instead, so I can see how many ovies are building, how soon will they build, how far is the ling speed away, queens... etc. The engine can do that and it's my information shown in a better way. Show me the number of larvae instead of listing them, I don't need to see the command card either.
C'mon.
While I don't disagree with you it is a slippery slope. Stuff like being able to reorganize stuff that is already visible to be "better" visible makes sense but to simplify information is a slippery slope.
Enemy protoss players buildings in progress, don't have to click them to see what it is, display an icon. Same with what unit a stargate is building. Being able to see your own production tab significantly changes the game.
You might not like it but choosing what to use your apm on and what information to gather is a big part of sc2. If you simplify gathering information you take big parts away from the perspective of the game that revolves around making decisions with sparse information. "Game sense" becomes less important because what it actually is is being skilled at gathering the right information and using it the right way, it is a large part of sc2. The more of it you take away and the more SC2 become a game of perfecting micro and macro.
I would like some QOL myself but we must recognize that what we are asking for is for them to change SC2 into a different game of sorts.
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
How is production hack, or vision hack, a QOL improvement?
Why can't we move the GUI elements around and place them somewhere more reasonable to? Or hide them completely? The game can do this, just the players cannot do that and have to use the crappy default version. One of the "hacks" allowed this. That's a HUGE QOL improvement.
Move the supply/resource next to the map so you can look at both at the same time, maybe make the map bigger, remove the middle panel showing how many units and what building is selected, leave the progress bar and the icon of the upgrade somewhere. Or better, show me MY production instead, so I can see how many ovies are building, how soon will they build, how far is the ling speed away, queens... etc. The engine can do that and it's my information shown in a better way. Show me the number of larvae instead of listing them, I don't need to see the command card either.
C'mon.
While I don't disagree with you it is a slippery slope. Stuff like being able to reorganize stuff that is already visible to be "better" visible makes sense but to simplify information is a slippery slope.
Enemy protoss players buildings in progress, don't have to click them to see what it is, display an icon. Same with what unit a stargate is building. Being able to see your own production tab significantly changes the game.
You might not like it but choosing what to use your apm on and what information to gather is a big part of sc2. If you simplify gathering information you take big parts away from the perspective of the game that revolves around making decisions with sparse information. "Game sense" becomes less important because what it actually is is being skilled at gathering the right information and using it the right way, it is a large part of sc2. The more of it you take away and the more SC2 become a game of perfecting micro and macro.
I would like some QOL myself but we must recognize that what we are asking for is for them to change SC2 into a different game of sorts.
The original poster said
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
Boldening by me.
And that's the point, I reacted on somebody who went into the obvious pitfalls of cheating while missed the whole section of QOL improvements we can have.
Also I originally had annoying point to the end with "BUT THIS WILL MAKE THE GAME EASIER" I deleted for obvious reasons. Now the quesiton is, if we should fight the game along with fighting the enemy or if the game should be the tool to help us fighting the enemy. SCBW is more of the first, I say SC2 should be more of the latter and if we can get GUI things that will make our lives easier and more informed, we should get them.
I'm not hating the BW, that's just how it is, at least for me I just don't like restrictions which are there just because "game would be more easy". It should be, we should decide by our strategy and ability to force our strategy to our enemy. Not by not seeing a drop because I was looking at my supply, which is on the exact opposite side of the screen. Which is by definition a bad GUI design.
Edit> BTW I still don't think this would be a huge improvement. If you're bad you're bad, this would be a minor tweak and would remove a valid reason to stop using hacks. I believe it was Destiny(don't quote me on that) who once said that using hacks make sense as they make you a better player. BEcause they help you develop faster as you know when to attack, not over-ovie/pylon/etc. There are plenty of things Blizzard can and should implement. It won't matter, the game is so fast the impact will be miniscule if any.
We can use similar arguments about screen resolutions or key mapping. It's just where we draw the line/your philosophy. I say it's a strategy game so you should win by strategy not just by pure mechanics. Since it's a real time strategy you still need some mechanics. But I say that the game should be a tool to help you win, not to be an obstacle
Edi2> I would compare this to the worker numbers over gas/base. Did it really helped that much? Nah. Do we still see over/under saturation? Yes. I bet this helped more people in lower leagues than pros who look and see. I look and don't see
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
lol imagine Blizz would sell those hacks themselves.
You like the game but hate injecting? Buy auto-inject for 3,99 a month You hate it when you don't watch the screen for a second and 4 banelings blow up all your marines? Buy auto-splitt for 4,49 a month
20% of the incomes goes to the price pool of the WCS (World Cheat Series)
Don't give them ideas.
I'm scared
Actually though the UI should be better. I hate to look top right and bottom left.
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
lol imagine Blizz would sell those hacks themselves.
You like the game but hate injecting? Buy auto-inject for 3,99 a month You hate it when you don't watch the screen for a second and 4 banelings blow up all your marines? Buy auto-splitt for 4,49 a month
20% of the incomes goes to the price pool of the WCS (World Cheat Series)
Don't give them ideas.
I'm scared
Actually though the UI should be better. I hate to look top right and bottom left.
Well, people pay for skins which, right now, are pure eye candy. A hell lot more people would pay a hell lot more money for fixing the ui. Perhaps one should combine both of them, a spikey baneling skin brings +1 armor along, while the marines with targeting laser automatically focus banelings... not to speak of a whole new level of meta of selecting skins depending on your opponent.
That's the worst idea yet in a topic full of bad ideas, Haukinger. People complain about balance all the time, can't imagine what colossal complaining that would cause.. and it would probably wreck competitive play.
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
lol imagine Blizz would sell those hacks themselves.
You like the game but hate injecting? Buy auto-inject for 3,99 a month You hate it when you don't watch the screen for a second and 4 banelings blow up all your marines? Buy auto-splitt for 4,49 a month
20% of the incomes goes to the price pool of the WCS (World Cheat Series)
Don't give them ideas.
I'm scared
Actually though the UI should be better. I hate to look top right and bottom left.
Well, people pay for skins which, right now, are pure eye candy. A hell lot more people would pay a hell lot more money for fixing the ui. Perhaps one should combine both of them, a spikey baneling skin brings +1 armor along, while the marines with targeting laser automatically focus banelings... not to speak of a whole new level of meta of selecting skins depending on your opponent.
This already exists. It's called Co-op and you pay for it.
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
lol imagine Blizz would sell those hacks themselves.
You like the game but hate injecting? Buy auto-inject for 3,99 a month You hate it when you don't watch the screen for a second and 4 banelings blow up all your marines? Buy auto-splitt for 4,49 a month
20% of the incomes goes to the price pool of the WCS (World Cheat Series)
Don't give them ideas.
I'm scared
Actually though the UI should be better. I hate to look top right and bottom left.
Well, people pay for skins which, right now, are pure eye candy. A hell lot more people would pay a hell lot more money for fixing the ui. Perhaps one should combine both of them, a spikey baneling skin brings +1 armor along, while the marines with targeting laser automatically focus banelings... not to speak of a whole new level of meta of selecting skins depending on your opponent.
I would probably stop playing sc2 forever and I have loved the game for 10 years almost lmao
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
How is production hack, or vision hack, a QOL improvement?
On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote: Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry.
No you dont.
I understand you're an organizer and selling the idea that SC2 isn't infested with hacks is one of your priorities, it drives donations for events, keeps the viewers interested, and keeps E-sports from going under.
Watch the stream for a full 8 hours and see the irrefutable evidence provided 5 or more times a day. Not that you'll watch the replay since it's easier to degrade people who are less popular than you are but here's an example of a cheater I run into 5+ times a day:
Team: <Follow>Qoas aka: Suzy (hacker) and 천재님 Team: llllllllllll(me) and 옛날유저
TR vs RR
Perfect meta opens from suzy and his team mate ( unscouted ) basically they knew it was TZ vs TZ hence the 2fac/ling open.
11:44: Load up for a drop and drop the left side of the map. If you follow Qoas's camera you will see him use Camera Lock.
12:02-12:010 - Camera lock
12:10 - issues command right above team mates third base hatchery to intercept drop.
Bottom side of the map has zero vision, so to move your entire army to that location with no vision of the drop is 100% map hack.
Also for the record, if you check last season GM Aoa is the rank #15 grandmaster. This is the same player, he uses map hack and win trades for his MMR.
Trust me, it's there and I run into it all stream long.
Facing the same person several times at a 2v2 MMR where you mostly face the same opponents during hours of consecutive play has nothing to do with 'facing hackers 5 times a day'. While technically not false, that's a serious way of biasing your point for not much.
On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote: Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry.
No you dont.
I understand you're an organizer and selling the idea that SC2 isn't infested with hacks is one of your priorities, it drives donations for events, keeps the viewers interested, and keeps E-sports from going under.
Watch the stream for a full 8 hours and see the irrefutable evidence provided 5 or more times a day. Not that you'll watch the replay since it's easier to degrade people who are less popular than you are but here's an example of a cheater I run into 5+ times a day:
Team: <Follow>Qoas aka: Suzy (hacker) and 천재님 Team: llllllllllll(me) and 옛날유저
TR vs RR
Perfect meta opens from suzy and his team mate ( unscouted ) basically they knew it was TZ vs TZ hence the 2fac/ling open.
11:44: Load up for a drop and drop the left side of the map. If you follow Qoas's camera you will see him use Camera Lock.
12:02-12:010 - Camera lock
12:10 - issues command right above team mates third base hatchery to intercept drop.
Bottom side of the map has zero vision, so to move your entire army to that location with no vision of the drop is 100% map hack.
Also for the record, if you check last season GM Aoa is the rank #15 grandmaster. This is the same player, he uses map hack and win trades for his MMR.
Trust me, it's there and I run into it all stream long.
Facing the same person several times at a 2v2 MMR where you mostly face the same opponents during hours of consecutive play has nothing to do with 'facing hackers 5 times a day'. While technically not false, that's a serious way of biasing your point for not much.
When people hack at literally the #1 spots on archon/2v2 ladder and GM 1v1 for a year without getting banned it's hard not to hit them 5 or 10 times a day. The % of games that are against hackers are actually very high if they're playing fearlessly every day.
i mean spades and that zerg who played under the tag of some energy drink held rank 1 on ladder for a while and no one caught them hacking til like a few weeks to a few months after
zerg desukai? some one here knows..
edit: and it's absolutely worth it for some people. spades was playing online cups, desuki was playing for #1 spot on ladder for a sponsor
On August 31 2019 19:34 Alejandrisha wrote: i mean spades and that zerg who played under the tag of some energy drink held rank 1 on ladder for a while and no one caught them hacking til like a few weeks to a few months after
zerg desukai? some one here knows..
edit: and it's absolutely worth it for some people. spades was playing online cups, desuki was playing for #1 spot on ladder for a sponsor
And some people just legitimately don't care, will have more fun if they win 80% of their games instead of the 65% that they deserve. Being able to see unit positions on minimap & having production tab of your opponent the whole game gives such a huge edge to players that are already good, yet it produces a lot of games where there is still somewhat plausible deniability since any one replay can look like they just got lucky or predicted the game state really well.. until they slip up a bunch of times.
On August 31 2019 19:34 Alejandrisha wrote: i mean spades and that zerg who played under the tag of some energy drink held rank 1 on ladder for a while and no one caught them hacking til like a few weeks to a few months after
zerg desukai? some one here knows..
edit: and it's absolutely worth it for some people. spades was playing online cups, desuki was playing for #1 spot on ladder for a sponsor
On August 31 2019 19:34 Alejandrisha wrote: i mean spades and that zerg who played under the tag of some energy drink held rank 1 on ladder for a while and no one caught them hacking til like a few weeks to a few months after
zerg desukai? some one here knows..
edit: and it's absolutely worth it for some people. spades was playing online cups, desuki was playing for #1 spot on ladder for a sponsor
On August 31 2019 19:34 Alejandrisha wrote: i mean spades and that zerg who played under the tag of some energy drink held rank 1 on ladder for a while and no one caught them hacking til like a few weeks to a few months after
zerg desukai? some one here knows..
edit: and it's absolutely worth it for some people. spades was playing online cups, desuki was playing for #1 spot on ladder for a sponsor
And some people just legitimately don't care, will have more fun if they win 80% of their games instead of the 65% that they deserve. Being able to see unit positions on minimap & having production tab of your opponent the whole game gives such a huge edge to players that are already good, yet it produces a lot of games where there is still somewhat plausible deniability since any one replay can look like they just got lucky or predicted the game state really well.. until they slip up a bunch of times.
yeah. in the hands of a noob, it can bring you from 0 to top 200-500 on ladder, or ~150 to #1 in the hands of a user who knows what they are doing. very scary for tournaments that use online quals
On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote: Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry.
No you dont.
I understand you're an organizer and selling the idea that SC2 isn't infested with hacks is one of your priorities, it drives donations for events, keeps the viewers interested, and keeps E-sports from going under.
Watch the stream for a full 8 hours and see the irrefutable evidence provided 5 or more times a day. Not that you'll watch the replay since it's easier to degrade people who are less popular than you are but here's an example of a cheater I run into 5+ times a day:
Team: <Follow>Qoas aka: Suzy (hacker) and 천재님 Team: llllllllllll(me) and 옛날유저
TR vs RR
Perfect meta opens from suzy and his team mate ( unscouted ) basically they knew it was TZ vs TZ hence the 2fac/ling open.
11:44: Load up for a drop and drop the left side of the map. If you follow Qoas's camera you will see him use Camera Lock.
12:02-12:010 - Camera lock
12:10 - issues command right above team mates third base hatchery to intercept drop.
Bottom side of the map has zero vision, so to move your entire army to that location with no vision of the drop is 100% map hack.
Also for the record, if you check last season GM Aoa is the rank #15 grandmaster. This is the same player, he uses map hack and win trades for his MMR.
Trust me, it's there and I run into it all stream long.
Sorry I was logged into TaKeTV as I am now since I am working. I am NarutO - the German caster for TaKeTV. And I do not degrade you. I am simply saying you are not running into hackers 5 times a day. Yes there are maphacks and other hacks, yes people use them up the pretty much highest level. No - they are not used by the majority of players and no you do not run into 5 hackers (different ones even moreso) per day on average.
I am pretty sure that you would rather degrade me because I am working for an organization but I am or was a player myself when hacks were publicly available without pay and even at that time you didnt get as many hackers. I will take a wild guess and say that you are a very bitter person that cannot take a loss and everyone that beats you is a hacker rather than someone who played a better game.
Everything else you want to interpret into "No you dont" is up to you but it doesnt reflect what I said in a bit.
On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote: Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry.
No you dont.
I understand you're an organizer and selling the idea that SC2 isn't infested with hacks is one of your priorities, it drives donations for events, keeps the viewers interested, and keeps E-sports from going under.
Watch the stream for a full 8 hours and see the irrefutable evidence provided 5 or more times a day. Not that you'll watch the replay since it's easier to degrade people who are less popular than you are but here's an example of a cheater I run into 5+ times a day:
Team: <Follow>Qoas aka: Suzy (hacker) and 천재님 Team: llllllllllll(me) and 옛날유저
TR vs RR
Perfect meta opens from suzy and his team mate ( unscouted ) basically they knew it was TZ vs TZ hence the 2fac/ling open.
11:44: Load up for a drop and drop the left side of the map. If you follow Qoas's camera you will see him use Camera Lock.
12:02-12:010 - Camera lock
12:10 - issues command right above team mates third base hatchery to intercept drop.
Bottom side of the map has zero vision, so to move your entire army to that location with no vision of the drop is 100% map hack.
Also for the record, if you check last season GM Aoa is the rank #15 grandmaster. This is the same player, he uses map hack and win trades for his MMR.
Trust me, it's there and I run into it all stream long.
Sorry I was logged into TaKeTV as I am now since I am working. I am NarutO - the German caster for TaKeTV. And I do not degrade you. I am simply saying you are not running into hackers 5 times a day. Yes there are maphacks and other hacks, yes people use them up the pretty much highest level. No - they are not used by the majority of players and no you do not run into 5 hackers (different ones even moreso) per day on average.
I am pretty sure that you would rather degrade me because I am working for an organization but I am or was a player myself when hacks were publicly available without pay and even at that time you didnt get as many hackers. I will take a wild guess and say that you are a very bitter person that cannot take a loss and everyone that beats you is a hacker rather than someone who played a better game.
Everything else you want to interpret into "No you dont" is up to you but it doesnt reflect what I said in a bit.
you certainly haven't provided any data to say that he doesn't. he plays a lot of games in a bracket where people are generally ass holes so it wouldn't surprise me if he really did run into 5 unique hackers a day. simply posting 'no you don't' is kind of gauche and dismissive and your followup is not much better
On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote: Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry.
No you dont.
I understand you're an organizer and selling the idea that SC2 isn't infested with hacks is one of your priorities, it drives donations for events, keeps the viewers interested, and keeps E-sports from going under.
Watch the stream for a full 8 hours and see the irrefutable evidence provided 5 or more times a day. Not that you'll watch the replay since it's easier to degrade people who are less popular than you are but here's an example of a cheater I run into 5+ times a day:
Team: <Follow>Qoas aka: Suzy (hacker) and 천재님 Team: llllllllllll(me) and 옛날유저
TR vs RR
Perfect meta opens from suzy and his team mate ( unscouted ) basically they knew it was TZ vs TZ hence the 2fac/ling open.
11:44: Load up for a drop and drop the left side of the map. If you follow Qoas's camera you will see him use Camera Lock.
12:02-12:010 - Camera lock
12:10 - issues command right above team mates third base hatchery to intercept drop.
Bottom side of the map has zero vision, so to move your entire army to that location with no vision of the drop is 100% map hack.
Also for the record, if you check last season GM Aoa is the rank #15 grandmaster. This is the same player, he uses map hack and win trades for his MMR.
Trust me, it's there and I run into it all stream long.
Sorry I was logged into TaKeTV as I am now since I am working. I am NarutO - the German caster for TaKeTV. And I do not degrade you. I am simply saying you are not running into hackers 5 times a day. Yes there are maphacks and other hacks, yes people use them up the pretty much highest level. No - they are not used by the majority of players and no you do not run into 5 hackers (different ones even moreso) per day on average.
I am pretty sure that you would rather degrade me because I am working for an organization but I am or was a player myself when hacks were publicly available without pay and even at that time you didnt get as many hackers. I will take a wild guess and say that you are a very bitter person that cannot take a loss and everyone that beats you is a hacker rather than someone who played a better game.
Everything else you want to interpret into "No you dont" is up to you but it doesnt reflect what I said in a bit.
you certainly haven't provided any data to say that he doesn't. he plays a lot of games in a bracket where people are generally ass holes so it wouldn't surprise me if he really did run into 5 unique hackers a day. simply posting 'no you don't' is kind of gauche and dismissive and your followup is not much better
The issue with hackers is, you can hardly proof it. If you watch a ton of games, especially if you go towards higher level there are movement patterns you cannot really explain. Sometimes experience, sometimes luck, sometimes the pattern is based on a game they previously played so coincidence.
He provided one replay. If he wants me to look through 5 unique hackers, he better make very good and educated posts about them. I remember NaDa got banned from WGTour for "Hacking" when he was simply better and more experienced than anyone else. I got banned from a tournament in iccup for "maphacking" when it was a lucky move which resulted in devastating loss for my opponent.
For hackers I believe we should stand at "not guilty until proven" - which he cant. I dont think its a healthy statement either to say "I am only losing to hackers" basically.
On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote: Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry.
No you dont.
I understand you're an organizer and selling the idea that SC2 isn't infested with hacks is one of your priorities, it drives donations for events, keeps the viewers interested, and keeps E-sports from going under.
Watch the stream for a full 8 hours and see the irrefutable evidence provided 5 or more times a day. Not that you'll watch the replay since it's easier to degrade people who are less popular than you are but here's an example of a cheater I run into 5+ times a day:
Team: <Follow>Qoas aka: Suzy (hacker) and 천재님 Team: llllllllllll(me) and 옛날유저
TR vs RR
Perfect meta opens from suzy and his team mate ( unscouted ) basically they knew it was TZ vs TZ hence the 2fac/ling open.
11:44: Load up for a drop and drop the left side of the map. If you follow Qoas's camera you will see him use Camera Lock.
12:02-12:010 - Camera lock
12:10 - issues command right above team mates third base hatchery to intercept drop.
Bottom side of the map has zero vision, so to move your entire army to that location with no vision of the drop is 100% map hack.
Also for the record, if you check last season GM Aoa is the rank #15 grandmaster. This is the same player, he uses map hack and win trades for his MMR.
Trust me, it's there and I run into it all stream long.
Sorry I was logged into TaKeTV as I am now since I am working. I am NarutO - the German caster for TaKeTV. And I do not degrade you. I am simply saying you are not running into hackers 5 times a day. Yes there are maphacks and other hacks, yes people use them up the pretty much highest level. No - they are not used by the majority of players and no you do not run into 5 hackers (different ones even moreso) per day on average.
I am pretty sure that you would rather degrade me because I am working for an organization but I am or was a player myself when hacks were publicly available without pay and even at that time you didnt get as many hackers. I will take a wild guess and say that you are a very bitter person that cannot take a loss and everyone that beats you is a hacker rather than someone who played a better game.
Everything else you want to interpret into "No you dont" is up to you but it doesnt reflect what I said in a bit.
you certainly haven't provided any data to say that he doesn't. he plays a lot of games in a bracket where people are generally ass holes so it wouldn't surprise me if he really did run into 5 unique hackers a day. simply posting 'no you don't' is kind of gauche and dismissive and your followup is not much better
The issue with hackers is, you can hardly proof it. If you watch a ton of games, especially if you go towards higher level there are movement patterns you cannot really explain. Sometimes experience, sometimes luck, sometimes the pattern is based on a game they previously played so coincidence.
He provided one replay. If he wants me to look through 5 unique hackers, he better make very good and educated posts about them. I remember NaDa got banned from WGTour for "Hacking" when he was simply better and more experienced than anyone else. I got banned from a tournament in iccup for "maphacking" when it was a lucky move which resulted in devastating loss for my opponent.
For hackers I believe we should stand at "not guilty until proven" - which he cant. I dont think its a healthy statement either to say "I am only losing to hackers" basically.
i've gotten banned from cs 1.6 esea pugs for 'hacking' too, even though i was not. he was not making the statement that he 'only loses to hackers' as you say. he was just saying that it is prevalent. and that i do believe. there is little to lose for big name players who can qualify online for cups via ladder. if they are good at hiding it, they will be 10x better online. they don't care about offline results; just qualifying online is good for $$ and that you cannot deny.
i don't know why you are taking opposing stance. you should be furious this plague is running rampant in your community
On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote: Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry.
No you dont.
I understand you're an organizer and selling the idea that SC2 isn't infested with hacks is one of your priorities, it drives donations for events, keeps the viewers interested, and keeps E-sports from going under.
Watch the stream for a full 8 hours and see the irrefutable evidence provided 5 or more times a day. Not that you'll watch the replay since it's easier to degrade people who are less popular than you are but here's an example of a cheater I run into 5+ times a day:
Team: <Follow>Qoas aka: Suzy (hacker) and 천재님 Team: llllllllllll(me) and 옛날유저
TR vs RR
Perfect meta opens from suzy and his team mate ( unscouted ) basically they knew it was TZ vs TZ hence the 2fac/ling open.
11:44: Load up for a drop and drop the left side of the map. If you follow Qoas's camera you will see him use Camera Lock.
12:02-12:010 - Camera lock
12:10 - issues command right above team mates third base hatchery to intercept drop.
Bottom side of the map has zero vision, so to move your entire army to that location with no vision of the drop is 100% map hack.
Also for the record, if you check last season GM Aoa is the rank #15 grandmaster. This is the same player, he uses map hack and win trades for his MMR.
Trust me, it's there and I run into it all stream long.
Sorry I was logged into TaKeTV as I am now since I am working. I am NarutO - the German caster for TaKeTV. And I do not degrade you. I am simply saying you are not running into hackers 5 times a day. Yes there are maphacks and other hacks, yes people use them up the pretty much highest level. No - they are not used by the majority of players and no you do not run into 5 hackers (different ones even moreso) per day on average.
I am pretty sure that you would rather degrade me because I am working for an organization but I am or was a player myself when hacks were publicly available without pay and even at that time you didnt get as many hackers. I will take a wild guess and say that you are a very bitter person that cannot take a loss and everyone that beats you is a hacker rather than someone who played a better game.
Everything else you want to interpret into "No you dont" is up to you but it doesnt reflect what I said in a bit.
you certainly haven't provided any data to say that he doesn't. he plays a lot of games in a bracket where people are generally ass holes so it wouldn't surprise me if he really did run into 5 unique hackers a day. simply posting 'no you don't' is kind of gauche and dismissive and your followup is not much better
There are hackers in team games, but not as rampant as Protech thinks. Sometimes you run into two 5.7k+ players and they will just straight up obliterate you. The issue with Protech is that whenever he loses in team games, it's either "my teammate was an idiot" or "this guy is hacking!". While they both are valid points, it never occurs in his mind that there ARE people in this game better than him. When you mass enough 2s games, you know where all the common proxy locations are and you check for them. There are certain optimized builds for 2s that you prepare for. Blind countering certain builds or scouting in common proxy locations does not mean someone is hacking. If you call everyone you lose to a hacker, it'll eventually be true.
On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote: Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
What i've learned is that they tend to go away if you just leave the game, since I'm pretty sure they're just out to make you angry.
No you dont.
I understand you're an organizer and selling the idea that SC2 isn't infested with hacks is one of your priorities, it drives donations for events, keeps the viewers interested, and keeps E-sports from going under.
Watch the stream for a full 8 hours and see the irrefutable evidence provided 5 or more times a day. Not that you'll watch the replay since it's easier to degrade people who are less popular than you are but here's an example of a cheater I run into 5+ times a day:
Team: <Follow>Qoas aka: Suzy (hacker) and 천재님 Team: llllllllllll(me) and 옛날유저
TR vs RR
Perfect meta opens from suzy and his team mate ( unscouted ) basically they knew it was TZ vs TZ hence the 2fac/ling open.
11:44: Load up for a drop and drop the left side of the map. If you follow Qoas's camera you will see him use Camera Lock.
12:02-12:010 - Camera lock
12:10 - issues command right above team mates third base hatchery to intercept drop.
Bottom side of the map has zero vision, so to move your entire army to that location with no vision of the drop is 100% map hack.
Also for the record, if you check last season GM Aoa is the rank #15 grandmaster. This is the same player, he uses map hack and win trades for his MMR.
Trust me, it's there and I run into it all stream long.
Sorry I was logged into TaKeTV as I am now since I am working. I am NarutO - the German caster for TaKeTV. And I do not degrade you. I am simply saying you are not running into hackers 5 times a day. Yes there are maphacks and other hacks, yes people use them up the pretty much highest level. No - they are not used by the majority of players and no you do not run into 5 hackers (different ones even moreso) per day on average.
I am pretty sure that you would rather degrade me because I am working for an organization but I am or was a player myself when hacks were publicly available without pay and even at that time you didnt get as many hackers. I will take a wild guess and say that you are a very bitter person that cannot take a loss and everyone that beats you is a hacker rather than someone who played a better game.
Everything else you want to interpret into "No you dont" is up to you but it doesnt reflect what I said in a bit.
you certainly haven't provided any data to say that he doesn't. he plays a lot of games in a bracket where people are generally ass holes so it wouldn't surprise me if he really did run into 5 unique hackers a day. simply posting 'no you don't' is kind of gauche and dismissive and your followup is not much better
There are hackers in team games, but not as rampant as Protech thinks. Sometimes you run into two 5.7k+ players and they will just straight up obliterate you. The issue with Protech is that whenever he loses in team games, it's either "my teammate was an idiot" or "this guy is hacking!". While they both are valid points, it never occurs in his mind that there ARE people in this game better than him. When you mass enough 2s games, you know where all the common proxy locations are and you check for them. There are certain optimized builds for 2s that you prepare for. Blind countering certain builds or scouting in common proxy locations does not mean someone is hacking. If you call everyone you lose to a hacker, it'll eventually be true.
i don't care about what he has or has not said on stream since i do not watch. i'm just referring to what has been posted here.
Just a thought: Is there UI software using already available information on B-net in ways that are difficult or impossible to obtain manually? It could be:
-Reading match histories and posting average game lengths and common build orders for certain matchups. Poker players use simlar tools having agents spectate loads of games to snipe playstyles.
-Upon scouting a building calculating whan certain units can complete (like scouting Hive-broodlords.)
-Calculating the best attack timing by the economy of either player (expecting good macro.)
-Calculating the opponent's warp-ins and inject-production cycles using available information.
Some of these might not be that helpful but would it be considered hacking or illegal??
On September 02 2019 01:34 Slydie wrote: Just a thought: Is there UI software using already available information on B-net in ways that are difficult or impossible to obtain manually? It could be:
-Reading match histories and posting average game lengths and common build orders for certain matchups. Poker players use simlar tools having agents spectate loads of games to snipe playstyles.
-Upon scouting a building calculating whan certain units can complete (like scouting Hive-broodlords.)
-Calculating the best attack timing by the economy of either player (expecting good macro.)
-Calculating the opponent's warp-ins and inject-production cycles using available information.
Some of these might not be that helpful but would it be considered hacking or illegal??
If you feed replays to an analysing tool (bot) , I wouldn't call it hacking. I would call it good preparation
On August 30 2019 03:15 Xamo wrote: Wow, nice post, I would have never imagined such advanced tools. What on Earth makes you spend $50 a month to win more in any video game? Seriously I do not get it. But if someone that does it is reading this, please realize you need help.
Their lives are miserable and it's the only way to feel better about themselves. I run into all the hacks mentioned in this thread at LEAST 5 times a day.
I have a lot of games against confirmed hackers semi recently but most of them are the same few guys over and over and over again because they go so long without being banned.
Some of them abuse flaws in the game to snipe you on purpose as you can see the queue status of any other player from within the game and there's nothing that they can do to hide it from you. Players should be able to queue without broadcasting that they're in a queue in order to prevent that kind of abuse, something that we somehow can't do 9 years after the game's release.
On August 30 2019 18:07 Haukinger wrote: That's why blizzard is against hacks in the first place, pay-to-win is a market, and they begrudge the programmers their revenue. The only grotesque thing in this that they don't include the features of the hacks in the game in the first place. It's not like the hacks change the rules like making units invulnerable, it's just quality-of-life improvements.
lol imagine Blizz would sell those hacks themselves.
You like the game but hate injecting? Buy auto-inject for 3,99 a month You hate it when you don't watch the screen for a second and 4 banelings blow up all your marines? Buy auto-splitt for 4,49 a month
20% of the incomes goes to the price pool of the WCS (World Cheat Series)
Don't give them ideas.
I'm scared
Actually though the UI should be better. I hate to look top right and bottom left.
Well, people pay for skins which, right now, are pure eye candy. A hell lot more people would pay a hell lot more money for fixing the ui. Perhaps one should combine both of them, a spikey baneling skin brings +1 armor along, while the marines with targeting laser automatically focus banelings... not to speak of a whole new level of meta of selecting skins depending on your opponent.
I would probably stop playing sc2 forever and I have loved the game for 10 years almost lmao
They could create a separate ladder for that mode of game play. That would be cool. Add in "hero units" a la Red Alert. etc etc.
On September 01 2019 03:42 Alejandrisha wrote:if they are good at hiding it, they will be 10x better online. they don't care about offline results; just qualifying online is good for $$ and that you cannot deny.
i don't know why you are taking opposing stance. you should be furious this plague is running rampant in your community
I'm not so sure it's that much of an opposing stance. Rather they know they're bad so, to be better than they could be, they punish themselves by spending seemingly a huge amount of money -- regularly -- to show off. Which is shitty, but don't remember every reading sc2-drama about someone hacking into/during a tournament or even getting close to a high finish.
The point I'm trying to make: Obviously there is some anti-hacking in sc2. We will never know how bad the situation would be without and the devs won't ever able to precisely say how often people use hacks. The goal to go for has to be proportionate:
1) so no / minimum amount of people undeservedly make online qualifiers and/or get (even small) sponsorships. 2) mapshacks have to be so rare = so expensive that using them can't pay off from small (online) tourney winnings.
If Blizzards takes the second point into account, that's a very clear bar to plan around. Enforcing this -- and doing this continuously, as they like are -- obviously also improves ladder 'health'.
I'm curious how dota does it -- or other games, that is, where the monetary incentive is far higher than sc2.
On September 02 2019 01:34 Slydie wrote: Just a thought: Is there UI software using already available information on B-net in ways that are difficult or impossible to obtain manually? It could be:
-Reading match histories and posting average game lengths and common build orders for certain matchups. Poker players use simlar tools having agents spectate loads of games to snipe playstyles.
-Upon scouting a building calculating whan certain units can complete (like scouting Hive-broodlords.)
-Calculating the best attack timing by the economy of either player (expecting good macro.)
-Calculating the opponent's warp-ins and inject-production cycles using available information.
Some of these might not be that helpful but would it be considered hacking or illegal??
If you feed replays to an analysing tool (bot) , I wouldn't call it hacking. I would call it good preparation
I was not thinking Replays but rather the public info from match histories on player profiles. It should not be too hard to make!
By scanning the info of your ladder opponents and their opponents a couple of times, getting a database of all regular players around your MMR should not be too difficult.
The only way to stop this is figure out how much he makes every month/year selling his hacks. Pay him that or more, and have him convert over to white hat looking for other black hat hackers like him/
We could easily crowdsource or patreon him the money each month.
On September 05 2019 04:44 MarlieChurphy wrote: The only way to stop this is figure out how much he makes every month/year selling his hacks. Pay him that or more, and have him convert over to white hat looking for other black hat hackers like him/
We could easily crowdsource or patreon him the money each month.
Ah yes, I can't look forward to pay someone not to commit a crime against me!
On September 05 2019 04:44 MarlieChurphy wrote: The only way to stop this is figure out how much he makes every month/year selling his hacks. Pay him that or more, and have him convert over to white hat looking for other black hat hackers like him/
We could easily crowdsource or patreon him the money each month.
Ah yes, I can't look forward to pay someone not to commit a crime against me!
On September 05 2019 04:44 MarlieChurphy wrote: The only way to stop this is figure out how much he makes every month/year selling his hacks. Pay him that or more, and have him convert over to white hat looking for other black hat hackers like him/
We could easily crowdsource or patreon him the money each month.
It would be far better to have a community sourced aggressive anti-hack third party tool/launcher, which scans players RAM and somehow connects two matching players to assure that there are no current hacks, I honestly have got no idea how strong is SC2's API, but I don't think there is an alternative, Blizz as a company can't spend the resources needed to maintain a hack free SC2 experience, not only because of probably limited budget for SC2 specifically, but because of legal reasons, back in iirc 2005-8 ish Blizz was accused over and over again of deploying spyware on its users, specifically aggressive anti-hack toolkits
There was already drama about Epic's handling of their own anti-cheat kits on their Fortnite/Epic Launcher, given currents community feelings and perceptions I wouldn't be surprised if such an outrage could spark once again if it became known that "Blizz is spying on people"...
So, yeah, from my perspective Blizz simply doesn't quite have enough incentives to overcome the drawbacks and potential big PR backlash in order to deploy aggressive antihack tools, so it needs be left to the community
The easy solution that will come to us in 5-10 years anyway is streaming games. You can't hack if you have zero data on your client (or maybe you can. I don't know shit about hacking).
On September 05 2019 22:56 Harris1st wrote: The easy solution that will come to us in 5-10 years anyway is streaming games. You can't hack if you have zero data on your client (or maybe you can. I don't know shit about hacking).
But this WILL cut off 99% of hacks! Right? Right!
Depends on the technical solution and how the client is done. But this has bigger issues than hacking
On September 05 2019 22:56 Harris1st wrote: The easy solution that will come to us in 5-10 years anyway is streaming games. You can't hack if you have zero data on your client (or maybe you can. I don't know shit about hacking).
But this WILL cut off 99% of hacks! Right? Right!
Depends on the technical solution and how the client is done. But this has bigger issues than hacking
At least for rts it does, playing with 200 ms against someone with 100 ms (depending on how far away from the base server you live) is a real problem. But I guess you could code in that everyone gets 200 ms, the question is, would competetive sc2 be fun if everyone had 200ms? =P
But yeah, obviously hacking is a problem in the game but for me personally I only care if it effects tournaments or professional games. I mean for me on ladder at dia I don't care if I face a gold/plat leaguer with hacks. Since we are at similar mmr we are at the same skill level in total anyway, I don't mind facing a one handed guy that only plays with his mouse either. Obviously he is as skilled with one hand as I am with two and that is fine.
I understand that is really frustrating at the higher level though, high master and GM level. Because at that point the hackers can be so good there is actually a risk they will place into the top GM because the hacks can be that impactful if the player is good.
That is also really bad since if you are GM and has to play known maphackers you need to play in a different way than you would a normal player with means you are practising in a way that is not helpful in a normal fair game.
On September 06 2019 19:07 Shuffleblade wrote: But I guess you could code in that everyone gets 200 ms, the question is, would competetive sc2 be fun if everyone had 200ms? =P
That would be worth a thread of its own, better a mod. But not just 200ms, probably 1s is even better. I'd love to see that, essentially a game without micro, finally
@mod-coders looking for payed work: contact me, if you think you can create an enforced-lag-mod!
On September 05 2019 22:56 Harris1st wrote: The easy solution that will come to us in 5-10 years anyway is streaming games. You can't hack if you have zero data on your client (or maybe you can. I don't know shit about hacking).
But this WILL cut off 99% of hacks! Right? Right!
Depends on the technical solution and how the client is done. But this has bigger issues than hacking
At least for rts it does, playing with 200 ms against someone with 100 ms (depending on how far away from the base server you live) is a real problem. But I guess you could code in that everyone gets 200 ms, the question is, would competetive sc2 be fun if everyone had 200ms? =P
But yeah, obviously hacking is a problem in the game but for me personally I only care if it effects tournaments or professional games. I mean for me on ladder at dia I don't care if I face a gold/plat leaguer with hacks. Since we are at similar mmr we are at the same skill level in total anyway, I don't mind facing a one handed guy that only plays with his mouse either. Obviously he is as skilled with one hand as I am with two and that is fine.
I understand that is really frustrating at the higher level though, high master and GM level. Because at that point the hackers can be so good there is actually a risk they will place into the top GM because the hacks can be that impactful if the player is good.
That is also really bad since if you are GM and has to play known maphackers you need to play in a different way than you would a normal player with means you are practising in a way that is not helpful in a normal fair game.
I'm not much into fast shooters but I'm pretty sure they would have waaaaaay more trouble with 200ms lag delay than we would ever have in an RTS
On September 05 2019 22:56 Harris1st wrote: The easy solution that will come to us in 5-10 years anyway is streaming games. You can't hack if you have zero data on your client (or maybe you can. I don't know shit about hacking).
But this WILL cut off 99% of hacks! Right? Right!
Depends on the technical solution and how the client is done. But this has bigger issues than hacking
At least for rts it does, playing with 200 ms against someone with 100 ms (depending on how far away from the base server you live) is a real problem. But I guess you could code in that everyone gets 200 ms, the question is, would competetive sc2 be fun if everyone had 200ms? =P
But yeah, obviously hacking is a problem in the game but for me personally I only care if it effects tournaments or professional games. I mean for me on ladder at dia I don't care if I face a gold/plat leaguer with hacks. Since we are at similar mmr we are at the same skill level in total anyway, I don't mind facing a one handed guy that only plays with his mouse either. Obviously he is as skilled with one hand as I am with two and that is fine.
I understand that is really frustrating at the higher level though, high master and GM level. Because at that point the hackers can be so good there is actually a risk they will place into the top GM because the hacks can be that impactful if the player is good.
That is also really bad since if you are GM and has to play known maphackers you need to play in a different way than you would a normal player with means you are practising in a way that is not helpful in a normal fair game.
I'm not much into fast shooters but I'm pretty sure they would have waaaaaay more trouble with 200ms lag delay than we would ever have in an RTS
Lol, any kind of UI latency is a terrible idea. We can quite easily perceive the difference between a 12ms and 25ms cursor latency, let alone putting the screen through an encoder and then sending it to another PC across the internet.
sc2 already does have action latencies in the triple digit milliseconds but this doesn't affect any of the UI, cursor movement, camera movement and so on. If it did, it would ruin the game.
There are techniques how to avoid hacking, either through working tightly with Microsoft or implementing a proper safe code with frequent updates(you can just change keys for client/server weekly). The issue is that introducing solution via MS is expensive and it's like killing a mosquito via nuking from orbit and the second will increase hw requirements(unless you have a hardware support nobody here has )
To put it simply, hacks will be present even if you do think properly(considering the fact Blizzard made some decisions to lower the requirements of the game which were not "best practice" even back then).
Firstly that’s some diligent work OP, well done with that.
Aside from the hacking element, I think some of the other stuff would have a lot of potential as a training mod/UI if it was implemented officially.
We’re just off our yearly LAN here, enthusiasm is high and new folks want to jump in, and we run into the same issues in bridging the gap between casual campaign play and playing 1v1. We’re experimenting with pairing folks with experienced players and trying to teach/demonstrate things in game while keeping players in game.
It’s such a daunting task for anyone new, especially without RTS experience to learn all the stuff even scrubs like me take for granted, plus it involves a lot of doing stuff outside the game.
Watch guides and video tutorials Try to play Try to watch and analyse replays, often when you don’t have the actual knowledge yet to know how to identify flaws Etc
It really segments your time and cuts into your time actually playing the game. It feels to me a tool like this would be great for learning the game, as a mod you could use in customs. Like training wheels on a bike, rather than ‘go watch these guides on riding a bike and go ride a bike’
It is rather bloody sad that me and local community guys were discussing how to bring and keep new blood in our scene earlier this week and I see a thread where a tool people pay to use to cheat a game actually looks ideal in many of its features
EPT
: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/cx0z72/current_state_of_maphack_in_starcraft_ii_2019/![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Pc5XcT2.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/uDHe8QJ.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/wzpbNPm.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/7ZzLkZ2.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/6JoZClZ.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/a7ipzfx.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/vHZao4n.png)
Patches for comparison![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/GMiJ9lA.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/3iBSPVC.png)
People complain about balance all the time, can't imagine what colossal complaining that would cause.. and it would probably wreck competitive play.
