EPTCode S champs Dark, Maru fall on day 1 of GSL vs. The Worl…
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Grampz
United States2147 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33360 Posts
On August 16 2019 03:26 Elentos wrote: Not just that dude. Steady income. That makes staying a pro worth it even if things aren't going amazingly in tournaments for you for a time. The top players have kept playing but over the years we've lost most of the "faceless Koreans who can't do anything in Korea but still dominate everyone at Dreamhack" crowd. Those guys were important to keep the level of practice high. Well, I think the more important thing was that salaries were closely tied to Proleague results, and Proleague was held regularly for a good chunk of the year. Basically, weekly motivation to practice tied to direct financial benefit for 8+ months of the year. Yeah yeah, idealistically we wanna believe pros are 100% motivated all the time, and spend those X months between Code S Ro32 eliminations doing their best, but they're just humans like the rest of us (except elfi). The kind of extremely weekly pressure tied to your livelihood from the Proleague days must have helped their skill level (and no wonder they consider it the most stressful days of their careers). | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On August 16 2019 05:58 Grampz wrote: Lot of inconsistency in the pro scene lately After the absolute domination Serral and Maru showcased last year we are back to a more common situation. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15928 Posts
On August 16 2019 05:56 Xain0n wrote: Hm, I literally said that? I don't think, however, that top koreans are worse than they used to be and I don't agree that lots of players are WAY past their primes(soO won his biggest tournament in 2019, Inno beat both Maru and Serral to win WESG while the others you mentioned were super competitive the last time in 2017 even if herO is still playing at a very respectable level; you get Maru, Rogue and Trap in return, for example). What you are stating now doesn't get on well with calling Maru's Code S streak the biggest achievement of all time or valuing his 2018 as high as you do if the korean scene weak as you make it to be. I agree that Code S was harder in the past because it was denser and qualifying was a feat in itself but once you get to ro16 or ro8 the level is still very high. every top player that gets removed from the player pool decreases the available quality of practice so logically the top players won't be able to reach the skill level they'd be able to reach otherwise. not to mention the other factors like age, lack of teamhouse environment, lack of weekly Proleague pressure as explained above etc. No the top players aren't as good as they were a few years back (maybe with a few exceptions like Stats, Classic, Maru, arguably Dark but the rest definitely got worse) soO won his biggest tournament in 2019 true - that doesn't mean though that he's anywhere near his level in 2014 so yes, he's past his peak. winning 1 tournament doesn't change that. I think I don't have to explain how far Inno is away from his peak level when he was crushing everyone. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On August 16 2019 07:39 Charoisaur wrote: every top player that gets removed from the player pool decreases the available quality of practice so logically the top players won't be able to reach the skill level they'd be able to reach otherwise. not to mention the other factors like age, lack of teamhouse environment, lack of weekly Proleague pressure as explained above etc. No the top players aren't as good as they were a few years back (maybe with a few exceptions like Stats, Classic, Maru, arguably Dark but the rest definitely got worse) soO won his biggest tournament in 2019 true - that doesn't mean though that he's anywhere near his level in 2014 so yes, he's past his peak. winning 1 tournament doesn't change that. I think I don't have to explain how far Inno is away from his peak level when he was crushing everyone. We already know that you can reach astonishing levels even in weaker fields(Serral 2018?); can you actually observe a decrease in skill when you watch the games? There are players who got worse and players who got better(Trap is missing) and weirdly so Stats and Classic improved in relatively old age. Being past your prime does not necessarily imply you are playing terribly and KeSpa regime wasn't gold for everyone, there are some who thrive in freedom(see Byun). By the way, you did not clarify how can Code S still be so hard and prestigious if sc2 in Korea has declined that much. You miss b teamers and you miss new blood, but even without depth the skill ceiling is very high. | ||
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rickzou
46 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25107 Posts
On August 16 2019 08:16 Xain0n wrote: We already know that you can reach astonishing levels even in weaker fields(Serral 2018?); can you actually observe a decrease in skill when you watch the games? There are players who got worse and players who got better(Trap is missing) and weirdly so Stats and Classic improved in relatively old age. Being past your prime does not necessarily imply you are playing terribly and KeSpa regime wasn't gold for everyone, there are some who thrive in freedom(see Byun). By the way, you did not clarify how can Code S still be so hard and prestigious if sc2 in Korea has declined that much. You miss b teamers and you miss new blood, but even without depth the skill ceiling is very high. I’m not sure people can, if we were to remove certain markers really spot a real decline in absolute top level play, maybe it’s there as I had a gap in my viewership but a Serral, Stats, Maru or Dark or whoever on top form it seems pretty damn high still to me. Granted I’m not sure many who trash foreigners could actually discern top foreigners from many Koreans if we took away such signifiers either. | ||
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FunZzz
2 Posts
On August 15 2019 23:05 Danjiapao wrote: As a Chinese, I can't imagine TIME winning so easily I think that is not a ez series, but it is still a nice game Congratulate to TIME | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25107 Posts
On August 16 2019 09:59 Morbidius wrote: Well there's Dota TI to watch and almost all of the good players on GSL vs the World are already out so thank god i don't need to waste a second more on this mess of a game. And Blizzard is still deciding on which version of their patch they're going to deploy while we watch Katowice repeating itself for 6 months. Hope whoever's left enjoys watching infested terrans shooting at interceptors for 20 minutes. Well ok but could you not waste your valuable seconds posting about it while you’re at it? Not sure what you’re even specifically complaining about here :S Blizzard not implementing a patch they never said they’d implement for this tournament or what? BL/Infestor, which despite me not being a fan of it compositionally probably saw the most nailbiting game of the day in soO v TIME game two when deployed? | ||
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ThunderJunk
United States677 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19231 Posts
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col_jung
139 Posts
- Elazer vs Dark: You could tell the latest GSL champ's pre-match interview tone was different this time, and for good reason. Like Artosis said: "There's only so many times you can say you'll crush the foreigners only to be beaten". The rest is history. Twitch chat were horribly savage towards Elazer at the start and I'm happy he put the doubters in their place. Bad luck Dark though! You could tell he was feeling a bit emo during the Team Selections afterwards haha. As much of a troll/BM Dark is, he's quite a nice guy in real life. Every time I met him at the GSL studios he was always happy to have a quick chat and photo op. - TIME vs soO: TIME was AMAZING at ASUS Rog and I honestly felt Serral was lucky he even won. For this match, I knew he was going to be on the ball again during that initial marine/tank push. Such crisp micro and execution--it felt like I was watching Maru, Byun or Bomber at his prime. The mech game wasn't even that bad either--he's quite a masterful harasser and managed to keep soO at bay in order to remax on Thors several times. With that said TIME was pretty lucky he won that game--those Cyclones reinforcements came just in the nick of time. This young Chinese player is just incredible and I hope he keeps it up. His TvZ right now is among the best in the world, although we've yet to see whether his ultra TvZ late-game is up there with Maru and TY. - Maru vs Stats: Won't lie, this was sad. Maru's my fav but I had a feeling Stats might beat him. - Neeb vs Showtime: Close series. Better luck next time Showtime! Today's match: Hoping TY can take it against Serral. Would love him to get revenge for HomeStory Cup. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
On August 16 2019 11:13 BisuDagger wrote: Is Maru that bad, is Stats that good, or is TvP imbalanced? I think Stats is that good for sure. Maru not winning outside of proxy era is really disappointing. I really wish he would win more to reaffirm that he really is a top notch player. I personally feel whenever I watch him win its because the first five minutes were dominated by aggression or gimics. He just doesn't seem like the player was was when he won SSL or even his 2017 form. the first two are correct | ||
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ChinClassic
19 Posts
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
On August 16 2019 11:55 ChinClassic wrote: It is a sad day for Liquibet. It's okay, it sounds like everyone else lost just as hard. | ||
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mpmaley86
115 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4906 Posts
On August 16 2019 11:13 BisuDagger wrote: Is Maru that bad, is Stats that good, or is TvP imbalanced? I think Stats is that good for sure. Maru not winning outside of proxy era is really disappointing. I really wish he would win more to reaffirm that he really is a top notch player. I personally feel whenever I watch him win its because the first five minutes were dominated by aggression or gimics. He just doesn't seem like the player was was when he won SSL or even his 2017 form. His 4th GSL win was outside of the proxy meta | ||
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Meeii
155 Posts
On August 15 2019 23:55 AttackZerg wrote: I could. He has had some of the most well thought out builds tvz in the last while. He also exploits map features more regularly then everyone else. I thought Serral was lucky to beat him in asus rog. Yeah he I think he can go far as long as he keep going bio. I think he lost every single battle mech game he did against Serral and even if he sometimes got into a good position he couldn't finish it. | ||
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Shathe
Hungary422 Posts
It was a great and close series , its crazy how much worse Dark's zvz is than his other matchups, which are god tier. About Maru i dont know, he doesnt seem to have the hunger to win. Disappointed in him | ||
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