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Nice to see Serral back in convincing fashion. He looked absolutely brutal!!
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On May 20 2019 16:55 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2019 16:50 Ej_ wrote:
Imagine you win a big tournament and the first reaction numerous people have is bad mouthing it and other competitors. While I don't like it either, let's use a football example. Czech football league just crowned their champion - Slavia Prague. Imagine their fans to say - now they're the bestest everest and they're better than all the other teams. While some other fans will tell them this championship title isn't even comparable to top4 in the Premier LEague  (considering their match on Chelsea... nah, it isn't  ) It's not the best comparison, but many people just go against "Serral just proves he;s the bestest everst" (except few) Show nested quote +On May 20 2019 16:54 Veluvian wrote:On May 20 2019 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:On May 20 2019 16:17 Veluvian wrote:
Many people wish to see Serral in GSL, but to be honest now we are living in a better scenario. Serral should keep focusing upon WGS's premier tournaments the year, not because he'll still dominate for a while, but he is the only opportunity to make other non-Korean players to improve and he can set a well working competitive environment. Serral could be one of the reasons to see in the future more shocks of defeated koreans by non-koreans in top tier tournaments, because he sets a high standard in every circuit where he plays. I know that for some pro-s this could sound bad, but do you really want to play better tomorrow? Serral is probably the best player I've ever seen in SCII history yet, but he will eventually start losing some day. I'm a Dark fan, but Serral is THE zerg, THE perfection at this moment and I cannot deny it.
Yes, koreans still can dominate, but we don't see how non-koreans are drastically humiliated anymore like how that happened in the past years. During Serral dominance Neeb improved a lot, we got Ranor doing well and shocked in GSL once last year, Special is like walking on his own path, no sure for Showtime yet, but this is how I look the future. That's not true, they will improve in ZvX. (which is why so many Zergs in WCS look so good in ZvZ but bad in anything else(except Serral) Serral in WCS doesn't improve PvT, PvP & TvT. While he improves overall mechanics it's not enough to improve in MU on this level. (also let's not pretend RO32 Code S didn't fall down, except for a surprise here and there it's pretty stable to predict who will advance) Edit> You were not watchin GSL vs The World? Blizzcon? IEM? Except Serral(who is good), Neeb & mjr Special(both in a good form) foreigner were demolished. Yes, I know what I've watched. Watch carefully the match between Neeb and TY in GSL Season 3 last year. Yes, TY defeated him, but nothing was certain until the last seconds of the whole epic match. And it was no different in the Blizzcon group A when they met again. And I didn't use to be a Neeb fan at all but I was so impressed! Progress is not always in numbers and statistics in the beginning, time is needed and then we shall see who is right and who is wrong. I love how you selected the player I wrote as an exception, there were always foreigners which were the exception to the rule(e.g. NaNiwa, ThorZaiN, Scarlett)
I must have missed Slavia Praga winning Champions League last year with other czech teams making deep runs in european leagues; your comparison is off, the distance between Premier League and Czech First League is enormous if compared to the one between Code S and WCS.
There is a higher number of stronger players in Code S, for sure but that didn't stop foreigners not named Serral from doing pretty well lately; no one in Code S is as strong as Maru in the format(many are better than him you have to play in weekenders).
Dark's streak against non koreans ended years ago, he is deadly but not untouchable anymore; his ZvZ is not strong enough for me to be convinced he could dominate the Circuit.
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Nice to see all arguments but I really think suspending region lock would do good for the scene.
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Katowice25012 Posts
the S in "WCS" stands for serral
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Serral 4-0 Special is quite serious. Full congrats to Serral.
Some people (Pig, Incontrol and Zombiegrub to name a few) have said that the gap between Koreans and foreigners has decreased a lot. But I have to agree with Artosis when he said - 'Serral is the exception not the rule'. I hope Special can put forward a great GSL showing in the round 16 still and that Serral will test himself in a GSL season soon
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On May 20 2019 12:42 ProtoisProtois wrote:
some people forgot that Serral is world champion and he used to smash top koreans. he won anyone .. he rekt dark 3 times and their best protoss (stats) twice. he beat maru , inno and many more.. last times when he lost it was 2:3 (soO) mega close & best z v z , lost to reynor 3:4 and 3:4 to inno.. all was very close... serral is top 3 without a doubt . when ever serral lost 2:0 or 3:1?:D he is not like anyone
Serral got swept by Neeb in WESG
although it was "just" a group match
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Canada11355 Posts
Serral's multitasking vs liberator harass is impeccable it sometimes looked as if his spore crawlers auto-moved to intercept them
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Northern Ireland27308 Posts
On May 20 2019 18:16 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2019 16:55 deacon.frost wrote:On May 20 2019 16:50 Ej_ wrote:
Imagine you win a big tournament and the first reaction numerous people have is bad mouthing it and other competitors. While I don't like it either, let's use a football example. Czech football league just crowned their champion - Slavia Prague. Imagine their fans to say - now they're the bestest everest and they're better than all the other teams. While some other fans will tell them this championship title isn't even comparable to top4 in the Premier LEague (considering their match on Chelsea... nah, it isn't ) It's not the best comparison, but many people just go against "Serral just proves he;s the bestest everst" (except few) On May 20 2019 16:54 Veluvian wrote:On May 20 2019 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:On May 20 2019 16:17 Veluvian wrote:
Many people wish to see Serral in GSL, but to be honest now we are living in a better scenario. Serral should keep focusing upon WGS's premier tournaments the year, not because he'll still dominate for a while, but he is the only opportunity to make other non-Korean players to improve and he can set a well working competitive environment. Serral could be one of the reasons to see in the future more shocks of defeated koreans by non-koreans in top tier tournaments, because he sets a high standard in every circuit where he plays. I know that for some pro-s this could sound bad, but do you really want to play better tomorrow? Serral is probably the best player I've ever seen in SCII history yet, but he will eventually start losing some day. I'm a Dark fan, but Serral is THE zerg, THE perfection at this moment and I cannot deny it.
Yes, koreans still can dominate, but we don't see how non-koreans are drastically humiliated anymore like how that happened in the past years. During Serral dominance Neeb improved a lot, we got Ranor doing well and shocked in GSL once last year, Special is like walking on his own path, no sure for Showtime yet, but this is how I look the future. That's not true, they will improve in ZvX. (which is why so many Zergs in WCS look so good in ZvZ but bad in anything else(except Serral) Serral in WCS doesn't improve PvT, PvP & TvT. While he improves overall mechanics it's not enough to improve in MU on this level. (also let's not pretend RO32 Code S didn't fall down, except for a surprise here and there it's pretty stable to predict who will advance) Edit> You were not watchin GSL vs The World? Blizzcon? IEM? Except Serral(who is good), Neeb & mjr Special(both in a good form) foreigner were demolished. Yes, I know what I've watched. Watch carefully the match between Neeb and TY in GSL Season 3 last year. Yes, TY defeated him, but nothing was certain until the last seconds of the whole epic match. And it was no different in the Blizzcon group A when they met again. And I didn't use to be a Neeb fan at all but I was so impressed! Progress is not always in numbers and statistics in the beginning, time is needed and then we shall see who is right and who is wrong. I love how you selected the player I wrote as an exception, there were always foreigners which were the exception to the rule(e.g. NaNiwa, ThorZaiN, Scarlett) I must have missed Slavia Praga winning Champions League last year with other czech teams making deep runs in european leagues; your comparison is off, the distance between Premier League and Czech First League is enormous if compared to the one between Code S and WCS. There is a higher number of stronger players in Code S, for sure but that didn't stop foreigners not named Serral from doing pretty well lately; no one in Code S is as strong as Maru in the format(many are better than him you have to play in weekenders). Dark's streak against non koreans ended years ago, he is deadly but not untouchable anymore; his ZvZ is not strong enough for me to be convinced he could dominate the Circuit.
As a football fan I think Ajax is the more pertinent example, or Monaco in recent years.
Make the Champions League semis, squads get picked apart by the big boys of Europe in more prestige leagues. End result is the big leagues just get stronger and the weak leagues get weaker and weaker over time
As a relatively neutral football fan, this process is gradually killing off my interest in the game, I’m not alone in this but alas I’m in the minority who are gradually become less tolerant of it and just not watching, rather than continuing while moaning.
Think I first started watching tail end of the 90s, since then Scotland can’t even compete at the Ro32 CL level, Belgium isn’t competitive there, Dutch teams need a crazy generation and hope they have a deep run in the singular year they get to keep them.
If Ajax keep together the best team they have since they won under van Gaal, sure maybe they stomp the Eredivisie but clubs there get a better standard to play against, plus perhaps more eyes are drawn on the league to watch a great Ajax team, sponsors eyes may follow and it might help other clubs.
Stacking Europe’s top leagues and top clubs with more and more of the talent may see a higher level of play at the very very top tier, but it might see negative ripples to everything else.
Region locking seems to have actually worked in improving the foreign scene and I like the structure that is there.
If anything Korea needs some love now, at least more prize money or another StarLeague to replace the SSL. I can’t think offhand of a top player they’ve produced since the team house structure got dismantled.
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Northern Ireland27308 Posts
On May 20 2019 18:37 AxiomBlurr wrote:Serral 4-0 Special is quite serious. Full congrats to Serral. Some people (Pig, Incontrol and Zombiegrub to name a few) have said that the gap between Koreans and foreigners has decreased a lot. But I have to agree with Artosis when he said - 'Serral is the exception not the rule'. I hope Special can put forward a great GSL showing in the round 16 still and that Serral will test himself in a GSL season soon
I think they’re both right though. Serral is still an outlier, but the gap has also closed too.
I think the area it’s closed most IMO is between the weaker GSL Ro32 players/those who intermittently qualify and the tier of foreigners directly beneath Neeb/Reynor/Scarlett/Special
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Finland965 Posts
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I hope his next challenge is to win several GSL.
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On May 20 2019 18:53 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2019 18:16 Xain0n wrote:On May 20 2019 16:55 deacon.frost wrote:On May 20 2019 16:50 Ej_ wrote:
Imagine you win a big tournament and the first reaction numerous people have is bad mouthing it and other competitors. While I don't like it either, let's use a football example. Czech football league just crowned their champion - Slavia Prague. Imagine their fans to say - now they're the bestest everest and they're better than all the other teams. While some other fans will tell them this championship title isn't even comparable to top4 in the Premier LEague (considering their match on Chelsea... nah, it isn't ) It's not the best comparison, but many people just go against "Serral just proves he;s the bestest everst" (except few) On May 20 2019 16:54 Veluvian wrote:On May 20 2019 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:On May 20 2019 16:17 Veluvian wrote:
Many people wish to see Serral in GSL, but to be honest now we are living in a better scenario. Serral should keep focusing upon WGS's premier tournaments the year, not because he'll still dominate for a while, but he is the only opportunity to make other non-Korean players to improve and he can set a well working competitive environment. Serral could be one of the reasons to see in the future more shocks of defeated koreans by non-koreans in top tier tournaments, because he sets a high standard in every circuit where he plays. I know that for some pro-s this could sound bad, but do you really want to play better tomorrow? Serral is probably the best player I've ever seen in SCII history yet, but he will eventually start losing some day. I'm a Dark fan, but Serral is THE zerg, THE perfection at this moment and I cannot deny it.
Yes, koreans still can dominate, but we don't see how non-koreans are drastically humiliated anymore like how that happened in the past years. During Serral dominance Neeb improved a lot, we got Ranor doing well and shocked in GSL once last year, Special is like walking on his own path, no sure for Showtime yet, but this is how I look the future. That's not true, they will improve in ZvX. (which is why so many Zergs in WCS look so good in ZvZ but bad in anything else(except Serral) Serral in WCS doesn't improve PvT, PvP & TvT. While he improves overall mechanics it's not enough to improve in MU on this level. (also let's not pretend RO32 Code S didn't fall down, except for a surprise here and there it's pretty stable to predict who will advance) Edit> You were not watchin GSL vs The World? Blizzcon? IEM? Except Serral(who is good), Neeb & mjr Special(both in a good form) foreigner were demolished. Yes, I know what I've watched. Watch carefully the match between Neeb and TY in GSL Season 3 last year. Yes, TY defeated him, but nothing was certain until the last seconds of the whole epic match. And it was no different in the Blizzcon group A when they met again. And I didn't use to be a Neeb fan at all but I was so impressed! Progress is not always in numbers and statistics in the beginning, time is needed and then we shall see who is right and who is wrong. I love how you selected the player I wrote as an exception, there were always foreigners which were the exception to the rule(e.g. NaNiwa, ThorZaiN, Scarlett) I must have missed Slavia Praga winning Champions League last year with other czech teams making deep runs in european leagues; your comparison is off, the distance between Premier League and Czech First League is enormous if compared to the one between Code S and WCS. There is a higher number of stronger players in Code S, for sure but that didn't stop foreigners not named Serral from doing pretty well lately; no one in Code S is as strong as Maru in the format(many are better than him you have to play in weekenders). Dark's streak against non koreans ended years ago, he is deadly but not untouchable anymore; his ZvZ is not strong enough for me to be convinced he could dominate the Circuit. As a football fan I think Ajax is the more pertinent example, or Monaco in recent years. Make the Champions League semis, squads get picked apart by the big boys of Europe in more prestige leagues. End result is the big leagues just get stronger and the weak leagues get weaker and weaker over time As a relatively neutral football fan, this process is gradually killing off my interest in the game, I’m not alone in this but alas I’m in the minority who are gradually become less tolerant of it and just not watching, rather than continuing while moaning. Think I first started watching tail end of the 90s, since then Scotland can’t even compete at the Ro32 CL level, Belgium isn’t competitive there, Dutch teams need a crazy generation and hope they have a deep run in the singular year they get to keep them. If Ajax keep together the best team they have since they won under van Gaal, sure maybe they stomp the Eredivisie but clubs there get a better standard to play against, plus perhaps more eyes are drawn on the league to watch a great Ajax team, sponsors eyes may follow and it might help other clubs. Stacking Europe’s top leagues and top clubs with more and more of the talent may see a higher level of play at the very very top tier, but it might see negative ripples to everything else. Region locking seems to have actually worked in improving the foreign scene and I like the structure that is there. If anything Korea needs some love now, at least more prize money or another StarLeague to replace the SSL. I can’t think offhand of a top player they’ve produced since the team house structure got dismantled.
Ajax FC was a major team in the seventies, it has too much history to be fitting(and the team of this year is going to be dismembered in a few months), Monaco wasn't exactly unknown as well but at least it didn't win at european Level.
National competitions may suffer a little if there aren't enough top teams to compete for the title, but european cups are simply amazing, I enjoy them.
Coming to sc2, I would love to see more international events.
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On May 20 2019 06:13 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2019 06:07 StarcraftSquall wrote:
I wish there was a way to convince Serral it’s a good idea to play a GSL Season. Really when you think about it, he’s done just about everything else. 👀 Yes, it would really be amazing. He has to go to Korea for GSL vs the World anyway.
Not only that, but he secured his spot at Blizzcon. If he'd be willing to take a leap and leave home for 6 months, he could really focus on GSL. Even if the first 3 months are getting used to a new lifestyle away from home.
Of course, some people have more problems with culture shock and homesickness than others, and if Serral really can't face an extended period away from Finland, then that's the end of that, but it really is the missing piece in his prize cabinet.
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Northern Ireland27308 Posts
On May 20 2019 19:46 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2019 18:53 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 20 2019 18:16 Xain0n wrote:On May 20 2019 16:55 deacon.frost wrote:On May 20 2019 16:50 Ej_ wrote:
Imagine you win a big tournament and the first reaction numerous people have is bad mouthing it and other competitors. While I don't like it either, let's use a football example. Czech football league just crowned their champion - Slavia Prague. Imagine their fans to say - now they're the bestest everest and they're better than all the other teams. While some other fans will tell them this championship title isn't even comparable to top4 in the Premier LEague (considering their match on Chelsea... nah, it isn't ) It's not the best comparison, but many people just go against "Serral just proves he;s the bestest everst" (except few) On May 20 2019 16:54 Veluvian wrote:On May 20 2019 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:On May 20 2019 16:17 Veluvian wrote:
Many people wish to see Serral in GSL, but to be honest now we are living in a better scenario. Serral should keep focusing upon WGS's premier tournaments the year, not because he'll still dominate for a while, but he is the only opportunity to make other non-Korean players to improve and he can set a well working competitive environment. Serral could be one of the reasons to see in the future more shocks of defeated koreans by non-koreans in top tier tournaments, because he sets a high standard in every circuit where he plays. I know that for some pro-s this could sound bad, but do you really want to play better tomorrow? Serral is probably the best player I've ever seen in SCII history yet, but he will eventually start losing some day. I'm a Dark fan, but Serral is THE zerg, THE perfection at this moment and I cannot deny it.
Yes, koreans still can dominate, but we don't see how non-koreans are drastically humiliated anymore like how that happened in the past years. During Serral dominance Neeb improved a lot, we got Ranor doing well and shocked in GSL once last year, Special is like walking on his own path, no sure for Showtime yet, but this is how I look the future. That's not true, they will improve in ZvX. (which is why so many Zergs in WCS look so good in ZvZ but bad in anything else(except Serral) Serral in WCS doesn't improve PvT, PvP & TvT. While he improves overall mechanics it's not enough to improve in MU on this level. (also let's not pretend RO32 Code S didn't fall down, except for a surprise here and there it's pretty stable to predict who will advance) Edit> You were not watchin GSL vs The World? Blizzcon? IEM? Except Serral(who is good), Neeb & mjr Special(both in a good form) foreigner were demolished. Yes, I know what I've watched. Watch carefully the match between Neeb and TY in GSL Season 3 last year. Yes, TY defeated him, but nothing was certain until the last seconds of the whole epic match. And it was no different in the Blizzcon group A when they met again. And I didn't use to be a Neeb fan at all but I was so impressed! Progress is not always in numbers and statistics in the beginning, time is needed and then we shall see who is right and who is wrong. I love how you selected the player I wrote as an exception, there were always foreigners which were the exception to the rule(e.g. NaNiwa, ThorZaiN, Scarlett) I must have missed Slavia Praga winning Champions League last year with other czech teams making deep runs in european leagues; your comparison is off, the distance between Premier League and Czech First League is enormous if compared to the one between Code S and WCS. There is a higher number of stronger players in Code S, for sure but that didn't stop foreigners not named Serral from doing pretty well lately; no one in Code S is as strong as Maru in the format(many are better than him you have to play in weekenders). Dark's streak against non koreans ended years ago, he is deadly but not untouchable anymore; his ZvZ is not strong enough for me to be convinced he could dominate the Circuit. As a football fan I think Ajax is the more pertinent example, or Monaco in recent years. Make the Champions League semis, squads get picked apart by the big boys of Europe in more prestige leagues. End result is the big leagues just get stronger and the weak leagues get weaker and weaker over time As a relatively neutral football fan, this process is gradually killing off my interest in the game, I’m not alone in this but alas I’m in the minority who are gradually become less tolerant of it and just not watching, rather than continuing while moaning. Think I first started watching tail end of the 90s, since then Scotland can’t even compete at the Ro32 CL level, Belgium isn’t competitive there, Dutch teams need a crazy generation and hope they have a deep run in the singular year they get to keep them. If Ajax keep together the best team they have since they won under van Gaal, sure maybe they stomp the Eredivisie but clubs there get a better standard to play against, plus perhaps more eyes are drawn on the league to watch a great Ajax team, sponsors eyes may follow and it might help other clubs. Stacking Europe’s top leagues and top clubs with more and more of the talent may see a higher level of play at the very very top tier, but it might see negative ripples to everything else. Region locking seems to have actually worked in improving the foreign scene and I like the structure that is there. If anything Korea needs some love now, at least more prize money or another StarLeague to replace the SSL. I can’t think offhand of a top player they’ve produced since the team house structure got dismantled. Ajax FC was a major team in the seventies, it has too much history to be fitting(and the team of this year is going to be dismembered in a few months), Monaco wasn't exactly unknown as well but at least it didn't win at european Level. National competitions may suffer a little if there aren't enough top teams to compete for the title, but european cups are simply amazing, I enjoy them. Coming to sc2, I would love to see more international events.
Well that it was, but it can’t be any more. It’s understandably difficult to get to that level, and rare my issue is more that when clubs start getting there they get dismantled.
Yeah another tournament would be sick. I think we only need one more big weekend international tournament circuit and another StarLeague.
I think that would fill the gaps that there are, another tournament where Serral etc can play Korea’s best, and another Korean StarLeague for both fans, but also I think importantly for prize money and opportunities for Korean players.
I think that would be a good balance for most concerned with the scene.
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Northern Ireland27308 Posts
On May 20 2019 20:02 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2019 06:13 Xain0n wrote:On May 20 2019 06:07 StarcraftSquall wrote:
I wish there was a way to convince Serral it’s a good idea to play a GSL Season. Really when you think about it, he’s done just about everything else. 👀 Yes, it would really be amazing. He has to go to Korea for GSL vs the World anyway. Not only that, but he secured his spot at Blizzcon. If he'd be willing to take a leap and leave home for 6 months, he could really focus on GSL. Even if the first 3 months are getting used to a new lifestyle away from home. Of course, some people have more problems with culture shock and homesickness than others, and if Serral really can't face an extended period away from Finland, then that's the end of that, but it really is the missing piece in his prize cabinet.
It’s definitely something the fans would like to see, myself included, ultimately I think it’s good for the scene structurally that is isn’t necessary to be a top player.
Just on the laws of probability alone there are going to be SC2 players prone to depression or other mental health issues, tbh I have zero candidates but I’m certain some players mystifying slumps are due just to that.
People are more understanding of issues around it now, I still think they’re a bit ignorant on the capabilities side cognitively, it’s not just feeling shit or unmotivated to do things, your brain can’t actually do things properly either even when you are trying.
I quit playing SC2 5 years ago when a session went so bad that I missed researching warp gate a few times, and the final straw was when I missed my 9 pylon. Gradually came back over the years, but it’s a frustrating enough game to play even if you feel sharp, if it’s your own brain letting you down it’s a rather fruitless endeavour.
I have zero idea what Serral’s like in any way, perhaps him being in a good, comfortable place is why his performances are so good, if he’s not, even in a better practice environment he might end up a worse player overall.
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Sad to see Special lose like that in the final. Serral made him look clueless. It looked like Special was not confident he could win from the start. It was all relatively safe play defending against a Zerg who is ahead in bases the whole game. Eventually you just run out of steam and get overrun. Special play was not decisive enough. I liked the first game, but he should have played even more defensive. Build 50 turrets and split the map like TY would do. He had no turrets and got overrun by mass corruptors. Just stay behind dozens of turrets and some siege tanks and mass BC until you have 180 supply of them. The moveouts against neural parasite feels weak. Range lib, turrets, mines and mass BC and split map. Let the Zerg figure that one out. Inno/Maru/TY are decisive and take a lot of risk. You need to take risk against Serral. In an even game he will win wear you down.
Special needs a coach who can help him with the gameplan for a finals like that. Just playing standard games is not going to work. He had a couple hours to prepare for the finals. He came out with 1 really interesting build but that was when he was already down 2-0.
I hope he learns from this. I want Special to win. He really deserves a big win.
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On May 20 2019 18:21 Stormhoof wrote:
Nice to see all arguments but I really think suspending region lock would do good for the scene.
I would favor a tournament lock over region lock any day
As it is right now, if region lock would be suspended S-Class Koreans would have it all and it would give nothing to upcoming Korean talent. Unfortunately tournament lock would also mean that players like Special would stick to WCS
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On May 20 2019 20:53 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2019 18:21 Stormhoof wrote:
Nice to see all arguments but I really think suspending region lock would do good for the scene. I would favor a tournament lock over region lock any day As it is right now, if region lock would be suspended S-Class Koreans would have it all and it would give nothing to upcoming Korean talent. Unfortunately tournament lock would also mean that players like Special would stick to WCS
The main problem is that weekenders are inherently set up to fly in from anywhere and compete, whereas preparation tournaments like GSL require you to commit to being on location for an extended period of time.
Imho, the best solution is to add a preparation tournament in the WCS circuit. Make a separate one for EU and for US to ensure travel distances to the studio aren't too insane from wherever in the region you live. The logistics are hard, but there has to be some kind of studio that can set this up? Maybe even make it offline up until the semi finals or so? Ensure that there are a lot of WCS points to be won in that tournament, and then remove the region lock from the weekenders.
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On May 20 2019 05:39 pvsnp wrote:
Special's TvP is much better than his TvZ, which is something of a problem in the foreign scene
But luckily a boon in gsl!
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On May 20 2019 18:53 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2019 18:16 Xain0n wrote:On May 20 2019 16:55 deacon.frost wrote:On May 20 2019 16:50 Ej_ wrote:
Imagine you win a big tournament and the first reaction numerous people have is bad mouthing it and other competitors. While I don't like it either, let's use a football example. Czech football league just crowned their champion - Slavia Prague. Imagine their fans to say - now they're the bestest everest and they're better than all the other teams. While some other fans will tell them this championship title isn't even comparable to top4 in the Premier LEague (considering their match on Chelsea... nah, it isn't ) It's not the best comparison, but many people just go against "Serral just proves he;s the bestest everst" (except few) On May 20 2019 16:54 Veluvian wrote:On May 20 2019 16:25 deacon.frost wrote:On May 20 2019 16:17 Veluvian wrote:
Many people wish to see Serral in GSL, but to be honest now we are living in a better scenario. Serral should keep focusing upon WGS's premier tournaments the year, not because he'll still dominate for a while, but he is the only opportunity to make other non-Korean players to improve and he can set a well working competitive environment. Serral could be one of the reasons to see in the future more shocks of defeated koreans by non-koreans in top tier tournaments, because he sets a high standard in every circuit where he plays. I know that for some pro-s this could sound bad, but do you really want to play better tomorrow? Serral is probably the best player I've ever seen in SCII history yet, but he will eventually start losing some day. I'm a Dark fan, but Serral is THE zerg, THE perfection at this moment and I cannot deny it.
Yes, koreans still can dominate, but we don't see how non-koreans are drastically humiliated anymore like how that happened in the past years. During Serral dominance Neeb improved a lot, we got Ranor doing well and shocked in GSL once last year, Special is like walking on his own path, no sure for Showtime yet, but this is how I look the future. That's not true, they will improve in ZvX. (which is why so many Zergs in WCS look so good in ZvZ but bad in anything else(except Serral) Serral in WCS doesn't improve PvT, PvP & TvT. While he improves overall mechanics it's not enough to improve in MU on this level. (also let's not pretend RO32 Code S didn't fall down, except for a surprise here and there it's pretty stable to predict who will advance) Edit> You were not watchin GSL vs The World? Blizzcon? IEM? Except Serral(who is good), Neeb & mjr Special(both in a good form) foreigner were demolished. Yes, I know what I've watched. Watch carefully the match between Neeb and TY in GSL Season 3 last year. Yes, TY defeated him, but nothing was certain until the last seconds of the whole epic match. And it was no different in the Blizzcon group A when they met again. And I didn't use to be a Neeb fan at all but I was so impressed! Progress is not always in numbers and statistics in the beginning, time is needed and then we shall see who is right and who is wrong. I love how you selected the player I wrote as an exception, there were always foreigners which were the exception to the rule(e.g. NaNiwa, ThorZaiN, Scarlett) I must have missed Slavia Praga winning Champions League last year with other czech teams making deep runs in european leagues; your comparison is off, the distance between Premier League and Czech First League is enormous if compared to the one between Code S and WCS. There is a higher number of stronger players in Code S, for sure but that didn't stop foreigners not named Serral from doing pretty well lately; no one in Code S is as strong as Maru in the format(many are better than him you have to play in weekenders). Dark's streak against non koreans ended years ago, he is deadly but not untouchable anymore; his ZvZ is not strong enough for me to be convinced he could dominate the Circuit. As a football fan I think Ajax is the more pertinent example, or Monaco in recent years. Make the Champions League semis, squads get picked apart by the big boys of Europe in more prestige leagues. End result is the big leagues just get stronger and the weak leagues get weaker and weaker over time As a relatively neutral football fan, this process is gradually killing off my interest in the game, I’m not alone in this but alas I’m in the minority who are gradually become less tolerant of it and just not watching, rather than continuing while moaning. Think I first started watching tail end of the 90s, since then Scotland can’t even compete at the Ro32 CL level, Belgium isn’t competitive there, Dutch teams need a crazy generation and hope they have a deep run in the singular year they get to keep them. If Ajax keep together the best team they have since they won under van Gaal, sure maybe they stomp the Eredivisie but clubs there get a better standard to play against, plus perhaps more eyes are drawn on the league to watch a great Ajax team, sponsors eyes may follow and it might help other clubs. Stacking Europe’s top leagues and top clubs with more and more of the talent may see a higher level of play at the very very top tier, but it might see negative ripples to everything else. Region locking seems to have actually worked in improving the foreign scene and I like the structure that is there. If anything Korea needs some love now, at least more prize money or another StarLeague to replace the SSL. I can’t think offhand of a top player they’ve produced since the team house structure got dismantled.
Isn't PSG winning the French league consistently? That's the reason why I picked Slavia. They won lower league(WCS) which is not even comparable to 4th place in the Premier League(Code S). I'm not comparing the teams, I'm comparing the competitions. The truth is that winning WCS means beating worse players than who are in Code S except few(currently Neeb, Serral, Scarlett, Reynor and mjr Special and only Neeb and Serral are consistent enough IMO))
Let's briefly check Serral's road to victory:
Clem, Kelazhur, Nerchio - not code S level.
Lambo, TIME, Reynor, Special - Reynor & Special are.
So, Serral had to defeat 2 good players. Anyone who gets out of Code S RO16 had the same path, they had to beat at least 2 good players. So while winning WCS is really nice and certainly is nice for Serral's bank account it's not that big of an achievement when looking at the bigger picture.
Fine, my example was extreme, but it's still valid. WCS victory isn't on par with Code S, FFS if you list the players who Serral faced some would say it's around RO16 level... I give it usually Code S RO4.
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