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Northern Ireland27308 Posts
On May 21 2019 18:09 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2019 05:32 Starcloud wrote:
Just another thread with same debate. Doesnt 99% here think that it goes this way, and we can stop it here, ok ? Below is my ranking. First is the bracket for Koreans and below it are foringers that can fit in that bracket (approx. of course). Occasionally, players can of course be higher or lower in those brackets, but general standing is something like this:
Korean top 1-4
Serral
Korean top 5-8
-
Korean top 9-14
Neeb
Korean top 15-20
Reynor
Special
Showtime
Scarlett
Easy, right ? I like this list. Showtime seems to be back in form. The 2019 Showtime before WCS Spring doesn't belong here. Other good foreigners are too unstable to be here, but maybe could qualify for a Ro32 GSL on a good day (Heromarine, Lambo, Drogo, Elazer) Edit: To the above poster: Pretty sure Serral plays regularly on KR ladder and has an account there with somewhere between 6k-7k MMR
True, good to see him back in form.
I really do think it’s a matter of on a good day too, but 10-15 foreigners could qualify for the GSL Ro32 IMO, at least l.
This really isn’t hyperbolic it’s watching the games of the worst players that scrape into it every season now, the reds usually a couple for whom Ro32 is clearly their ceiling on current shape, plus based on the foreigners who have qualified and where I’d place them on a top foreigner list.
It is cool that some of those players are returning legends and I hope they get into shape, so I’m not being critical of them as they do that.
It’s not just the usual suspects either, the foreign scene has a bunch of really talented players who are 17/18 and now have the WCS circuit to develop on further.
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On May 21 2019 21:30 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2019 18:09 Harris1st wrote:On May 21 2019 05:32 Starcloud wrote:
Just another thread with same debate. Doesnt 99% here think that it goes this way, and we can stop it here, ok ? Below is my ranking. First is the bracket for Koreans and below it are foringers that can fit in that bracket (approx. of course). Occasionally, players can of course be higher or lower in those brackets, but general standing is something like this:
Korean top 1-4
Serral
Korean top 5-8
-
Korean top 9-14
Neeb
Korean top 15-20
Reynor
Special
Showtime
Scarlett
Easy, right ? I like this list. Showtime seems to be back in form. The 2019 Showtime before WCS Spring doesn't belong here. Other good foreigners are too unstable to be here, but maybe could qualify for a Ro32 GSL on a good day (Heromarine, Lambo, Drogo, Elazer) Edit: To the above poster: Pretty sure Serral plays regularly on KR ladder and has an account there with somewhere between 6k-7k MMR True, good to see him back in form. I really do think it’s a matter of on a good day too, but 10-15 foreigners could qualify for the GSL Ro32 IMO, at least l. This really isn’t hyperbolic it’s watching the games of the worst players that scrape into it every season now, the reds usually a couple for whom Ro32 is clearly their ceiling on current shape, plus based on the foreigners who have qualified and where I’d place them on a top foreigner list. It is cool that some of those players are returning legends and I hope they get into shape, so I’m not being critical of them as they do that. It’s not just the usual suspects either, the foreign scene has a bunch of really talented players who are 17/18 and now have the WCS circuit to develop on further.
I mean if Zanster could qualify for GSL Ro32 literally any decent foreigner could.
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On May 22 2019 01:49 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2019 21:30 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 21 2019 18:09 Harris1st wrote:On May 21 2019 05:32 Starcloud wrote:
Just another thread with same debate. Doesnt 99% here think that it goes this way, and we can stop it here, ok ? Below is my ranking. First is the bracket for Koreans and below it are foringers that can fit in that bracket (approx. of course). Occasionally, players can of course be higher or lower in those brackets, but general standing is something like this:
Korean top 1-4
Serral
Korean top 5-8
-
Korean top 9-14
Neeb
Korean top 15-20
Reynor
Special
Showtime
Scarlett
Easy, right ? I like this list. Showtime seems to be back in form. The 2019 Showtime before WCS Spring doesn't belong here. Other good foreigners are too unstable to be here, but maybe could qualify for a Ro32 GSL on a good day (Heromarine, Lambo, Drogo, Elazer) Edit: To the above poster: Pretty sure Serral plays regularly on KR ladder and has an account there with somewhere between 6k-7k MMR True, good to see him back in form. I really do think it’s a matter of on a good day too, but 10-15 foreigners could qualify for the GSL Ro32 IMO, at least l. This really isn’t hyperbolic it’s watching the games of the worst players that scrape into it every season now, the reds usually a couple for whom Ro32 is clearly their ceiling on current shape, plus based on the foreigners who have qualified and where I’d place them on a top foreigner list. It is cool that some of those players are returning legends and I hope they get into shape, so I’m not being critical of them as they do that. It’s not just the usual suspects either, the foreign scene has a bunch of really talented players who are 17/18 and now have the WCS circuit to develop on further. I mean if Zanster could qualify for GSL Ro32 literally any decent foreigner could.
It really is too bad what happened to the depth of the KR scene. Looking back in the Kespa era even Code A was crazy stacked.
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I agree with the notion that Serral is the best player. However, since we believe that, we also want to see him challenged. Who knows how long his run will last which is why I wish he would go play at least one GSL Code S while he’s in the form he is currently. Code S provides a level of competition that is unavailable in the rest of the world. We don’t want to debate, we want to see how good he TRULY is. 👀
PS:
I was also disappointed that Neeb let himself get cheesed out against SpeCial in the semifinals because Neeb has been the one foreigner that has given him a tough time in series consistently other than Reynor. Maybe we’ll get that matchup one of these events. To be fair though... I don’t think anyone was stopping him Sunday. He was in Buzzsaw Mode. 😬
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On May 22 2019 01:49 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2019 21:30 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 21 2019 18:09 Harris1st wrote:On May 21 2019 05:32 Starcloud wrote:
Just another thread with same debate. Doesnt 99% here think that it goes this way, and we can stop it here, ok ? Below is my ranking. First is the bracket for Koreans and below it are foringers that can fit in that bracket (approx. of course). Occasionally, players can of course be higher or lower in those brackets, but general standing is something like this:
Korean top 1-4
Serral
Korean top 5-8
-
Korean top 9-14
Neeb
Korean top 15-20
Reynor
Special
Showtime
Scarlett
Easy, right ? I like this list. Showtime seems to be back in form. The 2019 Showtime before WCS Spring doesn't belong here. Other good foreigners are too unstable to be here, but maybe could qualify for a Ro32 GSL on a good day (Heromarine, Lambo, Drogo, Elazer) Edit: To the above poster: Pretty sure Serral plays regularly on KR ladder and has an account there with somewhere between 6k-7k MMR True, good to see him back in form. I really do think it’s a matter of on a good day too, but 10-15 foreigners could qualify for the GSL Ro32 IMO, at least l. This really isn’t hyperbolic it’s watching the games of the worst players that scrape into it every season now, the reds usually a couple for whom Ro32 is clearly their ceiling on current shape, plus based on the foreigners who have qualified and where I’d place them on a top foreigner list. It is cool that some of those players are returning legends and I hope they get into shape, so I’m not being critical of them as they do that. It’s not just the usual suspects either, the foreign scene has a bunch of really talented players who are 17/18 and now have the WCS circuit to develop on further. I mean if Zanster could qualify for GSL Ro32 literally any decent foreigner could.
Zanster qualified once out of how many tries?
Also pretty wrong statement to make regardless - I would only put him behind Serral/Lambo/Elazer/Reynor EU - close with Namshar perhaps a bit better - and would be number 1 NA lmao (Scarlett being Kr). Any "decent" foreigner implies nominal skill for a foreigner - which is way below Zanster.
Qualifying for code S once is a great achievement for a good foreigner.
Nobody is saying good foreigners would never qualify for code S - getting passed the gatekeepers though is very rare even for the better ones who have tried.
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On May 22 2019 09:24 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 01:49 Pandain wrote:On May 21 2019 21:30 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 21 2019 18:09 Harris1st wrote:On May 21 2019 05:32 Starcloud wrote:
Just another thread with same debate. Doesnt 99% here think that it goes this way, and we can stop it here, ok ? Below is my ranking. First is the bracket for Koreans and below it are foringers that can fit in that bracket (approx. of course). Occasionally, players can of course be higher or lower in those brackets, but general standing is something like this:
Korean top 1-4
Serral
Korean top 5-8
-
Korean top 9-14
Neeb
Korean top 15-20
Reynor
Special
Showtime
Scarlett
Easy, right ? I like this list. Showtime seems to be back in form. The 2019 Showtime before WCS Spring doesn't belong here. Other good foreigners are too unstable to be here, but maybe could qualify for a Ro32 GSL on a good day (Heromarine, Lambo, Drogo, Elazer) Edit: To the above poster: Pretty sure Serral plays regularly on KR ladder and has an account there with somewhere between 6k-7k MMR True, good to see him back in form. I really do think it’s a matter of on a good day too, but 10-15 foreigners could qualify for the GSL Ro32 IMO, at least l. This really isn’t hyperbolic it’s watching the games of the worst players that scrape into it every season now, the reds usually a couple for whom Ro32 is clearly their ceiling on current shape, plus based on the foreigners who have qualified and where I’d place them on a top foreigner list. It is cool that some of those players are returning legends and I hope they get into shape, so I’m not being critical of them as they do that. It’s not just the usual suspects either, the foreign scene has a bunch of really talented players who are 17/18 and now have the WCS circuit to develop on further. I mean if Zanster could qualify for GSL Ro32 literally any decent foreigner could. Zanster qualified once out of how many tries? Also pretty wrong statement to make regardless - I would only put him behind Serral/Lambo/Elazer/Reynor EU - close with Namshar perhaps a bit better - and would be number 1 NA lmao (Scarlett being Kr). Any "decent" foreigner implies nominal skill for a foreigner - which is way below Zanster. Qualifying for code S once is a great achievement for a good foreigner. Nobody is saying good foreigners would never qualify for code S - getting passed the gatekeepers though is very rare even for the better ones who have tried.
Your words would be so true if we were in 2015, now qualifying for Code S is easier and Zanster is weaker(at least if we compare him with his non korean fellows).
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Northern Ireland27308 Posts
On May 22 2019 09:24 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 01:49 Pandain wrote:On May 21 2019 21:30 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 21 2019 18:09 Harris1st wrote:On May 21 2019 05:32 Starcloud wrote:
Just another thread with same debate. Doesnt 99% here think that it goes this way, and we can stop it here, ok ? Below is my ranking. First is the bracket for Koreans and below it are foringers that can fit in that bracket (approx. of course). Occasionally, players can of course be higher or lower in those brackets, but general standing is something like this:
Korean top 1-4
Serral
Korean top 5-8
-
Korean top 9-14
Neeb
Korean top 15-20
Reynor
Special
Showtime
Scarlett
Easy, right ? I like this list. Showtime seems to be back in form. The 2019 Showtime before WCS Spring doesn't belong here. Other good foreigners are too unstable to be here, but maybe could qualify for a Ro32 GSL on a good day (Heromarine, Lambo, Drogo, Elazer) Edit: To the above poster: Pretty sure Serral plays regularly on KR ladder and has an account there with somewhere between 6k-7k MMR True, good to see him back in form. I really do think it’s a matter of on a good day too, but 10-15 foreigners could qualify for the GSL Ro32 IMO, at least l. This really isn’t hyperbolic it’s watching the games of the worst players that scrape into it every season now, the reds usually a couple for whom Ro32 is clearly their ceiling on current shape, plus based on the foreigners who have qualified and where I’d place them on a top foreigner list. It is cool that some of those players are returning legends and I hope they get into shape, so I’m not being critical of them as they do that. It’s not just the usual suspects either, the foreign scene has a bunch of really talented players who are 17/18 and now have the WCS circuit to develop on further. I mean if Zanster could qualify for GSL Ro32 literally any decent foreigner could. Zanster qualified once out of how many tries? Also pretty wrong statement to make regardless - I would only put him behind Serral/Lambo/Elazer/Reynor EU - close with Namshar perhaps a bit better - and would be number 1 NA lmao (Scarlett being Kr). Any "decent" foreigner implies nominal skill for a foreigner - which is way below Zanster. Qualifying for code S once is a great achievement for a good foreigner. Nobody is saying good foreigners would never qualify for code S - getting passed the gatekeepers though is very rare even for the better ones who have tried.
I mean people have been saying that in this thread to be fair
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Disappointing finals..
I was gutted when Special beat Neeb in the first semis because I knew Serral would steamroll Special that hard... The only remaining question was : "Would Reynor stop Serral again ?"
His qualification kinda "ruined" the great Neeb vs Serral finals that would, imo, have been much more unpredictable.
(Neeb is 14-11 against Serral, including 3-0 & 2-0 results the last times they met, but then again it's Serral, he's capable of winning against anyone)
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I think Serral would have won vs Neeb in any case. But not a clean sweep. More like 4:2 with some really close games
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EPT
