|
On March 14 2019 11:57 jy_9876543210 wrote:
Macsed's response:
"说下当时情况吧，第一盘打完我觉得这个人很菜，当然所有人都和我这么说，我也觉得他很菜，然后第二盘才会选择一个低保rush因为我觉得只要过去把他门口的兵营打了就能赢，但是我过去看到他家里有个兵营没开气我以为他要开2矿，我就封了他得气，一旦封了他拿什么打我低保？可我万万没想到他这个战术是rail教他的，因为在职业内战里面这种战术是不成立的，所以我就没多想。打完这场比赛rail跑过来疯狂炫耀说是我教的，因为他知道我会觉得他是菜鸟肯定会想快点结束，然后就家里一个兵营外面3个兵营来骗我。果真我被骗到了，当时被骗到了乱导致各种失误，但是我认为就算不失误这一盘我也赢不了，因为我家里已经挡不住了，他只要在外面开个基地农民传出来也是随便赢。哎都怪我，太丢人了"
My translation:
"The situation was, after the first map I thought this guy is weak, of course that's also what everyone's been telling me, and I felt the same. So on the second map I decided to cannon rush since I thought I could win by destroying the gateway in his base, but when I saw his base, there's a gateway but no gas, so I thought he's gonna expand, and I blocked his gas, so he can't stop my cannon rush. But what I didn't know was that it's rail who taught him this strategy, because he knew that I would try to finish this game quickly since I thought my opponent is weak, and he tricked me by one gateway in main base and 3 proxies outside. That totally got me, and resulted in a lot of mistakes from me. But I think even if I didn't make those mistakes, I still wouldn't win that map, since I couldn't defend my base, he could just make another base and recall the probes. It's my fault, this is an embarrassing game." |
On March 14 2019 02:37 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 02:25 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 02:24 deacon.frost wrote:On March 14 2019 02:22 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 01:38 MarathonMan wrote:On March 14 2019 00:45 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 00:40 NinjaNight wrote:On March 13 2019 23:27 deacon.frost wrote:On March 13 2019 22:50 NinjaNight wrote:On March 13 2019 22:48 NinjaNight wrote:
If anyone still has serious doubts after posts 115 & 116 you probably won't be convinced until you have proof that's impossible to deny. Unfortunately we live in a world where such proof is very hard to come by. Or perhaps you haven't played protoss at a masters or higher level and that blinds you from seeing that a professional protoss cannot possibly play this way in a major tournament unless they want to lose. Macsed needs to be given at least a temporary ban from starcraft for this immediately. Yeah, let's punish a player we have no solid evidence against. Seriously? How can you honestly believe there's no solid evidence? Let's start with one aspect. Can you explain to me from the perspective of someone who believes he didn't matchfix why he suddenly pulled his probes off the 2 zealots they were attacking right when the zealots were about to die? I can tell you exactly why this is one piece of evidence (among many) that he was matchfixing in great detail. I would like to emphasize how utterly ignorant it is to say we have no solid evidence. You're one of the people I mentioned who will only believe it once you have pure undeniable proof handed to you on a silver platter (which is nearly impossible for us to get). You won't accept any amount of evidence no matter how unlikely it could be that he's innocent. I found so much evidence of matchfixing in this game that I don't think there can even be any reasonable doubt. User was warned for this post Considering how serious of an accusation this is, we should be waiting until we get undeniable proof. I think you're most likely never getting undeniable proof even if it was matchfixing. I don't think this is the right approach. You might want to check mr. Savior and mr. Life cases, certain former Prime team case and probably plenty of others. Ah yes catching a couple guys surely means there weren't way more who went undiscovered. There have been many over the years, but considering it mean an immediate lost of the player income if Blizz decided to ban him we should thread carefully. It's good that it has been brought up and that people are looking into it, but at the end of the day we aren't the one that lose our jobs for it, better having a free matchfixer than to convicted an innocent . INno, Soulkey, San, Dark, BuyL, MKP and others were all accused of matchfixing in the past, if we start bringing the hammer on every programmers with a strange line it may be a long list.
Soulkey and Dark? When? Can you link me the betting lines/thread? Inno and MKP were slamdunk matchfixing in Proleague but never heard about these two.
|
Canada8989 Posts
On March 14 2019 02:48 BlingBlang wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 02:37 Nakajin wrote:On March 14 2019 02:25 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 02:24 deacon.frost wrote:On March 14 2019 02:22 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 01:38 MarathonMan wrote:On March 14 2019 00:45 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 00:40 NinjaNight wrote:On March 13 2019 23:27 deacon.frost wrote:On March 13 2019 22:50 NinjaNight wrote:
[quote]
Macsed needs to be given at least a temporary ban from starcraft for this immediately. Yeah, let's punish a player we have no solid evidence against. Seriously? How can you honestly believe there's no solid evidence? Let's start with one aspect. Can you explain to me from the perspective of someone who believes he didn't matchfix why he suddenly pulled his probes off the 2 zealots they were attacking right when the zealots were about to die? I can tell you exactly why this is one piece of evidence (among many) that he was matchfixing in great detail. I would like to emphasize how utterly ignorant it is to say we have no solid evidence. You're one of the people I mentioned who will only believe it once you have pure undeniable proof handed to you on a silver platter (which is nearly impossible for us to get). You won't accept any amount of evidence no matter how unlikely it could be that he's innocent. I found so much evidence of matchfixing in this game that I don't think there can even be any reasonable doubt. User was warned for this post Considering how serious of an accusation this is, we should be waiting until we get undeniable proof. I think you're most likely never getting undeniable proof even if it was matchfixing. I don't think this is the right approach. You might want to check mr. Savior and mr. Life cases, certain former Prime team case and probably plenty of others. Ah yes catching a couple guys surely means there weren't way more who went undiscovered. There have been many over the years, but considering it mean an immediate lost of the player income if Blizz decided to ban him we should thread carefully. It's good that it has been brought up and that people are looking into it, but at the end of the day we aren't the one that lose our jobs for it, better having a free matchfixer than to convicted an innocent . INno, Soulkey, San, Dark, BuyL, MKP and others were all accused of matchfixing in the past, if we start bringing the hammer on every programmers with a strange line it may be a long list. Soulkey and Dark? When? Can you link me the betting lines/thread? Inno and MKP were slamdunk matchfixing in Proleague but never heard about these two.
 2015 Match-Fixing Scandal
Edit: not BuyL and Dark sorry
|
On March 13 2019 23:35 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2019 23:08 M3t4PhYzX wrote:
FUCK. BETTING. SITES.
They're destroying everything.. Even e-sports.. Dont know about that, half of the professional sport leagues would flat out go bankrupt if there werent for gambling. Most of the "casual" fans wouldnt follow games that dont feature their favorites / hometown teams. But if you re gambling, you suddenly have a vested interest in totally irrelevant games. That is also the main reason, why betting companies and websites give incentives / force you to make bets that include multiple results, not just the one.
99% of sports have way too much money and the players are waaaaay overpaid anyways. Bankrupcy would (maybe) make them good and sports would be about sports again and not (all) about money.
|
On March 14 2019 02:29 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 02:25 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 02:24 deacon.frost wrote:On March 14 2019 02:22 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 01:38 MarathonMan wrote:On March 14 2019 00:45 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 00:40 NinjaNight wrote:On March 13 2019 23:27 deacon.frost wrote:On March 13 2019 22:50 NinjaNight wrote:On March 13 2019 22:48 NinjaNight wrote:
If anyone still has serious doubts after posts 115 & 116 you probably won't be convinced until you have proof that's impossible to deny. Unfortunately we live in a world where such proof is very hard to come by. Or perhaps you haven't played protoss at a masters or higher level and that blinds you from seeing that a professional protoss cannot possibly play this way in a major tournament unless they want to lose. Macsed needs to be given at least a temporary ban from starcraft for this immediately. Yeah, let's punish a player we have no solid evidence against. Seriously? How can you honestly believe there's no solid evidence? Let's start with one aspect. Can you explain to me from the perspective of someone who believes he didn't matchfix why he suddenly pulled his probes off the 2 zealots they were attacking right when the zealots were about to die? I can tell you exactly why this is one piece of evidence (among many) that he was matchfixing in great detail. I would like to emphasize how utterly ignorant it is to say we have no solid evidence. You're one of the people I mentioned who will only believe it once you have pure undeniable proof handed to you on a silver platter (which is nearly impossible for us to get). You won't accept any amount of evidence no matter how unlikely it could be that he's innocent. I found so much evidence of matchfixing in this game that I don't think there can even be any reasonable doubt. User was warned for this post Considering how serious of an accusation this is, we should be waiting until we get undeniable proof. I think you're most likely never getting undeniable proof even if it was matchfixing. I don't think this is the right approach. You might want to check mr. Savior and mr. Life cases, certain former Prime team case and probably plenty of others. Ah yes catching a couple guys surely means there weren't way more who went undiscovered. If you don't have the evidence then we consider people innocent. That's how these things work in civilized countries, because incarcerating innocent people is one of the evilest things you can do to a person.
That's actually not how it works. We convict based on "beyond a reasonable doubt", because if we only convicted on undeniable proof, almost all criminals would go free.
|
On March 14 2019 02:49 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 02:48 BlingBlang wrote:On March 14 2019 02:37 Nakajin wrote:On March 14 2019 02:25 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 02:24 deacon.frost wrote:On March 14 2019 02:22 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 01:38 MarathonMan wrote:On March 14 2019 00:45 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 00:40 NinjaNight wrote:On March 13 2019 23:27 deacon.frost wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, let's punish a player we have no solid evidence against. Seriously?
How can you honestly believe there's no solid evidence? Let's start with one aspect. Can you explain to me from the perspective of someone who believes he didn't matchfix why he suddenly pulled his probes off the 2 zealots they were attacking right when the zealots were about to die? I can tell you exactly why this is one piece of evidence (among many) that he was matchfixing in great detail. I would like to emphasize how utterly ignorant it is to say we have no solid evidence. You're one of the people I mentioned who will only believe it once you have pure undeniable proof handed to you on a silver platter (which is nearly impossible for us to get). You won't accept any amount of evidence no matter how unlikely it could be that he's innocent. I found so much evidence of matchfixing in this game that I don't think there can even be any reasonable doubt. User was warned for this post Considering how serious of an accusation this is, we should be waiting until we get undeniable proof. I think you're most likely never getting undeniable proof even if it was matchfixing. I don't think this is the right approach. You might want to check mr. Savior and mr. Life cases, certain former Prime team case and probably plenty of others. Ah yes catching a couple guys surely means there weren't way more who went undiscovered. There have been many over the years, but considering it mean an immediate lost of the player income if Blizz decided to ban him we should thread carefully. It's good that it has been brought up and that people are looking into it, but at the end of the day we aren't the one that lose our jobs for it, better having a free matchfixer than to convicted an innocent . INno, Soulkey, San, Dark, BuyL, MKP and others were all accused of matchfixing in the past, if we start bringing the hammer on every programmers with a strange line it may be a long list. Soulkey and Dark? When? Can you link me the betting lines/thread? Inno and MKP were slamdunk matchfixing in Proleague but never heard about these two. 2015 Match-Fixing Scandal
This is a good read.
|
Canada8989 Posts
On March 14 2019 03:12 argonautdice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 02:49 Nakajin wrote:On March 14 2019 02:48 BlingBlang wrote:On March 14 2019 02:37 Nakajin wrote:On March 14 2019 02:25 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 02:24 deacon.frost wrote:On March 14 2019 02:22 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 01:38 MarathonMan wrote:On March 14 2019 00:45 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 00:40 NinjaNight wrote:
[quote]
How can you honestly believe there's no solid evidence?
Let's start with one aspect. Can you explain to me from the perspective of someone who believes he didn't matchfix why he suddenly pulled his probes off the 2 zealots they were attacking right when the zealots were about to die? I can tell you exactly why this is one piece of evidence (among many) that he was matchfixing in great detail. I would like to emphasize how utterly ignorant it is to say we have no solid evidence. You're one of the people I mentioned who will only believe it once you have pure undeniable proof handed to you on a silver platter (which is nearly impossible for us to get). You won't accept any amount of evidence no matter how unlikely it could be that he's innocent. I found so much evidence of matchfixing in this game that I don't think there can even be any reasonable doubt. User was warned for this post Considering how serious of an accusation this is, we should be waiting until we get undeniable proof. I think you're most likely never getting undeniable proof even if it was matchfixing. I don't think this is the right approach. You might want to check mr. Savior and mr. Life cases, certain former Prime team case and probably plenty of others. Ah yes catching a couple guys surely means there weren't way more who went undiscovered. There have been many over the years, but considering it mean an immediate lost of the player income if Blizz decided to ban him we should thread carefully. It's good that it has been brought up and that people are looking into it, but at the end of the day we aren't the one that lose our jobs for it, better having a free matchfixer than to convicted an innocent . INno, Soulkey, San, Dark, BuyL, MKP and others were all accused of matchfixing in the past, if we start bringing the hammer on every programmers with a strange line it may be a long list. Soulkey and Dark? When? Can you link me the betting lines/thread? Inno and MKP were slamdunk matchfixing in Proleague but never heard about these two. 2015 Match-Fixing Scandal This is a good read.
Best part is the random photo of "mastermind investigator Olimoley" holding a freaking plushy duck in a restaurant, it make the rest of the read a bit easier.
|
On March 14 2019 02:49 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 02:48 BlingBlang wrote:On March 14 2019 02:37 Nakajin wrote:On March 14 2019 02:25 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 02:24 deacon.frost wrote:On March 14 2019 02:22 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 01:38 MarathonMan wrote:On March 14 2019 00:45 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 00:40 NinjaNight wrote:On March 13 2019 23:27 deacon.frost wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, let's punish a player we have no solid evidence against. Seriously?
How can you honestly believe there's no solid evidence? Let's start with one aspect. Can you explain to me from the perspective of someone who believes he didn't matchfix why he suddenly pulled his probes off the 2 zealots they were attacking right when the zealots were about to die? I can tell you exactly why this is one piece of evidence (among many) that he was matchfixing in great detail. I would like to emphasize how utterly ignorant it is to say we have no solid evidence. You're one of the people I mentioned who will only believe it once you have pure undeniable proof handed to you on a silver platter (which is nearly impossible for us to get). You won't accept any amount of evidence no matter how unlikely it could be that he's innocent. I found so much evidence of matchfixing in this game that I don't think there can even be any reasonable doubt. User was warned for this post Considering how serious of an accusation this is, we should be waiting until we get undeniable proof. I think you're most likely never getting undeniable proof even if it was matchfixing. I don't think this is the right approach. You might want to check mr. Savior and mr. Life cases, certain former Prime team case and probably plenty of others. Ah yes catching a couple guys surely means there weren't way more who went undiscovered. There have been many over the years, but considering it mean an immediate lost of the player income if Blizz decided to ban him we should thread carefully. It's good that it has been brought up and that people are looking into it, but at the end of the day we aren't the one that lose our jobs for it, better having a free matchfixer than to convicted an innocent . INno, Soulkey, San, Dark, BuyL, MKP and others were all accused of matchfixing in the past, if we start bringing the hammer on every programmers with a strange line it may be a long list. Soulkey and Dark? When? Can you link me the betting lines/thread? Inno and MKP were slamdunk matchfixing in Proleague but never heard about these two. 2015 Match-Fixing Scandal
Dark wasn't accused of match-fixing, his opponent was. Same for ByuL.
|
On March 14 2019 02:47 BlingBlang wrote:
Marine King and Innovation definitely match-fixed towards the end of Proleague (both were in a slump and the games were dodgy too although the odds movement is almost 100% proof).
I almost hope we find out Innovation match fixed a game at one point because then it would be excessively difficult for people to argue that lifebans are good for the game. It's pretty obvious that Starcraft with Innovation playing and a match-fix at one time in the past is much better than Starcraft with no Innovation since the end of Proleague.
|
Canada8989 Posts
On March 14 2019 03:40 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 02:49 Nakajin wrote:On March 14 2019 02:48 BlingBlang wrote:On March 14 2019 02:37 Nakajin wrote:On March 14 2019 02:25 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 02:24 deacon.frost wrote:On March 14 2019 02:22 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 01:38 MarathonMan wrote:On March 14 2019 00:45 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 00:40 NinjaNight wrote:
[quote]
How can you honestly believe there's no solid evidence?
Let's start with one aspect. Can you explain to me from the perspective of someone who believes he didn't matchfix why he suddenly pulled his probes off the 2 zealots they were attacking right when the zealots were about to die? I can tell you exactly why this is one piece of evidence (among many) that he was matchfixing in great detail. I would like to emphasize how utterly ignorant it is to say we have no solid evidence. You're one of the people I mentioned who will only believe it once you have pure undeniable proof handed to you on a silver platter (which is nearly impossible for us to get). You won't accept any amount of evidence no matter how unlikely it could be that he's innocent. I found so much evidence of matchfixing in this game that I don't think there can even be any reasonable doubt. User was warned for this post Considering how serious of an accusation this is, we should be waiting until we get undeniable proof. I think you're most likely never getting undeniable proof even if it was matchfixing. I don't think this is the right approach. You might want to check mr. Savior and mr. Life cases, certain former Prime team case and probably plenty of others. Ah yes catching a couple guys surely means there weren't way more who went undiscovered. There have been many over the years, but considering it mean an immediate lost of the player income if Blizz decided to ban him we should thread carefully. It's good that it has been brought up and that people are looking into it, but at the end of the day we aren't the one that lose our jobs for it, better having a free matchfixer than to convicted an innocent . INno, Soulkey, San, Dark, BuyL, MKP and others were all accused of matchfixing in the past, if we start bringing the hammer on every programmers with a strange line it may be a long list. Soulkey and Dark? When? Can you link me the betting lines/thread? Inno and MKP were slamdunk matchfixing in Proleague but never heard about these two. 2015 Match-Fixing Scandal Dark wasn't accused of match-fixing, his opponent was. Same for ByuL.
Oups my bad sorry.
|
Can someone give me some context for all these accusations of Innovation matchfixing? First I've ever heard of it. As for MarineKing for ByuL, let it go guys. He was already investigated and they concluded he was innocent. Kespa has demonstrated they're perfectly willing to convict their star players like Life and Savior, there's no fucking way they'll cover up for MarineKing if they actually found evidence for it.
|
What if people, instead of posting "my bad" rather went back and edited the random misinformations from their posts?
Anyway, after all that I have seen, I am keeping my pitchforks stowed away until actual criminal convictions happen. We have seen the authorities being able to do so. Some "suspicious activity" is just not gonna cut it for me.
|
On March 14 2019 03:52 Brutaxilos wrote:
Can someone give me some context for all these accusations of Innovation matchfixing? First I've ever heard of it. As for MarineKing for ByuL, let it go guys. He was already investigated and they concluded he was innocent. Kespa has demonstrated they're perfectly willing to convict their star players like Life and Savior, there's no fucking way they'll cover up for MarineKing if they actually found evidence for it.
There was 1 shady betting line for an Inno match when he played Super in Code S in 2015. The bets got voided but like with most of the "weird betting line" accusations, nothing ever came of it. We don't even know if it was investigated at all.
Also maybe note that the prosecutor's report stated that brokers had purposely tampered with betting lines on matches that were not fixed. So betting lines aren't reliable.
|
Canada8989 Posts
On March 14 2019 03:52 opisska wrote:
What if people, instead of posting "my bad" rather went back and edited the random misinformations from their posts?
Anyway, after all that I have seen, I am keeping my pitchforks stowed away until actual criminal convictions happen. We have seen the authorities being able to do so. Some "suspicious activity" is just not gonna cut it for me.
I did
|
On March 14 2019 03:44 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 02:47 BlingBlang wrote:
Marine King and Innovation definitely match-fixed towards the end of Proleague (both were in a slump and the games were dodgy too although the odds movement is almost 100% proof). I almost hope we find out Innovation match fixed a game at one point because then it would be excessively difficult for people to argue that lifebans are good for the game. It's pretty obvious that Starcraft with Innovation playing and a match-fix at one time in the past is much better than Starcraft with no Innovation since the end of Proleague.
I've seen this argument made for CSGO too and again it needs to be said, no talent is ever worth the loss of integrity. If the legitimacy of the games ever comes into doubt, what's the point of even watching.
When the entire image of the scene is at stake, lifetime bans are more than warranted. Sponsors don't want to be associated with a tainted game, so a match-fixer would've endangered the livelihood of many more people than just himself. Not to mention (assisting with) stealing money is a criminal offence. Be glad they weren't thrown in prison.
A very poisoned outlook on matchfixing bans that I hate seeing surface every now and then. These professionals should know better.
|
On March 14 2019 03:57 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 03:52 opisska wrote:
What if people, instead of posting "my bad" rather went back and edited the random misinformations from their posts?
Anyway, after all that I have seen, I am keeping my pitchforks stowed away until actual criminal convictions happen. We have seen the authorities being able to do so. Some "suspicious activity" is just not gonna cut it for me. I did
Appreciated!
|
On March 13 2019 11:39 digmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2019 11:36 BretZ wrote:On March 13 2019 11:34 dunaifen wrote:
Plz just go check the replay. That match was casted by Chinese stream on Huya.com. For the second match Sed just wants to show off by using cannon rush. He failed and that's it. For those bullshit about earning some extra money before retiring, Sed currently does a job as trainers for the scboys training camp and his life is not wholly depend on winning titles. Why would he work for scboy when he's on Invictus Gaming? He is semi retired now. EDIT: Watched the vod, that's.... a pretty typical messy macsed game. Don't think it's anything suspicious.
Big surprise there.
On March 13 2019 12:57 BretZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2019 12:31 MarathonMan wrote:
Not only is this game not suspicious, this is not match fixing. We dont have the replay and therefore have zero confirmation as to who saw what. Not to mention, most of these responses were normal. On top of that macsed has been out of play for a good while, is playing someone way worse than him, and likely just wanted to get to the next game. If this game is suspicious, MarineKing match fixed in proleague all those years ago. The betting line is weird. Its not suspicious. Just a little weird. But weirder things have happened. I HIGHLY SUGGEST PEOPLE STOP PITCHFORKING UNTIL WE SEE THE REPLAY, NOT JUST A REALLY BAD VOD. There's multiple places to find the VODS. Better quality. Why is every single poster that denies the evidence from brand new accounts? Why are all of you pulling what about isms?
I wonder.
On March 14 2019 02:20 IshinShishi wrote:
I strongly believe that the people that think that there's a chance this isn't a match fix just don't understand the evidence we already have, they either haven't seen it or can't grasp it at all.
There are certainly other reasons that are common in situations like these.
|
United Kingdom20319 Posts
On March 14 2019 03:57 IntoTheEmo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 03:44 Nebuchad wrote:On March 14 2019 02:47 BlingBlang wrote:
Marine King and Innovation definitely match-fixed towards the end of Proleague (both were in a slump and the games were dodgy too although the odds movement is almost 100% proof). I almost hope we find out Innovation match fixed a game at one point because then it would be excessively difficult for people to argue that lifebans are good for the game. It's pretty obvious that Starcraft with Innovation playing and a match-fix at one time in the past is much better than Starcraft with no Innovation since the end of Proleague. I've seen this argument made for CSGO too and again it needs to be said, no talent is ever worth the loss of integrity. If the legitimacy of the games ever comes into doubt, what's the point of even watching. When the entire image of the scene is at stake, lifetime bans are more than warranted. Sponsors don't want to be associated with a tainted game, so a match-fixer would've endangered the livelihood of many more people than just himself. Not to mention (assisting with) stealing money is a criminal offence. Be glad they weren't thrown in prison. A very poisoned outlook on matchfixing bans that I hate seeing surface every now and then. These professionals should know better.
An SC2 with a known matchfixer playing is an SC2 that invites dozens of known matchfixers until no game is sacred any more.
|
On March 14 2019 03:40 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 02:49 Nakajin wrote:On March 14 2019 02:48 BlingBlang wrote:On March 14 2019 02:37 Nakajin wrote:On March 14 2019 02:25 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 02:24 deacon.frost wrote:On March 14 2019 02:22 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 01:38 MarathonMan wrote:On March 14 2019 00:45 NinjaNight wrote:On March 14 2019 00:40 NinjaNight wrote:
[quote]
How can you honestly believe there's no solid evidence?
Let's start with one aspect. Can you explain to me from the perspective of someone who believes he didn't matchfix why he suddenly pulled his probes off the 2 zealots they were attacking right when the zealots were about to die? I can tell you exactly why this is one piece of evidence (among many) that he was matchfixing in great detail. I would like to emphasize how utterly ignorant it is to say we have no solid evidence. You're one of the people I mentioned who will only believe it once you have pure undeniable proof handed to you on a silver platter (which is nearly impossible for us to get). You won't accept any amount of evidence no matter how unlikely it could be that he's innocent. I found so much evidence of matchfixing in this game that I don't think there can even be any reasonable doubt. User was warned for this post Considering how serious of an accusation this is, we should be waiting until we get undeniable proof. I think you're most likely never getting undeniable proof even if it was matchfixing. I don't think this is the right approach. You might want to check mr. Savior and mr. Life cases, certain former Prime team case and probably plenty of others. Ah yes catching a couple guys surely means there weren't way more who went undiscovered. There have been many over the years, but considering it mean an immediate lost of the player income if Blizz decided to ban him we should thread carefully. It's good that it has been brought up and that people are looking into it, but at the end of the day we aren't the one that lose our jobs for it, better having a free matchfixer than to convicted an innocent . INno, Soulkey, San, Dark, BuyL, MKP and others were all accused of matchfixing in the past, if we start bringing the hammer on every programmers with a strange line it may be a long list. Soulkey and Dark? When? Can you link me the betting lines/thread? Inno and MKP were slamdunk matchfixing in Proleague but never heard about these two. 2015 Match-Fixing Scandal Dark wasn't accused of match-fixing, his opponent was. Same for ByuL.
Well, in forum discussions almost everybody who was part of a suspicious match got accused of matchfixing, because matchfixing can involve both players of a match. But that's exactly what Nakajin referred to: accusations are thrown around way too fast by some people with the effect, that the reputation of innocent people can be damaged
|
On March 14 2019 04:08 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 03:57 IntoTheEmo wrote:On March 14 2019 03:44 Nebuchad wrote:On March 14 2019 02:47 BlingBlang wrote:
Marine King and Innovation definitely match-fixed towards the end of Proleague (both were in a slump and the games were dodgy too although the odds movement is almost 100% proof). I almost hope we find out Innovation match fixed a game at one point because then it would be excessively difficult for people to argue that lifebans are good for the game. It's pretty obvious that Starcraft with Innovation playing and a match-fix at one time in the past is much better than Starcraft with no Innovation since the end of Proleague. I've seen this argument made for CSGO too and again it needs to be said, no talent is ever worth the loss of integrity. If the legitimacy of the games ever comes into doubt, what's the point of even watching. When the entire image of the scene is at stake, lifetime bans are more than warranted. Sponsors don't want to be associated with a tainted game, so a match-fixer would've endangered the livelihood of many more people than just himself. Not to mention (assisting with) stealing money is a criminal offence. Be glad they weren't thrown in prison. A very poisoned outlook on matchfixing bans that I hate seeing surface every now and then. These professionals should know better. An SC2 with a known matchfixer playing is an SC2 that invites dozens of known matchfixers until no game is sacred any more.
I still think that there should be the possibility of redemption for matchfixers in rare cases and only when said matchfixers really started to pubicly speak out and help against matchfixing and to help the scene overall. Than maybe, someone could be allowed to play again. Not that this would be a likely scenario but I really don't like that categorial "never ever under no circumstances"-attitude. I don't think that rare exceptions made possible by an exceptional way of redemption and good will for the scene would hurt the integrity of the scene.
|
On March 14 2019 04:24 fronkschnonk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2019 04:08 Cyro wrote:On March 14 2019 03:57 IntoTheEmo wrote:On March 14 2019 03:44 Nebuchad wrote:On March 14 2019 02:47 BlingBlang wrote:
Marine King and Innovation definitely match-fixed towards the end of Proleague (both were in a slump and the games were dodgy too although the odds movement is almost 100% proof). I almost hope we find out Innovation match fixed a game at one point because then it would be excessively difficult for people to argue that lifebans are good for the game. It's pretty obvious that Starcraft with Innovation playing and a match-fix at one time in the past is much better than Starcraft with no Innovation since the end of Proleague. I've seen this argument made for CSGO too and again it needs to be said, no talent is ever worth the loss of integrity. If the legitimacy of the games ever comes into doubt, what's the point of even watching. When the entire image of the scene is at stake, lifetime bans are more than warranted. Sponsors don't want to be associated with a tainted game, so a match-fixer would've endangered the livelihood of many more people than just himself. Not to mention (assisting with) stealing money is a criminal offence. Be glad they weren't thrown in prison. A very poisoned outlook on matchfixing bans that I hate seeing surface every now and then. These professionals should know better. An SC2 with a known matchfixer playing is an SC2 that invites dozens of known matchfixers until no game is sacred any more. I still think that there should be the possibility of redemption for matchfixers in rare cases and only when said matchfixers really started to pubicly speak out and help against matchfixing and to help the scene overall. Than maybe, someone could be allowed to play again. Not that this would be a likely scenario but I really don't like that categorial "never ever under no circumstances"-attitude. I don't think that rare exceptions made possible by an exceptional way of redemption and good will for the scene would hurt the integrity of the scene.
Of course there is a road to redemption, there has been multiple cases of players being banned indefinitely (not sc2) and then unbanned. However you make it sound like it should be "Hi Life, you are banned forever but if you do X, Y and Z and really mean those things we will let you play again". Thats not right, thats not real redemption, thats us telling them what they need to do to get to play again and then them doing that. Its the whole "say you're sorry" thing, when they do of course they don't mean it because you told them to say it.
Life could have started streaming, he could have started doing a lot for the scene and kept doing it for a long time. Maybe he could have been accepted back, he never tried so of course he will not be welcomed back. Redemption needs to be earned not coached towards.
Also only kespa (a private company that does whatever they wished) banned Life forever, Blizzard never gave a statement so there isn't even anything to really discuss here. He wasn't even banned, big deal if he made a come back right now that he cant play in kespas stuff xD
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
