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v5872012
35 Posts
According to TIME and Cloudy, two Chinese progamer who was lived in Korea camp, said, non-korean players who play in GSL events cannot play in WCS events anymore since rules was changed. It was still not confirmed by Blizzard official. Sry about my bad english skill | ||
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LaughNgamez
Canada523 Posts
Players should have been able to know this months in advance. Blizzard delaying announcement/full rules for so long is messing with everyone. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On January 24 2019 15:17 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I have a very hard time believing we wouldn't have heard about this before now. If this is true, it's a really big blow to a lot of players plans. We'll have to get someone to confirm Extremely dick move to some of the only organizations still supporting their own scene. Root having just partnered with NoRegret and the foreigner house would be a huge middle finger. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
On January 24 2019 15:23 chipmonklord17 wrote: Extremely dick move to some of the only organizations still supporting their own scene. Root having just partnered with NoRegret and the foreigner house would be a huge middle finger. Even if its true its still stupid, if they're willing to long term live in Korea that should make them eligible, but I digress. No need to have the same conversation the 10000000000th time The biggest dick move is that there were no announcement, and even if there was it came way too late. RIP to a lot of player's schedule and plans. | ||
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pzlama333
United States277 Posts
For my opinion, since WCS blocked all Korean players, it could be understood that GSL has the right to block all non-Korean, but they should announce it officially long ago, but not just an e-mail one day before the scheduled starts. I wonder GSL would not even have enough players to participate now. | ||
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busyghost
82 Posts
On January 24 2019 15:08 LaughNgamez wrote: IMO a great and fair decision but a very poorly handled one. Players should have been able to know this months in advance. Blizzard delaying announcement/full rules for so long is messing with everyone. I do not know. If this is true then the existence of NoRegret's foreign teamhouse becomes meaningless and the sponsors should just pull out. The biggest irony about WCS and GSL is in their names. "World" Championships Series and "Global" Starcraft II League. So now there are only three offline tournaments for Koreans to directly compete with Non-Koreans, IEM, GSL vs the World if it still exists and Blizzcon. | ||
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gpanda.sc2
20 Posts
On January 24 2019 15:30 pzlama333 wrote: According to TIME and the Chinese caster Xiaose's weibo (Chinese equivalent of facebook), this ban is requested by Korean, and all foreigners living in Korea are preparing to leave. weibo not an equivalent of fb, but twitter. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
On January 24 2019 15:30 pzlama333 wrote: According to TIME and the Chinese caster Xiaose's weibo (Chinese equivalent of facebook), this ban is requested by Korean, and all foreigners living in Korea are preparing to leave. For my opinion, since WCS blocked all Korean players, it could be understood that GSL has the right to block all non-Korean, but they should announce it officially long ago, but not just an e-mail one day before the scheduled starts. I wonder GSL would not even have enough players to participate now. I'd be pretty surprised if this changed was *pushed by AfreecaTV (GSL). They benefit from the viewership, and I think they would have mentioned it in the qualifier announcement if that was the case. In any case, it sounds like players are forced to pick one or the other, not a complete foreigner ban. Although most foreigners will probably opt to play in WCS since they are more likely to have success. I suspect it's a call made by Blizzard as they work out the details for the rest of the season. That is a pretty reasonable decision, however the fact that they still haven't released more than the bare minimum of information about this years events must be incredibly frustrating for the players in particular. Edit: Changed enforced to pushed to clarify | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Assuming it is true, this sounds like the most even-handed approach. All players have the choice of either WCS or GSL, but not both. XOR for the win. On January 24 2019 15:47 Kalera wrote: I'd be pretty surprised if this was enforced by AfreecaTV (GSL). They benefit from the viewership, and I think they would have mentioned it in the qualifier announcement if that was the case. Given how this started with Solar's tweet, it's probably safe to assume that the Korean pros (Solar et al) requested this change, either to Blizzard directly or via AfreecaTV. As for enforcement, if Blizzard says it's the rules, then I can only assume that AfreecaTV will enforce them. | ||
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pzlama333
United States277 Posts
On January 24 2019 15:47 Kalera wrote: I'd be pretty surprised if this was enforced by AfreecaTV (GSL). They benefit from the viewership, and I think they would have mentioned it in the qualifier announcement if that was the case. In any case, it sounds like players are forced to pick one or the other, not a complete foreigner ban. Although most foreigners will probably opt to play in WCS since they are more likely to have success. I suspect it's a call made by Blizzard as they work out the details for the rest of the season. That is a pretty reasonable decision, however the fact that they still haven't released more than the bare minimum of information about this years events must be incredibly frustrating for the players in particular. Yea, it seems that those non-Koreans have to choose either GSL or WCS, but not both. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On January 24 2019 15:37 busyghost wrote: I do not know. If this is true then the existence of NoRegret's foreign teamhouse becomes meaningless and the sponsors should just pull out. The biggest irony about WCS and GSL is in their names. "World" Championships Series and "Global" Starcraft II League. So now there are only three offline tournaments for Koreans to directly compete with Non-Koreans, IEM, GSL vs the World if it still exists and Blizzcon. The Korean Circuit includes the GSL  | ||
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lechatnoir
386 Posts
But I guess this will finally shut some people up on this board. Edit: And this must be very recent since it didn't mention it in the afeeca post about the qualifiers? Maybe the reason they were moved a couple of days. Odd. | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
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keaneu
Korea (South)65 Posts
On January 24 2019 16:03 lechatnoir wrote: Shame, that would mean the end for the unity house I guess. Lots of cool stuff came from that. But I guess this will finally shut some people up on this board. Edit: And this must be very recent since it didn't mention it in the afeeca post about the qualifiers? Maybe the reason they were moved a couple of days. Odd. Reason for delay was the patch hitting same-day. I doubt anyone would say that having the house is no longer viable for sponsors, given the low latency connection available for in-house players to a premier practice server, and sound participation in the local/CN online cups. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
I know its not "fair" that foreigners can play in both series before now but it is what worked for the scene and I can't see many if any giving WCS up for GSL (means no blizzcon most likely and a huge prize money drop) | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On January 24 2019 15:37 busyghost wrote: I do not know. If this is true then the existence of NoRegret's foreign teamhouse becomes meaningless and the sponsors should just pull out. The biggest irony about WCS and GSL is in their names. "World" Championships Series and "Global" Starcraft II League. So now there are only three offline tournaments for Koreans to directly compete with Non-Koreans, IEM, GSL vs the World if it still exists and Blizzcon. Why the teamhouse would be come meaningless ? They would just play GSL | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
From what I understand is, They can only not compete in WCS Challenger. They can still play in the main events of WCS. It shouldn't change too much but its a bit unfortunate because I don't think this accomplishes anything towards helping amateur Korean players. So that's a pretty big difference. An official announcement from Blizzard would really be nice though. | ||
Waxangel
United States33418 Posts
On January 24 2019 16:31 pvsnp wrote: According to NoRegret: So that's a pretty big difference. An official announcement from Blizzard would really be nice though. That actually doesn't mean anything because WCS Challenger doesn't exist and hasn't been announced. It literally clarifies nothing. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On January 24 2019 16:33 Waxangel wrote: That actually doesn't mean anything because WCS Challenger doesn't exist and hasn't been announced. It literally clarifies nothing. If we take Noregret at his word, wouldn't that mean that WCS Challenger is confirmed? Personally I don't think it's a huge stretch to imagine that WCS Challenger will be a thing in 2019, and they just haven't gotten around to announcing it yet. The WCS system doesn't just spring into existence the instant that Blizzard makes its official announcement. And if I remember correctly, wasn't "Either GSL or WCS Challenger" the same deal that TRUE got last year? | ||
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Waxangel
United States33418 Posts
On January 24 2019 16:34 pvsnp wrote: If we take Noregret at his word, wouldn't that mean that WCS Challenger is confirmed? Personally I don't think it's a huge stretch to imagine that WCS Challenger will be a thing in 2019, and they just haven't gotten around to announcing it yet. The WCS system doesn't just spring into existence the instant that Blizzard makes its official announcement. And if I remember correctly, wasn't "Either GSL or WCS Challenger" the same deal that TRUE got? Okay then you are literally just speculating. And that was not what happened to TRUE was at all—it was based around the # of days you need to reside in a Circuit region to stay eligible. Seriously I should just delete your posts because they are 90% misinformation. | ||
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GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
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lechatnoir
386 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On January 24 2019 16:40 Waxangel wrote: Okay then you are literally just speculating. And that was not what happened to TRUE was at all—it was based around the # of days you need to reside in a Circuit region to stay eligible. Seriously I should just delete your posts because they are 90% misinformation. With all due respect, isn't everyone in this thread speculating? We've got zero official information. What makes my speculation so egregious? And here's the Blizzard announcement about TRUE, which is literally titled "TRUE Chooses GSL over Challenger." I get that TRUE being Korean means some visa and residency stuff, but doesn't it still boil down to "Either GSL or WCS Challenger" like I said? | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 24 2019 16:42 pvsnp wrote: With all due respect, isn't everyone in this thread speculating? We've got zero official information. What makes my speculation so egregious? And here's the Blizzard announcement about TRUE, which is literally titled "TRUE Chooses GSL over Challenger." I get that TRUE being Korean means some visa and residency stuff, but doesn't it still boil down to "Either GSL or WCS Challenger" like I said? Stop dragging TRUE into this, different thing. TL, DR about TRUE: You have to live 30 days in the region before competing otherwise you're not eligible to compete as a Korean in WCS(#noRacism). Because of this shitty rule you cannot in these 30 days compete in GSL as GSL is an offline tournament. Therefore TRUE had to choose if he goes to Korea and competes in GSL and thus loses the possibility to compete in the next WCS or stays and gives up GSL. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On January 24 2019 17:06 deacon.frost wrote: Stop dragging TRUE into this, different thing. TL, DR about TRUE: You have to live 30 days in the region before competing otherwise you're not eligible to compete as a Korean in WCS(#noRacism). Because of this shitty rule you cannot in these 30 days compete in GSL as GSL is an offline tournament. Therefore TRUE had to choose if he goes to Korea and competes in GSL and thus loses the possibility to compete in the next WCS or stays and gives up GSL. Thanks for explaining. I understand that TRUE, being Korean, is forced to follow the 30-day residency rule. So if what Noregret said is correct, this means foreigners would be able to play in GSL, fly out for a weekend to play in WCS (open bracket), and then return to play in GSL again. I think? | ||
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v5872012
35 Posts
On January 24 2019 17:12 pvsnp wrote: Thanks for explaining. I understand that TRUE, being Korean, is forced to follow the 30-day residency rule. So if what Noregret said is correct, this means foreigners would be able to play in GSL, fly out for a weekend to play in WCS (open bracket), and then return to play in GSL again. I think? TIME was plan to fly to Korea since GSL Offline S1 Qualifier gonna start at 25 Jan KST. It's literally tomorrow. And now he have to cancel his flight since this. | ||
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Elmonti
Spain299 Posts
It would also mean the closure of the foreigner house in Korea, since non of them would be even close to get enough points to qualify for Blizzcon (unless they stay in Korea for different reasons non related to SC2, like they prefer to live there, etc.). | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On January 24 2019 17:27 v5872012 wrote: TIME was plan to fly to Korea since GSL Offline S1 Qualifier gonna start at 25 Jan KST. It's literally tomorrow. And now he have to cancel his flight since this. Given the limited information available, I don't think I can understand why he would do that. If what Noregret is says is true, then he could still play in GSL and then just go to the WCS open bracket. Unless he doesn't believe he can make it through the open bracket at WCS events? If we're lucky, Blizzard will say something about this tomorrow or Friday. | ||
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v5872012
35 Posts
On January 24 2019 17:36 pvsnp wrote: Given the limited information available, I don't think I can understand why he would do that. If what Noregret is says is true, then he could still play in GSL and then just go to the WCS open bracket. Unless he doesn't believe he can make it through the open bracket at WCS events? Cloudy told TIME that the rules was changed before TIME gonna take the flight. Cloudy did not mention any information about GSL Challenger or things like that. Since TIME did not post the exact information about Cloudy's email. Perhaps Cloudy misunderstood the email or NoRegret misunderstood the rules. | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
With that being said, the announcements and communication with the public by Blizzard has been super choppy recently, I wonder what's up with that.. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On January 24 2019 17:42 v5872012 wrote: Cloudy told TIME that the rules was changed before TIME gonna take the flight. Cloudy did not mention any information about GSL Challenger or things like that. Since TIME did not post the exact information about Cloudy's email. Perhaps Cloudy misunderstood the email or NoRegret misunderstood the rules. I think are just too many unknowns to do more than speculate right now. Hopefully Blizzard clarifies things soon. | ||
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Rodya
546 Posts
And stop saying that viewership will plummet, no one likes to watch Elazer get roflstomped by Rogue and Maru. The only foreigner that people enjoy watching play in GSL is Scarlett. And Scarlett's fans aren't all going to stop watching GSL because she can't play. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 24 2019 18:04 Rodya wrote: All the foreigners that have planned to play in GSL also plan to play in every single WCS event (there's no reason not to...). Don't act like this announcement would screw them over; they just get a slightly less money (unlikely that most of them would even qualify for GSL anyway). And stop saying that viewership will plummet, no one likes to watch Elazer get roflstomped by Rogue and Maru. The only foreigner that people enjoy watching play in GSL is Scarlett. And Scarlett's fans aren't all going to stop watching GSL because she can't play. Technically speaking mjr Special, Raynor and Neeb should be able to get into RO16. So while I agree on the Elazer thingy, at least these 3 are capable and won't get stomped. On January 24 2019 17:12 pvsnp wrote: Thanks for explaining. I understand that TRUE, being Korean, is forced to follow the 30-day residency rule. So if what Noregret said is correct, this means foreigners would be able to play in GSL, fly out for a weekend to play in WCS (open bracket), and then return to play in GSL again. I think? According to the old rules and ShoeRegret - yes, that's how I understand it as well. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
On January 24 2019 16:26 Zaros wrote: Terrible decision and I wouldn't be surprised if it unintentionally finishes off Korean SC2, the biggest viewership for GSL comes when a foreigner is in the tournament and it is still pretty hard for them to qualify. Instead of seeing Serral or Neeb now we get to see emotion or nightmare or DRGLing (if they even play anymore.) I know its not "fair" that foreigners can play in both series before now but it is what worked for the scene and I can't see many if any giving WCS up for GSL (means no blizzcon most likely and a huge prize money drop) Terrible decision - we might see up and comers now this is stupid. Don't give them the chance to qualify THE KOREAN SCENE MUST DIE And it didn't work for the scene, it only worked for elitist foreigner fanboys who don't care about koreans getting fucked over. Ask DRGling or ByuL if the system worked | ||
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SinO[Ob]
France897 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On January 24 2019 19:34 Charoisaur wrote: for elitist foreigner fanboys  ))you do like your oxymorons, dont you? | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On January 24 2019 19:34 Charoisaur wrote: Terrible decision - we might see up and comers now this is stupid. Don't give them the chance to qualify THE KOREAN SCENE MUST DIE And it didn't work for the scene, it only worked for elitist foreigner fanboys who don't care about koreans getting fucked over. Ask DRGling or ByuL if the system worked We don't really know the exact terms of this decision, so we'd better wait before speaking; only koreans allowed in GSL would be consistent with the region lock now that apparently even EU and NA have separate leagues. In any of case, you should ask GSL's organizers if the audience was indeed better when there were foreigners in the competition; as for newcomers, there were more than a few in 2017 and it most likely wasn't the "army of foreigners" to make them resign but the extremely top heavy prize distribution. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
If they really do force players to pick a region, it would definitely be more fair than now, but it could easily backfire because of the devaluation of Korean Starcraft as a product for advertisers, which could lead to its death -- especially if Blizzard is scaling down the financial support. I still think the best option would be to end region lock and instead support Korean starcraft as the engine that propels all of starcraft forward. We can already see this potential from the fact that NoRegret's teamhouse is so popular, and so many foreigner wants to participate in the GSL. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 24 2019 20:53 Xain0n wrote: We don't really know the exact terms of this decision, so we'd better wait before speaking; only koreans allowed in GSL would be consistent with the region lock now that apparently even EU and NA have separate leagues. In any of case, you should ask GSL's organizers if the audience was indeed better when there were foreigners in the competition; as for newcomers, there were more than a few in 2017 and it most likely wasn't the "army of foreigners" to make them resign but the extremely top heavy prize distribution. *cough* the reason why Charoisaur mentioned DRGling is because he didn't qualify because of a foreigner *cough* Ignore me, I'm just having a terrible terrible | ||
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Kaizor
Singapore909 Posts
This is totally unacceptable, considering that we have foreigners living in korea now that were under the impression that they were going to be able to compete in GSL. Changes will always happen but the timing of it is completely ridiculous. But after seeing what happen with Heroes e-sports, i guess this is how blizzard operates now. This is not the Blizzard that i once loved. All good things come to an end, and no king rules forever. Hugely disappointed with all the bs that is coming from them recently. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On January 24 2019 20:58 deacon.frost wrote: *cough* the reason why Charoisaur mentioned DRGling is because he didn't qualify because of a foreigner *cough* Ignore me, I'm just having a terrible terrible Well it's not a surprise foreigner qualified most of the times at the expense of a korean, in GSL; DRGLing actually made it to the GSL once without any notable result, it's not like he was dominating online cups and minor competitions and foreigners didn't allow him to play on the most prestigious field every time. Unlike top koreans in foreigner circuits back in HoTS, foreigners in GSL never were more than five and never went deeper than ro4; it's unrealistic to believe such an absymal presence outright killed all the promising young koreans. That's not what we were discussing anyway; not having foreigners in GSL it's fair but it makes it less tasty to me. On the other hand there are more chanches to see Prince and TOP/Kiwian advance so it isn't that bad. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 24 2019 21:32 Xain0n wrote: Well it's not a surprise foreigner qualified most of the times at the expense of a korean, in GSL; DRGLing actually made it to the GSL once without any notable result, it's not like he was dominating online cups and minor competitions and foreigners didn't allow him to play on the most prestigious field every time. Unlike top koreans in foreigner circuits back in HoTS, foreigners in GSL never were more than five and never went deeper than ro4; it's unrealistic to believe such an absymal presence outright killed all the promising young koreans. That's not what we were discussing anyway; not having foreigners in GSL it's fair but it makes it less tasty to me. On the other hand there are more chanches to see Prince and TOP/Kiwian advance so it isn't that bad. 5 foreigners means 5 more players to play against which makes the competition of the best region even more deadly to new & beginning players. I don't understand I have to explain this. If you're new you need to get to the level of getting money which means in Korea you have to compete against top Koreans AND AT HE SAME FUCKING TIME all the top foreigners - Serral. Edit> It's the same reason why the WCS was locked in the past. About the "viewership". GSL currently is in its worst time slot considering foreign audience. Wednesday 10:30 AM CET. Weeeee. The problem is most of their audience is at work or in bed(in case of the NA audience). Just admit it, SC2 audience is rather old. Saturday 6 AM CET(or w/e is the time for the NA audience day) means many Europeans are in bed. If they want to treat the western audience, maybe, just maybe, consider better time slots than what do we have now. As of right now I cannot watch the streams as I am at work and then I am in bed but I would love to. No matter whom they allow in the GSL I will NOT watch it because of the time slot. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On January 24 2019 21:49 deacon.frost wrote: 5 foreigners means 5 more players to play against which makes the competition of the best region even more deadly to new & beginning players. I don't understand I have to explain this. If you're new you need to get to the level of getting money which means in Korea you have to compete against top Koreans AND AT HE SAME FUCKING TIME all the top foreigners - Serral. Edit> It's the same reason why the WCS was locked in the past. About the "viewership". GSL currently is in its worst time slot considering foreign audience. Wednesday 10:30 AM CET. Weeeee. The problem is most of their audience is at work or in bed(in case of the NA audience). Just admit it, SC2 audience is rather old. Saturday 6 AM CET(or w/e is the time for the NA audience day) means many Europeans are in bed. If they want to treat the western audience, maybe, just maybe, consider better time slots than what do we have now. As of right now I cannot watch the streams as I am at work and then I am in bed but I would love to. No matter whom they allow in the GSL I will NOT watch it because of the time slot. GSL's time slot is definitely not the best for western audience. Locking GSL now has absolutely nothing to do with the region lock of WCS happened in the past; not only koreans in WCS were on average more in number than foreigners in GSL, they were dominating the tournaments while sometimes not even being the best players in Korea(Pigbaby, Duckdeok just to name a few)! I don't remember NoRegreT storming GSL upsetting all the best koreans… Serral never tried to play GSL and a couple of some of the best foreigners(still inferior to the best koreans) shouldn't be able to stop new korean talents from emerging: it's not like Nightmare and co reached the semifinals after barely qualifying against hordes of foreigners. They didn't get to ro16 and, even if they had, they wouldn't have gained much money and no pro korean team would have offered them a contract. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
On January 24 2019 23:49 opisska wrote: I don't understand why so many people support locking foreigners out GSL. Yeah, spite and revenge, the core values that should motivate everything, whoo hoo! I don't think non-Koreans should be locked out of GSL, but shouldn't they be subject to the same choice that Koreans face? Play in one scene or another. Anything else is incredibly unfair. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
But let's just wait for the official announcement. | ||
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Arceus
Vietnam8333 Posts
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
On January 24 2019 23:33 Xain0n wrote: Serral never tried to play GSL and a couple of some of the best foreigners(still inferior to the best koreans) shouldn't be able to stop new korean talents from emerging: So korean up and comers should be able to somehow surpass the top foreigners in skill before being allowed to make money? But when it was the other way around that foreigners had to beat top koreans for a high tournament finish it was somehow unfair? | ||
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Elmonti
Spain299 Posts
On January 25 2019 01:07 fishjie wrote: Good move, poorly executed. Better move - remove idiotic region lock and let Koreans take foreigner lunch money again - if they are able to beat Serral. Save the korean sc2 scene before its gone forever The korean SC2 scene is gonna die in 2-3 years no matter what, since it's a problem of SC2's low popularity, not about 2-3 pros getting GSL money (this pros wouldn't be young talents, but tier 3 koreans like Impact, Ragnarok, Creator, etc.). Removing Region Lock would also destroy the foreigner scene, and preventing young talents (kids like Reynor, Clem, even Serral at the time) to grow. And the foreign scene is the one supporting the 90% of the game. So choose: inequality or killing the game. | ||
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Topin
Peru10081 Posts
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Brutaxilos
United States2629 Posts
On January 25 2019 01:39 Elmonti wrote: The korean SC2 scene is gonna die in 2-3 years no matter what, since it's a problem of SC2's low popularity, not about 2-3 pros getting GSL money (this pros wouldn't be young talents, but tier 3 koreans like Impact, Ragnarok, Creator, etc.). Removing Region Lock would also destroy the foreigner scene, and preventing young talents (kids like Reynor, Clem, even Serral at the time) to grow. And the foreign scene is the one supporting the 90% of the game. So choose: inequality or killing the game. Dude, Reynor and Clem can easily hold their own against Koreans. Stop treating them like they're some amateur newby that needs help to survive. Reynor is easily top 5 foreigner and probably top 5 Zerg right now. | ||
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Elmonti
Spain299 Posts
On January 25 2019 01:56 Brutaxilos wrote: Dude, Reynor and Clem can easily hold their own against Koreans. Stop treating them like they're some amateur newby that needs help to survive. Reynor is easily top 5 foreigner and probably top 5 Zerg right now. Reynor can, since he is probably the most promising young foreigner of all times. No other "young" talent can be even close to the top20 koreans right now (average results). | ||
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Brutaxilos
United States2629 Posts
On January 25 2019 02:10 Elmonti wrote: Reynor can, since he is probably the most promising young foreigner of all times. No other "young" talent can be even close to the top20 koreans right now (average results). Alright then, why does Clem deserve support when someone like DRGLing doesn't? I still don't buy the argument that "foreign money" is somehow supporting the scene. There is no foreign money, its Starcraft money. When you buy a Warchest, it doesn't matter where the players purchasing are from, it goes to the scene all together. | ||
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DreamlnCode
United Kingdom77 Posts
IMO region locking in an E-sports game is ridiculous, And now it's happening at the both sides of the spectrum. An eye for an eye i guess. Competition should be based on raw skill, not the location on where your mother dropped your fetus. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On January 25 2019 01:20 Charoisaur wrote: So korean up and comers should be able to somehow surpass the top foreigners in skill before being allowed to make money? But when it was the other way around that foreigners had to beat top koreans for a high tournament finish it was somehow unfair? I already said that it's FAIR that GSL becomes locked the way WCS is, just that I personally liked it open to everyone. Given the very low number of foreigners trying to qualify it's much more likely korean up and comers would have to overcome top or mid tier koreans in order to be able to play in GSL; the truth is that unfortunately korean up and comers are very few as well. Back in HoTS koreans(not only top ones, but notably almost nonames) were a huge obstacle to the best foreigner players, not just young promising ones, and the western scene as a whole, despite being much more active and rich in potential talents than current korean one, was strangled and diminished as a consequence of that; at least in WCS AM they number of korean was higher than five, too. I don't see how can you equate these two situations, the difference in magnitude is crystal clear to me. | ||
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Elmonti
Spain299 Posts
On January 25 2019 02:21 Brutaxilos wrote: Alright then, why does Clem deserve support when someone like DRGLing doesn't? I still don't buy the argument that "foreign money" is somehow supporting the scene. There is no foreign money, its Starcraft money. When you buy a Warchest, it doesn't matter where the players purchasing are from, it goes to the scene all together. It's not Starcraft viewership. It's viewership from EEUU, France, Germany, Canada, Mexico, etc. and its the vast majority compared to the South Korean viewership. So you must have that in mind when you decide to make a move like that and cripple one or more scenes. Warchest adds 200k to IEM or Blizzcons ... Viewership is WAY more important. Like both things are not in the same league. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Elentos
55552 Posts
On January 25 2019 03:37 chipmonklord17 wrote: Thank god the totally existent amateur scene won't get beaten in qualifiers by NoRegret, Scarlett, Neeb, Major, and Raynor. Now they'll get beaten by MC, Taeja, Fantasy, Top, and Parting instead. #Progress I'm honestly not convinced by Top in that list. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On January 25 2019 03:37 chipmonklord17 wrote: Thank god the totally existent amateur scene won't get beaten in qualifiers by NoRegret, Scarlett, Neeb, Major, and Raynor. Now they'll get beaten by MC, Taeja, Fantasy, Top, and Parting instead. #Progress At least those ones will compete for something because they can earn WCS Korea points unlike the others.... | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Brutaxilos
United States2629 Posts
On January 25 2019 03:24 Elmonti wrote: It's not Starcraft viewership. It's viewership from EEUU, France, Germany, Canada, Mexico, etc. and its the vast majority compared to the South Korean viewership. So you must have that in mind when you decide to make a move like that and cripple one or more scenes. Warchest adds 200k to IEM or Blizzcons ... Viewership is WAY more important. Like both things are not in the same league. Again, why is it okay that the money generated by viewers from, say, the USA goes to a Finnish player, but not okay if it goes to a Korean player? Why does Korea have to support itself, when all the other countries get the benefit of "foreign money". How many viewers does Finland provide? We should region lock Finland and make Blizzcon American players only!! | ||
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TheWendiGo_
Germany5 Posts
I can get behind it a little, why there were region locks, so the foreign scene wouldn't just be a Korean stomp fest. Locking each region out, will only accomplish a decrease in viewership. If anything, I think one of the stops from the wcs circuit should be in Korea. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16719 Posts
On January 24 2019 17:52 Akio wrote: I think the overall choice to make this change is good, and I'm glad the tweet Solar posted speaking for the Korean pros actually had some impact. With that being said, the announcements and communication with the public by Blizzard has been super choppy recently, I wonder what's up with that.. On January 24 2019 20:55 sneakyfox wrote: It's frankly astonishing that there is still no public announcement about these things from Blizzard. One day away from GSL qualifiers and the rule changes start seeping out, but nobody knows what's what and it only adds to the confusion. Such incompetence is incredible. If they really do force players to pick a region, it would definitely be more fair than now, but it could easily backfire because of the devaluation of Korean Starcraft as a product for advertisers, which could lead to its death -- especially if Blizzard is scaling down the financial support. I still think the best option would be to end region lock and instead support Korean starcraft as the engine that propels all of starcraft forward. We can already see this potential from the fact that NoRegret's teamhouse is so popular, and so many foreigner wants to participate in the GSL. On January 24 2019 20:55 sneakyfox wrote: It's frankly astonishing that there is still no public announcement about these things from Blizzard. One day away from GSL qualifiers and the rule changes start seeping out, but nobody knows what's what and it only adds to the confusion. Such incompetence is incredible. this is what happens when you have a brand new company prez and the company in cost cutting mode. not only do we not know what is going on... its highly probable many front line employees and mid-level management people don't know what is going on either. | ||
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Torvaltz
United States188 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33418 Posts
really hope it's just a Chinese community rumor that came out of miscommunication | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 25 2019 07:48 Waxangel wrote: would definitely be nice to get some clarification from anyone really hope it's just a Chinese community rumor that came out of miscommunication Miscommunication? Not sure what's worse, if the silent treatment and way too close change of rules or miscommunication. Both seems to me similarly horrible. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33418 Posts
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
On January 25 2019 14:34 Waxangel wrote: Multiple foreigners including a Chinese player participating now. What's up? It looks like some non-Koreans were walked-over so they may have withdrawn last minute, but there are a couple who played so it's not clear. They may just end up forfeiting their spot if they make it. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On January 25 2019 04:25 Elentos wrote: I'm honestly not convinced by Top in that list. Like poetry, Top knocked out some rookie named Mafia | ||
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Waxangel
United States33418 Posts
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Snakestyle11
191 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33418 Posts
On January 25 2019 20:03 Snakestyle11 wrote: The fact that they strangely havent told us anything yet almost definitely points towards some big down sizing. They never had trouble giving us informations early in the past, and there shouldnt be any reason now.. Or should it? With the recent Diablo:immortal drama, the heroes of the storm league sudden shut down... They probably could not afford more negative business publicity so soon; as it would be very bad for business and stock values maybe? Seems they are waiting as long as possible..they cant afford more bad PR so soon..all at the same time would really scare off the investors maybe? I dont know much about that business but seems like the only reason. After all, the reason is almost always money in 2019, no matter what we are talking about. uhhhmmm... that's totally unrelated to what I'm talking about (whether or not WCS Circuit players can 'double-dip' into both Circuit and GSL) | ||
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Kelerher
9 Posts
On January 25 2019 19:55 Waxangel wrote: Aight so the players who have already qualified for WCS Circuit (SpeCial, Scarlett, TIME) appear to have forfeited or been walked over, while the players who did NOT qualify for WCS Circuit gave the GSL qualifiers a shot (SortOf, Cloudy). Seems like the supposed "pick-one-region" rule might really have been implemented? Actually SortOf qualified to WCS Winter EU, as I remember. With that situation looks quite a mess. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33418 Posts
On January 25 2019 20:48 Kelerher wrote: Actually SortOf qualified to WCS Winter EU, as I remember. With that situation looks quite a mess. oh whoops, missed that in that case it's really just chaos and I'm not sure what's up here | ||
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Mountain_Lee
87 Posts
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parrotpitaya
Germany37 Posts
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Mudbuddha13
9 Posts
difference is WCS has blocked korean players since whenever, GSL is pretty competition friendly. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
These contradictions are confusing. And we still don't know anything concrete, about region-lock or even WCS 2019 as a whole. Blizzard please. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On January 31 2019 07:11 pvsnp wrote: Major refused to comment about his withdrawal from GSL and told people to ask Blizzard (good luck with that). Given Showtime's comments on the same and all the withdrawals from GSL, it's self-evident that region-lock won't work the same way it did last year. Except Scarlett qualified for GSL and still appears to be participating in WCS. These contradictions are confusing. And we still don't know anything concrete, about region-lock or even WCS 2019 as a whole. Blizzard please. Yep. I can understand a total foreigner ban, but the fact that Scarlett still gets to do both makes me wonder. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6934 Posts
 It's gotta be sth to do with perma living in Korea, which Scarlett kinda does | ||
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Elmonti
Spain299 Posts
I asked Sortof in one of his streams a couple days ago why Special didn't try to qualify, and he said he chose to play LATAM Challenger (Copa América, which can pay him up to 4k$ per season, more than qualifying for GSL, he made 12k$ last year and 600 WCS points only with his Challenger). We will see when Scarlett (1.6k$ for first place in NA challenger with Neeb and Masa) or Sortof (too much level in EU) play in WCS stops. Regarding the "ask Blizzard not me", "I'm not saying anything", etc. well.... it's Juanito we're talking about, as much as I like him he has always had this behaviour. Blizzard should release an official statement once and for all though. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On January 31 2019 18:11 Elmonti wrote: They (Noregret, Sortof, etc.) said playing GSL qualifiers bans you from playing WCS Challenger for future WCS Stops... WCS Winter has nothing to do with this. I asked Sortof in one of his streams a couple days ago why Special didn't try to qualify, and he said he chose to play LATAM Challenger (Copa América, which can pay him up to 4k$ per season, more than qualifying for GSL, he made 12k$ last year and 600 WCS points only with his Challenger). We will see when Scarlett (1.6k$ for first place in NA challenger with Neeb and Masa) or Sortof (too much level in EU) play in WCS stops. Regarding the "ask Blizzard not me", "I'm not saying anything", etc. well.... it's Juanito we're talking about, as much as I like him he has always had this behaviour. Blizzard should release an official statement once and for all though. If this is the case, why is Scarlett allowed to play both? | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
derp. | ||
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William paradise
1753 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On February 01 2019 16:19 William paradise wrote: Scarlett said this might be her last gsl cause of the new rules with wcs But did Scarlett say anything about why all the other foreigners didn't want to play in one last GSL? | ||
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Elmonti
Spain299 Posts
On February 01 2019 12:53 mierin wrote: If this is the case, why is Scarlett allowed to play both? Because as I said, WCS Winter has nothing to do with WCS Challenger, it just had a normal qualifier, without prize or WCS points. WCS stops do have Challenger. On February 02 2019 19:03 pvsnp wrote: But did Scarlett say anything about why all the other foreigners didn't want to play in one last GSL? She didn't. But all the europeans left the house without having news on GSL qualifiers, only Sortof stayed, and he tried to qualify. In the case of Special, his Challenger (Copa América) is easier and more rewarding than qualifying for GSLRo32. | ||
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FvRGg
68 Posts
The scene is not going to die because this waited until 2020. I'm sure GSL is not pleased about it either because foreigners have been bringing them some views, and now that several foreigners are top 20 in the world, GSL sort of loses its sheen as the pinnacle of open competition in starcraft. I just fail to understand how completely inconsiderate blizzard is to all who are involved. I would expect an apology to the players with an announcement when it finally comes. | ||
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selmaquuen96
3 Posts
On January 24 2019 14:51 v5872012 wrote: Edited: TIME said he doesn't want to cause any trouble, so I will not show their communication record. According to TIME and Cloudy, two Chinese progamer who was lived in Korea camp, said, non-korean players who play in GSL events cannot play in WCS events anymore since rules was changed. It was still not confirmed by Blizzard official. Sry about my bad english skill Money, dude. Everything costs money. It doesn't matter where you get the money from, it only matter how much you have, and what you spend it on. They might make tons of money on Diablo micro transactions in china, and if they think OWL is the future, they can put all of it into that. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10674 Posts
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EvanC
Canada130 Posts
On February 01 2019 16:19 William paradise wrote: Scarlett said this might be her last gsl cause of the new rules with wcs This would be so sad. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
This is good. No more double standards. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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Elentos
55552 Posts
On February 03 2019 00:36 Zzoram wrote: It’s been a staple of GSL since the beginning though, there has almost always been a foreigner in the qualifiers that sometimes gets to the Ro32 before getting bopped Well they wouldn't be banned from GSL. Just forced to make a choice, like the Koreans. Would be real nice to have a WCS announcement though... | ||
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darksagus
United States39 Posts
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