EPTPower Rank: July 2018 - Page 6
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Soularion
Canada2764 Posts
On August 05 2018 20:38 Charoisaur wrote: where is Stats in this ranking? I called this shit before it happened. Stats is good. No idea why you guys didn't respect him. Always amusing to see people saying "I told you so" after an upset tournament run. Sometimes you're right with your prediction, sometimes you're just as wrong. I think we all kind of underestimate Stats and him getting CBNC here was obviously incorrect in hindsight, but unlike Serral he had multiple cases in the past of struggling and no real signs of good form. Meanwhile Serral has put up insane win rates against foreigners and made top 3 at WESG over Classic, top 4 at Katowice. He literally had the results and the play of a top korean and just didn't have the opportunity, so instead of betting with play a lot of people bet illogically that he wouldn't play as great as he's played all year for whatever reason even though he's clearly played great in almost every series he's played all year. I would've had Serral #2 or #3 coming into this tournament and I predicted him advancing in all 3 rounds. That's my point. This isn't an upset. Serral is really good. Similarly Stats going 7 games with him shouldn't be an upset either, although that Maru series was pretty weird so it's tough to say exactly where Stats stands. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On August 05 2018 20:38 Charoisaur wrote: where is Stats in this ranking? I called this shit before it happened. Stats is good. No idea why you guys didn't respect him. Always amusing to see people saying "I told you so" after an upset tournament run. Sometimes you're right with your prediction, sometimes you're just as wrong. Always amusing to watch elitists who think they re clever because they constantly shit on foreigners and hype the Koreans get bitch-slapped in the face by the results. But i can already see the mental gymnastics starting, oh it s just an upset.....it s not real GSL event.. he hasnt faced Rogue.....the wind was blowing too hard... If someone couldnt accept the fact that Serral is right on par with the top koreans BEFORE this event, that person just doesnt understand starcraft or is being a complete idiot. Results are one thing, but by watching his games should be obvious for everyone how good he was and is. Even if things turned out differently, and Serral loses say 4-2 in the finals, he would still be right up there with the best of them. | ||
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MisterL
Germany24 Posts
On July 09 2018 11:22 Haikus wrote: Putting dear at #10 over inno and $O$ is looking really silly now after yesterday huh... edit: Also, serral at #6??? Holy mary mother of foreigner bias. Hahahaha :D Yeah, Serral wouldn't stand a chance against any korean, not even close, how can these foolish people rank him that high? Oh wait /s | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 05 2018 20:47 Soularion wrote: Meanwhile Serral has put up insane win rates against foreigners and made top 3 at WESG over Classic, top 4 at Katowice. He literally had the results and the play of a top korean and just didn't have the opportunity, so instead of betting with play a lot of people bet illogically that he wouldn't play as great as he's played all year for whatever reason even though he's clearly played great in almost every series he's played all year. Regardless of how well he played here, I'd still argue Serral's results before weren't enough to call him top 1,2,3 or whatever. Katowice was impressive in terms of result, but he didn't have the hardest route to the ro4. Classic was the first player he met that TL considered top 10 going into the event, and he lost 0-3 to him. If Trap didn't throw game 3, people would have forgotten about the run just like last year's tragedy against Dark. Fair enough if you argue he was a top player based on judging his skill level in wcs. But the results weren't there. | ||
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Soularion
Canada2764 Posts
On August 06 2018 07:45 Fango wrote: Regardless of how well he played here, I'd still argue Serral's results before weren't enough to call him top 1,2,3 or whatever. Katowice was impressive in terms of result, but he didn't have the hardest route to the ro4. Classic was the first player he met that TL considered top 10 going into the event, and he lost 0-3 to him. If Trap didn't throw game 3, people would have forgotten about the run just like last year's tragedy against Dark. Fair enough if you argue he was a top player based on judging his skill level in wcs. But the results weren't there. But that's a pretty myopic view. In the context of the event he proved that he has damn good ZvZ, beating Rogue who has become since by all means a tier-2 ZvZ in my eyes (some people argue he's equal to soO/Dark, I think he has similar highs but not as consistent), beating Impact who is probably tier-3 ZvZ, beating Trap who was at the time one of the best PvZ players even though his other two matchups were quite bad. On top of that you add him whooping Classic at WESG and going on a 20-some odd series win streak in Bo3+ since, and it's clear to see that Serral was at minimum a top 5 player and in my opinion a top 3 player going into this event - not purely because of his skill, but also because a lot of the other contenders for that spot (Classic, Dark) had big holes in their resumes where as Serral had been near-flawless for months. | ||
Waxangel
United States33277 Posts
On August 05 2018 20:35 Soularion wrote: Listen I called all of this shit before it happened. Some of you guys needed to respect what Serral was doing and all I can do is hope that you do now. The dude is seriously fucking good. Take the victory lap with grace, kid. You know, like Serral. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 06 2018 12:36 Soularion wrote: But that's a pretty myopic view. In the context of the event he proved that he has damn good ZvZ, beating Rogue who has become since by all means a tier-2 ZvZ in my eyes (some people argue he's equal to soO/Dark, I think he has similar highs but not as consistent), beating Impact who is probably tier-3 ZvZ, beating Trap who was at the time one of the best PvZ players even though his other two matchups were quite bad. On top of that you add him whooping Classic at WESG and going on a 20-some odd series win streak in Bo3+ since, and it's clear to see that Serral was at minimum a top 5 player and in my opinion a top 3 player going into this event - not purely because of his skill, but also because a lot of the other contenders for that spot (Classic, Dark) had big holes in their resumes where as Serral had been near-flawless for months. Beating players outside the top 10 doesn't make anyone top 3 in my opinion. His Katowice run was just overrated in my eyes, Classic was the first elite player he met and he got absolutely destroyed. He would have lost 0-3 to Trap as well if he didn't throw the eastwatch map. And lets not forget Neeb was beating him until the pc lagged out and he lost his entire army because of it. This was all before the ZvP nerfs as well. In short, I think ro4 is good on paper, but his run to get there wasn't that hard. (Beating Classic in the 3rd place match at WeSG was good though, I agree with that) But people still hold him to a much easier standard than koreans. Solar for example also went 5-0 in his Katowice group, against better players. The reason he didn't make ro4 like Serral is because he met Maru in the ro8, who I think we can all agree would have roasted Serral as well. The only reason Solar didn't qualify for WeSG as well is because he lost 2-1 to Maru in the qualifiers, in the actual event Serral lost 3-0 to that same player. Yet no one has put Solar on a top-anything list this year. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On August 06 2018 23:57 Fango wrote: Beating players outside the top 10 doesn't make anyone top 3 in my opinion. His Katowice run was just overrated in my eyes, Classic was the first elite player he met and he got absolutely destroyed. He would have lost 0-3 to Trap as well if he didn't throw the eastwatch map. And lets not forget Neeb was beating him until the pc lagged out and he lost his entire army because of it. This was all before the ZvP nerfs as well. In short, I think ro4 is good on paper, but his run to get there wasn't that hard. (Beating Classic in the 3rd place match at WeSG was good though, I agree with that) But people still hold him to a much easier standard than koreans. Solar for example also went 5-0 in his Katowice group, against better players. The reason he didn't make ro4 like Serral is because he met Maru in the ro8, who I think we can all agree would have roasted Serral as well. The only reason Solar didn't qualify for WeSG as well is because he lost 2-1 to Maru in the qualifiers, in the actual event Serral lost 3-0 to that same player. Yet no one has put Solar on a top-anything list this year. welcome to the world where losing to Maru is a feat of strength, and winning several WCS-es and beating people outside TL power ranks dont count for anything. | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
On July 09 2018 11:22 Haikus wrote: Putting dear at #10 over inno and $O$ is looking really silly now after yesterday huh... edit: Also, serral at #6??? Holy mary mother of foreigner bias. The bias I see here is that stats who made top 4 last 2 GSLs is not in the list, while Gumiho and TY there are 2 players that should not be part of that list at all, or maybe TY at the very bottom at best. On July 11 2018 02:51 Soularion wrote: The Serral hate in this thread makes me very disappointed. Ya'll need Finnish jesus. It is because he is no terran and TL + users hate on everything that is non terran by habits and traditions. On August 05 2018 20:49 Geo.Rion wrote: Always amusing to watch elitists who think they re clever because they constantly shit on foreigners and hype the Koreans get bitch-slapped in the face by the results. But i can already see the mental gymnastics starting, oh it s just an upset.....it s not real GSL event.. he hasnt faced Rogue.....the wind was blowing too hard... If someone couldnt accept the fact that Serral is right on par with the top koreans BEFORE this event, that person just doesnt understand starcraft or is being a complete idiot. Results are one thing, but by watching his games should be obvious for everyone how good he was and is. Even if things turned out differently, and Serral loses say 4-2 in the finals, he would still be right up there with the best of them. The real reason is that he is not terran. If a foreigner terran was at serrals spot, barely anyone would doubt him but instead get very emotional (positive), hypetrain would be running. As zerg/protoss ppl usually are normal guys who can grant success to a player of another race, terrans here are racists unable to accept anything but terran, rigging reality as long as it is sufficient for their views. In the view of terrans here, eras of SC2 shift between phases where terrans naturally dominate and phases where they don't due to game imabalance. Whenever terran dominates (such as GomTvT MvP), the game is fine, whenever not, the game is getting imbalanced (PvZ Craft). Of course noone ever talked here about best player in the world until maru started to dominate. While I am not saying he is not the the best player in the world, I am pointing out that best player of the world is only ever an issue while terrans dominate. While others dominate it is due to circumstances, excuses of any kind, accusations. The last time best player of the world (before maru) was a thing to talk about was obviously innovation. Before it were Taeja, innovation, MvP. This is what ofc hitted Serral as well. If you did non rigged polls on TL about all-time best players of the world, all-time weakest race, all-time hardest to play race and current weakest race (no matter when actually), terran would win all 4 categories by a large margin. Before people come and say its getting old. Nope. You did this for 8 years here, and me commenting on this the 4th or 5th time is not yet at all getting old. It is a matter of fact. | ||
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Poopi
France12769 Posts
I am both a korean elitist and a terran balance whiner (I have been banned countless times for balance whining) yet I praised Serral and even liquidbetted on him for every round of GSL vs The World (except team league, didn't know the format well enough to predict nor watched the players list closely enough). Went as far as put him top 4 in my power rank. Plus, many people here on TL don't hate on non terrans, quite the contrary actually. About "best player in the world", that title was given (on LotV) to Dark / Zest in the first GSLs and before Blizzcon 2016, ByuN shortly after his miraculous run, probably Stats and / or TY around IEM 2017, INno / Rogue not too long after that, then and only then it was Maru? Serral results in this event are good but it's not enough to label him as best in the world yet, it's a very high level side event. It probably cements him as top 3/4 world along with his WCS dominant runs and display of skill in his games, but since he doesn't play in regular GSL we will need to wait for Blizzcon. | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
On August 05 2018 20:52 MisterL wrote: Hahahaha :D Yeah, Serral wouldn't stand a chance against any korean, not even close, how can these foolish people rank him that high? Oh wait /s Why did you wait a month before disagreeing with him? | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
On August 07 2018 18:42 Poopi wrote: What a load of bs LSN, wtf? I am both a korean elitist and a terran balance whiner (I have been banned countless times for balance whining) yet I praised Serral and even liquidbetted on him for every round of GSL vs The World (except team league, didn't know the format well enough to predict nor watched the players list closely enough). Went as far as put him top 4 in my power rank. Plus, many people here on TL don't hate on non terrans, quite the contrary actually. About "best player in the world", that title was given (on LotV) to Dark / Zest in the first GSLs and before Blizzcon 2016, ByuN shortly after his miraculous run, probably Stats and / or TY around IEM 2017, INno / Rogue not too long after that, then and only then it was Maru? Serral results in this event are good but it's not enough to label him as best in the world yet, it's a very high level side event. It probably cements him as top 3/4 world along with his WCS dominant runs and display of skill in his games, but since he doesn't play in regular GSL we will need to wait for Blizzcon. This is what I concluded by rigged reality. Anyway I am talking about trends and not about individuals not being able to break out of them - or that there are no exceptions. As well you seem to mix up casters, which mostly seem to be pretty neutral and anyway hype every new champion, with TL. The list of players you give is more or less a list of GSL champions which you claim have been shouted out best players of the world. But this is not the case at all. I just remember Rogue = Patchzerg, to just name the latest. None of the others were as well, while when Maru became GSL winner, it became instantly clear he is the new single best player of the world. Maybe it is easier for you to understand when we turn things around. Can you tell me whenever TL called out a patchterran GSL winner or even a bit lesser terran player as patchterran? Can you tell me whenever TL released anything similar as PvZ craft but in the opposite direction? Can you tell me when a non terran player was hyped as much as flash without delivering anything much? Can you tell me why all lists that TL releases are heavily terran biased? Can you name a list that is biased towards one of the two other races in the same obvious way? Can you tell me why everyone on TL is always pointing out Oplord + Winfestor era and diminish accomplishments made by non terrans (or in this case zergs) during that time, while noone does the same for GomTvT era, where terran was heavily favoured and MvP made most of his accomplishments? MvP was put best player of all times instead by TL. Why does TL frequently release articles how great of personalities terran players are, while others like SOS are being connoted bad characters, only out for the money, $O$, etc. This list can be endlessly continued. TL is the definition of bias. If it wasn't defined yet, you could point at TL metagame and explain what bias is with that. Not only in the named matters, but as well by handling these. During the time they released 30 pages of pure balance whine in the case of PvZ craft on their main page, they insta-banned people that disposed well constructed posts about racial imbalance in the forums with the reasoning of balance whining. Nowadays I meet not only few people on the battle.net who tell me that they have read my posts and appreciate my analysis on TL and as well others who have turned their back to TL long time ago for similar reasons that I state here. I myself have a hard time to give any credit to TL for parts of their work that is not connected to that e. g. liquipedia, which is usually of good or even great quality. But yeah, for you it is enough to name the list of the last GSL winners, claim they have been shouted out as best players of the world. But this has nothing to do with the meta that is being played here on TL since years in fact. Btw. any educated guy can see why a zerg player like Mizer writes a text about patchzerg GSL Winner at teamliquid. The only reason for that can be that he knows that this is appreciated amongst TL staff and its users. The only reason the same is not happening against terran is that writers know it is not appreciated by long term staff members and users. This evidence is axiomatic. Open your eyes. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On August 07 2018 19:41 Ej_ wrote: Mvp did 11/11 Wake up sheeple | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
Also $O$ is because he came up clutch to win big tournaments only. Nothing to do with being only about the money lol. I can see why you get praised by random people for your analysis though. Top tier. | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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DSK
England1110 Posts
On July 09 2018 23:19 DSK wrote: Have to say even I balked at a few of these rankings. Hopefully Serral can put up a good showing in Korean allowed tournies later in the calendar to justify the fever when it's mentioned that it wouldn't be significant if he won another WCS title. This guy talks a lot of shite. Please ban him for this sacrilegious post. All hail the our new Finnish overlord. | ||
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
On August 07 2018 18:01 LSN wrote: Of course noone ever talked here about best player in the world until maru started to dominate. While I am not saying he is not the the best player in the world, I am pointing out that best player of the world is only ever an issue while terrans dominate. While others dominate it is due to circumstances, excuses of any kind, accusations. The last time best player of the world (before maru) was a thing to talk about was obviously innovation. Before it were Taeja, innovation, MvP. Uhm, what? Zest was called the best in the world for being fucking dominant in 2014, so was soO for making 4 GSL finals in a row, so was Life for being the beast he was, so was Nestea for being "The creator of the universe", so were Seed and later Dear for peaking hard for a half year, so was SoS for being an allkill-monster in Proleague and winning WCS twice. | ||
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