Welcome to another edition of the TeamLiquid.net Power Rank! The Power Rank comes in a week late this month, which might make some of the rankings seem a bit... questionable given the first week of Code S results. No matter! Being pilloried by the community is basically customary at this point. Anyway, here's our usual summary of the Power Rank criteria:
Results up to June 31st were taken into consideration.
The Power Rank is an aggregate, average ranking of separate lists submitted by individual members of the TeamLiquid.net writing staff.
Criteria considered include, but are not limited to: Tournament placements, overall record, quality of opponents faced, quality of play.
Recent results are weighted more heavily, but players may receive benefit of the doubt for consistent performances in the past.
INnoVation: INnoVation did what he was expected to do at HomeStory Cup. Good for him! We're still waiting for him to look like his old self in the GSL.
Stats: Stats didn't have any meaningful opportunities to redeem himself after his GSL RO16 exit last season. So for now, the world's most consistent player is stuck in CBNC purgatory for yet another month. We won't make too much of his decent online results (yet), given that Stats' online form and GSL form have had no connection whatsoever this year.
ByuN: ByuN was awoken from his dream-like Code S quarterfinal run with a brutal 0-3 loss to Classic. Where does the fan-favorite go from here? He qualified for Code S again by beating only foreigners, but lost to the only two Koreans he ran into (Stats and SuperNoVa). Not a great sign.
sOs: It came down to sOs or Dear for the #10 spot with Dear winning in a narrow tiebreak. In hindsight, this isn't looking like so great a choice. Anyway, take a shot each time we remind you that these rankings were compiled before the start of GSL Season 3.
The rising star of our last power ranking, Dear did little to justify our faith in him over the last thirty odd days. Having made the quarterfinals of GSL after a dominating Round of 16 performance where he defeated ZvP killers soO and Rogue, Dear was summarily swept by Zest. That was all part of a relatively quiet June in which Dear went 5-4 in matches. If losing in such embarrassing fashion was a clear indication that Dear's Ro16 performance was a flicker of inexplicable brilliance, then going 10-6 in games during the GSL Season 3 qualifiers (against the likes of RazerBlader, Prince, KeeN and Rushcrazy), was an even more alarming sign of his precipitous decline.
This months’ rankings were compiled before GSL Season 3 kicked off, but had Group B been taken into account it’s a certainty that Dear and sOs would have swapped places. Dear currently sits ninth on the WCS points leaderboard, but having been eliminated from the last GSL of the year, he’ll need a tremendous performance at the second Super Tournament if he wants a shot at making BlizzCon.
Trap comes in at number nine for the fourth straight month. There's no more appropriate spot for a player who came within a single match of advancing to the quarterfinals in both Code S seasons this year (he lost to Stats and TY in decider matches). He's exactly good enough to be the ninth place player in the GSL.
Following his elimination from GSL, Trap put up a respectable 13-6 match record in assorted competition, beating the likes of Dark and GuMiho while also losing to Cure twice over the same period. We shouldn't read too deeply into such results, but they do seem to confirm Trap's ongoing 2018 narrative: He can win a BO3 against any of the top eight players in the GSL, but he can't win the two BO3's that matter on RO16 match day.
Trap's next challenge is getting out of a GSL RO32 group containing TY, RagnaroK, and Bunny. It's a deceptively tough group, but we get the feeling that Trap will advance and secure his #9 spot for a fifth consecutive month.
Perennial title contender Dark tumbled down the rankings last month after suffering the ignominy of RO16 elimination in GSL Code S (losses to Trap and Classic). However, anyone is capable of the occasional misstep—even Maru lost to Classic in the Super Tournament—and we're willing to extend Dark a ton of credit for his overall form in 2018. While Dark has been inconsistent in big matches, his peak-level Zerg play has been topped only by Rogue so far. Remember, it wasn't too long ago that Dark was being held up as the one shining beacon of hope against the Zerg-butcher Maru.
[On a barely related note, Dark lost to Impact three times in the previous month, while he put up an otherwise excellent 24-5 match record against all other players. What does this mean for Dark? Absolutely nothing. However, we just really wanted to point out that Impact continues to be a bizarre, incomprehensible, online-only god.]
GuMiho retains his place in the top 10 after a largely successful month in which the towel terran posted a 27-8 record in matches. It’s an impressive resume, though not the one by which we will remember GuMiho’s June. After topping his Round of 16 group by defeating ByuN and sOs, GuMiho was ejected from Code S by TY in a tightly contested five game series. A quarterfinal exit can’t be what GuMiho was looking for, especially since his play was only just rounding into form after a slow start to 2018, but it moved him into 13th place in the WCS rankings, within striking distance of a second consecutive BlizzCon appearance. He’ll need a deep run in GSL to reach that stage, however. His performance in his upcoming GSL group will go a long way to determining if that’s a realistic aspiration as well as dictating where he will lie in next month’s power ranking.
Serral continues his climb through our power rankings despite not having played a single game against a Korean in over a month. Wins over Namshar, Lambo and souL are nice, but Serral has a reached a point in the rankings where trouncing foreigners won’t move him up any further. He’s already proven many times over that he is the best foreigner in the world, and has displayed what is quite possibly the best form a foreigner has ever achieved. Winning another WCS Circuit event would be nice, but it wouldn’t shoot him past names like Classic, Maru or Rogue.
The true tests will come in the coming months at GSL vs the World and BlizzCon. After starting off IEM Katowice with wins over Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap, Serral is 1-4 against Koreans since March 4th, a mark which stands in stark contrast to his otherworldly dominance in WCS events. Serral will have to elevate his game to another level if he wants climb into the tier of the true elites.
TY is still here! It may seem inexplicable, but losing to Zest in the GSL semifinals did not strike TY from our top 10 list. There’s a case that losses to Hurricane and herO in online tournaments could have done the deed, but a positive performance against GuMiho and a respectable effort in the aforementioned offline semifinal saves TY’s skin for now.
TY only played 19 games in June, a fact which will probably frustrates his fans to no end while making him incredibly difficult to rank for our purposes. Weighting performances is more important than ever as the writing staff tries to figure how much going 1-2 against Hurricane and herO in online competition compares to a Round of 4 appearance in GSL. There’s no doubt that TY will continue this maddening habit in July, leaving fans and critics alike little hope of figuring out what form he’s in.
Zest may have managed a second place finish in the last season of GSL, but he’ll have to settle for fourth in the clearly more enlightened Team Liquid power rank. Whether this is an indictment of him, the level of his competition, or the sanctity of GSL, we’re unsure, but it’s quite possible that Zest is not as good as his finals appearance would lead us to believe. After all, he barely survived a sloppy series against TY before being butchered in the finals by Maru. He then flew out to HomeStory Cup, where losses to Lambo, Stephano, and Solar meant he finished in 5/6 place.
While Zest’s play against Protoss and Terran carried him to the GSL Finals, his PvZ remains a glaring issue. He was 4-7 in June (and the first of July) against Zerg, though two of those wins came over RiSky and EonBlue.
Making the GSL finals has all but guaranteed him a spot at the WCS World Championships, but an early exit in Season 3 would do little to inspire confidence that he can make a deep run in the year end event.
Season 2 of GSL came to an unceremonious end for Classic in a 1-4 loss to Maru. He was spectacular during the run up, reminding us time and again why he’s been regarded so highly in 2018. But in the end, it was an inexplicably poor performance—something which is becoming alarmingly common—that brought his tournament to an end.
Classic has gone 45-9 in matches since the beginning of the year, beating all the top players while vaulting himself to second on the WCS points rankings. Many of those nine losses are rather puzzling though given the fact that Classic entered nearly all of them as the heavy favorite. Classic ran roughshod over the field at Katowice, but was swept off the finals stage by Rogue. He was the best Protoss in the world when he met Stats in GSL Season 1, but he stumbled there as well. He crumbled to Dark twice: once at WESG and once in the Super Tournament (after giving Maru his only series defeat of the last three months). Losing to Maru in the Season 2 semifinals is merely a continuation of a pattern which gives credence to the theory that even with his exceptional record, Classic isn't championship material.
Now that GSL is over for Classic, he’ll have three more tournaments to buck the trend in the coming months. Converting form into titles is always the goal, but Classic, who was the second best player of the first half of 2018, still has a ways to go if he wants to do just that.
In a testament to just how dominant Maru has been over the past few months, Rogue advances one spot in the power rank by losing a closely contested match to Maru in the GSL quarterfinals. It's reminiscent of TeamLiquid.net power ranks in 2010, where players got credit for not getting totally embarrassed by Flash.
Maru's merciless maulings of Classic and Zest on his way to the Code S title left many fans believing his five-game series against Rogue was the true championship match of the tournament. Rogue fans will be quick to remind you that Rogue actually beat Maru in the late-game—which had previously been thought of as impossible—while Maru took his wins with early-to-mid-game aggression. Given Classic and Zest's PvZ performances in recent weeks, it's all too easy to envision Rogue administering similar beatdowns on his way to the title.
Outside of his spectacular series against Maru, Rogue was typically lackadaisical in June, putting up a pedestrian 16-9 series record. At this point, we just have to accept that from Rogue. He'll get upset by Scarlett in the GSL RO32. He'll lose to Neeb in the Hangzhou StarCraft Carnival. Rogue just doesn't seem interested in being the most dominant player. He's here to hunt the biggest paydays, only bringing his best when the stakes are at their absolute highest.
June was another banner month for Maru, who solidified his hold on the number one spot by winning a second consecutive GSL Code S. Doubts were plentiful heading into his semifinal against Classic, but Maru dispelled all concerns before making Zest look like a North American GM on the world’s biggest stage.
Maru is fast entering historic territory. He just became the second player to win consecutive Code S titles and a third doesn’t look so far-fetched. He’s poised to be the second player to make all three GSL finals in a calendar year since the tournament switched to the three season format, though three wins would far outclass soO’s previously unmatched 2014. Such a feat might seem impossible, but Maru’s 35-7 record since the start of GSL Season 1 indicates that such a reality rests in Maru’s hands alone. He’s beaten every elite player in the world and posts an absurd series 22-1 record since IEM Katowice wrapped up. At this point there’s no doubt that Maru is the best player in the world. The only question is for how long he can keep it up.
It's a bit bemusing to see Zest as high as fourth place. Beating Dear, cheesing out TY, and then losing a bunch after that equals going up six places from last month?
Maru is approaching IMMvp levels of dominance IF he can keep this form up and that is frightening considering that the level of play in the game right now is undoubtedly the highest it's ever been.
Maru has gotten to a point where I am audibly applauding Leenock for even taking a single game off of him, his TvZ has looked especially unbeatable lately which is terrifying considering that in the last two rounds of Season 2 he went 8-1 against Classic and Zest.
Maru might actually be doing it, he might actually be on the road to unseating the King of Wings. It's amazing to even consider.
On July 09 2018 09:32 ZigguratOfUr wrote: It's a bit bemusing to see Zest as high as fourth place. Beating Dear, cheesing out TY, and then losing a bunch after that equals going up six places from last month?
I'm more impressed with Classic staying #3. Since the last power rank all he has done is beat Byun. Then proceed to lose to Maru, Reynor and sOs.
On July 09 2018 09:32 ZigguratOfUr wrote: It's a bit bemusing to see Zest as high as fourth place. Beating Dear, cheesing out TY, and then losing a bunch after that equals going up six places from last month?
I'm more impressed with Classic staying #3. Since the last power rank all he has done is beat Byun. Then proceed to lose to Maru, Reynor and sOs.
Losing to Reynor and sOs came after the power rank was established. The only games he played in June and that were considered for this list were beating ByuN and losing to Maru, so it makes sense that his rank stayed the same.
On July 09 2018 12:43 Decado1 wrote: Serral on this list is hilarious, but it wouldn't be TL without some wacky power rankings, now would it? (EG-TL the monster and all that jazz)
I hope Serral isn't too scared for GSL vs the World, then we will see him whoop noobs lower on this list than him
I don't think putting Serral up here is ridiculous at all and I think that for one very specific reason. We have foreigners qualifying for GSL Code S consistently for the first time in the game's history, and some like Reynor and Scarlett are actually making waves in it.
And yet Serral is as dominant if not more so in the foreign scene as Maru is in the Korean scene. So the question has to be asked, what would happen if he took GSL as seriously as he took WCS?
If Serral is that much better than anyone else in the foreign scene the way he has looked, and the top foreigners are creeping up on Code S caliber then where does Serral actually lie?
It's fun to think about. I look forward to seeing what he does at GSL vs World and Blizzcon.
Great power ranking, great write up. As others have said, I think Serral's position is justifiable, especially considering how Reynor just smashed his group (although that wouldn't have been taken into account). Looking forward to Leenock and Reynor making next months cut, and as a Maru fan-boy (he's the only sc2 player I can truly claim to have ever been a fan of), I'm excited to see him win his third finals this season and ascend to Flash levels of dominance.
On July 09 2018 12:43 Decado1 wrote: Serral on this list is hilarious, but it wouldn't be TL without some wacky power rankings, now would it? (EG-TL the monster and all that jazz)
I hope Serral isn't too scared for GSL vs the World, then we will see him whoop noobs lower on this list than him
I don't think putting Serral up here is ridiculous at all and I think that for one very specific reason. We have foreigners qualifying for GSL Code S consistently for the first time in the game's history, and some like Reynor and Scarlett are actually making waves in it.
And yet Serral is as dominant if not more so in the foreign scene as Maru is in the Korean scene. So the question has to be asked, what would happen if he took GSL as seriously as he took WCS?
If Serral is that much better than anyone else in the foreign scene the way he has looked, and the top foreigners are creeping up on Code S caliber then where does Serral actually lie?
It's fun to think about. I look forward to seeing what he does at GSL vs World and Blizzcon.
People said the same thing about Neeb in 2016 and 2017. When it came time to show up, he got destroyed in both WCS Global Finals. Has a foreigner ever won the Global Finals? Nope. Neeb used to look incredible vs foreigners and win all the foreigner WCS too... Before that it was Stephano, and Lilbow, and Lucifron, and Idra, and.... you get the point.
It's just sad people stay in denial and these power "rankings" show it. Serral's chance to win the Global Finals is 0%. No reason to hype him up so much when you know the truth. If he wins a single tournament of note (one in which Koreans aren't banned) I'll raise an eyebrow, but seeing as Classic schooled him in IEM and WESCG, I don't think that will ever happen.
On July 09 2018 12:43 Decado1 wrote: Serral on this list is hilarious, but it wouldn't be TL without some wacky power rankings, now would it? (EG-TL the monster and all that jazz)
I hope Serral isn't too scared for GSL vs the World, then we will see him whoop noobs lower on this list than him
I don't think putting Serral up here is ridiculous at all and I think that for one very specific reason. We have foreigners qualifying for GSL Code S consistently for the first time in the game's history, and some like Reynor and Scarlett are actually making waves in it.
And yet Serral is as dominant if not more so in the foreign scene as Maru is in the Korean scene. So the question has to be asked, what would happen if he took GSL as seriously as he took WCS?
If Serral is that much better than anyone else in the foreign scene the way he has looked, and the top foreigners are creeping up on Code S caliber then where does Serral actually lie?
It's fun to think about. I look forward to seeing what he does at GSL vs World and Blizzcon.
People said the same thing about Neeb in 2016 and 2017. When it came time to show up, he got destroyed in both WCS Global Finals. Has a foreigner ever won the Global Finals? Nope. Neeb used to look incredible vs foreigners and win all the foreigner WCS too... Before that it was Stephano, and Lilbow, and Lucifron, and Idra, and.... you get the point.
It's just sad people stay in denial and these power "rankings" show it. Serral's chance to win the Global Finals is 0%. No reason to hype him up so much when you know the truth. If he wins a single tournament of note (one in which Koreans aren't banned) I'll raise an eyebrow, but seeing as Classic schooled him in IEM and WESCG, I don't think that will ever happen.
I know what you're saying, but believe me if you actually watch Serral play you'll understand something. He's for real. Neeb outside of PvP never looked for real, he was winning but his level of play was never consistently amazing to the point where you thought "he's actually legit" or at least never looked that way to me.
Serral is for real, and thus far he HAS put up respectable performances when he's gone against Koreans in the past and this year he looks even better than he did last year.
Is he is as good as Maru? No way. Do I think he can reasonably compete with most of the GSL Code S roster? Yea I do.
He isn't gonna win a global final I dont think, but number 6 on this power ranking doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.
On July 09 2018 12:43 Decado1 wrote: Serral on this list is hilarious, but it wouldn't be TL without some wacky power rankings, now would it? (EG-TL the monster and all that jazz)
I hope Serral isn't too scared for GSL vs the World, then we will see him whoop noobs lower on this list than him
I don't think putting Serral up here is ridiculous at all and I think that for one very specific reason. We have foreigners qualifying for GSL Code S consistently for the first time in the game's history, and some like Reynor and Scarlett are actually making waves in it.
And yet Serral is as dominant if not more so in the foreign scene as Maru is in the Korean scene. So the question has to be asked, what would happen if he took GSL as seriously as he took WCS?
If Serral is that much better than anyone else in the foreign scene the way he has looked, and the top foreigners are creeping up on Code S caliber then where does Serral actually lie?
It's fun to think about. I look forward to seeing what he does at GSL vs World and Blizzcon.
People said the same thing about Neeb in 2016 and 2017. When it came time to show up, he got destroyed in both WCS Global Finals. Has a foreigner ever won the Global Finals? Nope. Neeb used to look incredible vs foreigners and win all the foreigner WCS too... Before that it was Stephano, and Lilbow, and Lucifron, and Idra, and.... you get the point.
It's just sad people stay in denial and these power "rankings" show it. Serral's chance to win the Global Finals is 0%. No reason to hype him up so much when you know the truth. If he wins a single tournament of note (one in which Koreans aren't banned) I'll raise an eyebrow, but seeing as Classic schooled him in IEM and WESCG, I don't think that will ever happen.
I know what you're saying, but believe me if you actually watch Serral play you'll understand something. He's for real. Neeb outside of PvP never looked for real, he was winning but his level of play was never consistently amazing to the point where you thought "he's actually legit" or at least never looked that way to me.
Serral is for real, and thus far he HAS put up respectable performances when he's gone against Koreans in the past and this year he looks even better than he did last year.
Is he is as good as Maru? No way. Do I think he can reasonably compete with most of the GSL Code S roster? Yea I do.
He isn't gonna win a global final I dont think, but number 6 on this power ranking doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.
Exactly. Scarlett made a round of 8 and got destroyed. But given his form, Serral making a ro8 and being competitive wouldn't be surprising.
On July 09 2018 12:43 Decado1 wrote: Serral on this list is hilarious, but it wouldn't be TL without some wacky power rankings, now would it? (EG-TL the monster and all that jazz)
I hope Serral isn't too scared for GSL vs the World, then we will see him whoop noobs lower on this list than him
I don't think putting Serral up here is ridiculous at all and I think that for one very specific reason. We have foreigners qualifying for GSL Code S consistently for the first time in the game's history, and some like Reynor and Scarlett are actually making waves in it.
And yet Serral is as dominant if not more so in the foreign scene as Maru is in the Korean scene. So the question has to be asked, what would happen if he took GSL as seriously as he took WCS?
If Serral is that much better than anyone else in the foreign scene the way he has looked, and the top foreigners are creeping up on Code S caliber then where does Serral actually lie?
It's fun to think about. I look forward to seeing what he does at GSL vs World and Blizzcon.
People said the same thing about Neeb in 2016 and 2017. When it came time to show up, he got destroyed in both WCS Global Finals. Has a foreigner ever won the Global Finals? Nope. Neeb used to look incredible vs foreigners and win all the foreigner WCS too... Before that it was Stephano, and Lilbow, and Lucifron, and Idra, and.... you get the point.
It's just sad people stay in denial and these power "rankings" show it. Serral's chance to win the Global Finals is 0%. No reason to hype him up so much when you know the truth. If he wins a single tournament of note (one in which Koreans aren't banned) I'll raise an eyebrow, but seeing as Classic schooled him in IEM and WESCG, I don't think that will ever happen.
I know what you're saying, but believe me if you actually watch Serral play you'll understand something. He's for real. Neeb outside of PvP never looked for real, he was winning but his level of play was never consistently amazing to the point where you thought "he's actually legit" or at least never looked that way to me.
Serral is for real, and thus far he HAS put up respectable performances when he's gone against Koreans in the past and this year he looks even better than he did last year.
Is he is as good as Maru? No way. Do I think he can reasonably compete with most of the GSL Code S roster? Yea I do.
He isn't gonna win a global final I dont think, but number 6 on this power ranking doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.
Exactly. Scarlett made a round of 8 and got destroyed. But given his form, Serral making a ro8 and being competitive wouldn't be surprising.
Serral has a decent shot at beating any Protoss or Zerg in the world--his ZvT is quite far behind his other match-ups though and it'll stay that way unless he goes to Korea.
On July 09 2018 12:43 Decado1 wrote: Serral on this list is hilarious, but it wouldn't be TL without some wacky power rankings, now would it? (EG-TL the monster and all that jazz)
I hope Serral isn't too scared for GSL vs the World, then we will see him whoop noobs lower on this list than him
I don't think putting Serral up here is ridiculous at all and I think that for one very specific reason. We have foreigners qualifying for GSL Code S consistently for the first time in the game's history, and some like Reynor and Scarlett are actually making waves in it.
And yet Serral is as dominant if not more so in the foreign scene as Maru is in the Korean scene. So the question has to be asked, what would happen if he took GSL as seriously as he took WCS?
If Serral is that much better than anyone else in the foreign scene the way he has looked, and the top foreigners are creeping up on Code S caliber then where does Serral actually lie?
It's fun to think about. I look forward to seeing what he does at GSL vs World and Blizzcon.
People said the same thing about Neeb in 2016 and 2017. When it came time to show up, he got destroyed in both WCS Global Finals. Has a foreigner ever won the Global Finals? Nope. Neeb used to look incredible vs foreigners and win all the foreigner WCS too... Before that it was Stephano, and Lilbow, and Lucifron, and Idra, and.... you get the point.
It's just sad people stay in denial and these power "rankings" show it. Serral's chance to win the Global Finals is 0%. No reason to hype him up so much when you know the truth. If he wins a single tournament of note (one in which Koreans aren't banned) I'll raise an eyebrow, but seeing as Classic schooled him in IEM and WESCG, I don't think that will ever happen.
I know what you're saying, but believe me if you actually watch Serral play you'll understand something. He's for real. Neeb outside of PvP never looked for real, he was winning but his level of play was never consistently amazing to the point where you thought "he's actually legit" or at least never looked that way to me.
Serral is for real, and thus far he HAS put up respectable performances when he's gone against Koreans in the past and this year he looks even better than he did last year.
Is he is as good as Maru? No way. Do I think he can reasonably compete with most of the GSL Code S roster? Yea I do.
He isn't gonna win a global final I dont think, but number 6 on this power ranking doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.
Exactly. Scarlett made a round of 8 and got destroyed. But given his form, Serral making a ro8 and being competitive wouldn't be surprising.
The problem I have with putting serral where he is, isn't about whether or not serral might make it into ro16 or ro8 or beat any korean. The problem is when you put him at #6, you're effectively saying that he has a better chance than #7-10 and innovation and soo, and all the other koreans that didn't make the list, and I don't think any sane person who's been following the scene can say with a straight face that they would give serral better chances than innovation or soo or any number of the koreans he's ranked above.
On July 09 2018 12:43 Decado1 wrote: Serral on this list is hilarious, but it wouldn't be TL without some wacky power rankings, now would it? (EG-TL the monster and all that jazz)
I hope Serral isn't too scared for GSL vs the World, then we will see him whoop noobs lower on this list than him
I don't think putting Serral up here is ridiculous at all and I think that for one very specific reason. We have foreigners qualifying for GSL Code S consistently for the first time in the game's history, and some like Reynor and Scarlett are actually making waves in it.
And yet Serral is as dominant if not more so in the foreign scene as Maru is in the Korean scene. So the question has to be asked, what would happen if he took GSL as seriously as he took WCS?
If Serral is that much better than anyone else in the foreign scene the way he has looked, and the top foreigners are creeping up on Code S caliber then where does Serral actually lie?
It's fun to think about. I look forward to seeing what he does at GSL vs World and Blizzcon.
People said the same thing about Neeb in 2016 and 2017. When it came time to show up, he got destroyed in both WCS Global Finals. Has a foreigner ever won the Global Finals? Nope. Neeb used to look incredible vs foreigners and win all the foreigner WCS too... Before that it was Stephano, and Lilbow, and Lucifron, and Idra, and.... you get the point.
It's just sad people stay in denial and these power "rankings" show it. Serral's chance to win the Global Finals is 0%. No reason to hype him up so much when you know the truth. If he wins a single tournament of note (one in which Koreans aren't banned) I'll raise an eyebrow, but seeing as Classic schooled him in IEM and WESCG, I don't think that will ever happen.
I know what you're saying, but believe me if you actually watch Serral play you'll understand something. He's for real. Neeb outside of PvP never looked for real, he was winning but his level of play was never consistently amazing to the point where you thought "he's actually legit" or at least never looked that way to me.
Serral is for real, and thus far he HAS put up respectable performances when he's gone against Koreans in the past and this year he looks even better than he did last year.
Is he is as good as Maru? No way. Do I think he can reasonably compete with most of the GSL Code S roster? Yea I do.
He isn't gonna win a global final I dont think, but number 6 on this power ranking doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.
Exactly. Scarlett made a round of 8 and got destroyed. But given his form, Serral making a ro8 and being competitive wouldn't be surprising.
The problem I have with putting serral where he is, isn't about whether or not serral might make it into ro16 or ro8 or beat any korean. The problem is when you put him at #6, you're effectively saying that he has a better chance than #7-10 and innovation and soo, and all the other koreans that didn't make the list, and I don't think any sane person who's been following the scene can say with a straight face that they would give serral better chances than innovation or soo or any number of the koreans he's ranked above.
I see where you're coming from and to an extent I agree. It's hard to make a power ranking when the scene is divided. Personally, I think Serral could beat an out of shape Inno, Trap or Dear. But sOs, Dark and Stats? Perhaps, but he's probably not favoured. Perhaps he is too high
No way Serral deserves to be that high up. I could've let it slide last month, but not this time. He's dominating foreigners like a top-tier Zerg would, but it's simply been too long since he's played any Koreans.
Compared to Gumiho for instance who's been a total shark online and only narrowly lost a ro8 match to one of the best TvTs around.
The true test of Serral gonna be WCS finals. Till then we can all speculate and argue, but it is kinda pointless. I dont mind him rated high, he s demolishing the foreigner pro scene, and many of those foregin pros are beating mid level korean pros, so it s not baseless having him rated high, but then again the proof of the pudding is in the eating and all that.
I think it makes sense for him not to attend GSL, winning it would be very very hard, and I would argue that moving to korea would impede his chances of winning the WCS or making it very deep. The prize-pool of WCS is so much bigger than GSL
On July 09 2018 12:43 Decado1 wrote: Serral on this list is hilarious, but it wouldn't be TL without some wacky power rankings, now would it? (EG-TL the monster and all that jazz)
I hope Serral isn't too scared for GSL vs the World, then we will see him whoop noobs lower on this list than him
I don't think putting Serral up here is ridiculous at all and I think that for one very specific reason. We have foreigners qualifying for GSL Code S consistently for the first time in the game's history, and some like Reynor and Scarlett are actually making waves in it.
And yet Serral is as dominant if not more so in the foreign scene as Maru is in the Korean scene. So the question has to be asked, what would happen if he took GSL as seriously as he took WCS?
If Serral is that much better than anyone else in the foreign scene the way he has looked, and the top foreigners are creeping up on Code S caliber then where does Serral actually lie?
It's fun to think about. I look forward to seeing what he does at GSL vs World and Blizzcon.
People said the same thing about Neeb in 2016 and 2017. When it came time to show up, he got destroyed in both WCS Global Finals. Has a foreigner ever won the Global Finals? Nope. Neeb used to look incredible vs foreigners and win all the foreigner WCS too... Before that it was Stephano, and Lilbow, and Lucifron, and Idra, and.... you get the point.
It's just sad people stay in denial and these power "rankings" show it. Serral's chance to win the Global Finals is 0%. No reason to hype him up so much when you know the truth. If he wins a single tournament of note (one in which Koreans aren't banned) I'll raise an eyebrow, but seeing as Classic schooled him in IEM and WESCG, I don't think that will ever happen.
I know what you're saying, but believe me if you actually watch Serral play you'll understand something. He's for real. Neeb outside of PvP never looked for real, he was winning but his level of play was never consistently amazing to the point where you thought "he's actually legit" or at least never looked that way to me.
Serral is for real, and thus far he HAS put up respectable performances when he's gone against Koreans in the past and this year he looks even better than he did last year.
Is he is as good as Maru? No way. Do I think he can reasonably compete with most of the GSL Code S roster? Yea I do.
He isn't gonna win a global final I dont think, but number 6 on this power ranking doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.
I just think it's a bit ridicolous that someone like Dark gets degraded to rank 8 because of one bad performance despite having otherwise really good results and for Serral winning foreigner events is enough to put him higher than that. I'd say Serral is definitely top 10 but #6 is to high for someone who hasn't proved himself against koreans. No way he deserves to be ranked above Dark or Stats. Stats falling out of the power rank completely because of his 1 ro16 exit is crazy too but I mentioned that already in the previous PR.
Where is Solar? I can never get excited by Dear's play no matter how much people hype him, he just doesn't have the micro necessary to be the top Protoss. I think sOs becomes the best Protoss whenever he deems it worthy and that should be about now, he looked pretty good in his group. ByuN is also not in a slump anymore. #1 Rogue #2 Maru #3 sOs #4-10 Solar+SoO+herO+Kr Terrans
On July 09 2018 16:53 ejozl wrote: Where is Solar? I can never get excited by Dear's play no matter how much people hype him, he just doesn't have the micro necessary to be the top Protoss. I think sOs becomes the best Protoss whenever he deems it worthy and that should be about now, he looked pretty good in his group. ByuN is also not in a slump anymore. #1 Rogue #2 Maru #3 sOs #4-10 Solar+SoO+herO+Kr Terrans
Ah so he just hasn't deemed it worth his time for over 2 years, I was wondering what was going on with sOs.
Must be pretty easy to lose your power ranking if you have Dear, Trap and Serral on here and not soO and Stats lol. And Zest is easily like 7th, he only beat Dear (who came 2nd in Maru's group - i.e. the easy group) and TY who threw 2 games away with hellion openings and even then only barely (then got 4-0'd as expected).
I also definitely think Solar should be on the list.
Serral is in a weird spot, because yes it's justifiable to put him in the list because he's been winning all of the foreign tournaments, but placing him at 6? Not so sure if I agree with that, although I agree that it is difficult to cement a ranking for a player from an entirely different region. Otherwise, a great list!
Brave to list Serral as high as #6. I would have agreed if he didn't dodge Homestory Cup and performed well there. I hope we can see more games against Koreans sometime soon, as he is (or was? haven't seen him in a while) the best foreigner by far.
How does Serral go up in rank after not playing any relevent matches for a month?
Putting him over Gumiho, Dark, INno, sOs, or soO is to say that, if he was in GSL, he'd have a better chance at winning than those guys. Which I don't think most people would agree with.
On July 09 2018 09:10 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:Rogue fans will be quick to remind you that Rogue actually beat Maru in the late-game—which had previously been thought of as impossible
Since the raven nerf I don't think anyone has believed that to be impossible. From what I've seen most terrans (including Maru) have been going for exclusively marine aggression instead of playing for the lategame of raven-ghost, the reason being that Zergs are winning that now.
I like how serral keeps going up every month and every month the writers commentate that at this point he can't go up any further without playing koreans.
Also funny, how Innovation winning HSC against tough korean competition means "he did what we expected, not enough to put him on the list", but serral winning wcs challenger raises him from 7 to 6.
On July 09 2018 19:44 MockHamill wrote: I think Serral should be #2. Except for Maru I see no Koreans that are better than Serral.
I'm honestly not sure if this is a parody account anymore.
Well think about it logically. Reynor crushed Classic. Serral is much better than Reynor. Classic is number 3 on the list. Maru is better than Serral. Thus Serral should be in the #2 spot.
Can understand people viewing Serral being a bit too high, after rising a couple of spots recently simply by dominating foreigners, and while looking at the quality of a couple of the players below him.
On July 09 2018 19:44 MockHamill wrote: I think Serral should be #2. Except for Maru I see no Koreans that are better than Serral.
I'm honestly not sure if this is a parody account anymore.
Well think about it logically. Reynor crushed Classic. Serral is much better than Reynor. Classic is number 3 on the list. Maru is better than Serral. Thus Serral should be in the #2 spot.
On July 09 2018 19:44 MockHamill wrote: I think Serral should be #2. Except for Maru I see no Koreans that are better than Serral.
I'm honestly not sure if this is a parody account anymore.
Well think about it logically. Reynor crushed Classic. Serral is much better than Reynor. Classic is number 3 on the list. Maru is better than Serral. Thus Serral should be in the #2 spot.
Holy shit you're a genius. TL writers are a joke for not putting Bunny at #2 :O
On July 09 2018 19:44 MockHamill wrote: I think Serral should be #2. Except for Maru I see no Koreans that are better than Serral.
I'm honestly not sure if this is a parody account anymore.
Well think about it logically. Reynor crushed Classic. Serral is much better than Reynor. Classic is number 3 on the list. Maru is better than Serral. Thus Serral should be in the #2 spot.
I know this example is a joke, but people using one game/match/result to rate a player is something that never made sense to me. It's usually foreigners or players considered underdogs, they get rated by their best ever performance even if they do worse 95% of the time.
On July 09 2018 20:15 StarscreamG1 wrote: This is probably the worst TL rank ever. Sorry about the harsh words...but normally I love the TL Power Rank.
On July 09 2018 20:33 Kikirik1 wrote: Inovation no in is just a joke, after he win last HSC with alot of high level participants.What Dear win lately?
The last day of HSC where Inno had his only actually impressive showings wasn't in June. In the part of HSC that counts for this PR he lost to Snute, PartinG and Solar.
It's just sad people stay in denial and these power "rankings" show it. Serral's chance to win the Global Finals is 0%. No reason to hype him up so much when you know the truth. If he wins a single tournament of note (one in which Koreans aren't banned) I'll raise an eyebrow, but seeing as Classic schooled him in IEM and WESCG, I don't think that will ever happen.
And you didnt watch WESG's bronze game? Serral beat classic 3-1 in bronze series and took 3rd place, classic 4th.
On July 09 2018 20:33 Kikirik1 wrote: Inovation no in is just a joke, after he win last HSC with alot of high level participants.What Dear win lately?
HSC is a pretty low level of competition to be honest. soO and Zest (and even then Zest didn't look great in that tournament) were his only real competitors and we expect him to beat them.
On July 09 2018 20:33 Kikirik1 wrote: Inovation no in is just a joke, after he win last HSC with alot of high level participants.What Dear win lately?
HSC is a pretty low level of competition to be honest. soO and Zest (and even then Zest didn't look great in that tournament) were his only real competitors and we expect him to beat them.
Reminder there was a man named Solar at HSC who went 5-3 in maps vs Inno.
On July 09 2018 19:44 MockHamill wrote: I think Serral should be #2. Except for Maru I see no Koreans that are better than Serral.
I'm honestly not sure if this is a parody account anymore.
Well think about it logically. Reynor crushed Classic. Serral is much better than Reynor. Classic is number 3 on the list. Maru is better than Serral. Thus Serral should be in the #2 spot.
Reynor completely crushed Classic by going 2-2 against him.
On July 09 2018 20:33 Kikirik1 wrote: Inovation no in is just a joke, after he win last HSC with alot of high level participants.What Dear win lately?
HSC is a pretty low level of competition to be honest. soO and Zest (and even then Zest didn't look great in that tournament) were his only real competitors and we expect him to beat them.
And still it has a higher level of competition than WCS which got Serral at #6.
On July 09 2018 20:33 Kikirik1 wrote: Inovation no in is just a joke, after he win last HSC with alot of high level participants.What Dear win lately?
HSC is a pretty low level of competition to be honest. soO and Zest (and even then Zest didn't look great in that tournament) were his only real competitors and we expect him to beat them.
You really thing they all look great when playing in GSL?Many top names got kicked in some weird way, no one is consistent forever, even Stats.
Have to say even I balked at a few of these rankings. Hopefully Serral can put up a good showing in Korean allowed tournies later in the calendar to justify the fever when it's mentioned that it wouldn't be significant if he won another WCS title.
On July 09 2018 20:33 Kikirik1 wrote: Inovation no in is just a joke, after he win last HSC with alot of high level participants.What Dear win lately?
HSC is a pretty low level of competition to be honest. soO and Zest (and even then Zest didn't look great in that tournament) were his only real competitors and we expect him to beat them.
And still it has a higher level of competition than WCS which got Serral at #6.
Serral was #7 when he won WCS, him going up to #6 is from playing no relevant matches at all. Even since Katowice he's managed to go up rank every month without playing any koreans.
On July 09 2018 19:44 MockHamill wrote: I think Serral should be #2. Except for Maru I see no Koreans that are better than Serral.
I'm honestly not sure if this is a parody account anymore.
Well think about it logically. Reynor crushed Classic. Serral is much better than Reynor. Classic is number 3 on the list. Maru is better than Serral. Thus Serral should be in the #2 spot.
Reynor completely crushed Classic by going 2-2 against him.
4-3. Reynor beat Classsic again online a day later.
On July 09 2018 20:33 Kikirik1 wrote: Inovation no in is just a joke, after he win last HSC with alot of high level participants.What Dear win lately?
HSC is a pretty low level of competition to be honest. soO and Zest (and even then Zest didn't look great in that tournament) were his only real competitors and we expect him to beat them.
And still it has a higher level of competition than WCS which got Serral at #6.
Serral was #7 when he won WCS, him going up to #6 is from playing no relevant matches at all. Even since Katowice he's managed to go up rank every month without playing any koreans.
I honestly think the monthly PR just doesn't work that well due to a lack of progames being played. Should maybe try a different scheduling. That's not even a direct attack at the current ranking (i hardly have any idea how it should look like after the first few places), but just a general thought.
On July 10 2018 00:24 The_Red_Viper wrote: I honestly think the monthly PR just doesn't work that well due to a lack of progames being played. Should maybe try a different scheduling. That's not even a direct attack at the current ranking (i hardly have any idea how it should look like after the first few places), but just a general thought.
Definitely easier with a Proleague going on... but at least personally I enjoy the structure of a monthly rank over "whenever we feel like it." (no more PR's until TaeJa is out of the military and back in the top ten)
On July 10 2018 00:24 The_Red_Viper wrote: I honestly think the monthly PR just doesn't work that well due to a lack of progames being played. Should maybe try a different scheduling. That's not even a direct attack at the current ranking (i hardly have any idea how it should look like after the first few places), but just a general thought.
Definitely easier with a Proleague going on... but at least personally I enjoy the structure of a monthly rank over "whenever we feel like it." (no more PR's until TaeJa is out of the military and back in the top ten)
Well maybe not completely random but every 2-3 months or something similar to have a few more results to back the decisions up. It's not the biggest deal, i enjoy having a ranking every month but for some of the places it feels almost arbitrary due to having so little data.
(Wiki)INnoVation: INnoVation did what he was expected to do at HomeStory Cup. Good for him! We're still waiting for him to look like his old self in the GSL.
Maru is so good it's hard to even understand why he is so good. I think of you look at any other top player they have clear strengths and weeknesses in thee aproach to the game, but Maru he just looks like he has no weekneses. Even when he came is significantly behind in a game he can turn it around with just a few good decisions. Like his failed proxy rax in hos match vs forte. That's the real mind boggling thing about his play even when in situations other Terran players would flat out lose from Maru manges to be ahead of his opponent due to his phenomenal decision making, micro and macro. The guy has no clear flaws.
(Wiki)INnoVation: INnoVation did what he was expected to do at HomeStory Cup. Good for him! We're still waiting for him to look like his old self in the GSL.
(Wiki)soO: Same as above.
Savage :D
Yeah seems overly harsh I think inovation deserves at least a # 10 on this list.
On July 10 2018 05:44 washikie wrote: Maru is so good it's hard to even understand why he is so good. I think of you look at any other top player they have clear strengths and weeknesses in thee aproach to the game, but Maru he just looks like he has no weekneses. Even when he came is significantly behind in a game he can turn it around with just a few good decisions. Like his failed proxy rax in hos match vs forte. That's the real mind boggling thing about his play even when in situations other Terran players would flat out lose from Maru manges to be ahead of his opponent due to his phenomenal decision making, micro and macro. The guy has no clear flaws.
Maru is 3-4 tiers above Forte. He loses from that position against almost every other Terran player in the GSL.
On July 10 2018 00:24 The_Red_Viper wrote: I honestly think the monthly PR just doesn't work that well due to a lack of progames being played. Should maybe try a different scheduling. That's not even a direct attack at the current ranking (i hardly have any idea how it should look like after the first few places), but just a general thought.
Definitely easier with a Proleague going on... but at least personally I enjoy the structure of a monthly rank over "whenever we feel like it." (no more PR's until TaeJa is out of the military and back in the top ten)
One at the start of each major tournament could work. Although personally I think every month is nice even if a lot of these guys might go a month without playing a match.
On July 10 2018 00:24 The_Red_Viper wrote: I honestly think the monthly PR just doesn't work that well due to a lack of progames being played. Should maybe try a different scheduling. That's not even a direct attack at the current ranking (i hardly have any idea how it should look like after the first few places), but just a general thought.
Definitely easier with a Proleague going on... but at least personally I enjoy the structure of a monthly rank over "whenever we feel like it." (no more PR's until TaeJa is out of the military and back in the top ten)
One at the start of each major tournament could work. Although personally I think every month is nice even if a lot of these guys might go a month without playing a match.
It's pretty amazing how much variability there is in # of pro games played. Maru or Classic might play 10 games in a month, whereas GuMiho or Solar might play over a hundred.
On July 09 2018 16:53 ejozl wrote: Where is Solar? I can never get excited by Dear's play no matter how much people hype him, he just doesn't have the micro necessary to be the top Protoss. I think sOs becomes the best Protoss whenever he deems it worthy and that should be about now, he looked pretty good in his group. ByuN is also not in a slump anymore. #1 Rogue #2 Maru #3 sOs #4-10 Solar+SoO+herO+Kr Terrans
How do you rank the guy who loses the bo5 and goes out in the quarter finals higher than the guy who wins back to back titles?
On July 09 2018 16:53 ejozl wrote: Where is Solar? I can never get excited by Dear's play no matter how much people hype him, he just doesn't have the micro necessary to be the top Protoss. I think sOs becomes the best Protoss whenever he deems it worthy and that should be about now, he looked pretty good in his group. ByuN is also not in a slump anymore. #1 Rogue #2 Maru #3 sOs #4-10 Solar+SoO+herO+Kr Terrans
How do you rank the guy who loses the bo5 and goes out in the quarter finals higher than the guy who wins back to back titles?
Cus he also lives in a world where sOs is #3 and is the best protoss whenever he wants to be.
On July 09 2018 16:53 ejozl wrote: Where is Solar? I can never get excited by Dear's play no matter how much people hype him, he just doesn't have the micro necessary to be the top Protoss. I think sOs becomes the best Protoss whenever he deems it worthy and that should be about now, he looked pretty good in his group. ByuN is also not in a slump anymore. #1 Rogue #2 Maru #3 sOs #4-10 Solar+SoO+herO+Kr Terrans
How do you rank the guy who loses the bo5 and goes out in the quarter finals higher than the guy who wins back to back titles?
It's easier than you might think! That guy did it by writing his name and putting "#1" next to it.
The top 3 can't be debated. I guess you could argue Classic > Rogue, but I don't think so. I'd say TY > Zest, and the bottom half of the rankings are hard to decide.
Obviously Serral should not be on this list, but it's fine. Let the Serral fanboys continue to hype him while he runs away from real competition. The WCS Finals get closer every day, and when Serral gets 3-0'd by Rogue I think that will put this nonsense to rest.
This may sound a bit weird, but my power rank would put Rogue at #1 over the very person he lost to. It was one of those rare series where the person who looked stronger in my eyes lost. Maru would still be #2; they're both absolute monsters.
On July 10 2018 13:12 Kitai wrote: This may sound a bit weird, but my power rank would put Rogue at #1 over the very person he lost to. It was one of those rare series where the person who looked stronger in my eyes lost. Maru would still be #2; they're both absolute monsters.
You could argue Maru and Rogue are similar head-to-head, but in terms of results Maru is the clear favourate. He has 3 titles (gsl, gsl, wesg) and a top 4 finish (iem) this year. Rogue has one title and that's it for top finishes.
On July 10 2018 21:29 Fango wrote: You could argue Maru and Rogue are similar head-to-head, but in terms of results [...]
Should results 'per se' affect the power rating? If a player reach the a final without losing a single match but then fails to get the title but another player just barely reach the final and get the title, who is stronger?
I'm not saying this is the case with maru and rogue, I'm just asking a, personally, rethorical question.
On July 11 2018 02:51 Soularion wrote: The Serral hate in this thread makes me very disappointed.
Ya'll need Finnish jesus.
I don't think anyone actually hates Serral, but it does seem a bit (very) far fetched to put him as the #6 best player in the world. Especially because he's managing to climb the ranks without playing any relevent matches.
Do people honestly put him above Dark, Stats, soO, INno, or Gumiho to win a global tournament right now?
On July 11 2018 02:51 Soularion wrote: The Serral hate in this thread makes me very disappointed.
Ya'll need Finnish jesus.
I don't think anyone actually hates Serral, but it does seem a bit (very) far fetched to put him as the #6 best player in the world. Especially because he's managing to climb the ranks without playing any relevent matches.
Do people honestly put him above Dark, Stats, soO, INno, or Gumiho to win a global tournament right now?
Above soO to win a global tournament? Yeah probably actually, my faith in the greatest of the Kongs is unshakeable.
On July 09 2018 20:15 StarscreamG1 wrote: This is probably the worst TL rank ever. Sorry about the harsh words...but normally I love the TL Power Rank.
They once put EG-TL as #1 in the Proleague PR.
One time FakeSteve put Sea at #1 PR in BW. If I remember correctly, it was because he met with TL people at some event in France and he also made a TL account and said hi or something.
These lists just rile people up and have some heart picks instead of actual logical picks.
sorry foreigners should not be ranked high unless they are competing with koreans. being the best foreigner means nothing, do people never learn? this is why the region lock is dumb and you have a foreigner ranked so high. if you put any of those koreans who didn't make the cut, you don't think they would've shown similar foreigner stomping results that serral did?
stephano and naniwa for example, were able to go toe to toe with the best koreans back in the day and still win tournaments. until serral does that he shouldn't be that high
On July 12 2018 04:31 fishjie wrote: sorry foreigners should not be ranked high unless they are competing with koreans. being the best foreigner means nothing, do people never learn? this is why the region lock is dumb and you have a foreigner ranked so high. if you put any of those koreans who didn't make the cut, you don't think they would've shown similar foreigner stomping results that serral did?
stephano and naniwa for example, were able to go toe to toe with the best koreans back in the day and still win tournaments. until serral does that he shouldn't be that high
On July 12 2018 04:31 fishjie wrote: sorry foreigners should not be ranked high unless they are competing with koreans. being the best foreigner means nothing, do people never learn? this is why the region lock is dumb and you have a foreigner ranked so high. if you put any of those koreans who didn't make the cut, you don't think they would've shown similar foreigner stomping results that serral did?
stephano and naniwa for example, were able to go toe to toe with the best koreans back in the day and still win tournaments. until serral does that he shouldn't be that high
They weren't, however, as dominating.
Depends. Stephano in his prime was like 61-2 (one dc iirc) on European ladder in between tournament wins. He was dominating other foreigners as much as Serral but maybe his lifestyle back then didn’t allow for as much consistency as Serral in doing so.
The fact that Neeb is slumping and that terran still can’t be played by Europeans also helps Serral in his domination.
Don't care about the ladder but the only situation when Stephano arrived as hot favorite to sweep tournament and delivered was WCS EU Finals in 2012 - a tournament which was uniquely similar to Serral's WCS given that NA was slumping at the time and Korean's weren't participating.
On July 17 2018 22:19 nimdil wrote: Don't care about the ladder but the only situation when Stephano arrived as hot favorite to sweep tournament and delivered was WCS EU Finals in 2012 - a tournament which was uniquely similar to Serral's WCS given that NA was slumping at the time and Korean's weren't participating.
He came to ESWC 2011 in Paris as a favorite since he'd just won IPL 3 and went on to win it, facing MKP and MaNa.
On July 17 2018 22:19 nimdil wrote: Don't care about the ladder but the only situation when Stephano arrived as hot favorite to sweep tournament and delivered was WCS EU Finals in 2012 - a tournament which was uniquely similar to Serral's WCS given that NA was slumping at the time and Korean's weren't participating.
He came to ESWC 2011 in Paris as a favorite since he'd just won IPL 3 and went on to win it, facing MKP and MaNa.
Yea, and the only players above Grubby line were these 3 and MC.
On July 17 2018 22:19 nimdil wrote: Don't care about the ladder but the only situation when Stephano arrived as hot favorite to sweep tournament and delivered was WCS EU Finals in 2012 - a tournament which was uniquely similar to Serral's WCS given that NA was slumping at the time and Korean's weren't participating.
He came to ESWC 2011 in Paris as a favorite since he'd just won IPL 3 and went on to win it, facing MKP and MaNa.
Yeah, and ladder can be a very good indicator of future performances / domination.
Reynor went up very high on the ladder and he eventually reached the point of beating Classic to qualify into GSL ro16. Serral was a ladder god before dominating everyone. ByuN as well. Bomber and MKP were the scariest bio terrans on ladder. etc. etc.
The fact that Stephano dominated europeans that hard before tournament wins is a good indicator of dominance. See: https://forum.hangarnet.com.br/showthread.php?tid=32749 His run was right before : 2011-10-23 1st Electronic Sports World Cup 2011 3 : 1 MaNa $26,000 2011-10-09 1st IGN ProLeague Season 3 4 : 0 Lucky $30,000
On July 17 2018 22:19 nimdil wrote: Don't care about the ladder but the only situation when Stephano arrived as hot favorite to sweep tournament and delivered was WCS EU Finals in 2012 - a tournament which was uniquely similar to Serral's WCS given that NA was slumping at the time and Korean's weren't participating.
He came to ESWC 2011 in Paris as a favorite since he'd just won IPL 3 and went on to win it, facing MKP and MaNa.
Yea, and the only players above Grubby line were these 3 and MC.
On July 12 2018 04:31 fishjie wrote: sorry foreigners should not be ranked high unless they are competing with koreans. being the best foreigner means nothing, do people never learn? this is why the region lock is dumb and you have a foreigner ranked so high. if you put any of those koreans who didn't make the cut, you don't think they would've shown similar foreigner stomping results that serral did?
stephano and naniwa for example, were able to go toe to toe with the best koreans back in the day and still win tournaments. until serral does that he shouldn't be that high
listen to yourself. you are saying that someone who has shown complete dominance over everyone outside of korea is illegitimate because he is not facing koreans? so his obviously high skill level is moot because he doesn't live in seoul in a team house and play in GSL? cmon man don't be so shallow. sure, having him that high on the PR may be a stretch due to the fact that he plays in a different circuit but to say being the best foreigner means nothing is insanity.
On July 12 2018 04:31 fishjie wrote: sorry foreigners should not be ranked high unless they are competing with koreans. being the best foreigner means nothing, do people never learn? this is why the region lock is dumb and you have a foreigner ranked so high. if you put any of those koreans who didn't make the cut, you don't think they would've shown similar foreigner stomping results that serral did?
stephano and naniwa for example, were able to go toe to toe with the best koreans back in the day and still win tournaments. until serral does that he shouldn't be that high
They weren't, however, as dominating.
Depends. Stephano in his prime was like 61-2 (one dc iirc) on European ladder in between tournament wins. He was dominating other foreigners as much as Serral but maybe his lifestyle back then didn’t allow for as much consistency as Serral in doing so.
Well not quite as dominating against foreigners. During his peak year (1.10.11-1.10.12) Stephano had a 350-89 overall record (79.73%) and a 148-18 record (89.16%) in bo3+ series versus them. While during the last 8 months, after the 4.0.0 patch, Serral's record has been 208–39 (84.21%) and 66-5 (92.96%).
On July 17 2018 23:40 vult wrote: to say being the best foreigner means nothing is insanity.
Does it mean that he is better than some of the top 10 Koreans in the world?
Depending on the match-up, yes.
Even in losses, you could see his qualities. At Nation Wars he got beaten by soO but he had superior mechanics, he lacked clutchness, as well at IEM where he lost to Classic (but he was able to beat him soon after iirc).
He is better at destroying foreigners than most, if not all, koreans.
On August 05 2018 20:26 d(O.o)a wrote: This thread has some hilarious comments about Serral when we look back after GSL vs. the world
yes, i came back here to read these comments and laugh. There were more ridiculous denials in the LR threads, but spread out across hundreds of comments, so it s harder to find them.
On August 05 2018 20:26 d(O.o)a wrote: This thread has some hilarious comments about Serral when we look back after GSL vs. the world
Who would've thought? A tournament can change the perception of how strong a player is. Stats is also quite low in this ranking but after this tournament the perception has changed.
On August 05 2018 20:35 Soularion wrote: Listen I called all of this shit before it happened.
Some of you guys needed to respect what Serral was doing and all I can do is hope that you do now. The dude is seriously fucking good.
where is Stats in this ranking?
I called this shit before it happened. Stats is good. No idea why you guys didn't respect him.
Always amusing to see people saying "I told you so" after an upset tournament run. Sometimes you're right with your prediction, sometimes you're just as wrong. That doesn't mean you're a genius that knows everything better or that the other people are just dumb and disrespecting the players.
On August 05 2018 20:35 Soularion wrote: Listen I called all of this shit before it happened.
Some of you guys needed to respect what Serral was doing and all I can do is hope that you do now. The dude is seriously fucking good.
where is Stats in this ranking?
I called this shit before it happened. Stats is good. No idea why you guys didn't respect him.
Always amusing to see people saying "I told you so" after an upset tournament run. Sometimes you're right with your prediction, sometimes you're just as wrong.
I think we all kind of underestimate Stats and him getting CBNC here was obviously incorrect in hindsight, but unlike Serral he had multiple cases in the past of struggling and no real signs of good form.
Meanwhile Serral has put up insane win rates against foreigners and made top 3 at WESG over Classic, top 4 at Katowice. He literally had the results and the play of a top korean and just didn't have the opportunity, so instead of betting with play a lot of people bet illogically that he wouldn't play as great as he's played all year for whatever reason even though he's clearly played great in almost every series he's played all year.
I would've had Serral #2 or #3 coming into this tournament and I predicted him advancing in all 3 rounds. That's my point. This isn't an upset. Serral is really good. Similarly Stats going 7 games with him shouldn't be an upset either, although that Maru series was pretty weird so it's tough to say exactly where Stats stands.
On August 05 2018 20:35 Soularion wrote: Listen I called all of this shit before it happened.
Some of you guys needed to respect what Serral was doing and all I can do is hope that you do now. The dude is seriously fucking good.
where is Stats in this ranking?
I called this shit before it happened. Stats is good. No idea why you guys didn't respect him.
Always amusing to see people saying "I told you so" after an upset tournament run. Sometimes you're right with your prediction, sometimes you're just as wrong.
Always amusing to watch elitists who think they re clever because they constantly shit on foreigners and hype the Koreans get bitch-slapped in the face by the results.
But i can already see the mental gymnastics starting, oh it s just an upset.....it s not real GSL event.. he hasnt faced Rogue.....the wind was blowing too hard...
If someone couldnt accept the fact that Serral is right on par with the top koreans BEFORE this event, that person just doesnt understand starcraft or is being a complete idiot. Results are one thing, but by watching his games should be obvious for everyone how good he was and is. Even if things turned out differently, and Serral loses say 4-2 in the finals, he would still be right up there with the best of them.
On August 05 2018 20:35 Soularion wrote: Listen I called all of this shit before it happened.
Some of you guys needed to respect what Serral was doing and all I can do is hope that you do now. The dude is seriously fucking good.
where is Stats in this ranking?
I called this shit before it happened. Stats is good. No idea why you guys didn't respect him.
Always amusing to see people saying "I told you so" after an upset tournament run. Sometimes you're right with your prediction, sometimes you're just as wrong.
Meanwhile Serral has put up insane win rates against foreigners and made top 3 at WESG over Classic, top 4 at Katowice. He literally had the results and the play of a top korean and just didn't have the opportunity, so instead of betting with play a lot of people bet illogically that he wouldn't play as great as he's played all year for whatever reason even though he's clearly played great in almost every series he's played all year.
Regardless of how well he played here, I'd still argue Serral's results before weren't enough to call him top 1,2,3 or whatever. Katowice was impressive in terms of result, but he didn't have the hardest route to the ro4. Classic was the first player he met that TL considered top 10 going into the event, and he lost 0-3 to him. If Trap didn't throw game 3, people would have forgotten about the run just like last year's tragedy against Dark.
Fair enough if you argue he was a top player based on judging his skill level in wcs. But the results weren't there.
On August 05 2018 20:35 Soularion wrote: Listen I called all of this shit before it happened.
Some of you guys needed to respect what Serral was doing and all I can do is hope that you do now. The dude is seriously fucking good.
where is Stats in this ranking?
I called this shit before it happened. Stats is good. No idea why you guys didn't respect him.
Always amusing to see people saying "I told you so" after an upset tournament run. Sometimes you're right with your prediction, sometimes you're just as wrong.
Meanwhile Serral has put up insane win rates against foreigners and made top 3 at WESG over Classic, top 4 at Katowice. He literally had the results and the play of a top korean and just didn't have the opportunity, so instead of betting with play a lot of people bet illogically that he wouldn't play as great as he's played all year for whatever reason even though he's clearly played great in almost every series he's played all year.
Regardless of how well he played here, I'd still argue Serral's results before weren't enough to call him top 1,2,3 or whatever. Katowice was impressive in terms of result, but he didn't have the hardest route to the ro4. Classic was the first player he met that TL considered top 10 going into the event, and he lost 0-3 to him. If Trap didn't throw game 3, people would have forgotten about the run just like last year's tragedy against Dark.
Fair enough if you argue he was a top player based on judging his skill level in wcs. But the results weren't there.
But that's a pretty myopic view. In the context of the event he proved that he has damn good ZvZ, beating Rogue who has become since by all means a tier-2 ZvZ in my eyes (some people argue he's equal to soO/Dark, I think he has similar highs but not as consistent), beating Impact who is probably tier-3 ZvZ, beating Trap who was at the time one of the best PvZ players even though his other two matchups were quite bad. On top of that you add him whooping Classic at WESG and going on a 20-some odd series win streak in Bo3+ since, and it's clear to see that Serral was at minimum a top 5 player and in my opinion a top 3 player going into this event - not purely because of his skill, but also because a lot of the other contenders for that spot (Classic, Dark) had big holes in their resumes where as Serral had been near-flawless for months.
On August 05 2018 20:35 Soularion wrote: Listen I called all of this shit before it happened.
Some of you guys needed to respect what Serral was doing and all I can do is hope that you do now. The dude is seriously fucking good.
where is Stats in this ranking?
I called this shit before it happened. Stats is good. No idea why you guys didn't respect him.
Always amusing to see people saying "I told you so" after an upset tournament run. Sometimes you're right with your prediction, sometimes you're just as wrong.
Meanwhile Serral has put up insane win rates against foreigners and made top 3 at WESG over Classic, top 4 at Katowice. He literally had the results and the play of a top korean and just didn't have the opportunity, so instead of betting with play a lot of people bet illogically that he wouldn't play as great as he's played all year for whatever reason even though he's clearly played great in almost every series he's played all year.
Regardless of how well he played here, I'd still argue Serral's results before weren't enough to call him top 1,2,3 or whatever. Katowice was impressive in terms of result, but he didn't have the hardest route to the ro4. Classic was the first player he met that TL considered top 10 going into the event, and he lost 0-3 to him. If Trap didn't throw game 3, people would have forgotten about the run just like last year's tragedy against Dark.
Fair enough if you argue he was a top player based on judging his skill level in wcs. But the results weren't there.
But that's a pretty myopic view. In the context of the event he proved that he has damn good ZvZ, beating Rogue who has become since by all means a tier-2 ZvZ in my eyes (some people argue he's equal to soO/Dark, I think he has similar highs but not as consistent), beating Impact who is probably tier-3 ZvZ, beating Trap who was at the time one of the best PvZ players even though his other two matchups were quite bad. On top of that you add him whooping Classic at WESG and going on a 20-some odd series win streak in Bo3+ since, and it's clear to see that Serral was at minimum a top 5 player and in my opinion a top 3 player going into this event - not purely because of his skill, but also because a lot of the other contenders for that spot (Classic, Dark) had big holes in their resumes where as Serral had been near-flawless for months.
Beating players outside the top 10 doesn't make anyone top 3 in my opinion.
His Katowice run was just overrated in my eyes, Classic was the first elite player he met and he got absolutely destroyed. He would have lost 0-3 to Trap as well if he didn't throw the eastwatch map. And lets not forget Neeb was beating him until the pc lagged out and he lost his entire army because of it. This was all before the ZvP nerfs as well. In short, I think ro4 is good on paper, but his run to get there wasn't that hard.
(Beating Classic in the 3rd place match at WeSG was good though, I agree with that)
But people still hold him to a much easier standard than koreans. Solar for example also went 5-0 in his Katowice group, against better players. The reason he didn't make ro4 like Serral is because he met Maru in the ro8, who I think we can all agree would have roasted Serral as well. The only reason Solar didn't qualify for WeSG as well is because he lost 2-1 to Maru in the qualifiers, in the actual event Serral lost 3-0 to that same player. Yet no one has put Solar on a top-anything list this year.
On August 05 2018 20:35 Soularion wrote: Listen I called all of this shit before it happened.
Some of you guys needed to respect what Serral was doing and all I can do is hope that you do now. The dude is seriously fucking good.
where is Stats in this ranking?
I called this shit before it happened. Stats is good. No idea why you guys didn't respect him.
Always amusing to see people saying "I told you so" after an upset tournament run. Sometimes you're right with your prediction, sometimes you're just as wrong.
Meanwhile Serral has put up insane win rates against foreigners and made top 3 at WESG over Classic, top 4 at Katowice. He literally had the results and the play of a top korean and just didn't have the opportunity, so instead of betting with play a lot of people bet illogically that he wouldn't play as great as he's played all year for whatever reason even though he's clearly played great in almost every series he's played all year.
Regardless of how well he played here, I'd still argue Serral's results before weren't enough to call him top 1,2,3 or whatever. Katowice was impressive in terms of result, but he didn't have the hardest route to the ro4. Classic was the first player he met that TL considered top 10 going into the event, and he lost 0-3 to him. If Trap didn't throw game 3, people would have forgotten about the run just like last year's tragedy against Dark.
Fair enough if you argue he was a top player based on judging his skill level in wcs. But the results weren't there.
But that's a pretty myopic view. In the context of the event he proved that he has damn good ZvZ, beating Rogue who has become since by all means a tier-2 ZvZ in my eyes (some people argue he's equal to soO/Dark, I think he has similar highs but not as consistent), beating Impact who is probably tier-3 ZvZ, beating Trap who was at the time one of the best PvZ players even though his other two matchups were quite bad. On top of that you add him whooping Classic at WESG and going on a 20-some odd series win streak in Bo3+ since, and it's clear to see that Serral was at minimum a top 5 player and in my opinion a top 3 player going into this event - not purely because of his skill, but also because a lot of the other contenders for that spot (Classic, Dark) had big holes in their resumes where as Serral had been near-flawless for months.
Beating players outside the top 10 doesn't make anyone top 3 in my opinion.
His Katowice run was just overrated in my eyes, Classic was the first elite player he met and he got absolutely destroyed. He would have lost 0-3 to Trap as well if he didn't throw the eastwatch map. And lets not forget Neeb was beating him until the pc lagged out and he lost his entire army because of it. This was all before the ZvP nerfs as well. In short, I think ro4 is good on paper, but his run to get there wasn't that hard.
(Beating Classic in the 3rd place match at WeSG was good though, I agree with that)
But people still hold him to a much easier standard than koreans. Solar for example also went 5-0 in his Katowice group, against better players. The reason he didn't make ro4 like Serral is because he met Maru in the ro8, who I think we can all agree would have roasted Serral as well. The only reason Solar didn't qualify for WeSG as well is because he lost 2-1 to Maru in the qualifiers, in the actual event Serral lost 3-0 to that same player. Yet no one has put Solar on a top-anything list this year.
welcome to the world where losing to Maru is a feat of strength, and winning several WCS-es and beating people outside TL power ranks dont count for anything.
On July 09 2018 11:22 Haikus wrote: Putting dear at #10 over inno and $O$ is looking really silly now after yesterday huh...
edit: Also, serral at #6??? Holy mary mother of foreigner bias.
The bias I see here is that stats who made top 4 last 2 GSLs is not in the list, while Gumiho and TY there are 2 players that should not be part of that list at all, or maybe TY at the very bottom at best.
On July 11 2018 02:51 Soularion wrote: The Serral hate in this thread makes me very disappointed.
Ya'll need Finnish jesus.
It is because he is no terran and TL + users hate on everything that is non terran by habits and traditions.
On August 05 2018 20:49 Geo.Rion wrote: Always amusing to watch elitists who think they re clever because they constantly shit on foreigners and hype the Koreans get bitch-slapped in the face by the results.
But i can already see the mental gymnastics starting, oh it s just an upset.....it s not real GSL event.. he hasnt faced Rogue.....the wind was blowing too hard...
If someone couldnt accept the fact that Serral is right on par with the top koreans BEFORE this event, that person just doesnt understand starcraft or is being a complete idiot. Results are one thing, but by watching his games should be obvious for everyone how good he was and is. Even if things turned out differently, and Serral loses say 4-2 in the finals, he would still be right up there with the best of them.
The real reason is that he is not terran. If a foreigner terran was at serrals spot, barely anyone would doubt him but instead get very emotional (positive), hypetrain would be running. As zerg/protoss ppl usually are normal guys who can grant success to a player of another race, terrans here are racists unable to accept anything but terran, rigging reality as long as it is sufficient for their views.
In the view of terrans here, eras of SC2 shift between phases where terrans naturally dominate and phases where they don't due to game imabalance.
Whenever terran dominates (such as GomTvT MvP), the game is fine, whenever not, the game is getting imbalanced (PvZ Craft).
Of course noone ever talked here about best player in the world until maru started to dominate. While I am not saying he is not the the best player in the world, I am pointing out that best player of the world is only ever an issue while terrans dominate. While others dominate it is due to circumstances, excuses of any kind, accusations.
The last time best player of the world (before maru) was a thing to talk about was obviously innovation. Before it were Taeja, innovation, MvP.
This is what ofc hitted Serral as well.
If you did non rigged polls on TL about all-time best players of the world, all-time weakest race, all-time hardest to play race and current weakest race (no matter when actually), terran would win all 4 categories by a large margin.
Before people come and say its getting old. Nope. You did this for 8 years here, and me commenting on this the 4th or 5th time is not yet at all getting old. It is a matter of fact.
I am both a korean elitist and a terran balance whiner (I have been banned countless times for balance whining) yet I praised Serral and even liquidbetted on him for every round of GSL vs The World (except team league, didn't know the format well enough to predict nor watched the players list closely enough). Went as far as put him top 4 in my power rank.
Plus, many people here on TL don't hate on non terrans, quite the contrary actually.
About "best player in the world", that title was given (on LotV) to Dark / Zest in the first GSLs and before Blizzcon 2016, ByuN shortly after his miraculous run, probably Stats and / or TY around IEM 2017, INno / Rogue not too long after that, then and only then it was Maru?
Serral results in this event are good but it's not enough to label him as best in the world yet, it's a very high level side event. It probably cements him as top 3/4 world along with his WCS dominant runs and display of skill in his games, but since he doesn't play in regular GSL we will need to wait for Blizzcon.
On August 07 2018 18:42 Poopi wrote: What a load of bs LSN, wtf?
I am both a korean elitist and a terran balance whiner (I have been banned countless times for balance whining) yet I praised Serral and even liquidbetted on him for every round of GSL vs The World (except team league, didn't know the format well enough to predict nor watched the players list closely enough). Went as far as put him top 4 in my power rank.
Plus, many people here on TL don't hate on non terrans, quite the contrary actually.
About "best player in the world", that title was given (on LotV) to Dark / Zest in the first GSLs and before Blizzcon 2016, ByuN shortly after his miraculous run, probably Stats and / or TY around IEM 2017, INno / Rogue not too long after that, then and only then it was Maru?
Serral results in this event are good but it's not enough to label him as best in the world yet, it's a very high level side event. It probably cements him as top 3/4 world along with his WCS dominant runs and display of skill in his games, but since he doesn't play in regular GSL we will need to wait for Blizzcon.
This is what I concluded by rigged reality.
Anyway I am talking about trends and not about individuals not being able to break out of them - or that there are no exceptions.
As well you seem to mix up casters, which mostly seem to be pretty neutral and anyway hype every new champion, with TL.
The list of players you give is more or less a list of GSL champions which you claim have been shouted out best players of the world.
But this is not the case at all. I just remember Rogue = Patchzerg, to just name the latest. None of the others were as well, while when Maru became GSL winner, it became instantly clear he is the new single best player of the world.
Maybe it is easier for you to understand when we turn things around.
Can you tell me whenever TL called out a patchterran GSL winner or even a bit lesser terran player as patchterran?
Can you tell me whenever TL released anything similar as PvZ craft but in the opposite direction?
Can you tell me when a non terran player was hyped as much as flash without delivering anything much?
Can you tell me why all lists that TL releases are heavily terran biased? Can you name a list that is biased towards one of the two other races in the same obvious way?
Can you tell me why everyone on TL is always pointing out Oplord + Winfestor era and diminish accomplishments made by non terrans (or in this case zergs) during that time, while noone does the same for GomTvT era, where terran was heavily favoured and MvP made most of his accomplishments? MvP was put best player of all times instead by TL.
Why does TL frequently release articles how great of personalities terran players are, while others like SOS are being connoted bad characters, only out for the money, $O$, etc.
This list can be endlessly continued.
TL is the definition of bias. If it wasn't defined yet, you could point at TL metagame and explain what bias is with that.
Not only in the named matters, but as well by handling these. During the time they released 30 pages of pure balance whine in the case of PvZ craft on their main page, they insta-banned people that disposed well constructed posts about racial imbalance in the forums with the reasoning of balance whining.
Nowadays I meet not only few people on the battle.net who tell me that they have read my posts and appreciate my analysis on TL and as well others who have turned their back to TL long time ago for similar reasons that I state here. I myself have a hard time to give any credit to TL for parts of their work that is not connected to that e. g. liquipedia, which is usually of good or even great quality.
But yeah, for you it is enough to name the list of the last GSL winners, claim they have been shouted out as best players of the world. But this has nothing to do with the meta that is being played here on TL since years in fact.
Btw. any educated guy can see why a zerg player like Mizer writes a text about patchzerg GSL Winner at teamliquid. The only reason for that can be that he knows that this is appreciated amongst TL staff and its users. The only reason the same is not happening against terran is that writers know it is not appreciated by long term staff members and users. This evidence is axiomatic.
i remember when i was a kid and life was about ice cream and sunshine. now, in the hell future, we fight online over the prescience and supremacy of our starcraft rankings. i will die to bear the truth about terrans
On July 09 2018 23:19 DSK wrote: Have to say even I balked at a few of these rankings. Hopefully Serral can put up a good showing in Korean allowed tournies later in the calendar to justify the fever when it's mentioned that it wouldn't be significant if he won another WCS title.
This guy talks a lot of shite. Please ban him for this sacrilegious post. All hail the our new Finnish overlord.
On August 07 2018 18:01 LSN wrote: Of course noone ever talked here about best player in the world until maru started to dominate. While I am not saying he is not the the best player in the world, I am pointing out that best player of the world is only ever an issue while terrans dominate. While others dominate it is due to circumstances, excuses of any kind, accusations.
The last time best player of the world (before maru) was a thing to talk about was obviously innovation. Before it were Taeja, innovation, MvP.
Uhm, what? Zest was called the best in the world for being fucking dominant in 2014, so was soO for making 4 GSL finals in a row, so was Life for being the beast he was, so was Nestea for being "The creator of the universe", so were Seed and later Dear for peaking hard for a half year, so was SoS for being an allkill-monster in Proleague and winning WCS twice.
On August 07 2018 18:01 LSN wrote: Of course noone ever talked here about best player in the world until maru started to dominate. While I am not saying he is not the the best player in the world, I am pointing out that best player of the world is only ever an issue while terrans dominate. While others dominate it is due to circumstances, excuses of any kind, accusations.
The last time best player of the world (before maru) was a thing to talk about was obviously innovation. Before it were Taeja, innovation, MvP.
Uhm, what? Zest was called the best in the world for being fucking dominant in 2014, so was soO for making 4 GSL finals in a row, so was Life for being the beast he was, so was Nestea for being "The creator of the universe", so were Seed and later Dear for peaking hard for a half year, so was SoS for being an allkill-monster in Proleague and winning WCS twice.
You're operating based on ordinary reality rather than "rigged reality". Open your eyes and LSN can fix that for you. I've been missing swag_bro again lately. This is the next best thing.
On August 05 2018 20:35 Soularion wrote: Listen I called all of this shit before it happened.
Some of you guys needed to respect what Serral was doing and all I can do is hope that you do now. The dude is seriously fucking good.
where is Stats in this ranking?
I called this shit before it happened. Stats is good. No idea why you guys didn't respect him.
Always amusing to see people saying "I told you so" after an upset tournament run. Sometimes you're right with your prediction, sometimes you're just as wrong.
Meanwhile Serral has put up insane win rates against foreigners and made top 3 at WESG over Classic, top 4 at Katowice. He literally had the results and the play of a top korean and just didn't have the opportunity, so instead of betting with play a lot of people bet illogically that he wouldn't play as great as he's played all year for whatever reason even though he's clearly played great in almost every series he's played all year.
Regardless of how well he played here, I'd still argue Serral's results before weren't enough to call him top 1,2,3 or whatever. Katowice was impressive in terms of result, but he didn't have the hardest route to the ro4. Classic was the first player he met that TL considered top 10 going into the event, and he lost 0-3 to him. If Trap didn't throw game 3, people would have forgotten about the run just like last year's tragedy against Dark.
Fair enough if you argue he was a top player based on judging his skill level in wcs. But the results weren't there.
But that's a pretty myopic view. In the context of the event he proved that he has damn good ZvZ, beating Rogue who has become since by all means a tier-2 ZvZ in my eyes (some people argue he's equal to soO/Dark, I think he has similar highs but not as consistent), beating Impact who is probably tier-3 ZvZ, beating Trap who was at the time one of the best PvZ players even though his other two matchups were quite bad. On top of that you add him whooping Classic at WESG and going on a 20-some odd series win streak in Bo3+ since, and it's clear to see that Serral was at minimum a top 5 player and in my opinion a top 3 player going into this event - not purely because of his skill, but also because a lot of the other contenders for that spot (Classic, Dark) had big holes in their resumes where as Serral had been near-flawless for months.
Beating players outside the top 10 doesn't make anyone top 3 in my opinion.
His Katowice run was just overrated in my eyes, Classic was the first elite player he met and he got absolutely destroyed. He would have lost 0-3 to Trap as well if he didn't throw the eastwatch map. And lets not forget Neeb was beating him until the pc lagged out and he lost his entire army because of it. This was all before the ZvP nerfs as well. In short, I think ro4 is good on paper, but his run to get there wasn't that hard.
(Beating Classic in the 3rd place match at WeSG was good though, I agree with that)
But people still hold him to a much easier standard than koreans. Solar for example also went 5-0 in his Katowice group, against better players. The reason he didn't make ro4 like Serral is because he met Maru in the ro8, who I think we can all agree would have roasted Serral as well. The only reason Solar didn't qualify for WeSG as well is because he lost 2-1 to Maru in the qualifiers, in the actual event Serral lost 3-0 to that same player. Yet no one has put Solar on a top-anything list this year.
welcome to the world where losing to Maru is a feat of strength, and winning several WCS-es and beating people outside TL power ranks dont count for anything.
God people really like to misunderstand things today. I said that beating people outside of top 10 is not enough to consider someone one of the best. I never said it doesn't count for anything.
I also said that people hold Serral to a much easier standard than any other player. For example Solar, who's performance in the global events earlier this year was no worse than Serral's yet didn't get him on a top-anything list.
And when exactly did I say losing to Maru is a feat of strength? Beating everyone until you meet Maru is a feat of strength. That happened to both Solar and Serral earlier this year.
On August 05 2018 20:35 Soularion wrote: Listen I called all of this shit before it happened.
Some of you guys needed to respect what Serral was doing and all I can do is hope that you do now. The dude is seriously fucking good.
where is Stats in this ranking?
I called this shit before it happened. Stats is good. No idea why you guys didn't respect him.
Always amusing to see people saying "I told you so" after an upset tournament run. Sometimes you're right with your prediction, sometimes you're just as wrong.
Meanwhile Serral has put up insane win rates against foreigners and made top 3 at WESG over Classic, top 4 at Katowice. He literally had the results and the play of a top korean and just didn't have the opportunity, so instead of betting with play a lot of people bet illogically that he wouldn't play as great as he's played all year for whatever reason even though he's clearly played great in almost every series he's played all year.
Regardless of how well he played here, I'd still argue Serral's results before weren't enough to call him top 1,2,3 or whatever. Katowice was impressive in terms of result, but he didn't have the hardest route to the ro4. Classic was the first player he met that TL considered top 10 going into the event, and he lost 0-3 to him. If Trap didn't throw game 3, people would have forgotten about the run just like last year's tragedy against Dark.
Fair enough if you argue he was a top player based on judging his skill level in wcs. But the results weren't there.
But that's a pretty myopic view. In the context of the event he proved that he has damn good ZvZ, beating Rogue who has become since by all means a tier-2 ZvZ in my eyes (some people argue he's equal to soO/Dark, I think he has similar highs but not as consistent), beating Impact who is probably tier-3 ZvZ, beating Trap who was at the time one of the best PvZ players even though his other two matchups were quite bad. On top of that you add him whooping Classic at WESG and going on a 20-some odd series win streak in Bo3+ since, and it's clear to see that Serral was at minimum a top 5 player and in my opinion a top 3 player going into this event - not purely because of his skill, but also because a lot of the other contenders for that spot (Classic, Dark) had big holes in their resumes where as Serral had been near-flawless for months.
Beating players outside the top 10 doesn't make anyone top 3 in my opinion.
His Katowice run was just overrated in my eyes, Classic was the first elite player he met and he got absolutely destroyed. He would have lost 0-3 to Trap as well if he didn't throw the eastwatch map. And lets not forget Neeb was beating him until the pc lagged out and he lost his entire army because of it. This was all before the ZvP nerfs as well. In short, I think ro4 is good on paper, but his run to get there wasn't that hard.
(Beating Classic in the 3rd place match at WeSG was good though, I agree with that)
But people still hold him to a much easier standard than koreans. Solar for example also went 5-0 in his Katowice group, against better players. The reason he didn't make ro4 like Serral is because he met Maru in the ro8, who I think we can all agree would have roasted Serral as well. The only reason Solar didn't qualify for WeSG as well is because he lost 2-1 to Maru in the qualifiers, in the actual event Serral lost 3-0 to that same player. Yet no one has put Solar on a top-anything list this year.
welcome to the world where losing to Maru is a feat of strength, and winning several WCS-es and beating people outside TL power ranks dont count for anything.
God people really like to misunderstand things today. I said that beating people outside of top 10 is not enough to consider someone one of the best. I never said it doesn't count for anything.
I also said that people hold Serral to a much easier standard than any other player. For example Solar, who's performance in the global events earlier this year was no worse than Serral's yet didn't get him on a top-anything list.
And when exactly did I say losing to Maru is a feat of strength? Beating everyone until you meet Maru is a feat of strength. That happened to both Solar and Serral earlier this year.
The thing is that Serral's aligulac rating speaks for him compared to Solar.
EPT
INnoVation: INnoVation did what he was expected to do at HomeStory Cup. Good for him! We're still waiting for him to look like his old self in the GSL.![[image loading]](/tlpd/images/players/958.jpg)
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