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On July 03 2018 10:58 BigFan wrote:
I'm sure that if I went back to 2010 with my current form, I can easily grab the first couple of GSLs easy considering I know how things will develop and can abuse this. Level of play was low at the time, despite some of the players having previous RTS experience. It'll be like a diamond in WoL playing a silver player haha.
GSL season 1 MAYBE. But after that I am not so sure. No amount of experience will help you when MKP 2 rax you on close spawn LT or Metalopolis. 
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TLADT24920 Posts
On July 03 2018 11:15 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2018 10:58 BigFan wrote:
I'm sure that if I went back to 2010 with my current form, I can easily grab the first couple of GSLs easy considering I know how things will develop and can abuse this. Level of play was low at the time, despite some of the players having previous RTS experience. It'll be like a diamond in WoL playing a silver player haha. GSL season 1 MAYBE. But after that I am not so sure. No amount of experience will help you when MKP 2 rax you on close spawn LT or Metalopolis.
that's because you assume I won't proxy 2 rax him first then go for that SCV 2 rax all-in 
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early sc2 players weren't at all bad. the games were fascinating to watch and even to play in. there were some all-ins along the way.
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On June 30 2018 04:34 Crozo64 wrote:Show nested quote +
That hardly changes my point, that people claiming today's diamonds are at the level of WOL's pros are full of shit.
Yes i agree with that tho. But like firecake said, gm now ( not low gm NA ) i think could win these old WOL tournaments ( with the right build order/meta of course ).
I got gm with my 'offrace' currently and I'm complete ass. I was 100% better back then that I am now. I play just as fast but my reaction speed and mouse accuracy have gone down due to old man syndrome. Playing vs myself back then I would dumpster myself with an aggressive blink build.
Trying to draw parallels between the game then vs now is a fruitless argument.
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Many players from the oldern days if they were to play now, they would actually be able to elevate their play, so it's not like we're more talented, it's just that now it's better practice and people have more hours of playing/watching.
Nestea is a good example of a player with low execution, who really won a lot back then. I think as soon as MC comes in, the game starts to get more execution based and we would still be outmicroed by these guys, by their sheer talent alone.
Current level > WoL level, but at the same time pro's > average joe's.
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On July 04 2018 04:34 Agh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2018 04:34 Crozo64 wrote:
That hardly changes my point, that people claiming today's diamonds are at the level of WOL's pros are full of shit.
Yes i agree with that tho. But like firecake said, gm now ( not low gm NA ) i think could win these old WOL tournaments ( with the right build order/meta of course ). I got gm with my 'offrace' currently and I'm complete ass. I was 100% better back then that I am now. I play just as fast but my reaction speed and mouse accuracy have gone down due to old man syndrome. Playing vs myself back then I would dumpster myself with an aggressive blink build. Trying to draw parallels between the game then vs now is a fruitless argument.
Ok so people training and tryharding for years are worse and worse over years, seems logic ! I suppose u got gm in NA which is the less competitive gm over there by far, yes maybe the gm NA is easier now than back then, maybe.
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I honestly think this is something that can not be compared. You have to to keep in mind the information is much larger the longer something exists. This doesn't make the players bad, we are looking at 2 completely different times. This debate comes up all the time in sports also. I'm shocked that people actually attempt to compare the players in the two eras.
I also agree with Agh, I do think that GM is much easier to achieve for players than it was back in the previous years. This is probably mainly due to the field of players is a much smaller pool than before, and we have a lot of great players who left SC2 over the years. We still have greatly skilled players, but the field is just smaller, which might make it easier to achieve GM vs the past
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Finally, people with actual sense spitting truth here. This thread is ******* stupid.
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i invite you to watch reynor's games in the recent GSL groups.
has anyone heard of a 16Y/O player playing with such knowledge of everything his race can do to not only put up a fight, but eke out a win?
would any of this be even remotely as possible without the efforts and reference of players before him?
the fact of the matter is, it's bound to happen. it's ridiculous at best to make the assertion that this OP does.
if i knew apple stocks were going to raise back then, i'd be a millionaire with just a few hundred stock.
i knew it was possible, i just didn't do it. it is completely and utterly hindsight.
players now, especially young ones, can absorb information and play at a relevant level faster than anyone else so long as there is the will to do it. this was the case at all times, but helped now by the advent of information travelling faster than before.
if you know what works and what doesn't, you can quickly focus your efforts on a style that could work but with more practice. you no longer waste your time on something that is workable but invariably fruitless.
if the early GSL vets didn't put in the hours that they did, you could be damn sure we'd still be impressed by simple tricks for even longer. these are the kind of sports arguments that need to go.
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On July 05 2018 07:21 nanaoei wrote:
i invite you to watch reynor's games in the recent GSL groups.
has anyone heard of a 16Y/O player playing with such knowledge of everything his race can do to not only put up a fight, but eke out a win?
There were that one dude, I don't know if you heard of him :
 Life
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After 4 years without so much as touching the game, I played vs the A.I for a couple of hours to brush it off and learn one build (1rax cc into double medivac drop). Well, I got to masters league after only dropping one game, so yea.. this whole theory that people got better? Pure bullshit, everyone is still bad garbaggio.
p.s : I was only mid masters in most seasons of WoL, one season I got to high masters.
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pros seem to be pretty perfect now. dunno how far you can get with just one build. i will say that the early wol players were using different units than today. people are still searching for grandmaster
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On July 05 2018 07:54 Philozovic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2018 07:21 nanaoei wrote:
i invite you to watch reynor's games in the recent GSL groups.
has anyone heard of a 16Y/O player playing with such knowledge of everything his race can do to not only put up a fight, but eke out a win? There were that one dude, I don't know if you heard of him : https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Life
Flash turned pro at 14 and won his first OSL at 16. Reynor's rise is cool and impressive but there have been several others who had similar performances/outperformed at that age.
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On July 26 2018 03:12 IshinShishi wrote:
After 4 years without so much as touching the game, I played vs the A.I for a couple of hours to brush it off and learn one build (1rax cc into double medivac drop). Well, I got to masters league after only dropping one game, so yea.. this whole theory that people got better? Pure bullshit, everyone is still bad garbaggio.
p.s : I was only mid masters in most seasons of WoL, one season I got to high masters.
I would say that the OP talks about pro level players. That it might be easier to get ranked higher for lower level players might be due to the smaller playerbase - or just because of the ladder revamp in 2016. Also one game is hardly representative. I got ranked platinum earlier this year after one game (my best placement was gold so far) - but I clearly didn't belong there (or just really barely) but got ranked into it because I got really lucky against a diamond player in my placement match.
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op is claiming diamond players from today can beat pro players from 8 years ago dude
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On July 26 2018 03:57 rauk wrote:
op is claiming diamond players from today can beat pro players from 8 years ago dude
i think a match between me and 2011 Sjow playing with 1 hand would've been a close game.
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On July 26 2018 03:55 fronkschnonk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2018 03:12 IshinShishi wrote:
After 4 years without so much as touching the game, I played vs the A.I for a couple of hours to brush it off and learn one build (1rax cc into double medivac drop). Well, I got to masters league after only dropping one game, so yea.. this whole theory that people got better? Pure bullshit, everyone is still bad garbaggio.
p.s : I was only mid masters in most seasons of WoL, one season I got to high masters. I would say that the OP talks about pro level players. That it might be easier to get ranked higher for lower level players might be due to the smaller playerbase - or just because of the ladder revamp in 2016. Also one game is hardly representative. I got ranked platinum earlier this year after one game (my best placement was gold so far) - but I clearly didn't belong there (or just really barely) but got ranked into it because I got really lucky against a diamond player in my placement match.
I think you misunderstood what I meant, I said that I only lost once from unranked to masters after not playing for 4 years, people still can't macro or follow a build order properly at all.
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On July 26 2018 04:39 IshinShishi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2018 03:55 fronkschnonk wrote:On July 26 2018 03:12 IshinShishi wrote:
After 4 years without so much as touching the game, I played vs the A.I for a couple of hours to brush it off and learn one build (1rax cc into double medivac drop). Well, I got to masters league after only dropping one game, so yea.. this whole theory that people got better? Pure bullshit, everyone is still bad garbaggio.
p.s : I was only mid masters in most seasons of WoL, one season I got to high masters. I would say that the OP talks about pro level players. That it might be easier to get ranked higher for lower level players might be due to the smaller playerbase - or just because of the ladder revamp in 2016. Also one game is hardly representative. I got ranked platinum earlier this year after one game (my best placement was gold so far) - but I clearly didn't belong there (or just really barely) but got ranked into it because I got really lucky against a diamond player in my placement match. I think you misunderstood what I meant, I said that I only lost once from unranked to masters after not playing for 4 years, people still can't macro or follow a build order properly at all.
True, but Blizzard changed the league boundaries, so master league is a lot bigger now than it was four years ago in percentage terms. It was 2% back then, now it's 7%. Reaching low master now is the same as reaching mid to low diamond back then.
For pros though, personally I don't think there's been any significant change in skill since 2011 but it's impossible to compare. Our current pros would destroy old pros in the current version of the game, and the old pros would destroy current pros in the old version. So you'd have to decide on a version to play and pluck out of the air some 'fair' amount of practice each group can have (otherwise the group with more practice in that version will just win) and it all gets silly. Even if you just specify a certain period of time in which they can practice, their characteristics will change as they play, so the two groups are no longer the authentic pros of old or the ones at the start of the challenge and you're not really testing what you set out to test.
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Reason for all this non sense? Why were players bad back then?
Okey let's see. I use Serral as an example.
With his account [ENCE]Serral he seems to have the first games 10.11.2013.. Oh not really he was grandmaster then in 2013. He has been grandmaster whole that time. But surely he had got other accounts before that. Probably he started playing 2011 or 2010?
So why are pro players so good nowadays? They have just practiced what 5-8 years. Back then 2011 or 2010 they didnt have possibility to practice that long. Surprise that you get better with practice? :D
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I dont understand why this thread is still open. What is the point of it?
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EPT
