EPTBalance Update - March 19, 2018 - Page 8
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Let's tone down the vitriol here just a bit. It's okay to have some heated discussion about balance (especially in this kind of thread), but I fear you guys might start crossing some lines soon. - Wax | ||
Waxangel
United States33699 Posts
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
On March 22 2018 15:24 insitelol wrote: God, that zerg whine is over the board. It will amuse you guys, but the fact you facerolled over Protoss since LoTV spamming hydra 24/7 doesnt mean your skill suddenly increased. Guess what, MU just was freaking imbalanced (+1 range hydras anyone?), so welcome back to earth, boys. Time to start playing the actual game. If 43% WR, Scarlet almost 4-0ing sOs with BS allins isn't enough of an indicator for you, then i don't know what whould be. Just listen to the arguments: Protoss have "super strong wall" and "sentries", are we in 2010?, ravagers anyone? "We cant drop with tier1 tech" - did you actually know the other races get access to drop at tier2? and they cant just park ovies and lings at the cliff right before evo finishes. Pathetic. The only one whining and "not acknowledging" facts here is you. PvZ is 43%, PvT is 49%. In any case, "lets nerf the protoss that is getting destroyed by zerg, because terran is having hard time vs protoss" logic is awesome. " Scarlet almost 4-0ing sOs with BS allins isn't enough of an indicator for you, then i don't know what whould be" Hahahaha, what a failed argument. Isn't it how sOs wins most of his games? With BS allins and cheeses? | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On March 22 2018 16:38 hiroshOne wrote: " Scarlet almost 4-0ing sOs with BS allins isn't enough of an indicator for you, then i don't know what whould be" Hahahaha, what a failed argument. Isn't it how sOs wins most of his games? With BS allins and cheeses? sOs is the embodiment of God of StarCraft on earth, while Scarlett is just an ordinary foreigner. Feel the difference? | ||
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Snarosc
France66 Posts
On March 22 2018 17:09 insitelol wrote: sOs is the embodiment of God of StarCraft on earth, while Scarlett is just an ordinary foreigner. Feel the difference? I mean, the simple fact that this is what we've come down to.. Comparing foreigners with koreans just because foreign zergs often steamrolls on korean protoss players and we think it's normal.. (And yes korean protoss only because the winrate of Foreign zergs vs Korean terrans or zergs must be something like 1 victory out of 10 matches).. This, by itself, shows there's something wrong with the matchup. I mean no disrespect to foreign zerg players, but they are still incapable of breaking korean Terrans or Zergs on a regular basis, like they are capable with the korean Protoss. PvZ has been at a ridiculously low level (43-45% for months, and overall below 50% for at least a two-digit number of months) and yet most of the whine in this thread is coming from Zergs thinking Protoss should be nerfed.. I'm lost beyond words at this point. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
On March 22 2018 15:24 insitelol wrote: God, that zerg whine is over the board. It will amuse you guys, but the fact you facerolled over Protoss since LoTV spamming hydra 24/7 doesnt mean your skill suddenly increased. Guess what, MU just was freaking imbalanced (+1 range hydras anyone?), so welcome back to earth, boys. Time to start playing the actual game. If 43% WR, Scarlet almost 4-0ing sOs with BS allins isn't enough of an indicator for you, then i don't know what whould be. Just listen to the arguments: Protoss have "super strong wall" and "sentries", are we in 2010?, ravagers anyone? "We cant drop with tier1 tech" - did you actually know the other races get access to drop at tier2? and they cant just park ovies and lings at the cliff right before evo finishes. Pathetic. The only one whining and "not acknowledging" facts here is you. PvZ is 43%, PvT is 49%. In any case, "lets nerf the protoss that is getting destroyed by zerg, because terran is having hard time vs protoss" logic is awesome. All I tasted were toss balance whine for the last year before now. Quit acting like immortal sentrie archon doesn't smash ravagers roach styles. Toss cry so hard about their options and early game so they can play greedy. But terran fall to the way side. Zerg has to sit bsck and play defensivley anf you can do what you want.You want fast probes AND upgrades and your fucking shield batteries for your defensive capabilities. Somehow you find that balanced it's fine as long as everything gets needed around you.. Chronoboost with your multiple openings and your upgrades are redonk. No one has fucking refuted that at all with my posts. You guys just want to play greedy and cry when it doesn't happen. That's poor play. | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
On March 22 2018 16:09 Waxangel wrote: Let's tone down the intensity here just a bit. It's okay to have some heated discussion about balance (especially in this kind of thread), but I fear you guys might start crossing some lines soon. Sorry my bad the language I used was kind of strong. | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
On March 22 2018 18:10 Snarosc wrote: I mean, the simple fact that this is what we've come down to.. Comparing foreigners with koreans just because foreign zergs often steamrolls on korean protoss players and we think it's normal.. (And yes korean protoss only because the winrate of Foreign zergs vs Korean terrans or zergs must be something like 1 victory out of 10 matches).. This, by itself, shows there's something wrong with the matchup. I mean no disrespect to foreign zerg players, but they are still incapable of breaking korean Terrans or Zergs on a regular basis, like they are capable with the korean Protoss. PvZ has been at a ridiculously low level (43-45% for months, and overall below 50% for at least a two-digit number of months) and yet most of the whine in this thread is coming from Zergs thinking Protoss should be nerfed.. I'm lost beyond words at this point. The majority of zerg whine isn't geared towards toss nerfs. Just the hamstringing of out early game. You guys want WoL turtle again? | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
On March 22 2018 18:17 hiroshOne wrote: Classic stomped Serral- the best foreign Zerg on IEM Katowice semis. Whatever u say about "foreign Zergs facerolling korean protosses on regular basis"- is just false. But serral got his revenge to be fair. Also he didn't cheese either that was straight macro. | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary492 Posts
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
On March 22 2018 18:44 kajtarp wrote: As much as i'd like to blame balance on soO's loss, i think he just didn't scout well quite many times. Still i don't agree the droperlord nerf was a right call. But what is really bugging me since very very long time is revelation tbh. The effect is just simply too long. Imho revelation should only reveal and give toss vision for a limited amount of time. Am i the only one with this? In return i'd lower hallucination energy a lot. SoO didn't lose because of balance I don't think that was the topic in contention. | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
On March 22 2018 18:44 kajtarp wrote: As much as i'd like to blame balance on soO's loss, i think he just didn't scout well quite many times. Still i don't agree the droperlord nerf was a right call. But what is really bugging me since very very long time is revelation tbh. The effect is just simply too long. Imho revelation should only reveal and give toss vision for a limited amount of time. Am i the only one with this? In return i'd lower hallucination energy a lot. Honestly toss having more utility out of gateway units would be good. Didn't have to take drops to lair for toss to be able to defend. | ||
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DSh1
292 Posts
On March 22 2018 18:44 kajtarp wrote: As much as i'd like to blame balance on soO's loss, i think he just didn't scout well quite many times. Still i don't agree the droperlord nerf was a right call. But what is really bugging me since very very long time is revelation tbh. The effect is just simply too long. Imho revelation should only reveal and give toss vision for a limited amount of time. Am i the only one with this? In return i'd lower hallucination energy a lot. I feel like Observers are too susceptible to snipe, so I'm fine with the current revelation. If I'm not mistaken, the duration was already halved. | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary492 Posts
On March 22 2018 18:46 Shakattak wrote: SoO didn't lose because of balance I don't think that was the topic in contention. if you read back a few pages since yesterday i've seen quite many posts complaining that the latest balance patch had some part(or big part) in soO's loss. | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
On March 22 2018 18:10 Snarosc wrote: I mean, the simple fact that this is what we've come down to.. Comparing foreigners with koreans just because foreign zergs often steamrolls on korean protoss players and we think it's normal.. (And yes korean protoss only because the winrate of Foreign zergs vs Korean terrans or zergs must be something like 1 victory out of 10 matches).. This, by itself, shows there's something wrong with the matchup. I mean no disrespect to foreign zerg players, but they are still incapable of breaking korean Terrans or Zergs on a regular basis, like they are capable with the korean Protoss. PvZ has been at a ridiculously low level (43-45% for months, and overall below 50% for at least a two-digit number of months) and yet most of the whine in this thread is coming from Zergs thinking Protoss should be nerfed.. I'm lost beyond words at this point. Zergs in general have been having a rough time against terran, there are only a few zerga that cab take terran on consistently at the moment. | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
On March 22 2018 18:51 kajtarp wrote: if you read back a few pages since yesterday i've seen quite many posts complaining that the latest balance patch had some part(or big part) in soO's loss. SoO isn't generally one for gimmicks, people saying he lost because of that are not well informed. User was warned for multi-posting. | ||
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Snarosc
France66 Posts
On March 22 2018 18:17 hiroshOne wrote: Classic stomped Serral- the best foreign Zerg on IEM Katowice semis. Whatever u say about "foreign Zergs facerolling korean protosses on regular basis"- is just false. See that's the problem with you. I say "Foreign zergs stomp korean protoss on a regular basis" and what do you answer ? It's not right because Classic beat Serral THAT ONE TIME.. Yeah sure, and you also forget to mention that in that very same tournament, Serral previously ended Zest and Trap (As well as Neeb even tho he's not korean but undoubtedly the best foreign protoss) Let's also forget that later in WESG Serral also took down Classic 3-1, but as soon as he ran into a Terran (Maru) he got stomped 3-0. I mean come on, as good as Serral is, he takes down korean protosses way more than korean terrans or zergs. Scarlett ? Same. Elazer ? Same. Again, no disrespect to any of them, but they'd not be as strong as they are today if not for how ridiculous the PvZ matchup is. | ||
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Snarosc
France66 Posts
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egrimm
Poland1201 Posts
On March 22 2018 08:38 Shakattak wrote: I never claimed mid game compositions weren't viable or good still but attacking with them when there are oracles Phoenix for pick ups etc is kind of difficult and not always viable. Defensively yeah, still really really strong mass drops with roach hydra are more of mid late game to delay toss till your hive starts kicking in. But I am not really complaining about mid late game just early to mid. There were other changes that could be implemented instead of taking drops away to lair. To be frank I am not sure what You'd like to have in PvZ matchup anymore. You don't have to all-in - There are plenty zerg comps that work in mid game which I listed in previous post and as soon as Protoss goes for his 3rd base (and go past his imba wall) You can start to apply pressure. This is how most of Serral games looked like. He is constatly attacking from multiple angles with hydra/bane/ling comps later going into drops and lurkers which even got upgrade that prolongs their usage. You can stay on this comp for a veeeeery long time without teching to bl - you just have to apply pressure from the start and trade constantly. Yes, it is hard to deal dmg to protoss which stays on 2base behind his wall without going all-in as zerg however as soon as he starts his 3rd there is a LOT you can do to deal dmg. If this is what You are complaining about ("deal dmg to protoss which stays on 2base") then we can start this discussion why it is designed like that. | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary492 Posts
On March 22 2018 19:05 Snarosc wrote: See that's the problem with you. I say "Foreign zergs stomp korean protoss on a regular basis" and what do you answer ? It's not right because Classic beat Serral THAT ONE TIME.. Yeah sure, and you also forget to mention that in that very same tournament, Serral previously ended Zest and Trap (As well as Neeb even tho he's not korean but undoubtedly the best foreign protoss) Let's also forget that later in WESG Serral also took down Classic 3-1, but as soon as he ran into a Terran (Maru) he got stomped 3-0. I mean come on, as good as Serral is, he takes down korean protosses way more than korean terrans or zergs. Scarlett ? Same. Elazer ? Same. Again, no disrespect to any of them, but they'd not be as strong as they are today if not for how ridiculous the PvZ matchup is. I'm sorry but your example is wrong. Zest is simply far from his top form. Classic was devastated because he didn't make the finals at wesg. You could notice he was giving up mentally vs Serral and it has nothing to do with balance. Also it's obvious that foreign Zergs are better against Toss. Foreign scene has no Terrans similar to alive,Inno,Maru,TY. The only decent T is Special, while foreign scene has much more good Protosses and Zergs. | ||
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