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Let's tone down the vitriol here just a bit. It's okay to have some heated discussion about balance (especially in this kind of thread), but I fear you guys might start crossing some lines soon. - Wax |
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Short and sweet: The Zerg nerf is live, drops require Lair tech as of now.
Today’s balance change is focused on reducing the early aggression of Zerg that was particularly problematic for Protoss players. For more insight on the thoughts behind these changes, browse through our last two community updates.
Zerg
The Overlord’s Mutate Ventral Sacs upgrade now requires a Lair instead of an Evolution Chamber.
With this change now live, we’ll also be taking down the balance testing queue. Thanks for everyone who helped by playing and giving us feedback. We’ll see you on the ladder.
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The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic?
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On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic?
since when were nydus OP?
also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play
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Thank god. It's only taken them all the time since LotV's release.
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On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play
If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate).
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Few days before soO vs Stats. Great...
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On March 20 2018 05:53 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate).
While it's absurd in the current meta, it realistically won't be as effective in a world where Protoss isn't forced to open stargate every game, and can better afford to build stalkers early on. It could still be too good, but I don't think it makes sense to nerf nydus when dropperlords are already getting nerfed.
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On March 20 2018 05:53 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate).
No, you're just bad, if you can't identify fast lair, delayed third (or no third), lack of drone, lack of speedling at the normal timing.
Nyndus is just a way to punish the players that don't scout, but these player prefer call "nyndus op" rather than scouting...
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On March 20 2018 06:07 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:53 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate). No, you're just bad, if you can't identify fast lair, delayed third (or no third), lack of drone, lack of speedling at the normal timing. Nyndus is just a way to punish the players that don't scout, but these player prefer call "nyndus op" rather than scouting...
If Classic cant even do anything about it then I wouldn't call someone bad for losing against it, it does look incredibly hard to defend but might not be a thing anymore if Robo or twilight comes into play.
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On March 20 2018 05:53 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate).
Nydus has never lost against Protoss, or Terran as well?
Because just off the top of my head, Maru beat Serral's nydus.
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On March 20 2018 06:19 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 06:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On March 20 2018 05:53 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate). No, you're just bad, if you can't identify fast lair, delayed third (or no third), lack of drone, lack of speedling at the normal timing. Nyndus is just a way to punish the players that don't scout, but these player prefer call "nyndus op" rather than scouting... If Classic cant even do anything about it then I wouldn't call someone bad for losing against it, it does look incredibly hard to defend but might not be a thing anymore if Robo or twilight comes into play.
Pick zerg, do it on ladder, you'll see if you have 100% winrate...
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Good change, I hope this is enough to balance ZvP at the top level.
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On March 20 2018 06:07 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:53 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate). No, you're just bad, if you can't identify fast lair, delayed third (or no third), lack of drone, lack of speedling at the normal timing. Nyndus is just a way to punish the players that don't scout, but these player prefer call "nyndus op" rather than scouting...
I haven't played toss since 2016 lol. But seriously though, you can't always guarantee scouting a nydus. And even if you do, it's impossible to hold with a stargate opening unless you know far enough ahead in advance.
And btw, I'm literally asking for someone to show me a pro game since 4.0 where a nydus cheese failed. If you think a cheese with a 100% success rate isn't unfair then I don't know what to say.
On March 20 2018 06:21 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 05:53 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate). Nydus has never lost against Protoss, or Terran as well? Because just off the top of my head, Maru beat Serral's nydus.
I'm refering to ZvP. It's less OP against terran because they have better scouted, and simply better units available to defend. That being said I do think it's too strong. Can result in easy build order wins for zerg if unscouted.
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On March 20 2018 06:29 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 06:19 Zaros wrote:On March 20 2018 06:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On March 20 2018 05:53 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate). No, you're just bad, if you can't identify fast lair, delayed third (or no third), lack of drone, lack of speedling at the normal timing. Nyndus is just a way to punish the players that don't scout, but these player prefer call "nyndus op" rather than scouting... If Classic cant even do anything about it then I wouldn't call someone bad for losing against it, it does look incredibly hard to defend but might not be a thing anymore if Robo or twilight comes into play. Pick zerg, do it on ladder, you'll see if you have 100% winrate...
The game isn't balanced around average ladder games. It's balanced around the elite level. Where currently it never loses as far as I'm concerned.
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On March 20 2018 06:36 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 06:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On March 20 2018 05:53 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate). No, you're just bad, if you can't identify fast lair, delayed third (or no third), lack of drone, lack of speedling at the normal timing. Nyndus is just a way to punish the players that don't scout, but these player prefer call "nyndus op" rather than scouting... I haven't played toss since 2016 lol. But seriously though, you can't always guarantee scouting a nydus. And even if you do, it's impossible to hold with a stargate opening unless you know far enough ahead in advance. And btw, I'm literally asking for someone to show me a pro game since 4.0 where a nydus cheese failed. If you think a cheese with a 100% success rate isn't unfair then I don't know what to say. Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 06:21 pvsnp wrote:On March 20 2018 05:53 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate). Nydus has never lost against Protoss, or Terran as well? Because just off the top of my head, Maru beat Serral's nydus. I'm refering to ZvP. It's less OP against terran because they have better scouted, and simply better units available to defend. That being said I do think it's too strong. Can result in easy build order wins for zerg if unscouted.
According to this, it's almost impossible to defend 2 rax bunker rush with Hatchery first. I'ts failed argument, as something like build order loss exists in sc2
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This is a serious nerf.
If you don't need to open stargate + phenix + oracle every single game,
at the time the nydus pops you can have already one more immortal or afford centry with halu to scout it.
And if Zerg does not go for Nydus, a single Zellot with shield battery can hold your natural,
so P players can be far more greedy.
Let's wait how it plays out.
Still, they should do it after Soo vs Stats.
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I still think that instead of nerfing droperlords which limits Zerg options in early game a lot, they should just lower the energy cost of hallucination from Sentry. That should give Protoss more options for scouting early.
The problem with this nerf is, that Protoss still will open stargate and play extremely greedy because there is nothing what Zerg can do to punish that. There will be no threat of speedlings in his base...Bad decision Blizzard.
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On March 20 2018 06:37 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 06:29 Tyrhanius wrote:On March 20 2018 06:19 Zaros wrote:On March 20 2018 06:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On March 20 2018 05:53 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate). No, you're just bad, if you can't identify fast lair, delayed third (or no third), lack of drone, lack of speedling at the normal timing. Nyndus is just a way to punish the players that don't scout, but these player prefer call "nyndus op" rather than scouting... If Classic cant even do anything about it then I wouldn't call someone bad for losing against it, it does look incredibly hard to defend but might not be a thing anymore if Robo or twilight comes into play. Pick zerg, do it on ladder, you'll see if you have 100% winrate... The game isn't balanced around average ladder games. It's balanced around the elite level. Where currently it never loses as far as I'm concerned.
Ok, keep whining, stay bad, not my problem.
User was warned for this post.
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On March 20 2018 07:11 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 06:37 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 06:29 Tyrhanius wrote:On March 20 2018 06:19 Zaros wrote:On March 20 2018 06:07 Tyrhanius wrote:On March 20 2018 05:53 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 05:14 iMrising wrote:On March 20 2018 05:02 StarscreamG1 wrote:
The OP Nydus is killing players, but are the drops that are nerfed xD Logic? since when were nydus OP? also if you thought they were OP, drop nerf will indirectly help protoss defend against nyduses. non-stargate openings are stronger versus nydus play If the droperlord nerf allows players to not open stargate then fair enough. But the nydus is beyond broken right now. I haven't seen a nydus cheese lose in a single pro game since 4.0 (if anyone has, please let me know, because as far as I'm concerned it has a 100% winrate). No, you're just bad, if you can't identify fast lair, delayed third (or no third), lack of drone, lack of speedling at the normal timing. Nyndus is just a way to punish the players that don't scout, but these player prefer call "nyndus op" rather than scouting... If Classic cant even do anything about it then I wouldn't call someone bad for losing against it, it does look incredibly hard to defend but might not be a thing anymore if Robo or twilight comes into play. Pick zerg, do it on ladder, you'll see if you have 100% winrate... The game isn't balanced around average ladder games. It's balanced around the elite level. Where currently it never loses as far as I'm concerned. Ok, keep whining, stay bad, not my problem.
Don't mind me, just savoring the irony here.
Tbh though I wouldn't rush to nerf nydus so quickly after the dropperlord nerf.
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I really hope soO and Stats knew for sure that this was coming ahead of time because it could open things up significantly for Stats.
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EPT
