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SC2 community in a nutshell:
[End of hots]
Blizz pls fix SH, redesign economy, do not let tutrling to be the most broken thing in the game, who wants to watch 2h or 4h long games...
[After LOTV release]
Pls pls pls turning back, 3base only wtf you were even thing that we NEED to expand and move our units? Bring back turling and old hots!
Wtf....
You're mixing thing and idk, the community is hard to represent because I know a lot of people at the end of lotv who loved the 3 base play.
That being said when i say you're mixing thing it's because 3 base play and slow developpement with clear early, mid and late game doesn't mean turtling or SH.
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On April 11 2017 07:20 LDLCmiyako wrote:Show nested quote +SC2 community in a nutshell:
[End of hots]
Blizz pls fix SH, redesign economy, do not let tutrling to be the most broken thing in the game, who wants to watch 2h or 4h long games...
[After LOTV release]
Pls pls pls turning back, 3base only wtf you were even thing that we NEED to expand and move our units? Bring back turling and old hots!
Wtf.... You're mixing thing and idk, the community is hard to represent because I know a lot of people at the end of lotv who loved the 3 base play. That being said when i say you're mixing thing it's because 3 base play and slow developpement with clear early, mid and late game doesn't mean turtling or SH.
Yes it was so much fun facing 2base immortal or 7gate play or 3base collosus into tempest with templars... so much fan scouting 3 factories and later 5 starports massing ravens... so much fun fire up sc2 only knowing instead of 10 games you can play in lotv u would probably play like 2 or 3 because game would took 45 minutes of zerg trying to break thru wall of defense.. because hey, I'm on 3 bases im so rich i dont need to move out because i know ur late game sucks...  )
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On April 11 2017 07:08 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
SC2 community in a nutshell:
[End of hots]
Blizz pls fix SH, redesign economy, do not let tutrling to be the most broken thing in the game, who wants to watch 2h or 4h long games...
[After LOTV release]
Pls pls pls turning back, 3base only wtf you were even thing that we NEED to expand and move our units? Bring back turling and old hots!
Wtf....
Blizzard obviously can't please everyone. Have you considered that some people didn't like LotV from the start? I for one only switched to LotV because HotS was left with such a small player pool. Ladder wasn't competitive enough for me. Otherwise I would still be playing HotS.
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On April 11 2017 07:40 Infiiiniity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2017 07:08 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
SC2 community in a nutshell:
[End of hots]
Blizz pls fix SH, redesign economy, do not let tutrling to be the most broken thing in the game, who wants to watch 2h or 4h long games...
[After LOTV release]
Pls pls pls turning back, 3base only wtf you were even thing that we NEED to expand and move our units? Bring back turling and old hots!
Wtf.... Blizzard obviously can't please everyone. Have you considered that some people didn't like LotV from the start? I for one only switched to LotV because HotS was left with such a small player pool. Ladder wasn't competitive enough for me. Otherwise I would still be playing HotS.
Than there should be no option to play it once new thing came out... its like you would play league of legends before map or UI revamp... or Dota before 7.0 (or the reborn)...
Also changes are good and needed.. more radical, the better... and im quite sure you are protoss or terran
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On April 11 2017 07:55 PharaphobiaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2017 07:40 Infiiiniity wrote:On April 11 2017 07:08 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
SC2 community in a nutshell:
[End of hots]
Blizz pls fix SH, redesign economy, do not let tutrling to be the most broken thing in the game, who wants to watch 2h or 4h long games...
[After LOTV release]
Pls pls pls turning back, 3base only wtf you were even thing that we NEED to expand and move our units? Bring back turling and old hots!
Wtf.... Blizzard obviously can't please everyone. Have you considered that some people didn't like LotV from the start? I for one only switched to LotV because HotS was left with such a small player pool. Ladder wasn't competitive enough for me. Otherwise I would still be playing HotS. Than there should be no option to play it once new thing came out...
Hell no. Why keep the players that want to play the game from doing so? Makes no sense.
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On April 11 2017 08:15 Infiiiniity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2017 07:55 PharaphobiaSC wrote:On April 11 2017 07:40 Infiiiniity wrote:On April 11 2017 07:08 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
SC2 community in a nutshell:
[End of hots]
Blizz pls fix SH, redesign economy, do not let tutrling to be the most broken thing in the game, who wants to watch 2h or 4h long games...
[After LOTV release]
Pls pls pls turning back, 3base only wtf you were even thing that we NEED to expand and move our units? Bring back turling and old hots!
Wtf.... Blizzard obviously can't please everyone. Have you considered that some people didn't like LotV from the start? I for one only switched to LotV because HotS was left with such a small player pool. Ladder wasn't competitive enough for me. Otherwise I would still be playing HotS. Than there should be no option to play it once new thing came out... Hell no. Why keep the players that want to play the game from doing so? Makes no sense.
To prevent all these random suggestions... if you had only access to lotv half of these thread would never go even up
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Yes it was so much fun facing 2base immortal or 7gate play or 3base collosus into tempest with templars... so much fan scouting 3 factories and later 5 starports massing ravens... so much fun fire up sc2 only knowing instead of 10 games you can play in lotv u would probably play like 2 or 3 because game would took 45 minutes of zerg trying to break thru wall of defense.. because hey, I'm on 3 bases im so rich i dont need to move out because i know ur late game sucks... )
well i liked to watch the 7 gate robot play much better than the mass adept all the time. 3 base colossus was pretty fun to play against, 5 starport raven is pretty much what i face every tvt nowadays anyway...
I mean sure there was downside but there was a lot of good part aswell.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On April 11 2017 03:09 PPN wrote:
While I can understand the debate which is more fun to watch between HOTS and LOTV, I don't get why people even bring WOL in the discussion if only out of pure nostalgia. WOL was pretty much a shitshow most of its time (early on GomTvT time until Queen range, lmao PvT with Khaydarin Amulet and then 1-1-1 all-in, PvP 4Gates all day long, Immo/Sentry Soul Train, and BL Infestors for half a year). It was new and hype on the moment but let's face it at its core, WOL really is barebone, dull and broken.
I don't understand either how anyone can say out of their ass that the poll would be skewed toward LOTV because people who enjoy the game stayed and will vote while people who hate the game already left and won't even bother. Yeah all the "ded game/DK hate" posts on TL are written by ghosts. Sure.
I didn't play any lotv 1v1s yet (watched a bit lately and thinking about carving out some time for it..), but WoL had some good eras too...
TvZ was great for a while when it was marine tank vs muta baneling centered (nestea vs .... sC wasnt it? Was epic). TvT was good throughout all of WoL imo (fav era for me was mech v mech era but all tvt is great except pure mech vs pure bio).
Played a fair bit of hots and dont think it was bad. TvT still awesome, tvp better. TvZ a bit worse maybe but the mmmm v lbm was okay.
For lotv, Ive mostly seen pvz recently but that matchup looks waaaaay better than before, no?
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On April 11 2017 09:27 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
For lotv, Ive mostly seen pvz recently but that matchup looks waaaaay better than before, no?
In what way do you think?
ZvP got hit the hardest out of all the matchups in LotV when it came to losing build diversity. Zerg had many more options in HotS for how to play a game against Protoss, but now a lot of the games just look the same.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On April 11 2017 10:24 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2017 09:27 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
For lotv, Ive mostly seen pvz recently but that matchup looks waaaaay better than before, no? In what way do you think? ZvP got hit the hardest out of all the matchups in LotV when it came to losing build diversity. Zerg had many more options in HotS for how to play a game against Protoss, but now a lot of the games just look the same.
I thought the showtime vs serral games from a couple of days ago as well as nerchio vs dns looked healthy.
I thought pvz was a pretty degenerate matchup in wol/hots but to be fair i never played it so very much an outsider perspective.
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"Zerg had many more options in HotS ZvP"
xXDD
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From my limited experience and viewer perspective:
good game/HotS > good game/LotV > bad game/LotV > bad game /HotS
However the quota of good games vs bad games is clearly in favor of HotS. The truly unwatchable 90 minutes Raven vs SH shitshows were rare, while now it's almost always the same boring worker harass deciding the games without even one meaningful, balanced battle.
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at first it was more fun, but now i'm not even watching anything, wol is still the best for me, no mines, oracles, vipers and swarmhosts, add hellbat, mcore and nerf fungal and it's perfect game, don't need to mention lotv units.
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On April 11 2017 14:11 PtitDrogo wrote:
"Zerg had many more options in HotS ZvP"
xXDD
Roach/hydra/viper (or corrupter)
roach/ling or hydra/ling into mutas
mass roach variants
muta/corruptor
ling/bane/muta
infestor/ling into ultras
pure upgraded lings into fast ultras
all the stupid swarmhost builds
even bane drops popped up from time to time
Not to mention things like the early pools and all-ins. The strats fell in and out of favor but comon there was a lot of different styles :/
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On April 11 2017 14:50 Tachion wrote:
Roach/hydra/viper (or corrupter)
roach/ling or hydra/ling into mutas
mass roach variants
muta/corruptor
ling/bane/muta
infestor/ling into ultras
pure upgraded lings into fast ultras
all the stupid swarmhost builds
even bane drops popped up from time to time
Not to mention things like the early pools and all-ins. The strats fell in and out of favor but comon there was a lot of different styles :/
???????
many of these still exist plus more (ling/bane/hydra)
don't forget lurkers being the "replacement" for swarmhost builds
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On April 11 2017 15:22 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2017 14:50 Tachion wrote:
Roach/hydra/viper (or corrupter)
roach/ling or hydra/ling into mutas
mass roach variants
muta/corruptor
ling/bane/muta
infestor/ling into ultras
pure upgraded lings into fast ultras
all the stupid swarmhost builds
even bane drops popped up from time to time
Not to mention things like the early pools and all-ins. The strats fell in and out of favor but comon there was a lot of different styles :/ ??????? many of these still exist plus more (ling/bane/hydra) don't forget lurkers being the "replacement" for swarmhost builds
Well fuck me if true. I need to watch more starcraft it seems.
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Zerg's only option in HotS ZvP was to all-in or fake an all-in so +2 blink doesn't kill you no matter what you do
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 11 2017 15:35 Ej_ wrote:
Zerg's only option in HotS ZvP was to all-in or fake an all-in so +2 blink doesn't kill you no matter what you do
Really? Because, you know, there are leagues beyond masters. And I dare to say that this isn't true even for all masters players.
This is the problem. Everyone here is talking about the game not being versatile or optimal for the top players. While you have huge playerbase bellow these players. And while this game is attractive for the top players and for the mechanical players it's way less attractive for the rest. I always played a game of scouting and reacting. Now I cannot do it, before I scout something the enemy is knocking on my base. I simply have to open safely and hope. I am not a pro player, I cannot study my enemy beforehand and do a guess based on his history of games on this map. I have to play "something" and I don't know the opponent. And i don't care about top players, I care about MY ENJOYMENT.
And if these low league players are leaving then you are losing the base. From these low league players you get all the viewers. And these people are leaving, I can see it on the time of the search for a game and the quality of my opponents(way more diverse).
BTW, an example to the "zerg has no options"
"Mines killed templar openings" - sure, at the top level it did. At my level? No way, and I was diamond(this means there's more than 70 % of players under me where it's viable too). My opening was usually killed by a map design(e.g. the octopus map).
I loved to play reactive games. I scouted and reacted. It was a game of cat & mouse. And if the enemy did some mind game and I lost - hell, it was entertaining. NOw? I have to decide before I can scout anything. FFS, sometimes I am defending cannon rush before I actually see the enemy base! (4 player maps) And I'm scouting before pylon!!!
No, LotV killed the way how I play and many others. And defending top players strategies doesn't help ME.
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On April 11 2017 09:27 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2017 03:09 PPN wrote:
While I can understand the debate which is more fun to watch between HOTS and LOTV, I don't get why people even bring WOL in the discussion if only out of pure nostalgia. WOL was pretty much a shitshow most of its time (early on GomTvT time until Queen range, lmao PvT with Khaydarin Amulet and then 1-1-1 all-in, PvP 4Gates all day long, Immo/Sentry Soul Train, and BL Infestors for half a year). It was new and hype on the moment but let's face it at its core, WOL really is barebone, dull and broken.
I don't understand either how anyone can say out of their ass that the poll would be skewed toward LOTV because people who enjoy the game stayed and will vote while people who hate the game already left and won't even bother. Yeah all the "ded game/DK hate" posts on TL are written by ghosts. Sure. I didn't play any lotv 1v1s yet (watched a bit lately and thinking about carving out some time for it..), but WoL had some good eras too... TvZ was great for a while when it was marine tank vs muta baneling centered (nestea vs .... sC wasnt it? Was epic). TvT was good throughout all of WoL imo (fav era for me was mech v mech era but all tvt is great except pure mech vs pure bio). Played a fair bit of hots and dont think it was bad. TvT still awesome, tvp better. TvZ a bit worse maybe but the mmmm v lbm was okay. For lotv, Ive mostly seen pvz recently but that matchup looks waaaaay better than before, no?
I think 4M vs lbm is even better than marine tank vs Zerg. The thing about tanks is that the game is ending faster since you cant build tanks as fast as mines. When you lose your tanks it takes way longer to get your army again, whereas with mines the never ending pushes can continue even if the Zerg cleans up most of them with 4M there is much more action going on.
And yes, PvZ is much better, because even at the end of WoL the 2 base sentry all-in crap was starting. And isn't the resource change crucial to ending the era of 2 base all-ins?
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I don't think the game is more fun to watch as it turned to more MOBA spam abilities contest style than basic units fight
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EPT
