EPTGreath explanation, the funny thing is that they completely forget about game 4 wich has the same exact situation but reversed.
Thanks, but I'm not sure what you mean about Game 4. Game 4 was a pylon rush + Oracle cheese.
TY wins IEM Katowice - Day 6 Recap - Page 4
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Thanks, but I'm not sure what you mean about Game 4. Game 4 was a pylon rush + Oracle cheese. | ||
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Major
Mexico539 Posts
opening robo is completly fine. what is not fine is being greedy / losing probes u just die to the tank push if that is the case, also saying nerfing mine will fix the tank push is completly silly considering mines arent even used during the initial tank push phase which is what is scary about it. the build ty used for tank push is also new. never done before threfore the timings that stats normally use for a normal stim timing w tank push didnt really seem to be great vs the version ty was using. saying robo is not viable is silly. literally in this bo7 he open robo once and he won when he didnt lose 10 probes to 2 hellion and 2 mine. is like terran losing 10 scvs to a oracle. u just lose its how sc2 works u lose workers early game and its almost impossible to win also people mention pvt is 40%. i dont know about you but for me only winrates that matter are where best players play aka GSL. if you look at GSL statistics its actually 54% for protoss favor. all widow mine nerf is gonna do is make adept way stronger than what it already is. vs robo u dont make mines after intianl 4-6 because collosus / disruptors so they become useless. u literally only make alot of mines vs stargate play so nerfing mines will only make stargate play stronger. if what you guys want robo play to be buffed nerfing mines is not gonna change anything at all | ||
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Dracover
Australia177 Posts
On March 06 2017 05:49 The_Red_Viper wrote: Ofc they are talking about balance when the topic is with what builds you can or cannot open a game because of that particular build from terran. You apparently CANNOT open robo because you have no chance to defend it, that's a qualitative statement about balance in certain game situations. I am saying that maybe there is a way to make robo work even though these pros don't think it is possible. Not different than pros saying another race is op because they don't have a solution for it. Just a bit more specific. Great logic. I think Terran is OP against zerg because I can't open ultralisks. How ridiculous is that. Just because someone says a certain build doesn't work doesn't mean they are complaining about balance or even that there's a balance issue. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 06 2017 07:31 Dracover wrote: Great logic. I think Terran is OP against zerg because I can't open ultralisks. How ridiculous is that. Just because someone says a certain build doesn't work doesn't mean they are complaining about balance or even that there's a balance issue. You don't seem to understand what i am talking about. I am not saying that the whole matchup is imbalanced when you cannot do X against Y. I am saying that if we look at IF you can do X vs Y it is basically like talking about balance. Does it work or does it not? How could i make it work? Players saying that X will never ever work against Y is nothing more than players saying X is op (in an overall sense). It's just an opinion and therefore nothing to base your arguments on necessarily. So no i never meant it the way you took it | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
He might even be the first to win $400k in a year playing SC2. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 06 2017 08:21 jalstar wrote: TY will absolutely set the record for tournament earnings in a calendar year, he's only a few thousand dollars behind Byun's entire 2016 and it's only March. He might even be the first to win $400k in a year playing SC2. Oh yeah he only has to do decently in the tournaments this year to get that tbh. Should be doable, that 200k tournament was op | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 06 2017 08:21 jalstar wrote: TY will absolutely set the record for tournament earnings in a calendar year, he's only a few thousand dollars behind Byun's entire 2016 and it's only March. He already has it, Byun earnt 306K last year. TY has 300K already. He will get 5K when GSL S1 ends, and 10K for his spot at blizzcon. If he does nothing for the rest of the year he sets the record | ||
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Edowyth
United States183 Posts
On March 06 2017 03:05 Olli wrote: I loved when they talked about how many great Terrans Korea produces, all of whom were nowhere near as good just a while ago. I, also, found this humorous. "The four horsemen of Terran!!!" Then there's the entire casting of the finals. Everything was "can Stats stand up to the awesomeness of TY???", "TY getting so much damage done!!!" (Stats killed more workers during that period and is ahead in economy and army ...), "TY is so good! But Stats is rebuffing him well!" I have mad respect for both Artosis and Tasteless but the casting was so blatantly favoring TY that I had a hard time listening to it during that series. I just had to watch the actual numbers and games themselves to judge for myself how things were going. And, well, if Tastetosis thinks that (by their own mouths) the "best Protoss in the world" has so little chance versus one of only 4 "best Terrans in the world", that speaks for itself regarding the actual balance at the top. It's a good thing we don't have to wait another half-year for "the meta to stabilize" before getting some kind of change to help out. | ||
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Elentos
55510 Posts
On March 06 2017 09:21 Edowyth wrote: Then there's the entire casting of the finals. Everything was "can Stats stand up to the awesomeness of TY???", "TY getting so much damage done!!!" (Stats killed more workers during that period and is ahead in economy and army ...), "TY is so good! But Stats is rebuffing him well!" I have mad respect for both Artosis and Tasteless but the casting was so blatantly favoring TY that I had a hard time listening to it during that series. I just had to watch the actual numbers and games themselves to judge for myself how things were going. And, well, if Tastetosis thinks that (by their own mouths) the "best Protoss in the world" has so little chance versus one of only 4 "best Terrans in the world", that speaks for itself regarding the actual balance at the top. Tbh I thought it was way worse during the match vs ByuN. Alchemik, very fittingly, said in the LR thread that if you only had audio for the series, you would have gotten the impression ByuN was destroying Stats. Frankly this points more to an issue with the casting than anything to do with balance. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Then there's the entire casting of the finals. Everything was "can Stats stand up to the awesomeness of TY???", "TY getting so much damage done!!!" (Stats killed more workers during that period and is ahead in economy and army ...), "TY is so good! But Stats is rebuffing him well!" I have mad respect for both Artosis and Tasteless but the casting was so blatantly favoring TY that I had a hard time listening to it during that series. I just had to watch the actual numbers and games themselves to judge for myself how things were going. And, well, if Tastetosis thinks that (by their own mouths) the "best Protoss in the world" has so little chance versus one of only 4 "best Terrans in the world", that speaks for itself regarding the actual balance at the top. It's a good thing we don't have to wait another half-year for "the meta to stabilize" before getting some kind of change to help out. Casting != balance. Not saying the balance is perfect, but using the words of people who are speaking unscripted, who have their own subjective opinions, whose job it is to entertain, as an imbalance justification is really crappy evidence. On the issue of TvP at the very highest levels, it seems to be just fine actually. Stats, the best Protoss in the world, beat INnoVation 3-2, ByuN 3-1, and lost to TY 3-4. He gives at least as good as he gets against the top Terrans. Saying that 4 > 1 is a specious argument, because if Stats can stand at that level of skill it means that it is possible for a Protoss player to stand at the very highest level of Starcraft. Meaning the race's skill ceiling is balanced. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
I mean in a TvP the terran is always the good guy and the toss is the villain anyway right? :o | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
TY and ByuN are fan favourites. ByuN is a huge fan favorite. TY though I'm not so sure. Out of the top four Terrans, I think he's the least popular. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 06 2017 09:33 Elentos wrote: Tbh I thought it was way worse during the match vs ByuN. Alchemik, very fittingly, said in the LR thread that if you only had audio for the series, you would have gotten the impression ByuN was destroying Stats. Frankly this points more to an issue with the casting than anything to do with balance. I don't think it's only bias tbf. Casters will almost always hype-up the aggressor more than the defender and in TvP the aggressor is usually the terran. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 06 2017 09:43 pvsnp wrote: Casting != balance. Not saying the balance is perfect, but using the words of people who are speaking unscripted, who have their own subjective opinions, whose job it is to entertain, as an imbalance justification is really crappy evidence. On the issue of TvP at the very highest levels, it seems to be just fine actually. Stats, the best Protoss in the world, beat INnoVation 3-2, ByuN 3-1, and lost to TY 3-4. He gives at least as good as he gets against the top Terrans. Saying that 4 > 1 is a specious argument, because if Stats can stand at that level of skill it means that it is possible for a Protoss player to stand at the very highest level of Starcraft. Meaning the race's skill ceiling is balanced. Stats did well this tournament, but if you look at his recent performance against the top terrans he loses quite a bit more than he wins. Besides your argument is flawed. Fruitdealer winning the first GSL didn't mean that zerg wasn't woefully underpowered, and Taeja doing well during the blink stalker era didn't mean that TvP was balanced at all back then. | ||
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AxiomBlurr
786 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 06 2017 09:47 pvsnp wrote: ByuN is a huge fan favorite. TY though I'm not so sure. Out of the top four Terrans, I think he's the least popular. You think so? Overall? Korean audience? Western one? | ||
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Elentos
55510 Posts
On March 06 2017 10:00 The_Red_Viper wrote: You think so? Overall? Korean audience? Western one? TY is hugely popular in Korea but probably a bit under the radar for the past few years for westerners because he almost never plays outside of Korea. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
TY is hugely popular in Korea but probably a bit under the radar for the past few years for westerners because he almost never plays outside of Korea. Yeah, the context was Tastosis hype, and Tastosis casts for a Western audience. To them, TY is the least-known top Terran. Koreans are a different story entirely. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Yiome
China1687 Posts
On March 06 2017 09:54 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Stats did well this tournament, but if you look at his recent performance against the top terrans he loses quite a bit more than he wins. Besides your argument is flawed. Fruitdealer winning the first GSL didn't mean that zerg wasn't woefully underpowered, and Taeja doing well during the blink stalker era didn't mean that TvP was balanced at all back then. It is actually an aspect of competitive starcraft I enjoy: a certain player shines because the entire race is lagging behind. Puzzle during terran 1/1/1 push era and DRG's performance during the early HotS MMMM parade push are some other great examples. | ||
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