EPTTY wins IEM Katowice - Day 6 Recap - Page 3
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Cricketer12
United States13990 Posts
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On March 06 2017 04:16 The_Red_Viper wrote: Rain said terran is literally broodlord infestor, yes what would biased pros ever know  Sry but this "hey some pros said it" argument simply doesn't work even if it could be true in a specific instance. Strategies change, solutions change. Nobody knows if there is a legit counter even if they atm think there is none. With that being said, yes i also think it looks very strong. I wonder if you could do anything with warp prism micro there though? Also something i talked about in the LR thread: I wonder if it would be a good idea to make siege mode an upgrade again now that the tank is strong. Obviously it's balanced around it not being there atm in some instances, so who knows They weren't talking about balance. They were talking about whether or not that build was standard or not. | ||
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CCa1ss1e
Canada3231 Posts
Only watched a bit of IEM, but, seemed really awesome. Great job everyone and great job smix, as usual. XD | ||
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Vanillatoss
76 Posts
The group stage was soo awesome and tbh fair. You had to play 5 opponents and only those who were the best were moving forward. Round Robin soo good Not to mention about the offline qualifiers with double elimination bracket.Only those who are the best of the best not some kind of unlucky game/opponent Not so many foreigners there but at least those best of the best were able to play on the competetive level with koreans.. u gotta learn from the best dont you? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 06 2017 05:28 stuchiu wrote: They weren't talking about balance. They were talking about whether or not that build was standard or not. Ofc they are talking about balance when the topic is with what builds you can or cannot open a game because of that particular build from terran. You apparently CANNOT open robo because you have no chance to defend it, that's a qualitative statement about balance in certain game situations. I am saying that maybe there is a way to make robo work even though these pros don't think it is possible. Not different than pros saying another race is op because they don't have a solution for it. Just a bit more specific. | ||
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SCHWARZENEGGER
206 Posts
On March 06 2017 04:05 Olli wrote: Showtime and Harstem, who had it confirmed by Stats and Zest as well. But hey, you know better. stats's score in pvt is 11-9 at this iem he doesn't look like pvt whiner, compare his pvt with zest's adept phoenix 20 minutes spam, just another level, don't even mention foreigners. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16022 Posts
On March 06 2017 04:05 Olli wrote: Showtime and Harstem, who had it confirmed by Stats and Zest as well. But hey, you know better. Innovation said 7 gate adept allin is unstoppable even if you know it's coming. | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On March 06 2017 05:50 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote: stats's score in pvt is 11-9 at this iem he doesn't look like pvt whiner, compare his pvt with zest's adept phoenix 20 minutes spam, just another level, don't even mention foreigners. I'm just telling you what Stats said. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 06 2017 06:12 Charoisaur wrote: Innovation said 7 gate adept allin is unstoppable even if you know it's coming. You only need to find one more korean and two foreigners who say the same | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On March 06 2017 06:14 The_Red_Viper wrote: You only need to find one more korean and two foreigners who say the same I could probably find more, but those were all I talked to. So 100% of people I asked about this. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Ofc they are talking about balance when the topic is with what builds you can or cannot open a game because of that particular build from terran. You apparently CANNOT open robo because you have no chance to defend it, that's a qualitative statement about balance in certain game situations. I am saying that maybe there is a way to make robo work even though these pros don't think it is possible. Not different than pros saying another race is op because they don't have a solution for it. Just a bit more specific. Did nobody watch Game 6 or something? Stats very clearly made robo work there.... The winner of Stats v Ryung needs to win GSL now... Nahbro soO needs it far more. Gotta break the Kong curse and all the best Terrans are out. This is his best chance. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 06 2017 06:16 Olli wrote: I could probably find more, but those were all I talked to. So 100% of people I asked about this. I don't doubt that these people believe that and say that. I am simply arguing that their belief alone doesn't mean it is necessarily true. It's always the same in strategy games, maybe there is a way to make something specific work, maybe there is not. Again: what do you think about making siege mode an upgrade again? I guess that's too big of a change in general, i simply like there being upgrades for certain power spikes though On March 06 2017 06:16 pvsnp wrote: Did nobody watch Game 6 or something? Stats very clearly made robo work there.... Hey i am just arguing the general notion I guess they mean a more specific timing, like in the last game | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4958 Posts
Anyway GGWP TYTY | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Elentos
55561 Posts
Great finals 3 pages of tank push discussions in the recap thread You guys are so silly  | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 06 2017 06:42 Elentos wrote: Great tournament Great finals 3 pages of tank push discussions in the recap thread You guys are so silly This time it's not my fault though. I blame Olli/stuchiu | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Hey i am just arguing the general notion I guess they mean a more specific timing, like in the last game I'm agreeing with you. Opening robo is viable and we know this because Stats won a game by opening robo. TY used basically the same build (early 3 tank push) in Games 5, 6, and 7. It worked in Games 5 and 7 and failed in Game 6. The reasons for it working and failing should be pretty obvious for anyone who watched the series. Game 5: TY kills 10 probes using hellions/reaper+mine drop. This puts Stats on the back foot and he fails to contest TY's push until TY has literally sieged his natural. Stats was never going to win after that as long as TY didn't throw. Game 6: Stats defends far better, deflecting the mine drop entirely and losing a total of 2 probes instead of 10. Then he pushes out onto the map, meets TY's push (identical comp to the last game) on open ground by the watchtower and easily wins the fight. He goes on to win the game for reasons everyone knows (forge snipe into no ground army). Game 7: TY changes his build by replacing the Medivac with a Raven and uses it to snipe the Observer. Stats manages to intercept the push like last game but he has only one Colossus instead of two and three Stalkers instead of six. Unlike the previous two games, TY keeps the Liberator with his army instead of sending it to harass the mineral lines. Also he has autoturrets. Therefore the situation is the Game 6 with less army for Stats and more for TY. It shouldn't be a surprise that Stats has to retreat. He retreats, TY sets up a hard contain, and it's Game 5 all over again with the same result. And there you have it. Robo openings are viable assuming you counter Terran's push like Stats did in Game 6. Playing greedy will get you killed by this push, taking too much early damage will get you killed by this push (just like every other well-executed early push, what a surprise!). Maps also play a big role; Cactus and Belshir are good maps to set up hard contains while Honorgrounds is not. Certainly some builds are more viable than others, certainly some require more skill to pull off, certainly the 3-tank push is a strong build. But it is not broken, it is certainly not unbeatable, and anyone claiming as much is mistaken or lying. (Not my word but the evidence of Stats winning should make this obvious) | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2655 Posts
On March 06 2017 06:52 pvsnp wrote: I'm agreeing with you. Opening robo is viable and we know this because Stats won a game by opening robo. TY used basically the same build (early 3 tank push) in Games 5, 6, and 7. It worked in Games 5 and 7 and failed in Game 6. The reasons for it working and failing should be pretty obvious for anyone who watched the series. Game 5: TY kills 10 probes using hellions/reaper+mine drop. This puts Stats on the back foot and he fails to contest TY's push until TY has literally sieged his natural. Stats was never going to win after that as long as TY didn't throw. Game 6: Stats defends far better, deflecting the mine drop entirely and losing a total of 2 probes instead of 10. Then he pushes out onto the map, meets TY's push (identical comp to the last game) on open ground by the watchtower and easily wins the fight. He goes on to win the game for reasons everyone knows (forge snipe into no ground army). Game 7: TY changes his build by replacing the Medivac with a Raven and uses it to snipe the Observer. Stats manages to intercept the push like last game but he has only one Colossus instead of two and three Stalkers instead of six. Unlike the previous two games, TY keeps the Liberator with his army instead of sending it to harass the mineral lines. Also he has autoturrets. Therefore the situation is the Game 6 with less army for Stats and more for TY. It shouldn't be a surprise that Stats has to retreat. He retreats, TY sets up a hard contain, and it's Game 5 all over again with the same result. And there you have it. Robo openings are viable assuming you counter Terran's push like Stats did in Game 6. Playing greedy will get you killed by this push, taking too much early damage will get you killed by this push (just like every other well-executed early push, what a surprise!). Maps also play a big role; Cactus and Belshir are good maps to set up hard contains while Honorgrounds is not. Certainly some builds are more viable than others, certainly some require more skill to pull off, certainly the 3-tank push is a strong build. But it is not broken, it is certainly not unbeatable, and anyone claiming as much is mistaken or lying. (Not my word but the evidence of Stats winning should make this obvious) Greath explanation, the funny thing is that they completely forget about game 4 wich has the same exact situation but reversed. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17183 Posts
all the top finishers and David Kim.. take a bow. On March 06 2017 06:18 The_Red_Viper wrote: Again: what do you think about making siege mode an upgrade again? I guess that's too big of a change in general, i simply like there being upgrades for certain power spikes though if TvP is consistently Terran favoured at the highest level and at the 4 to 8 minute mark Protoss is particularly vulnerable this might be a good idea. Notice all the IFs though. | ||
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