On January 04 2017 06:15 Advantageous wrote: PPD has no idea what he's doing. If he was going to disband the SC2 division because he thinks the game's scene is no longer lucrative, the best case would be to at least communicate his thoughts. This douche just did nothing and let the clock run out, until the SC2 division at EG was fed up with not knowing what's going on. Absolutely absurd. It should be known that whatever the task, it should be left up to someone with the knowledge and skills; and in this case, PPD is a player, he has no skills in managing an organization outside of a game. Should've just hired a CEO or manager instead of pissing on some of the oldest EG players that contributed to the success EG became.
Have you followed competitive dota at all? PPD has more of a business mind than Garfield ever had. Cutting sc2 is the smartest thing he could have done. When was the last time HuK contributed literally any income to the team?
You can't run a business on an old legacy man, thas not how it works.
I don't follow competitive dota very much, but what did PPD ever do on the business side of it?
And it's not like Incontrol or Huk could possibly cost them that much money. Sport team keep old player longer then they should base on their on the field performance all the time it does them publicity and help breaking new player into the team.
But most of all you don't ditch some of your all star player in a twitter video (Momo and Justin wong are still high placer in fighting game tournament), there is a reason why sport team retire the number of their best player, do video about them, invite them to matches and invitational, ect... If you want to build a stable brand across decades you have to make your presence across time, build your "legacy". They are clearly not the only esport team to do that but I would have hope that EG would have understand the need for this.
What blows my mind is not that HuK or InControl got cut with such a short video, but that fucking Justin Wong and Momochi got cut the same way when they are still very relevant in the FGC, and JWong even streams quite regularly. AND that PPMD didn't get cut at the same time despite being in (arguably) the same genre of fighting games.
On January 04 2017 08:23 t3tsubo wrote: What blows my mind is not that HuK or InControl got cut with such a short video, but that fucking Justin Wong and Momochi got cut the same way when they are still very relevant in the FGC, and JWong even streams quite regularly. AND that PPMD didn't get cut at the same time despite being in (arguably) the same genre of fighting games.
PPMD probably don't cost nearly the same and smash is doing well so it make sense, with Marvel coming out player like JWong, Eduardo, Ricky and Chris G who were all some of the great Marvel 2 and 3 players probably saw their value go up a lot (oppose to Momochi who as far as I know only play SF), since their is a very high chance that they could dominate or at least have huge stream number in the early day of the game. Chris G is probably the least expensive of all since he is the least well know as the other two (despite being the evo champ in MVC3) and Ricky is to good to be cut right now.
So I would guess that PPD want to keep his door open in case Marvel become huge, but FG are probably not high in his priority.
It could also be completely different reason, it's not like I had any source on the subject.
I do not really know the story here, but what Twitch is saying sounds like "We are unable to build a sustainable business model here, the costs and risks are too high, the brand names are of some value, we are transferring them to players in exchange for salaries, premiums bonuses outstanding or due in the future under the current contracts". Players, who earn most accept the stake and risk involved. I do not thinkine it was a gift. HuK appears not to understand what has happened. But again, I do not know, if this is really the case.
I loved EG for many years but I have to say, ever since Garfield left the organization has not been the same. If what Huk and Incontrol are saying about being tossed aside at the last minute with no notice (and why should I doubt them?) is true, then I cannot find words adequate to convey my disappointment with this new EG (i'm looking at you ppd). Huk made waves in SC2 back in the day, and I know that he hasn't been posting results nowadays but he could have been given a little more notice. It's not like he wouldn't be understanding...
But Incontrol? That the management didn't talk to him at all fucking pisses me off. He gave his fucking heart and soul to EG...
Let me quote iNcontroL during my leave of EG. He said to me (paraphrasing), "Eric, we are gamers. We play a video game. We don't deserve that fucking much and should be happy with what we get".
I was told this over probably 1 / 10,000th of what you ended up getting and I agree with him.
When I read your statement (and I read it all), I can't help but come to the understanding that you think you deserve more than what you got when I see it as the complete opposite. EG was overly fair to you including during this transition.
They kept you around much longer than nearly every other team would and paid you higher than most other teams would. The fact that they didn't keep you in the loop when they were planning on disbanding your game and removing you from the team shouldn't shock you. It's a standard business practice and EG is a business, not a family. You were an asset to that business and as a player for a game they no longer support as the game is not financially viable enough to their sponsors or them, you are useless to them. That's how it goes.
Good luck learning a new game or learning new skills to propel you into your next job.
As a side note G5, I feel like the least they could have done for these players was to make a more respectful public statement than what they did (and I mean ALL the players).
It really doesn't take too much show a little more respect especially when eSport companies have actually professionalized far more over the years.
The one thing that gets me personally is how EG went from being one of the most professional organizations, with some of the best PR out there to where they are today.
It feels like they've really fallen off in terms of overall quality. I don't care that they make business decisions - they've always had to make them. The fact is that EG used to make the decisions and communicate them so much more effectively and professionally than they are now.
Let me just point out that when I was on EG, they would land new sponsors like MSI Computers and various others and put out big press releases and state how all the players were getting free gaming laptops from their new sponsors and stuff like that and never give them to us. Every time we would see that we'd get excited and ask when we were getting whatever it was and they'd just tell us it was a PR stunt and if we said anything bad about EG they'd sue us as our contract states we can't say anything bad about EG. That was why I left and I wouldn't call that professional communication to the players or the public.
In fact, I asked to be released from the team, they agreed, so they removed me from the roster, said publicly they were parting ways with me, then kept me on contract without telling me. I had to find that out by other team managers whom were interested in signing me because EG directly contacted those team managers and threatened to sue them if they signed me. They've never been too "professional" communicating in my experience.
Lost a lot of interest in SC2 and EG SC2 for a while, and baffled why guys like HuK never did better to promote himself more or Incontrol going further expanding his brand into other territories.
But it is really sad to see how this has all been handled considering I got into SC2 e-sports a lot in part because of EG. How guys like HuK (I remember when he rarely streamed from Korea, and hit 10k+ viewers way back) and Incontrol (this guy exemplifies leadership and strong skills in the public eye) just get disrespected like that is just awful, and disrespectful by those who run EG now.
I love watching DOTA 2 and respect PPD as a player, but If it's true that it's him that called these shots, then shame on him
I have nothing but mad respect for men like HuK + iNc who have made sacrifices that most won't ever be able to understand in driving e-sports to where it is today. What EG has done in time will prove to be wrong. Without StarCraft there probably wouldn't be nearly as lucrative Dota or LoL competitive scenes. Have some appreciation for the pillars of e-sports that passed the torch forward and honor those that came before.
Thank You HuK and iNc along with the many others for your involvement and commitment to stabilizing major gaming teams as legitimate North American entities along with your love for the game that continues to drive e-sports forward.
It makes sense to get rid of players when you get rid of a game, a sad but true fact is that a team is a business and Huk wasnt really providing anything to make them want to keep him. Incontrol knew he was getting kicked for over a month and realease a video about it, Huk probably did too. PPD definitely should have spent more than 10 seconds talking about them though, that was a really bad way to go about it.
Regarding Justin Wong, that guy is a god. A literal god. For this ppd guy in his video to barely even mention his accomplishments, of which they are myriad, is a travesty. I was there when he did his godlike comeback in MVC2 vs Yipes back in 07 when he was down to just Cyke vs an entire close to full health MSP.
Wong is the kind of guy who not only was the GOAT in MVC2, he was a serious contender in any fighting game because he was a genius and had such a deep understanding of fundamentals. dude does money matches with low tier characters (which are NOT competitive in MVC2, forget it) and makes mad money. most people remember him because he was on the receiving end of a Daigo comeback beatdown, but J Wong has had plenty of god mode comebacks. The yipes one like I mentioned.
LEGENDARY 1 pixel comeback with cable
Wong is on another level. What are they thinking letting him go? Probably couldn't afford him
On January 04 2017 05:27 JimSocks wrote: If our jobs let us go, are we getting big parties?
Actually, its customary to have a going away party, even for people who underperformed. A nice gesture.
Let me quote iNcontroL during my leave of EG. He said to me (paraphrasing), "Eric, we are gamers. We play a video game. We don't deserve that fucking much and should be happy with what we get".
I was told this over probably 1 / 10,000th of what you ended up getting and I agree with him.
When I read your statement (and I read it all), I can't help but come to the understanding that you think you deserve more than what you got when I see it as the complete opposite. EG was overly fair to you including during this transition.
They kept you around much longer than nearly every other team would and paid you higher than most other teams would. The fact that they didn't keep you in the loop when they were planning on disbanding your game and removing you from the team shouldn't shock you. It's a standard business practice and EG is a business, not a family. You were an asset to that business and as a player for a game they no longer support as the game is not financially viable enough to their sponsors or them, you are useless to them. That's how it goes.
Good luck learning a new game or learning new skills to propel you into your next job.
As a side note G5, I feel like the least they could have done for these players was to make a more respectful public statement than what they did (and I mean ALL the players).
It really doesn't take too much show a little more respect especially when eSport companies have actually professionalized far more over the years.
The one thing that gets me personally is how EG went from being one of the most professional organizations, with some of the best PR out there to where they are today.
It feels like they've really fallen off in terms of overall quality. I don't care that they make business decisions - they've always had to make them. The fact is that EG used to make the decisions and communicate them so much more effectively and professionally than they are now.
Let me jut point out that when I was on EG, they would land new sponsors like MSI Computers and various others and put out big press releases and state how all the players were getting free gaming laptops from their new sponsors and stuff like that and never give them to us. Every time we would see that we'd get excited and ask when we were getting whatever it was and they'd just tell us it was a PR stunt and if we said anything bad about EG they'd sue us as our contract states we can't say anything bad about EG. That was why I left and I wouldn't call that professional communication to the players or the public.
In fact, I asked to be released from the team, they agreed, so they removed me from the roster, said publicly they were parting ways with me, then kept me on contract without telling me. I had to find that out by other team managers whom were interested in signing me because EG directly contacted those team managers and threatened to sue them if they signed me. They've never been too "professional" communicating in my experience.
Oh, the skeletons are coming out of the closet now :D
On January 04 2017 02:26 Beelzebub1 wrote: The guy has hardly streamed or been relevant since WoL, I'm not sure why he's disappointed about anything, the guy pretty much got paid to do nothing.
On top of this he was always a low tier foreigner, never competitive on the scene even against other foreigners.
Best of luck to you HuK, nothing against you but meh, you should have retired years ago.
When HuK got signed from TL to EG he was one of the best foreign players. He's one of the worst examples to claim to have been low tier and uncompetetive. Check your facts: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HuK
I also don't follow your logic where HuK being a nonfactor in recent years disallows him from having an opinion on recent developments or why he wouldn't be allowed to be disappointed by them. Weigh an opinion on it's merit, not on how you perceive the person that voiced it.
One of the worst examples to claim for being low tier and noncompetitive? His last achievement was in 2014, getting 3 - 1'd and taking second place at a low tier tournament against Major who is also a low tier foreign player. He also has a couple of low tier tournaments from the same year. His only real crowning moments were his victories back in 2011 against MC and Naniwa, that is a long long time ago now, HuK has been irrelevant in the scene for multiple years now.
Yea he was a top foreigner in WoL but you don't get paid for being the top 6 years ago and then for the last 2 years doing practically nothing.
I mean you literally said, word for word, "he was always a low tier foreigner" and now you're backtracking to say "yea he was a top foreigner in WoL"? (which at least is factually true)
Got a brainy one on our hands.
He was always low tier just by being a foreigner alone, what foreigners haven't been low tier players besides the greats like Nerchio, Stephano, Snute, Naniwa, Mana? I mean sure theres a few who had relative success vs. high tier players like the Koreans or the semi Koreans like Violet/Polt besides them but that's pretty much it and HuK isnt one of him. If Koreans destroy you on the regular your low tier, even if your top tier among the low tier people, your still low.
Apologies for being so literal, HuK was solid for 2 years of his career then became kind of a back of the scenes kinda guy, stopped streaming, stopped making appearances, piss off with your sarcasm chump.
Huk had it good compared to most pros. He was a mid-tier foreigner that got paid to produce mediocre results, free large house to live in (unlike Korean pros with their small apartments), got commercial spots from being on the team and was flown to the four corners of the world with room and board on EG's dime dozens of times. SC2 is on the decline and EG hasn't had any contenders in the game for years. It is what it is.
On January 04 2017 02:26 Beelzebub1 wrote: The guy has hardly streamed or been relevant since WoL, I'm not sure why he's disappointed about anything, the guy pretty much got paid to do nothing.
On top of this he was always a low tier foreigner, never competitive on the scene even against other foreigners.
Best of luck to you HuK, nothing against you but meh, you should have retired years ago.
When HuK got signed from TL to EG he was one of the best foreign players. He's one of the worst examples to claim to have been low tier and uncompetetive. Check your facts: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HuK
I also don't follow your logic where HuK being a nonfactor in recent years disallows him from having an opinion on recent developments or why he wouldn't be allowed to be disappointed by them. Weigh an opinion on it's merit, not on how you perceive the person that voiced it.
One of the worst examples to claim for being low tier and noncompetitive? His last achievement was in 2014, getting 3 - 1'd and taking second place at a low tier tournament against Major who is also a low tier foreign player. He also has a couple of low tier tournaments from the same year. His only real crowning moments were his victories back in 2011 against MC and Naniwa, that is a long long time ago now, HuK has been irrelevant in the scene for multiple years now.
Yea he was a top foreigner in WoL but you don't get paid for being the top 6 years ago and then for the last 2 years doing practically nothing.
I mean you literally said, word for word, "he was always a low tier foreigner" and now you're backtracking to say "yea he was a top foreigner in WoL"? (which at least is factually true)
Got a brainy one on our hands.
He was always low tier just by being a foreigner alone, what foreigners haven't been low tier players besides the greats like Nerchio, Stephano, Snute, Naniwa, Mana? I mean sure theres a few who had relative success vs. high tier players like the Koreans or the semi Koreans like Violet/Polt besides them but that's pretty much it and HuK isnt one of him. If Koreans destroy you on the regular your low tier, even if your top tier among the low tier people, your still low.
Apologies for being so literal, HuK was solid for 2 years of his career then became kind of a back of the scenes kinda guy, stopped streaming, stopped making appearances, piss off with your sarcasm chump.
several Code S appearances = low tier pro?
Never seen Nerchio Mana or Snute in Code S.
According to Liquipedia he is actually the last foreigner to make it to Code S. Edit: Seems Scarlett qualified for season 1 2017.
On January 04 2017 10:56 Devolved wrote: Huk had it good compared to most pros. He was a mid-tier foreigner that got paid to produce mediocre results, free large house to live in (unlike Korean pros with their small apartments), got commercial spots from being on the team and was flown to the four corners of the world with room and board on EG's dime dozens of times. SC2 is on the decline and EG hasn't had any contenders in the game for years. It is what it is.
This is not about the decision to end the sc2 division, it is about professionalism and transparency with those who deserve it. There shouldn't be any debate about those being qualities of a good business.
On January 04 2017 12:15 zealotstim wrote: This is not about the decision to end the sc2 division, it is about professionalism and transparency with those who deserve it. There shouldn't be any debate about those being qualities of a good business.
Just because you think someone deserves something does not mean they actually deserve it. It's just your opinion. I'm sure EG would have bothered to inform Huk if they had deemed it necessary. They did not. As Devolved put it, Huk had it good for someone so mediocre producing so mediocre competitive results, so I'm surprised some of you guys are surprised some of us think of this whining of his as ungrateful.
On January 04 2017 10:56 Devolved wrote: Huk had it good compared to most pros. He was a mid-tier foreigner that got paid to produce mediocre results, free large house to live in (unlike Korean pros with their small apartments), got commercial spots from being on the team and was flown to the four corners of the world with room and board on EG's dime dozens of times. SC2 is on the decline and EG hasn't had any contenders in the game for years. It is what it is.
You said it best..
because those kespa teams treating their players like slaves is the actual ideal we are trying to reach here...
On January 04 2017 08:23 t3tsubo wrote: What blows my mind is not that HuK or InControl got cut with such a short video, but that fucking Justin Wong and Momochi got cut the same way when they are still very relevant in the FGC, and JWong even streams quite regularly. AND that PPMD didn't get cut at the same time despite being in (arguably) the same genre of fighting games.
I think it's more likely that Justin Wong and Momochi left of their own accord.
For the sake of the argument, how much do you think EG was worth before equity was given to the players. Lets say 10 mil - that including all assets. I highly doubt they had 7 figures of disposable funds in a bank account. Anyways, I'm trying to think of what HuK could've received as share and if that would've made any difference. Of course its better to have equity than not, but if he got like 2% (which might be actually optimistic) its not like he was set for life and or would've had a large enough share to have any say in the org.
EPT
