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Pretty annoying, imo, to see people "understand" match-fixing because it pays well.
It's incredibly fucking destructive to the scene, it's destructive to the player (Life can't play anymore), it's destructive to team and sponsors.
Even if you don't get caught, it's destructive. Low risk? Fuck that. More like low integrity. Life is at the top and deserves to be there due to his skill, but match-fixing destroys the very socle upon which he stood. It's fucking stupid and not at all understandable, much less excusable.
If crime were "understandable", then we wouldn't have laws which prevent it, would be? There's nothing to understand here, it's just a shitty, arrogant and low-life decision to make. I can't fathom how people down-play something so serious and claim it to be "understandable". there's nothing to be understood about destroying Starcraft.
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On April 25 2016 13:41 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 12:15 Doodsmack wrote:
ITT: people excuse matchfixing because "it's reasonable to do something illegal if you don't think you'll get caught".
Yes it was incredibly stupid for Life to do, and yes you are incredibly stupid to defend him. I'm not excusing him, but I understand why, especially with the money involved and the current WCS
I just couldn't wait for someone to shit on WCS, even if the system was announced six months after Life's fixed games (that prosecutor knows of). Wow. Do you still understand?
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Well if we're going to find excuses for match-fixers, not that we should, I would argue that the lack of fresh opportunities for Korean pro-gamers who get discriminated by the system due to their nationality and nothing else (by being banned from participating in previously open and international events such as IEM or Dreamhack), then yeah, that could be a reason.
The new WCS system is objectively worse for progamers who are Korean, though then again it has little, if anything, to do with the topic at hand which is match-fixing.
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On April 25 2016 16:13 Incognoto wrote:
Pretty annoying, imo, to see people "understand" match-fixing because it pays well.
It's incredibly fucking destructive to the scene, it's destructive to the player (Life can't play anymore), it's destructive to team and sponsors.
Even if you don't get caught, it's destructive. Low risk? Fuck that. More like low integrity. Life is at the top and deserves to be there due to his skill, but match-fixing destroys the very socle upon which he stood. It's fucking stupid and not at all understandable, much less excusable.
If crime were "understandable", then we wouldn't have laws which prevent it, would be? There's nothing to understand here, it's just a shitty, arrogant and low-life decision to make. I can't fathom how people down-play something so serious and claim it to be "understandable". there's nothing to be understood about destroying Starcraft.
If crimes couldn't be understood, they couldn't be fought efficiently. Since the dawn of times, History shows us that even though laws exist, people break the law. That's why you need to understand why people break the law, because that allows you to prevent future crimes and make the law more adequate. That attitude that crimes should not be understood because they are crimes is some XIXth century shit. What's next, we should not talk about sex because it is sex? I'm not sure taboos lead to a healthy society.
Additionally, understanding something doesn't mean that you consider it "good". Nazism can be understood (and had to be understood in order to get an efficient denazification), as in, people now understand why it was created, why it gained popularity, how it came to power, what are the majors tenets of its ideology, what led to its downfall, etc. That, however, doesn't make the actions themselves OK.
So now, you can be all mad and stuff, blame Life as if he woke up one morning being all like "Hey ! This scene is so pure and perfect, it's disgusting. Let's matchfix a bit so that I can be a great evil and kill ESPORTS !", or acknowledge the fact that cheating is inherent to the human being, and even more so in a competitive setup, thus that the issue here is widespread. And I have no idea what you're talking about with "integrity" ; we're talking (e)sports here. Anyone who's been a bit deep within a sports scene will know what I'm talking about ; integrity only exists in the spectator's eyes.
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On April 25 2016 17:06 Incognoto wrote:
Well if we're going to find excuses for match-fixers, not that we should, I would argue that the lack of fresh opportunities for Korean pro-gamers who get discriminated by the system due to their nationality and nothing else (by being banned from participating in previously open and international events such as IEM or Dreamhack), then yeah, that could be a reason.
The new WCS system is objectively worse for progamers who are Korean, though then again it has little, if anything, to do with the topic at hand which is match-fixing.
This could stand for B., but he rarely traveled outside anyway.
L. fixed his matches 1/2 a year before the new WCS was born.
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France13011 Posts
On April 25 2016 14:04 FFGenerations wrote:
i dont play sc2 so im just wondering... how did he fix the games to ensure that he lost 100% whilst being 100% undetectable?
I only watched Bbyong's fixed game vs DRGLing and all he had to do was going bio and micro badly, since it's hard to micro it looked legit. Plus he was like "ooh I'm slow so I prefer mech" in interviews to cover up I guess.
As for Life he wasn't 100% undetectable, losing to SjoW... It's more like people don't want him to be a matchfixer so they lie to themselves when he plays utterly bad.
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On April 25 2016 18:23 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 16:13 Incognoto wrote:
Pretty annoying, imo, to see people "understand" match-fixing because it pays well.
It's incredibly fucking destructive to the scene, it's destructive to the player (Life can't play anymore), it's destructive to team and sponsors.
Even if you don't get caught, it's destructive. Low risk? Fuck that. More like low integrity. Life is at the top and deserves to be there due to his skill, but match-fixing destroys the very socle upon which he stood. It's fucking stupid and not at all understandable, much less excusable.
If crime were "understandable", then we wouldn't have laws which prevent it, would be? There's nothing to understand here, it's just a shitty, arrogant and low-life decision to make. I can't fathom how people down-play something so serious and claim it to be "understandable". there's nothing to be understood about destroying Starcraft. If crimes couldn't be understood, they couldn't be fought efficiently. Since the dawn of times, History shows us that even though laws exist, people break the law. That's why you need to understand why people break the law, because that allows you to prevent future crimes and make the law more adequate. That attitude that crimes should not be understood because they are crimes is some XIXth century shit. What's next, we should not talk about sex because it is sex? I'm not sure taboos lead to a healthy society. Additionally, understanding something doesn't mean that you consider it "good". Nazism can be understood (and had to be understood in order to get an efficient denazification), as in, people now understand why it was created, why it gained popularity, how it came to power, what are the majors tenets of its ideology, what led to its downfall, etc. That, however, doesn't make the actions themselves OK. So now, you can be all mad and stuff, blame Life as if he woke up one morning being all like "Hey ! This scene is so pure and perfect, it's disgusting. Let's matchfix a bit so that I can be a great evil and kill ESPORTS !", or acknowledge the fact that cheating is inherent to the human being, and even more so in a competitive setup, thus that the issue here is widespread. And I have no idea what you're talking about with "integrity" ; we're talking (e)sports here. Anyone who's been a bit deep within a sports scene will know what I'm talking about ; integrity only exists in the spectator's eyes.
A fair enough assessment, though in many cases people are looking to understand the reasoning behind a crime too far.
In the case of Life, the reason is simple: he believes that he's above everyone else, thus does not mind cheating. This goes for most criminals, really. That goes for Nazis as well, who did what they did basing their values on the stupid notion that they are superior to everyone else. I don't see any other reason than selfish arrogance, though feel free to prove me wrong.
Integrity is not something non-trivial, it's something which has immense value. If you have integrity, you do not cheat or break the law; it goes beyond esports. Perhaps the better word here would have been humility: not thinking that you're above others. Perhaps both?
Still, you brought up a fair point, which I cannot ignore. Please also consider mine.
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On April 25 2016 12:15 Doodsmack wrote:
ITT: people excuse matchfixing because "it's reasonable to do something illegal if you don't think you'll get caught".
Yes it was incredibly stupid for Life to do, and yes you are incredibly stupid to defend him.
this. i cant believe there are actually people defending him.
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On April 25 2016 19:04 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 18:23 OtherWorld wrote:On April 25 2016 16:13 Incognoto wrote:
Pretty annoying, imo, to see people "understand" match-fixing because it pays well.
It's incredibly fucking destructive to the scene, it's destructive to the player (Life can't play anymore), it's destructive to team and sponsors.
Even if you don't get caught, it's destructive. Low risk? Fuck that. More like low integrity. Life is at the top and deserves to be there due to his skill, but match-fixing destroys the very socle upon which he stood. It's fucking stupid and not at all understandable, much less excusable.
If crime were "understandable", then we wouldn't have laws which prevent it, would be? There's nothing to understand here, it's just a shitty, arrogant and low-life decision to make. I can't fathom how people down-play something so serious and claim it to be "understandable". there's nothing to be understood about destroying Starcraft. If crimes couldn't be understood, they couldn't be fought efficiently. Since the dawn of times, History shows us that even though laws exist, people break the law. That's why you need to understand why people break the law, because that allows you to prevent future crimes and make the law more adequate. That attitude that crimes should not be understood because they are crimes is some XIXth century shit. What's next, we should not talk about sex because it is sex? I'm not sure taboos lead to a healthy society. Additionally, understanding something doesn't mean that you consider it "good". Nazism can be understood (and had to be understood in order to get an efficient denazification), as in, people now understand why it was created, why it gained popularity, how it came to power, what are the majors tenets of its ideology, what led to its downfall, etc. That, however, doesn't make the actions themselves OK. So now, you can be all mad and stuff, blame Life as if he woke up one morning being all like "Hey ! This scene is so pure and perfect, it's disgusting. Let's matchfix a bit so that I can be a great evil and kill ESPORTS !", or acknowledge the fact that cheating is inherent to the human being, and even more so in a competitive setup, thus that the issue here is widespread. And I have no idea what you're talking about with "integrity" ; we're talking (e)sports here. Anyone who's been a bit deep within a sports scene will know what I'm talking about ; integrity only exists in the spectator's eyes. A fair enough assessment, though in many cases people are looking to understand the reasoning behind a crime too far. In the case of Life, the reason is simple: he believes that he's above everyone else, thus does not mind cheating. This goes for most criminals, really. That goes for Nazis as well, who did what they did basing their values on the stupid notion that they are superior to everyone else. I don't see any other reason than selfish arrogance, though feel free to prove me wrong. Integrity is not something non-trivial, it's something which has immense value. If you have integrity, you do not cheat or break the law; it goes beyond esports. Perhaps the better word here would have been humility: not thinking that you're above others. Perhaps both? Still, you brought up a fair point, which I cannot ignore. Please also consider mine.
I understand the need to have a scene where cheating is, if not nonexistent, at least not apparent, because there's indeed a risk of this scene taking a big blow sponsor- and viewership-wise (we can look a pro cycling as an example of this). I also understand that from the point of view of a fan, it's never cool to see cheating in the scene you support, especially when the cheaters are not low-tier player but widely recognized stars we were used to admire.
However I don't think that saying that Life did this just because he was arrogant is accurate, though it definitely played a role, in the sense that anyone who breaks the law is "arrogant" enough to be persuaded that they won't be caught (most of the times, sometimes you break the law while acknowledging not that you might get caught, but that you will get caught). It is necessary to explore others reasons behind his decision, such as financiary reasons (i.e. would he have done it if it payed $6K instead of $60K? If he had more opportunities to gain personal sponsors? If he hadn't spent all his earnings on stuff? etc) or systemic reasons (it is much, much easier for an individual to decide to cheat if cheating is widespread : in other words, if matchfixing concerns way more than just 4 progamers, Life's decision appears more understandable - or less "stupid", if you want), because if you limit yourself to personal reasons (ie Life lacking humility), you'll likely never fix the issue, unless you monitor progamers H24 7/7 to make sure they never talk to brokers.
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On April 25 2016 19:25 ZertoN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 12:15 Doodsmack wrote:
ITT: people excuse matchfixing because "it's reasonable to do something illegal if you don't think you'll get caught".
Yes it was incredibly stupid for Life to do, and yes you are incredibly stupid to defend him. this. i cant believe there are actually people defending him.
Once again, no one here is defending him. What some people, including me, are doing, however, is (a) trying to find rational reasons explaining his behavior and (b) refuting the fact that he did this because "he's stupid", which is only a very little part of the truth, and is nothing more than a posture that allows you to refuse to think - and I don't like the posture of refusing to think.
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On April 25 2016 18:23 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 16:13 Incognoto wrote:
Pretty annoying, imo, to see people "understand" match-fixing because it pays well.
It's incredibly fucking destructive to the scene, it's destructive to the player (Life can't play anymore), it's destructive to team and sponsors.
Even if you don't get caught, it's destructive. Low risk? Fuck that. More like low integrity. Life is at the top and deserves to be there due to his skill, but match-fixing destroys the very socle upon which he stood. It's fucking stupid and not at all understandable, much less excusable.
If crime were "understandable", then we wouldn't have laws which prevent it, would be? There's nothing to understand here, it's just a shitty, arrogant and low-life decision to make. I can't fathom how people down-play something so serious and claim it to be "understandable". there's nothing to be understood about destroying Starcraft. If crimes couldn't be understood, they couldn't be fought efficiently. Since the dawn of times, History shows us that even though laws exist, people break the law. That's why you need to understand why people break the law, because that allows you to prevent future crimes and make the law more adequate. That attitude that crimes should not be understood because they are crimes is some XIXth century shit. What's next, we should not talk about sex because it is sex? I'm not sure taboos lead to a healthy society. Additionally, understanding something doesn't mean that you consider it "good". Nazism can be understood (and had to be understood in order to get an efficient denazification), as in, people now understand why it was created, why it gained popularity, how it came to power, what are the majors tenets of its ideology, what led to its downfall, etc. That, however, doesn't make the actions themselves OK. So now, you can be all mad and stuff, blame Life as if he woke up one morning being all like "Hey ! This scene is so pure and perfect, it's disgusting. Let's matchfix a bit so that I can be a great evil and kill ESPORTS !", or acknowledge the fact that cheating is inherent to the human being, and even more so in a competitive setup, thus that the issue here is widespread. And I have no idea what you're talking about with "integrity" ; we're talking (e)sports here. Anyone who's been a bit deep within a sports scene will know what I'm talking about ; integrity only exists in the spectator's eyes.
Absolutely beautifully said, in all paragraphs.
Finally, finally, someone actually SEES the big picture far beyond the usual dogma!
On April 25 2016 19:37 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 19:25 ZertoN wrote:On April 25 2016 12:15 Doodsmack wrote:
ITT: people excuse matchfixing because "it's reasonable to do something illegal if you don't think you'll get caught".
Yes it was incredibly stupid for Life to do, and yes you are incredibly stupid to defend him. this. i cant believe there are actually people defending him. Once again, no one here is defending him. What some people, including me, are doing, however, is (a) trying to find rational reasons explaining his behavior and (b) refuting the fact that he did this because "he's stupid", which is only a very little part of the truth, and is nothing more than a posture that allows you to refuse to think - and I don't like the posture of refusing to think.
A thousand times THIS!
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France13011 Posts
On April 25 2016 19:37 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 19:25 ZertoN wrote:On April 25 2016 12:15 Doodsmack wrote:
ITT: people excuse matchfixing because "it's reasonable to do something illegal if you don't think you'll get caught".
Yes it was incredibly stupid for Life to do, and yes you are incredibly stupid to defend him. this. i cant believe there are actually people defending him. Once again, no one here is defending him. What some people, including me, are doing, however, is (a) trying to find rational reasons explaining his behavior and (b) refuting the fact that he did this because "he's stupid", which is only a very little part of the truth, and is nothing more than a posture that allows you to refuse to think - and I don't like the posture of refusing to think.
a) money
./thread?
b) ok?
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On April 25 2016 19:57 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 19:37 OtherWorld wrote:On April 25 2016 19:25 ZertoN wrote:On April 25 2016 12:15 Doodsmack wrote:
ITT: people excuse matchfixing because "it's reasonable to do something illegal if you don't think you'll get caught".
Yes it was incredibly stupid for Life to do, and yes you are incredibly stupid to defend him. this. i cant believe there are actually people defending him. Once again, no one here is defending him. What some people, including me, are doing, however, is (a) trying to find rational reasons explaining his behavior and (b) refuting the fact that he did this because "he's stupid", which is only a very little part of the truth, and is nothing more than a posture that allows you to refuse to think - and I don't like the posture of refusing to think. a) money ./thread? b) ok?
As I already said, money is not all, though it is a significant part. You also have to factor in potential systemic reasons, because you won't fix the problem the same way if only 4 progamers are concerned by matchfixing in the Korean SC2 scene or if half the scene is doing it.
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On April 25 2016 19:35 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 19:04 Incognoto wrote:On April 25 2016 18:23 OtherWorld wrote:On April 25 2016 16:13 Incognoto wrote:
Pretty annoying, imo, to see people "understand" match-fixing because it pays well.
It's incredibly fucking destructive to the scene, it's destructive to the player (Life can't play anymore), it's destructive to team and sponsors.
Even if you don't get caught, it's destructive. Low risk? Fuck that. More like low integrity. Life is at the top and deserves to be there due to his skill, but match-fixing destroys the very socle upon which he stood. It's fucking stupid and not at all understandable, much less excusable.
If crime were "understandable", then we wouldn't have laws which prevent it, would be? There's nothing to understand here, it's just a shitty, arrogant and low-life decision to make. I can't fathom how people down-play something so serious and claim it to be "understandable". there's nothing to be understood about destroying Starcraft. If crimes couldn't be understood, they couldn't be fought efficiently. Since the dawn of times, History shows us that even though laws exist, people break the law. That's why you need to understand why people break the law, because that allows you to prevent future crimes and make the law more adequate. That attitude that crimes should not be understood because they are crimes is some XIXth century shit. What's next, we should not talk about sex because it is sex? I'm not sure taboos lead to a healthy society. Additionally, understanding something doesn't mean that you consider it "good". Nazism can be understood (and had to be understood in order to get an efficient denazification), as in, people now understand why it was created, why it gained popularity, how it came to power, what are the majors tenets of its ideology, what led to its downfall, etc. That, however, doesn't make the actions themselves OK. So now, you can be all mad and stuff, blame Life as if he woke up one morning being all like "Hey ! This scene is so pure and perfect, it's disgusting. Let's matchfix a bit so that I can be a great evil and kill ESPORTS !", or acknowledge the fact that cheating is inherent to the human being, and even more so in a competitive setup, thus that the issue here is widespread. And I have no idea what you're talking about with "integrity" ; we're talking (e)sports here. Anyone who's been a bit deep within a sports scene will know what I'm talking about ; integrity only exists in the spectator's eyes. A fair enough assessment, though in many cases people are looking to understand the reasoning behind a crime too far. In the case of Life, the reason is simple: he believes that he's above everyone else, thus does not mind cheating. This goes for most criminals, really. That goes for Nazis as well, who did what they did basing their values on the stupid notion that they are superior to everyone else. I don't see any other reason than selfish arrogance, though feel free to prove me wrong. Integrity is not something non-trivial, it's something which has immense value. If you have integrity, you do not cheat or break the law; it goes beyond esports. Perhaps the better word here would have been humility: not thinking that you're above others. Perhaps both? Still, you brought up a fair point, which I cannot ignore. Please also consider mine. I understand the need to have a scene where cheating is, if not nonexistent, at least not apparent, because there's indeed a risk of this scene taking a big blow sponsor- and viewership-wise (we can look a pro cycling as an example of this). I also understand that from the point of view of a fan, it's never cool to see cheating in the scene you support, especially when the cheaters are not low-tier player but widely recognized stars we were used to admire. However I don't think that saying that Life did this just because he was arrogant is accurate, though it definitely played a role, in the sense that anyone who breaks the law is "arrogant" enough to be persuaded that they won't be caught (most of the times, sometimes you break the law while acknowledging not that you might get caught, but that you will get caught). It is necessary to explore others reasons behind his decision, such as financiary reasons (i.e. would he have done it if it payed $6K instead of $60K? If he had more opportunities to gain personal sponsors? If he hadn't spent all his earnings on stuff? etc) or systemic reasons (it is much, much easier for an individual to decide to cheat if cheating is widespread : in other words, if matchfixing concerns way more than just 4 progamers, Life's decision appears more understandable - or less "stupid", if you want), because if you limit yourself to personal reasons (ie Life lacking humility), you'll likely never fix the issue, unless you monitor progamers H24 7/7 to make sure they never talk to brokers.
Fair enough, though really I still find it hard, from my position, to rationalize Life's actions. Sure, there are reasons, but as far as I'm concerned, they are reasons which are based on personal ignorance / attitude.
To put it simply, a progamer with integrity would have simply not have match-fixed, regardless of whether or not other people were doing it or if the potential payment was substantial. That also goes along with personal traits, I suppose.
To me, any possible rationalization still eventually boils down to personal traits. If Life would match fix for $30k, but not $10k, at the end of the day he's still considering match-fixing, which is still arrogance/destruction/etc.
Same thing if Life had knowledge of other progamers match-fixing.
Still, you have a good point so I won't disagree. Just, I find it very hard to find plausible reasons.
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On April 25 2016 18:23 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 16:13 Incognoto wrote:
Pretty annoying, imo, to see people "understand" match-fixing because it pays well.
It's incredibly fucking destructive to the scene, it's destructive to the player (Life can't play anymore), it's destructive to team and sponsors.
Even if you don't get caught, it's destructive. Low risk? Fuck that. More like low integrity. Life is at the top and deserves to be there due to his skill, but match-fixing destroys the very socle upon which he stood. It's fucking stupid and not at all understandable, much less excusable.
If crime were "understandable", then we wouldn't have laws which prevent it, would be? There's nothing to understand here, it's just a shitty, arrogant and low-life decision to make. I can't fathom how people down-play something so serious and claim it to be "understandable". there's nothing to be understood about destroying Starcraft. If crimes couldn't be understood, they couldn't be fought efficiently. Since the dawn of times, History shows us that even though laws exist, people break the law. That's why you need to understand why people break the law, because that allows you to prevent future crimes and make the law more adequate. That attitude that crimes should not be understood because they are crimes is some XIXth century shit. What's next, we should not talk about sex because it is sex? I'm not sure taboos lead to a healthy society. Additionally, understanding something doesn't mean that you consider it "good". Nazism can be understood (and had to be understood in order to get an efficient denazification), as in, people now understand why it was created, why it gained popularity, how it came to power, what are the majors tenets of its ideology, what led to its downfall, etc. That, however, doesn't make the actions themselves OK. So now, you can be all mad and stuff, blame Life as if he woke up one morning being all like "Hey ! This scene is so pure and perfect, it's disgusting. Let's matchfix a bit so that I can be a great evil and kill ESPORTS !", or acknowledge the fact that cheating is inherent to the human being, and even more so in a competitive setup, thus that the issue here is widespread. And I have no idea what you're talking about with "integrity" ; we're talking (e)sports here. Anyone who's been a bit deep within a sports scene will know what I'm talking about ; integrity only exists in the spectator's eyes.
I'm not convinced you're only saying you understand life's actions because you want to see how it can be prevented or whatever. "Life didn't wake up and say I'm evil", "everyone cheats", "everyone else is doing it", "everyone cheats in sports". Those sound like excuses.
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On April 26 2016 01:07 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 18:23 OtherWorld wrote:On April 25 2016 16:13 Incognoto wrote:
Pretty annoying, imo, to see people "understand" match-fixing because it pays well.
It's incredibly fucking destructive to the scene, it's destructive to the player (Life can't play anymore), it's destructive to team and sponsors.
Even if you don't get caught, it's destructive. Low risk? Fuck that. More like low integrity. Life is at the top and deserves to be there due to his skill, but match-fixing destroys the very socle upon which he stood. It's fucking stupid and not at all understandable, much less excusable.
If crime were "understandable", then we wouldn't have laws which prevent it, would be? There's nothing to understand here, it's just a shitty, arrogant and low-life decision to make. I can't fathom how people down-play something so serious and claim it to be "understandable". there's nothing to be understood about destroying Starcraft. If crimes couldn't be understood, they couldn't be fought efficiently. Since the dawn of times, History shows us that even though laws exist, people break the law. That's why you need to understand why people break the law, because that allows you to prevent future crimes and make the law more adequate. That attitude that crimes should not be understood because they are crimes is some XIXth century shit. What's next, we should not talk about sex because it is sex? I'm not sure taboos lead to a healthy society. Additionally, understanding something doesn't mean that you consider it "good". Nazism can be understood (and had to be understood in order to get an efficient denazification), as in, people now understand why it was created, why it gained popularity, how it came to power, what are the majors tenets of its ideology, what led to its downfall, etc. That, however, doesn't make the actions themselves OK. So now, you can be all mad and stuff, blame Life as if he woke up one morning being all like "Hey ! This scene is so pure and perfect, it's disgusting. Let's matchfix a bit so that I can be a great evil and kill ESPORTS !", or acknowledge the fact that cheating is inherent to the human being, and even more so in a competitive setup, thus that the issue here is widespread. And I have no idea what you're talking about with "integrity" ; we're talking (e)sports here. Anyone who's been a bit deep within a sports scene will know what I'm talking about ; integrity only exists in the spectator's eyes. I'm not convinced you're only saying you understand life's actions because you want to see how it can be prevented or whatever. "Life didn't wake up and say I'm evil", "everyone cheats", "everyone else is doing it", "everyone cheats in sports". Those sound like excuses.
Absolutely, it seems that if you dont "cheat" in SC2 korean scene then you are not normal. He just stretches the rationalization to his own opinion, and why Life Matchfixed? 99% for money, he is not doing it for being famous or to have more power, or any other reason, he did it for the nice U$60k, if he could have those U$60k almost for free in any other way he wouldnt have lost those games.
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While it wasn't the only factor, matchfixing was the final straw in 3 teams disbanding and a studio shutting down, along with sponsors being reluctant from sponsoring another tournament back in BW days.
If anyone still wants to defend the players while also calling themselves a supporter of eSports scene, let that sink in first.
(No, not OtherWorld because he's making good points here)
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Bisutopia19372 Posts
On April 26 2016 01:41 supernovamaniac wrote:
While it wasn't the only factor, matchfixing was the final straw in 3 teams disbanding and a studio shutting down, along with sponsors being reluctant from sponsoring another tournament back in BW days.
If anyone still wants to defend the players while also calling themselves a supporter of eSports scene, let that sink in first.
(No, not OtherWorld because he's making good points here)
For those of us that experienced the destruction following Savior first hand, we are just shaking our heads at these posts.
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On April 25 2016 19:37 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 19:25 ZertoN wrote:On April 25 2016 12:15 Doodsmack wrote:
ITT: people excuse matchfixing because "it's reasonable to do something illegal if you don't think you'll get caught".
Yes it was incredibly stupid for Life to do, and yes you are incredibly stupid to defend him. this. i cant believe there are actually people defending him. Once again, no one here is defending him. What some people, including me, are doing, however, is (a) trying to find rational reasons explaining his behavior and (b) refuting the fact that he did this because "he's stupid", which is only a very little part of the truth, and is nothing more than a posture that allows you to refuse to think - and I don't like the posture of refusing to think.
The problem is regardless of how much time effort you spend developing the scenario and rationalizing the problem, it just comes down to this:
a) greed
b) selfishness
c) fucking money
all solutions proposed by people in this thread:
a) give progamers more money because they are greedy and would matchfix instead
b) kespa and blizzard shouldn't be selfish (assuming they are), instead they should indulge the progamer's selfishness instead
c) fucking money
Nothing about promoting fair play, nothing about having healthy attitudes or a sense of community, nothing about the integrity of the game; just all corporate and social cynicism and how criminality is inevitable.
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EPT
