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On April 24 2016 04:34 gero00 wrote:@teamliquid I don't like how you put the title to a picture with the price and where he is crying. BUT he is not crying about the topic you describe, he was just being emotinal about winning! So you are intentionally abusing the picture. You are intentionally misleading the reader - maknig him think: Oh he is whining about being indicted? NO Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 18:42 Musicus wrote:
The only good thing is that they seem to have caught a lot of brokers and financial backers too, which is even more important than catching a player imo. I agree, that is an important step. The players can not simply be considered victims, but are at least not the big guys..
Yeah I have to admit that that pic is kinda inappropriate, a bit like if they put a pic of a victorious Armstrong on the newspapers when he was confirmed as having doped.
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On April 22 2016 20:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:
People saying Life's achievements don't count anymore are incredibly close minded imo.
But hey cannot say i am surprised to see that, savior still triggers people to no end.
To an extent i agree, its not like he suddenly didnt win a bunch of tournaments, but what he did absolutly puts a mar on his career. For some this means not couting his achievements, for most tho I feel like it just marks an ugly end to a good career. I will never say this makes him a bad sc2 player, but it does speak to his integrity
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I guess this is where Life doesn't find a way. So sad.
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On April 23 2016 05:37 Hikki_Hibiki wrote:
Isn't it a little ironic that we're getting all worked up over this yet Team Liquid literally has a confirmed match fixer on their Overwatch team?
User was warned for this post
Why was this guy warned? Does Teamliquid really have a match fixer on their team? If it's accusation without proof, then I understand.
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On April 24 2016 08:32 Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2016 05:37 Hikki_Hibiki wrote:
Isn't it a little ironic that we're getting all worked up over this yet Team Liquid literally has a confirmed match fixer on their Overwatch team?
User was warned for this post Why was this guy warned? Does Teamliquid really have a match fixer on their team? If it's accusation without proof, then I understand.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/overwatch/AZK
He switched to Overwatch at least partially due to a lifetime ban imposed on him for his participation in the iBUYPOWER match fixing scandal.
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No more respect for life. Hope he gets banned from esports.
Bye.
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On April 24 2016 08:32 Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2016 05:37 Hikki_Hibiki wrote:
Isn't it a little ironic that we're getting all worked up over this yet Team Liquid literally has a confirmed match fixer on their Overwatch team?
User was warned for this post Why was this guy warned? Does Teamliquid really have a match fixer on their team? If it's accusation without proof, then I understand.
The warn is probably to not steer the discussion in that direction.
Yes and no. Yes because AZK did it in the past, no because he doesn't do it anymore, and was given a second chance by TL. I believe that this kind of second chance should also be given to Life, if Kespa is that unforgivable and strict then at least by the foreign scene, but for the moment everyone is happy to have joined the hate train. Choo choo.
If I would say anything about Life's motivation to have done this, I would say... never assume that you know the whole story. While the infos clearly prove the act, they are far from being sufficient as to draw a final conclusion on his reasons.
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When are we going to hear about some KeSPA lifetime bans?
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On April 24 2016 17:18 xtorn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2016 08:32 Shield wrote:On April 23 2016 05:37 Hikki_Hibiki wrote:
Isn't it a little ironic that we're getting all worked up over this yet Team Liquid literally has a confirmed match fixer on their Overwatch team?
User was warned for this post Why was this guy warned? Does Teamliquid really have a match fixer on their team? If it's accusation without proof, then I understand. The warn is probably to not steer the discussion in that direction. Yes and no. Yes because AZK did it in the past, no because he doesn't do it anymore, and was given a second chance by TL. I believe that this kind of second chance should also be given to Life, if Kespa is that unforgivable and strict then at least by the foreign scene, but for the moment everyone is happy to have joined the hate train. Choo choo. If I would say anything about Life's motivation to have done this, I would say... never assume that you know the whole story. While the infos clearly prove the act, they are far from being sufficient as to draw a final conclusion on his reasons.
I think Blizz would be in the same boat with regards to a Lifetime ban. They wouldn't want people who matchfix to be winning tournaments they're putting the money into. I really can't see him being allowed to ever compete in SC2 again.
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Wow, this sucks a lot. Very much too much. Life was and is one of my all-time favorite players, and I will always look up to his skill and perseverance all the way from back when he won Iron Squid 2 with his trademark 'Ling micro and absolutely insane fundementals.
This, as many others have also said, brings me back to sAviOr, who I absolutely adored too. His mindgames and revolutionary Zerg style made me want to get better, every time I saw him play.
No matter what you think of any of these two players and what they did, you simply cannot just deny their skill and greatness. They both, in my opinion, deserve respect for what they brought to the game, despite all this negative shit.
I'm not apologizing for Life - I think that's his job - but he's a kid. A kid with a very, very promising career in eSports in a game where he can beat anyone, any time. I'm not a fan of the lifetime-ban argument. Give him a season ban or a year or something. Then, if he wants to, he can try and make amends by fighting to get back the glory that we know he's capable of.
Be honest: would any of you want to pay the rest of your life, for something you did as a teenager?
P.S. : As for BByong, I must tip my hat at him for coming clean. We should all aspire to man up to your mistakes.
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On April 24 2016 19:37 20-Minute-Jackal wrote:
When are we going to hear about some KeSPA lifetime bans?
In esport even 1 year ban is like a lifetime ban, and I doubt it'll be easy to bring sponsors back on you with a tarnished name.
But, this idea of lifetime ban is plain stupid and won't help the fight against matchfixing at all. Sentence with no way of redemption never worked anywhere, anytime and in this particular case it would only make the player's position more fragile.
If anything, I'm crossing fingers for a symbolic sentence to Bbyong, he decided to go and reveal his case to the authorities, and made the arrest of some brokers/backers possible. What he did should be encouraged, the more players will talk the faster illegal betting will be solved. Each time (italian mafias, south africa apartheid crimes, ...) you allow people to talk to authorities and redeem themselves, you solve the issue with efficiency.
On the other hand if you say life time ban, you can be sure that no player will ever talk and they will be left alone to choose between being 100% honest or getting thirty fucking thousands dollars for loosing one map and still winning the series. I don't think this would help in the fight against match fixing.
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On April 24 2016 17:18 xtorn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2016 08:32 Shield wrote:On April 23 2016 05:37 Hikki_Hibiki wrote:
Isn't it a little ironic that we're getting all worked up over this yet Team Liquid literally has a confirmed match fixer on their Overwatch team?
User was warned for this post Why was this guy warned? Does Teamliquid really have a match fixer on their team? If it's accusation without proof, then I understand. The warn is probably to not steer the discussion in that direction. Yes and no. Yes because AZK did it in the past, no because he doesn't do it anymore, and was given a second chance by TL. I believe that this kind of second chance should also be given to Life, if Kespa is that unforgivable and strict then at least by the foreign scene, but for the moment everyone is happy to have joined the hate train. Choo choo. If I would say anything about Life's motivation to have done this, I would say... never assume that you know the whole story. While the infos clearly prove the act, they are far from being sufficient as to draw a final conclusion on his reasons.
The answer is Yes, not Yes and No, TL Overwatch team has a matchfixer in another game, and for Life, they should ban him forever, that in esports is 3 years or more, if a player with nearly U$500 k earnings is so stupid to matchfix, he deserves the hardest punishment.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 24 2016 19:53 SunnStR wrote:
Wow, this sucks a lot. Very much too much. Life was and is one of my all-time favorite players, and I will always look up to his skill and perseverance all the way from back when he won Iron Squid 2 with his trademark 'Ling micro and absolutely insane fundementals.
This, as many others have also said, brings me back to sAviOr, who I absolutely adored too. His mindgames and revolutionary Zerg style made me want to get better, every time I saw him play.
No matter what you think of any of these two players and what they did, you simply cannot just deny their skill and greatness. They both, in my opinion, deserve respect for what they brought to the game, despite all this negative shit.
I'm not apologizing for Life - I think that's his job - but he's a kid. A kid with a very, very promising career in eSports in a game where he can beat anyone, any time. I'm not a fan of the lifetime-ban argument. Give him a season ban or a year or something. Then, if he wants to, he can try and make amends by fighting to get back the glory that we know he's capable of.
Be honest: would any of you want to pay the rest of your life, for something you did as a teenager?
P.S. : As for BByong, I must tip my hat at him for coming clean. We should all aspire to man up to your mistakes.
That won't ever work in Starcraft. If they wanted to let these 2 off, they'd first need to let off a lot of the players from the 2010 matchfix ring.
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On April 24 2016 22:13 palexhur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2016 17:18 xtorn wrote:On April 24 2016 08:32 Shield wrote:On April 23 2016 05:37 Hikki_Hibiki wrote:
Isn't it a little ironic that we're getting all worked up over this yet Team Liquid literally has a confirmed match fixer on their Overwatch team?
User was warned for this post Why was this guy warned? Does Teamliquid really have a match fixer on their team? If it's accusation without proof, then I understand. The warn is probably to not steer the discussion in that direction. Yes and no. Yes because AZK did it in the past, no because he doesn't do it anymore, and was given a second chance by TL. I believe that this kind of second chance should also be given to Life, if Kespa is that unforgivable and strict then at least by the foreign scene, but for the moment everyone is happy to have joined the hate train. Choo choo. If I would say anything about Life's motivation to have done this, I would say... never assume that you know the whole story. While the infos clearly prove the act, they are far from being sufficient as to draw a final conclusion on his reasons. The answer is Yes, not Yes and No, TL Overwatch team has a matchfixer in another game, and for Life, they should ban him forever, that in esports is 3 years or more, if a player with nearly U$500 k earnings is so stupid to matchfix, he deserves the hardest punishment.
If you could easily and illegally increase your earnings by 15% of the money you made for your whole life (!), don't you think you'd be very tempted do it?
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On April 25 2016 00:02 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2016 22:13 palexhur wrote:On April 24 2016 17:18 xtorn wrote:On April 24 2016 08:32 Shield wrote:On April 23 2016 05:37 Hikki_Hibiki wrote:
Isn't it a little ironic that we're getting all worked up over this yet Team Liquid literally has a confirmed match fixer on their Overwatch team?
User was warned for this post Why was this guy warned? Does Teamliquid really have a match fixer on their team? If it's accusation without proof, then I understand. The warn is probably to not steer the discussion in that direction. Yes and no. Yes because AZK did it in the past, no because he doesn't do it anymore, and was given a second chance by TL. I believe that this kind of second chance should also be given to Life, if Kespa is that unforgivable and strict then at least by the foreign scene, but for the moment everyone is happy to have joined the hate train. Choo choo. If I would say anything about Life's motivation to have done this, I would say... never assume that you know the whole story. While the infos clearly prove the act, they are far from being sufficient as to draw a final conclusion on his reasons. The answer is Yes, not Yes and No, TL Overwatch team has a matchfixer in another game, and for Life, they should ban him forever, that in esports is 3 years or more, if a player with nearly U$500 k earnings is so stupid to matchfix, he deserves the hardest punishment. If you could easily and illegally increase your earnings by 15% of the money you made for your whole life (!), don't you think you'd be very tempted do it?
Tempted? Yes sure. But what kind of argument is that? At the end of the day your own moral compass has to kick in. And for most people it does. Giving a second chance to go pro would be a bad sign imo. "Hey if you get caught matchfixing for huge amount of money you get a second chance anyway, no big deal!"
No, he can do whatever he wants now (i would even say streaming would be fine, but afreeca and twitch disagree), but playing professional again? Yeah no the trust is gone at this point.
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On April 24 2016 19:53 SunnStR wrote:
Wow, this sucks a lot. Very much too much. Life was and is one of my all-time favorite players, and I will always look up to his skill and perseverance all the way from back when he won Iron Squid 2 with his trademark 'Ling micro and absolutely insane fundementals.
This, as many others have also said, brings me back to sAviOr, who I absolutely adored too. His mindgames and revolutionary Zerg style made me want to get better, every time I saw him play.
No matter what you think of any of these two players and what they did, you simply cannot just deny their skill and greatness. They both, in my opinion, deserve respect for what they brought to the game, despite all this negative shit.
I'm not apologizing for Life - I think that's his job - but he's a kid. A kid with a very, very promising career in eSports in a game where he can beat anyone, any time. I'm not a fan of the lifetime-ban argument. Give him a season ban or a year or something. Then, if he wants to, he can try and make amends by fighting to get back the glory that we know he's capable of.
Be honest: would any of you want to pay the rest of your life, for something you did as a teenager?
P.S. : As for BByong, I must tip my hat at him for coming clean. We should all aspire to man up to your mistakes.
Stupid things I did when was I was a teenager didn't involve that amount of money..
He knew it was wrong. He knew the risks. Yet he chose to do it anyway.. Now it's time to pay the piper.
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On April 25 2016 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 00:02 OtherWorld wrote:On April 24 2016 22:13 palexhur wrote:On April 24 2016 17:18 xtorn wrote:On April 24 2016 08:32 Shield wrote:On April 23 2016 05:37 Hikki_Hibiki wrote:
Isn't it a little ironic that we're getting all worked up over this yet Team Liquid literally has a confirmed match fixer on their Overwatch team?
User was warned for this post Why was this guy warned? Does Teamliquid really have a match fixer on their team? If it's accusation without proof, then I understand. The warn is probably to not steer the discussion in that direction. Yes and no. Yes because AZK did it in the past, no because he doesn't do it anymore, and was given a second chance by TL. I believe that this kind of second chance should also be given to Life, if Kespa is that unforgivable and strict then at least by the foreign scene, but for the moment everyone is happy to have joined the hate train. Choo choo. If I would say anything about Life's motivation to have done this, I would say... never assume that you know the whole story. While the infos clearly prove the act, they are far from being sufficient as to draw a final conclusion on his reasons. The answer is Yes, not Yes and No, TL Overwatch team has a matchfixer in another game, and for Life, they should ban him forever, that in esports is 3 years or more, if a player with nearly U$500 k earnings is so stupid to matchfix, he deserves the hardest punishment. If you could easily and illegally increase your earnings by 15% of the money you made for your whole life (!), don't you think you'd be very tempted do it? Tempted? Yes sure. But what kind of argument is that? At the end of the day your own moral compass has to kick in. And for most people it does. Giving a second chance to go pro would be a bad sign imo. "Hey if you get caught matchfixing for huge amount of money you get a second chance anyway, no big deal!" No, he can do whatever he wants now (i would even say streaming would be fine, but afreeca and twitch disagree), but playing professional again? Yeah no the trust is gone at this point.
I was adressing his statement that someone with $400K earnings is stupid to matchfix for "only" $62K, because in fact, and contrarily to what he seemed to imply, $62K relative to $400K is huge, and even more so if you look at the little effort it took to win them. Nothing to do with how he should or shouldn't be punished.
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On April 25 2016 01:41 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On April 25 2016 00:02 OtherWorld wrote:On April 24 2016 22:13 palexhur wrote:On April 24 2016 17:18 xtorn wrote:On April 24 2016 08:32 Shield wrote:On April 23 2016 05:37 Hikki_Hibiki wrote:
Isn't it a little ironic that we're getting all worked up over this yet Team Liquid literally has a confirmed match fixer on their Overwatch team?
User was warned for this post Why was this guy warned? Does Teamliquid really have a match fixer on their team? If it's accusation without proof, then I understand. The warn is probably to not steer the discussion in that direction. Yes and no. Yes because AZK did it in the past, no because he doesn't do it anymore, and was given a second chance by TL. I believe that this kind of second chance should also be given to Life, if Kespa is that unforgivable and strict then at least by the foreign scene, but for the moment everyone is happy to have joined the hate train. Choo choo. If I would say anything about Life's motivation to have done this, I would say... never assume that you know the whole story. While the infos clearly prove the act, they are far from being sufficient as to draw a final conclusion on his reasons. The answer is Yes, not Yes and No, TL Overwatch team has a matchfixer in another game, and for Life, they should ban him forever, that in esports is 3 years or more, if a player with nearly U$500 k earnings is so stupid to matchfix, he deserves the hardest punishment. If you could easily and illegally increase your earnings by 15% of the money you made for your whole life (!), don't you think you'd be very tempted do it? Tempted? Yes sure. But what kind of argument is that? At the end of the day your own moral compass has to kick in. And for most people it does. Giving a second chance to go pro would be a bad sign imo. "Hey if you get caught matchfixing for huge amount of money you get a second chance anyway, no big deal!" No, he can do whatever he wants now (i would even say streaming would be fine, but afreeca and twitch disagree), but playing professional again? Yeah no the trust is gone at this point. I was adressing his statement that someone with $400K earnings is stupid to matchfix for "only" $62K, because in fact, and contrarily to what he seemed to imply, $62K relative to $400K is huge, and even more so if you look at the little effort it took to win them. Nothing to do with how he should or shouldn't be punished.
Fair enough, it's still kinda stupid though. Life was a star player, he probably had one of the higher salaries and his skill would have led him to win more money in the future as well.
Going the easy and illegal route is still incredibly stupid because of his status in the scene. Players with no star power don't have to lose as much as he did, which would make the decision to do it "less stupid" , i think that's fair to say? :D
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On April 25 2016 01:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 01:41 OtherWorld wrote:On April 25 2016 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On April 25 2016 00:02 OtherWorld wrote:On April 24 2016 22:13 palexhur wrote:On April 24 2016 17:18 xtorn wrote:On April 24 2016 08:32 Shield wrote:On April 23 2016 05:37 Hikki_Hibiki wrote:
Isn't it a little ironic that we're getting all worked up over this yet Team Liquid literally has a confirmed match fixer on their Overwatch team?
User was warned for this post Why was this guy warned? Does Teamliquid really have a match fixer on their team? If it's accusation without proof, then I understand. The warn is probably to not steer the discussion in that direction. Yes and no. Yes because AZK did it in the past, no because he doesn't do it anymore, and was given a second chance by TL. I believe that this kind of second chance should also be given to Life, if Kespa is that unforgivable and strict then at least by the foreign scene, but for the moment everyone is happy to have joined the hate train. Choo choo. If I would say anything about Life's motivation to have done this, I would say... never assume that you know the whole story. While the infos clearly prove the act, they are far from being sufficient as to draw a final conclusion on his reasons. The answer is Yes, not Yes and No, TL Overwatch team has a matchfixer in another game, and for Life, they should ban him forever, that in esports is 3 years or more, if a player with nearly U$500 k earnings is so stupid to matchfix, he deserves the hardest punishment. If you could easily and illegally increase your earnings by 15% of the money you made for your whole life (!), don't you think you'd be very tempted do it? Tempted? Yes sure. But what kind of argument is that? At the end of the day your own moral compass has to kick in. And for most people it does. Giving a second chance to go pro would be a bad sign imo. "Hey if you get caught matchfixing for huge amount of money you get a second chance anyway, no big deal!" No, he can do whatever he wants now (i would even say streaming would be fine, but afreeca and twitch disagree), but playing professional again? Yeah no the trust is gone at this point. I was adressing his statement that someone with $400K earnings is stupid to matchfix for "only" $62K, because in fact, and contrarily to what he seemed to imply, $62K relative to $400K is huge, and even more so if you look at the little effort it took to win them. Nothing to do with how he should or shouldn't be punished. Fair enough, it's still kinda stupid though. Life was a star player, he probably had one of the higher salaries and his skill would have led him to win more money in the future as well. Going the easy and illegal route is still incredibly stupid because of his status in the scene. Players with no star power don't have to lose as much as he did, which would make the decision to do it "less stupid" , i think that's fair to say? :D
That resumes Life´s behavior ,100% agree.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
If you compare it to the IBP throw its very different. Life had a life of winnings and a salary and was a star player.
IBP didn't even know if CS:GO was going to be big and had no salary.
One was in a premier tournament.The other was a meaningless online match.
Both are bad, but one is more understandable than the other.
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