EPTBut hey cannot say i am surprised to see that, savior still triggers people to no end.
Prosecutor's Report: Life & Bbyong match-fixing - Page 19
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
But hey cannot say i am surprised to see that, savior still triggers people to no end. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On April 22 2016 20:16 Zealously wrote: I somewhat respectfully disagree. Being a good player is exactly that. Being a good sportsman, however, and a great role model for other players, is something different. If you want to make the distinction, then separate best player from greatest player. I see many people make that distinction, and it at least holds together. But technical skill is the fundamental part of playing a game, and it's irrational to deny that a player was good because X happened. People don't deny saviOr the same thing, and I think it would be absurd to deny that Life was a stellar player. An asshole, maybe, but that does not factor in. Fair enough, we can make a distinction between best and greatest. It all boils down to what you think a player is made of: is it only his ability to play the game, or is it more than that? When I "deny" Life as a good player, I take more into account than just his in-game skill. Well, discussing that aspect more would be just beating a dead horse; I'm sure that point I had in my head has come accross. It kind of comes down to the fact that if you damage the scene by fixing the match, you're damaging your own accomplishments, since without the scene in the first place, your accomplishments mean nothing. Basically, a win when your opponent purposefully throws holds no value. Thus, by match-fixing, you are destroying the value of the competition. Those accomplishments are built upon the value of that competition; if that value is degraded (through match-fixing), then so are those accomplishments. I would rather have Life's or Bbyong's accomplishments be degraded rather than Terminator's. That is the reasoning I have. I know that it doesn't stand up in terms of pure logic, since in theory only the people who won versus match-fixers actually have degraded accomplishments. Anyway~~ + Show Spoiler + @opisska First of all, a little life (no pun intended) trick: putting words in capital letters doesn't make your argument sound more compelling, it only makes you look like you can't type properly, so you might as well not do that. No, I just want to emphasize certain words without resorting to use italic brackets because I'm lazy. Thanks, but I don't need your crappy life tricks. The rest of your post is irrelevant since you completely ignore the points I'm making; whether it's out of ignorance or you just purposefully refuse to understand, I don't care anymore to discuss this with you. | ||
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SuperHofmann
Italy1741 Posts
On April 22 2016 20:21 The_Red_Viper wrote: People saying Life's achievements don't count anymore are incredibly close minded imo. But hey cannot say i am surprised to see that, savior still triggers people to no end. I agree he was that strong that he was paid to win 3-1 instead of 3-0. This make me think about how much he was stronger than others. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16033 Posts
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Hurricaned
France126 Posts
On April 22 2016 21:33 Charoisaur wrote: If only life would have been caught before blizzcon so lilbow would have gotten his rightful blizzcon trophy. How much would he charge to intentionally lose against Lilbow? I feel 100k wouldn't be enough | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On April 22 2016 21:33 Charoisaur wrote: If only life would have been caught before blizzcon so lilbow would have gotten his rightful blizzcon trophy. What if the games were fixed, but Life just couldn't find a way to lose no matter how hard he tried?  I really wonder how Lilbow takes this? I am not sure if he reads every single piece of bullshit on TL, but surely he must be painfully aware of this happening over and over again. I am becoming quite sorry for him, because he still is a very good player and I enjoyed some of his games - yet, I can't really help myself  | ||
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Muffloe
Sweden6061 Posts
On April 22 2016 18:52 Incognoto wrote: You think that cheating only matters when it is done for the benefit of the cheater and therein lies your error. Life and other match-fixers cheated in a way that benefitted their opponent when it comes to the actual Starcraft match, but it was done to the DETRIMENT of the Starcraft scene, the opponents who unknowingly got a free-win, the tournament organizers who hosted the event, the viewers who were watching a fair game. THEY are the ones who got cheated. Don't say otherwise. It is cheating. The accomplishments of Life are meaningful only if his competitors were also playing in a meaningful way. Life's accomplishments are supported by the entire scene. If he does not respect that scene, then the scene has no right to acknowledge Life's accomplishments either. If Life does not play in a meaningful way, then his accomplishments are also meangingless. I do not personally acknowledge as a good player anymore. Regardless of your technical skill, there's more to it than just that when it comes to being a good player. Yeah, I'm sure shitting on the scene was the first thing he had in mind | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16033 Posts
On April 22 2016 21:42 opisska wrote: What if the games were fixed, but Life just couldn't find a way to lose no matter how hard he tried? I really wonder how Lilbow takes this? I am not sure if he reads every single piece of bullshit on TL, but surely he must be painfully aware of this happening over and over again. I am becoming quite sorry for him, because he still is a very good player and I enjoyed some of his games - yet, I can't really help myself I think he takes it with humor. There was a tweet from him after NW3 in which he said he was glad Mlord did all the work so he could practice for NW4 | ||
Poopi
France12908 Posts
On April 22 2016 21:42 opisska wrote: What if the games were fixed, but Life just couldn't find a way to lose no matter how hard he tried? I really wonder how Lilbow takes this? I am not sure if he reads every single piece of bullshit on TL, but surely he must be painfully aware of this happening over and over again. I am becoming quite sorry for him, because he still is a very good player and I enjoyed some of his games - yet, I can't really help myself I think Lilbow doesn't cry in his office so he is probably ok since he can play starcraft | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On April 22 2016 22:04 Charoisaur wrote: I think he takes it with humor. There was a tweet from him after NW3 in which he said he was glad Mlord did all the work so he could practice for NW4 That's really cool I sometimes stop to think if making fun of people online is right. I mean I don't mine if people act like that to me, but everybody's different. Then I remember my noble quest of becoming an asshole and everything is fine. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
Damn it, Life. You seemed so genuine. I guess temptation gets to everybody under the right circumstances. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On April 21 2016 20:23 deacon.frost wrote: KeSPA needs to start caring about players. Right now they care only when something like this happens which is wrong. Yeah... I feel like with how tempting it is to match fix, the life of a pro gamer must not be as worth it as it seems from a fan's perspective. If you're actually enjoying what you're doing for a living, I think the chances of you cheating drastically decrease. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7159 Posts
On April 22 2016 21:47 Muffloe wrote: Yeah, I'm sure shitting on the scene was the first thing he had in mind Doesn't matter what was in his mind. He still hurt the scene alot. A korean sc player should know the effect of matchfixing. I have no sympathy for Life here. Seems like he doesn't care | ||
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zealotstim
United States455 Posts
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Muffloe
Sweden6061 Posts
On April 22 2016 22:30 Luolis wrote: Doesn't matter what was in his mind. He still hurt the scene alot. A korean sc player should know the effect of matchfixing. I have no sympathy for Life here. Seems like he doesn't care For a guy who skyrocked so early he probably didn't have much consequential thinking. Who knows though, maybe he did this out of malice, but I really doubt that. And for me it goes without saying that his achievements isn't mutually exclusive with his matchfixing. "It's a sign of an infantile mind to pretend like nothing Life or sAviOr did has value cos they also committed a crime." as Thorin said. I don't always agree with him, but that's a very sober thought in this emotional mess | ||
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TomInKorea
Korea (South)39 Posts
On April 22 2016 22:26 Flonomenalz wrote: Yeah... I feel like with how tempting it is to match fix, the life of a pro gamer must not be as worth it as it seems from a fan's perspective. If you're actually enjoying what you're doing for a living, I think the chances of you cheating drastically decrease. That's partially likely. Basic cost- benefit analysis dictates that the determining factor is if he thought he could get away with it or felt trapped in the situation. Gambling is a terrible vice for some people and let's not pretend everyone can handle it. He was a guy who won a lot at a young age and probably believed he could "beat the odds" in both gambling (allegedly) and matchfixing since he had already beaten the odds in starcraft. | ||
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
But hey maybe that's what the WCS supporters wanted all along.. | ||
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
The solution would be simple, just like for weed. Just legalize betting and have kespa / official establishment manage it. This would bring more money for sc2 and they would always be instantly aware of who bets what so it would facilitate investigations a lot. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10690 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On April 23 2016 04:54 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: The amount of money that goes into matchfix is pretty crazy. 30k $ for fixing one match? it's higher than most 1st place prize money !! No wonder players will fall for it, you can live more than a year off that amount (especially since it's probably non declared/taxed) The solution would be simple, just like for weed. Just legalize betting and have kespa / official establishment manage it. This would bring more money for sc2 and they would always be instantly aware of who bets what so it would facilitate investigations a lot. I think there are easier things to do than to change Korean laws just for the sake of SC2's survival xD | ||
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