On April 21 2016 16:55 lichter wrote: A better support structure is what is necessary. How do you raise a kid that's earned 400k and then let him squander it all away on vice and gambling?
I heard he gave basically all of his prize money to his parents, not sure if true. So perhaps he wasn't quite that rich.
It's a widely known "secret" that he had gambling problems
It's Mvp that bought his parents a house.
Still a big leap to say that he gambled literally all of his money away lol
Either way most teenagers don't have 400k to play with and no supervision. Not condoning the match fixing but I don't blame him for fucking up his money if he had no help/support/guidance on that front
If I had 400k at 18 I would probably squander it all away too if I spent my childhood playing video games competitively. It doesn't excuse him, but it does put into question his support system. Kespa need to do better about educating and helping these children.
What a terrible end to a legend. I wish it didn't have to come to this.
I keep feeling that we are all living in the darkest timeline. We lost so many great players, personalities, organizations, and tournaments over the years. Despite lingering issues, the game is in its most entertaining iteration right now imo, but it still bums me out that so many have dropped out or faded up until now, and even more players are still potentially on the chopping block.
On April 21 2016 16:32 opisska wrote: Maybe you will call it heresy, but I am not really too offended with someone throwing a game in a series they won at the end anyway. It doesn't really change anything while allowing a player to get a nice side income.
Can you ban people for making posts this incredibly stupid?
I don't find anything stupid on it. Life won the match with throwing a map here and there. As long as it doesn't affect the final result I am OK with it.
I am under no circumstances ok with it. It's blatantly throwing away competitive integrity. Some small part of me does think it makes a difference somehow, but still
Bla bla competitive integrity is just a pointless buzzword anyway. I am really fed up with how everyone considers matchfixing worse than mass murder.
I would see an activity that leads you to winning when you would lose anyway as a really big problem for the competition (hacking, stream cheating, whatever .... But deliberately losing, I am just not that crazy about. In particular when it doesn't change the outcome of the series (and the map score is not used for anything). It's worse in PL, when it kinda shits on your teammates, but in individual leagues, it's just up to you, if you really want to lose, isn't it?
And as I have said a dozen times: yes, it's stealing money, but from mainly people who bet illegally - and you are sort of not supposed to expect your investment to be legally protected, when it's against the law in the first place, right?
Damn dude I'm the closest thing you're gonna get to an ally on this issue.
Well you literally said that you are "under no circumstances ok" (notice me using the world literally correctly for the first time in my life ) that seemed pretty straightforward. Whatever, there is really nothing much to accomplish here, they are gonna get banned for life no matter what discussion we have here and the people who are set on hating any matchfixer with a burning passion won't change their views. I am writing this stuff on the premise that there may be people coming here who don't have a solidified pseudo-moral opinion yet for them to see that other viewpoints do exist. I probably don't do a very good job of that, because I am just not a very good debater, or even an acceptable human being to many, but again, whatever. Peace
On April 21 2016 16:55 lichter wrote: A better support structure is what is necessary. How do you raise a kid that's earned 400k and then let him squander it all away on vice and gambling?
I heard he gave basically all of his prize money to his parents, not sure if true. So perhaps he wasn't quite that rich.
It's a widely known "secret" that he had gambling problems
It's Mvp that bought his parents a house.
Which follows what I wrote earlier. Teams want 110 % from players but they cannot protect their health. Gambling addiction is a health issue and what more, makes the player liability to the competition! And nothing happened. PLayers have wrist issues, nobody cares. Players are slaves(hey, Prime) and nobody cares. Players throw a map here and there and KeSPA lose their mind. WTF? Am I the only one who see a HUGE problem in it?
Stork and Boxer talked about how the Kespa system was kind of shit at support.
On April 21 2016 16:55 lichter wrote: A better support structure is what is necessary. How do you raise a kid that's earned 400k and then let him squander it all away on vice and gambling?
I heard he gave basically all of his prize money to his parents, not sure if true. So perhaps he wasn't quite that rich.
It's a widely known "secret" that he had gambling problems
It's Mvp that bought his parents a house.
Which follows what I wrote earlier. Teams want 110 % from players but they cannot protect their health. Gambling addiction is a health issue and what more, makes the player liability to the competition! And nothing happened. PLayers have wrist issues, nobody cares. Players are slaves(hey, Prime) and nobody cares. Players throw a map here and there and KeSPA lose their mind. WTF? Am I the only one who see a HUGE problem in it?
Stork and Boxer talked about how the Kespa system was kind of shit at support.
Which makes me sad. Both Prime and Life problem could have been prevented.
On April 21 2016 17:00 Poopi wrote: I only read the last page and OP, is it confirmed that it is Life? Anyways, finally some news about this, was about time.
Yes, pretty much. One game in question would have to be
On April 21 2016 17:09 Incognoto wrote: I thought "don't gamble" fell under common sense, never saw it as a health issue.
Gamble addiction though? If what is written earlier is right, he wasn't just gambling here and there, he was addicted to it, IMO. WHich is a health issue, isn't it? As other addictions are
On April 21 2016 17:09 Incognoto wrote: I thought "don't gamble" fell under common sense, never saw it as a health issue.
Gamble addiction though? If what is written earlier is right, he wasn't just gambling here and there, he was addicted to it, IMO. WHich is a health issue, isn't it? As other addictions are
yeah he enjoys gambling but that doesn't necessarily mean its a compulsion
On April 21 2016 17:09 Incognoto wrote: I thought "don't gamble" fell under common sense, never saw it as a health issue.
Gamble addiction though? If what is written earlier is right, he wasn't just gambling here and there, he was addicted to it, IMO. WHich is a health issue, isn't it? As other addictions are
Drug addiction isn't a health issue, it's people who lack common sense or who are overly naive.
Same goes to gambling.
Either way, this is off topic so no need to go further.
I certainly think that KeSPA should be taking a nice good hard look at itself in order to figure out if it could be doing anything better than what it currently is in terms of player support.
On April 21 2016 17:09 Incognoto wrote: I thought "don't gamble" fell under common sense, never saw it as a health issue.
Gamble addiction though? If what is written earlier is right, he wasn't just gambling here and there, he was addicted to it, IMO. WHich is a health issue, isn't it? As other addictions are
Yeah, saying that gambling addiction is not a health issue is on the same level as saying that depression is just bad feelings or that people just need to not light cigaretes if they want to quit smoking. It really needs to be recognized as a serious issue, in particular with young people. Not that we really know if Life had actual gambling issues, but people should understand that the possibility exists and that such person needs to be viewed as affected by a health condition, not just "stupid".
edit: dear incongnito, let me give you a couple of heroin shots and then let us see how the addiction is not a health issue and how you can not take any more just because you aren't naive, right?
On April 21 2016 17:09 Incognoto wrote: I thought "don't gamble" fell under common sense, never saw it as a health issue.
I feel like “don't do hard drugs“ is common sense, too, but still lots of (sometimes even very smart people) end up taking them, which also leads to huge health issues. I do not want to deny their guilt, but addictions to gambling for example can make you do things you would have never done otherwise, i mean just look at what some people do to get their drugs. To conclude, i do not want to protect life anymore, but gambling addiction is a big health issue, even though it does not leave visible marks like drugs do.
On April 21 2016 17:09 Incognoto wrote: I thought "don't gamble" fell under common sense, never saw it as a health issue.
Gamble addiction though? If what is written earlier is right, he wasn't just gambling here and there, he was addicted to it, IMO. WHich is a health issue, isn't it? As other addictions are
Drug addiction isn't a health issue, it's people who lack common sense or who are overly naive.
Same goes to gambling.
Either way, this is off topic so no need to go further.
I certainly think that KeSPA should be taking a nice good hard look at itself in order to figure out if it could be doing anything better than what it currently is in terms of player support.
Becoming addicted isn't (necessarily but still can be in various circumstances) but trying to give up something you are addicted to is. Especially if it is physically addictive when just outright quitting can literally kill.
Pray tell me how you're supposed to quit smoking without not lighting cigarrettes?
The person doing the heavy lifting when it comes to stopping addiction at all is always the person who is addicted in the first place. They should have the common sense to know that it's an issue and go out of their way to seek help when they need it. The same thing applies to depression or any other addiction.
Don't blame your doctor because you have cancer because you smoke, don't blame KeSPA because Life possibly gambled away his earnings.
Don't blame anyone because you're too fucking stupid to know not to start drugs or gambling.
Do go out of your way to seek help to break an addiction.
Do NOT blame others because you have an addiction.
Either way this is off topic and irrelevant to the topic at hand. Would be better to remain on topic.
On April 21 2016 17:22 Incognoto wrote: Pray tell me how you're supposed to quit smoking without not lighting cigarrettes?
The person doing the heavy lifting when it comes to stopping addiction at all is always the person who is addicted in the first place. They should have the common sense to know that it's an issue and go out of their way to seek help when they need it. The same thing applies to depression or any other addiction.
Don't blame your doctor because you have cancer because you smoke, don't blame KeSPA because Life possibly gambled away his earnings.
Either way this is off topic and irrelevant to the topic at hand. Would be better to remain on topic.
You take it wrong, nobody is blaming KeSPA because Life was broke. I, personally, am blaming KeSPA for doing nothing and looking at a liability in their system like it's not happening. An addicted person is a liability, everybody fucking knows it. A true addiction is a health issue and needs to be treated by a professional. An alcohol addiction, gambling addiction or drug addiction - all of these are treated in a special building with doctors inside, but hey, there are doctors probably because it is NOT a health issue... WTF, man?
Edit> To be fair, in most organization where you want your members to be clear of any shady activities you are seen as a liability even when you gamble and you are not addicted, because gambling is in general liability(you lose money and need more money to lose the money).
On April 21 2016 16:32 opisska wrote: Maybe you will call it heresy, but I am not really too offended with someone throwing a game in a series they won at the end anyway. It doesn't really change anything while allowing a player to get a nice side income.
Can you ban people for making posts this incredibly stupid?
I don't find anything stupid on it. Life won the match with throwing a map here and there. As long as it doesn't affect the final result I am OK with it.
Do you feel ok about point shaving, then?
What is point shaving?
Point shaving is trying to reduce your winning margin in games with a point spread. It's most commonly done in basketball because of the high scores. Basically, a team that's favored to win by 20 will, late in the game if they're guaranteed to win, stop playing as hard and try to win by less than 20.
On April 21 2016 16:32 opisska wrote: Maybe you will call it heresy, but I am not really too offended with someone throwing a game in a series they won at the end anyway. It doesn't really change anything while allowing a player to get a nice side income.
Can you ban people for making posts this incredibly stupid?
I don't find anything stupid on it. Life won the match with throwing a map here and there. As long as it doesn't affect the final result I am OK with it.
Do you feel ok about point shaving, then?
What is point shaving?
Point shaving is trying to reduce your winning margin in games with a point spread. It's most commonly done in basketball because of the high scores. Basically, a team that's favored to win by 20 will, late in the game if they're guaranteed to win, stop playing as hard and try to win by less than 20.
EPT
) that seemed pretty straightforward. Whatever, there is really nothing much to accomplish here, they are gonna get banned for life no matter what discussion we have here and the people who are set on hating any matchfixer with a burning passion won't change their views. I am writing this stuff on the premise that there may be people coming here who don't have a solidified pseudo-moral opinion yet for them to see that other viewpoints do exist. I probably don't do a very good job of that, because I am just not a very good debater, or even an acceptable human being to many, but again, whatever. Peace 
