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On April 15 2016 08:03 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 06:59 Elentos wrote:On April 15 2016 06:56 Hier wrote:
Wait how do they know Major and MarineLord had both had access to the account in question? Aside from both of them admitting to it, well, you can compare hotkey setups and spamming patterns to identify players. Them admitting to it is fine, the other stuff absolutely cannot be used as evidence. Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 07:01 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On April 15 2016 06:56 Hier wrote:
Wait how do they know Major and MarineLord had both had access to the account in question? That's very easy to establish. I don't think either player denied it either. That's the thing, it's NOT easy to establish definitively.
It often is. If the person is using the account normally (and not trying to conceal the fact that they are using that account) it's trivial to establish. They can compare the IP, MAC address and all the data they have about the computer you use for your main account with the other account. If you argue that someone else was using your computer (which isn't a possibility in this case) they can look at the replays and try to see if it's you from the hotkey patterns, build orders etc.
Besides in this case MarineLord has said that they were sharing accounts.
On April 15 2016 08:31 wiileeyum wrote:
While I don't mind some form of punishment, retroactive punishment seems way too harsh. ex post facto must be discussed since Blizzard themselves just issued one.
What do you mean by retroactive punishment? The rules were in place before they broke them. If you mean the fact that they removed the WCS points they'd won so far that doesn't have anything to do with ex post facto.
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I dont find this harsh at all.
Its not just about those 3 players and enforcing the rules. Its about sending a message to those players who couldnt (yet) be caught and prevention of abusive behaviour. Blizzard suspected there would be more players involved in win trading and by increasing the punishment when caught this could have a deterrent effect on those players. It could also make win trading or other forms of cheating less appealing to players who think about abusing the system but havent actually done anything yet.
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So Marinelord admits to awarding wins. Wins that were awarded were done on a barcode account that Marinelord and Major account shares. Major admits to account sharing said account. Note that Blizzard does NOT name Lambo, Zanster or Botvinik.
What more proof do you actually need? Even if the verdict is a bad one you can't blame the jury. Suppose everything MajOr said was true and nothing was omitted by Marinelord:
1) MajOr and Marinelord account shared.
2) The account MajOr and Marinelord account shared was used by one or both of them (Marinelord confesses to this) to matchfix to qualify DnS.
3) MajOr left games vs Lambo / Zanster / Botvinik prematurely during a ladder qualifier, because he was sick and taking medication at the time.
Best case scenario for MajOr: MajOr was associated with a matchfixer by account sharing an account that would be used in the matchfixing, he never intended to matchfix any matches nor was he on the barcode account at the time when it lost matches to DnS. Wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong company. If anything MajOr should be angry at Marinelord for matchfixing with an account that would implicate him.
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Very reasonable. And I'm not being ironic. Sucks for Major, I like the guy.
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On April 15 2016 08:34 trada wrote:
I dont find this harsh at all.
Its not just about those 3 players and enforcing the rules. Its about sending a message to those players who couldnt (yet) be caught and prevention of abusive behaviour. Blizzard suspected there would be more players involved in win trading and by increasing the punishment when caught this could have a deterrent effect on those players. It could also make win trading or other forms of cheating less appealing to players who think about abusing the system but havent actually done anything yet.
Exactly, now when they're going to try to do something of that sort this case is going to be a confirmation and reassurance for swift action towards them.
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On April 15 2016 07:09 Kerence wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 06:57 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 15 2016 06:46 ddayzy wrote:
Two out of three have admited to the charge so in the absolute worst case scenario they got it 66,6% right. You don't apply a percentage score to justice as if it was a test. Major being wrongly charged is wrong. It'd be better for all three to go free than for one of them to be wrongly punished. Didn't they already say why they punished Major but no one else? A number of other replays were examined, and along with the chat in those games, the records indicate MajOr was deliberately awarding wins. Though suspicious queuing behavior occurred, we cannot prove that any of the players that received free wins directly requested them from MajOr, so we have decided not to list the suspect matches publicly.Also: Rule-breaking or other malfeasance that occurs on shared accounts will be taken as evidence against all parties with access to the account, regardless of who directly took the action in question.I don't see why this is unclear or needs further explaining at all?
It seems you can type this same post a million times in this thread and people will still not read or understand it.
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On April 15 2016 08:49 Caihead wrote:
Best case scenario for MajOr: MajOr was associated with a matchfixer by account sharing an account that would be used in the matchfixing, he never intended to matchfix any matches nor was he on the barcode account at the time when it lost matches to DnS. Wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong company. If anything MajOr should be angry at Marinelord for matchfixing with an account that would implicate him.
Yes. Unfortunately even if he's "morally" innocent, he deserves the punishment cause he still broke the rules.
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On April 15 2016 08:55 Fran_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 08:49 Caihead wrote:
Best case scenario for MajOr: MajOr was associated with a matchfixer by account sharing an account that would be used in the matchfixing, he never intended to matchfix any matches nor was he on the barcode account at the time when it lost matches to DnS. Wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong company. If anything MajOr should be angry at Marinelord for matchfixing with an account that would implicate him. Yes. Unfortunately even if he's "morally" innocent, he deserves the punishment cause he still broke the rules.
almost every pro share accounts, so every pro should be suspended.
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On April 15 2016 09:03 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 08:55 Fran_ wrote:On April 15 2016 08:49 Caihead wrote:
Best case scenario for MajOr: MajOr was associated with a matchfixer by account sharing an account that would be used in the matchfixing, he never intended to matchfix any matches nor was he on the barcode account at the time when it lost matches to DnS. Wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong company. If anything MajOr should be angry at Marinelord for matchfixing with an account that would implicate him. Yes. Unfortunately even if he's "morally" innocent, he deserves the punishment cause he still broke the rules. almost every pro share accounts, so every pro should be suspended.
Fair enough. If they catch them, suspend them. It's against the Terms.
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On April 15 2016 09:05 Fran_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 09:03 sAsImre wrote:On April 15 2016 08:55 Fran_ wrote:On April 15 2016 08:49 Caihead wrote:
Best case scenario for MajOr: MajOr was associated with a matchfixer by account sharing an account that would be used in the matchfixing, he never intended to matchfix any matches nor was he on the barcode account at the time when it lost matches to DnS. Wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong company. If anything MajOr should be angry at Marinelord for matchfixing with an account that would implicate him. Yes. Unfortunately even if he's "morally" innocent, he deserves the punishment cause he still broke the rules. almost every pro share accounts, so every pro should be suspended. Fair enough. If they catch them, suspend them. It's against the Terms.
so we delete wcs, gsl, pl and we move on to hots since everyone is doing it?
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On April 15 2016 08:55 Fran_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 08:49 Caihead wrote:
Best case scenario for MajOr: MajOr was associated with a matchfixer by account sharing an account that would be used in the matchfixing, he never intended to matchfix any matches nor was he on the barcode account at the time when it lost matches to DnS. Wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong company. If anything MajOr should be angry at Marinelord for matchfixing with an account that would implicate him. Yes. Unfortunately even if he's "morally" innocent, he deserves the punishment cause he still broke the rules.
He doesn't deserve the punishment because he broke the rules, he actually doesn't deserve the punishment at all. Yet the punishment is just, if you share account with a win-trader you are implicated in the crimes associated with said shared account. That is why he is punished, because the account he shared win-traded and not because he shared account.
Just like the person you replied to said, Major should blame Marinelord. This is also why Marinelords tweet says Major is innocent and takes all the blame, because he feels bad for pulling Major down with him.
Now stop arguing about nit-picky things like accountsharing that actually doesn't really have anything to do with this. Share your bank account with whoever you want but once said bankaccount can be directly linked to illegal activity you are fucked. Totally fair actually.
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On April 15 2016 09:08 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 09:05 Fran_ wrote:On April 15 2016 09:03 sAsImre wrote:On April 15 2016 08:55 Fran_ wrote:On April 15 2016 08:49 Caihead wrote:
Best case scenario for MajOr: MajOr was associated with a matchfixer by account sharing an account that would be used in the matchfixing, he never intended to matchfix any matches nor was he on the barcode account at the time when it lost matches to DnS. Wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong company. If anything MajOr should be angry at Marinelord for matchfixing with an account that would implicate him. Yes. Unfortunately even if he's "morally" innocent, he deserves the punishment cause he still broke the rules. almost every pro share accounts, so every pro should be suspended. Fair enough. If they catch them, suspend them. It's against the Terms. so we delete wcs, gsl, pl and we move on to hots since everyone is doing it?
re-read what they say :
We identified a significant number of matches by MajOr in which he immediately forfeited the match. A number of other replays were examined, and along with the chat in those games, the records indicate MajOr was deliberately awarding wins
It's not just sharing accounts, don't act as if you don't see it.
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On April 15 2016 09:05 Fran_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 09:03 sAsImre wrote:On April 15 2016 08:55 Fran_ wrote:On April 15 2016 08:49 Caihead wrote:
Best case scenario for MajOr: MajOr was associated with a matchfixer by account sharing an account that would be used in the matchfixing, he never intended to matchfix any matches nor was he on the barcode account at the time when it lost matches to DnS. Wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong company. If anything MajOr should be angry at Marinelord for matchfixing with an account that would implicate him. Yes. Unfortunately even if he's "morally" innocent, he deserves the punishment cause he still broke the rules. almost every pro share accounts, so every pro should be suspended. Fair enough. If they catch them, suspend them. It's against the Terms.
Unreasonable rules should be changed.
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On April 15 2016 09:16 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 09:08 sAsImre wrote:On April 15 2016 09:05 Fran_ wrote:On April 15 2016 09:03 sAsImre wrote:On April 15 2016 08:55 Fran_ wrote:On April 15 2016 08:49 Caihead wrote:
Best case scenario for MajOr: MajOr was associated with a matchfixer by account sharing an account that would be used in the matchfixing, he never intended to matchfix any matches nor was he on the barcode account at the time when it lost matches to DnS. Wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong company. If anything MajOr should be angry at Marinelord for matchfixing with an account that would implicate him. Yes. Unfortunately even if he's "morally" innocent, he deserves the punishment cause he still broke the rules. almost every pro share accounts, so every pro should be suspended. Fair enough. If they catch them, suspend them. It's against the Terms. so we delete wcs, gsl, pl and we move on to hots since everyone is doing it? re-read what they say : We identified a significant number of matches by MajOr in which he immediately forfeited the match. A number of other replays were examined, and along with the chat in those games, the records indicate MajOr was deliberately awarding winsIt's not just sharing accounts, don't act as if you don't see it.
Shadown did exactly what major did, giving win to someone without actual collusion with this person (bunny) and nothing happened.
The inconsistency is almost as bad as the fact they're using the ladder to qualify for a qualifier.
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United States33388 Posts
On principle, it seems MajOr's connection to the shared accounts is enough reason to punish him.
However, regarding the issue of losing ladder games with malicious intent -- that's still his word against Blizzard's at this point. It may not matter for the sake of punishment (he's getting punished for account-sharing already), but it's still a relevant point regarding MajOr's character and Blizzard's competence.
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On April 15 2016 08:31 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
What do you mean by retroactive punishment? The rules were in place before they broke them. If you mean the fact that they removed the WCS points they'd won so far that doesn't have anything to do with ex post facto.
It was definitely my mistake for not being clear and misunderstanding the "retroactively disqualified from the French National qualifier of DreamHack ZOWIE Open: Tours". I meant it to be more of a general discussion and observation rather than specifying on this case.
The removal of WCS points and the participation in other tournaments are both, alongside other punishments, in the rule book and may be issed under Blizzard's discretion. What I meant was how far back would Blizzard go to retroactively punish other players should any evidence of player conducts would appear or is being addressed. Because under Player Conduct you can speculate several other players that fall under that category and can potentially have their behavior from a year ago compounded onto recent evidences. With retroactive punishment, to me, it seems that other players are at risk of being penalized.
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Guys it's written right there...
the records indicate MajOr was deliberately awarding wins
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On April 15 2016 09:29 Silvana wrote:
Guys it's written right there...
the records indicate MajOr was deliberately awarding wins
he's not the only one who did that.
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On April 15 2016 09:08 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 09:05 Fran_ wrote:On April 15 2016 09:03 sAsImre wrote:On April 15 2016 08:55 Fran_ wrote:On April 15 2016 08:49 Caihead wrote:
Best case scenario for MajOr: MajOr was associated with a matchfixer by account sharing an account that would be used in the matchfixing, he never intended to matchfix any matches nor was he on the barcode account at the time when it lost matches to DnS. Wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong company. If anything MajOr should be angry at Marinelord for matchfixing with an account that would implicate him. Yes. Unfortunately even if he's "morally" innocent, he deserves the punishment cause he still broke the rules. almost every pro share accounts, so every pro should be suspended. Fair enough. If they catch them, suspend them. It's against the Terms. so we delete wcs, gsl, pl and we move on to hots since everyone is doing it?
If EVERYONE is involved yes. If the pro community can't follow the Terms of Contract, it doesn't deserve to be a pro community.
But I'm sure this is not the case.
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On April 15 2016 09:31 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 09:29 Silvana wrote:
Guys it's written right there...
the records indicate MajOr was deliberately awarding wins
he's not the only one who did that.
But Blizzard couldn't prove it for others...
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EPT
