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Elentos
55594 Posts
On April 15 2016 06:28 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 06:17 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On April 15 2016 06:15 boxerfred wrote:Several unnamed players will be warned for their activity on ladder It is always good to put 3 players out in the public and keeping everyone else protected. Blizzard's management of this incident is pretty bad. Once more, fuck that company. How dare they conceal the names of the individuals that are only suspected of win trading with no definitive evidence. They're not "only suspected", because that would mean (or should mean, at least) that they'd be under investigation. Either they've been suspected of wintrading but internal investigation found them innocent (in which case there is no reason to issue them a warning), or they've been convicted of wintrading but aren't punished.
Or, you know, the evidence is too inconclusive to do more than issue a warning.
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This is what Blizzard should have written first before taking any actions. Better late than never I guess but what a shameful series of events.
Now as for the content of the statement itself, I'm still not sold. Blizzard refusing to publish evidence and players staying silent or still claiming innocence, not sure who I should trust. The mess has yet to be cleaned up.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On April 15 2016 06:43 PPN wrote:
This is what Blizzard should have written first before taking any actions. Better late than never I guess but what a shameful series of events.
Now as for the content of the statement itself, I'm still not sold. Blizzard refusing to publish evidence and players staying silent or still claiming innocence, not sure who I should trust. The mess has yet to be cleaned up.
Well, MarineLorD admitted his guilt (which by extension means DnS is also not innocent). Only MajOr's case is dubious now.
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On April 15 2016 06:43 PPN wrote:
This is what Blizzard should have written first before taking any actions. Better late than never I guess but what a shameful series of events.
Now as for the content of the statement itself, I'm still not sold. Blizzard refusing to publish evidence and players staying silent or still claiming innocence, not sure who I should trust. The mess has yet to be cleaned up.
Why is it shameful? Some participants of a tournament was found by the organizors to be in breach of their regulations and got punished. Why do you have the right to any information at all besides that?
Two out of three have admited to the charge so in the absolute worst case scenario they got it 66,6% right.
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Props to Blizzard for setting the record straight here and for not discolosing the names of the other players that were under suspicion. I do think its kind of weird that only Major gets punished though since as others have said you cant win-trade alone. So if you punish someone you need hard proof which should mean you got at least another name besides Major.
The only explanation I can see is that Major said something really really stupid in chat that "proves" that he was giving wins on purpose. This however does not prove beyond a doubt that the other player actually paid for it though, or asked for it. Maybe Major was just kidding or whatever but Blizzard should move on it, if nothing else to prove a point. Suspicious acitivity on a an account and expressing something like losing on purpose during this kind of ladder contest, Blizzard has done everything right here if my assumption is correct.
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On April 15 2016 06:19 aQuaSC wrote:
I think it would be far worse than what they did now, since community would pull the card of real life as people can leave games for so many reasons aside of win trading. It's a very difficult decision after all.
On April 15 2016 06:19 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 06:18 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 15 2016 06:17 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On April 15 2016 06:15 boxerfred wrote:Several unnamed players will be warned for their activity on ladder It is always good to put 3 players out in the public and keeping everyone else protected. Blizzard's management of this incident is pretty bad. Once more, fuck that company. How dare they conceal the names of the individuals that are only suspected of win trading with no definitive evidence. Everyone involved with Major should be named and banned. You can't win trade with no one. Either he was win trading and it damns everyone, or he wasn't and it damns no one. In other news, all players disqualified from WCS events before June 30.
Haha... I don't think Major should be suspended unless there is clear evidence he was win trading, and then the others involved should be too.
I was just stating that Blizzard needs to go after both the bank robber and the guy who drove the get-away car. Not just the guy who drove the get-away car.
The person that benefitted from Major's supposed actions is going unpunished and that is wrong if there is evidence of wrongdoing.
So again, either Major was win trading and then everyone involved needs to be punished, or Major wasn't and then no one gets punished. It can't be half and half. But we can't know if Blizzard doesn't release the evidence.
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On April 15 2016 06:50 Shuffleblade wrote:
Props to Blizzard for setting the record straight here and for not discolosing the names of the other players that were under suspicion. I do think its kind of weird that only Major gets punished though since as others have said you cant win-trade alone. So if you punish someone you need hard proof which should mean you got at least another name besides Major.
The only explanation I can see is that Major said something really really stupid in chat that "proves" that he was giving wins on purpose. This however does not prove beyond a doubt that the other player actually paid for it though, or asked for it. Maybe Major was just kidding or whatever but Blizzard should move on it, if nothing else to prove a point. Suspicious acitivity on a an account and expressing something like losing on purpose during this kind of ladder contest, Blizzard has done everything right here if my assumption is correct.
DnS played three ladder matches with a Terran, barcode-named player. DnS won two out of the three matches. Upon examining these matches and accounts in question, it was found that two players in the top 25 rankings had access to the barcoded Terran account: MajOr and MarineLorD.
I think they are punishing Major for this too, not just the suspicious ladder behavior. It probably just adds up for them.
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On April 15 2016 06:46 ddayzy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 06:43 PPN wrote:
This is what Blizzard should have written first before taking any actions. Better late than never I guess but what a shameful series of events.
Now as for the content of the statement itself, I'm still not sold. Blizzard refusing to publish evidence and players staying silent or still claiming innocence, not sure who I should trust. The mess has yet to be cleaned up. Why is it shameful? Some participants of a tournament was found by the organizors to be in breach of their regulations and got punished. Why do you have the right to any information at all besides that? Two out of three have admited to the charge so in the absolute worst case scenario they got it 66,6% right.
Why do you have to word it in "right"? So if it's not their obligation I should not ask them to do what I think is the right way to do things? I am their fan and their customer. I don't like the methods they used ie. shooting first and asking questions later and being vague as hell in their statement. I have every right to tell it to their face. I have no clue why you are so antagonistic. If you don't like my view, get lost man.
P.S.: no word about Bly. I nearly forgot.
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Wait how do they know Major and MarineLord had both had access to the account in question?
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On April 15 2016 06:46 ddayzy wrote:
Two out of three have admited to the charge so in the absolute worst case scenario they got it 66,6% right.
You don't apply a percentage score to justice as if it was a test.
Major being wrongly charged is wrong. It'd be better for all three to go free than for one of them to be wrongly punished.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On April 15 2016 06:56 Hier wrote:
Wait how do they know Major and MarineLord had both had access to the account in question?
Aside from both of them admitting to it, well, you can compare hotkey setups and spamming patterns to identify players.
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On April 15 2016 06:32 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 06:19 aQuaSC wrote:On April 15 2016 06:14 opisska wrote:
An interesting bit of information in this is that Blizzard apparently has access to ladder replays. So everything goes through the server? I wonder how long they are stored, it must be a lot of data over 6 years. I'm on the opposite side, I'm surprised that people assume that the only holders of the replays are players themselves, if they have replay saving option turned on. Balance/design team can't rely on streams and winrates alone, right? I think my surprise is influenced by BW where the players were the only ones who ever physically held the data needed to construct a replay. But still, it's just a hell lot of data, if all games played on ladder are spied on 
Yeah, on a side note, all the replays that Blizzard has collected throughout all these years is a true museum of the game (I assume that all the custom games are stored as well, so every professional game is there too), also a museum of salt and bm
On April 15 2016 06:59 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 06:56 Hier wrote:
Wait how do they know Major and MarineLord had both had access to the account in question? Aside from both of them admitting to it, well, you can compare hotkey setups and spamming patterns to identify players.
Plus IP and other technical stuff for sure.
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Maybe Major disconnected so quickly because he was sick..
wait he's used that before
innocent or not can we stop caring what the tier 3 terran was doing? guy was flaky at best.
blizzard's game, blizzard's rules.
If the pro's want a voice (even vs kespa) then get a union.
that's why they exist.
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On April 15 2016 06:56 Hier wrote:
Wait how do they know Major and MarineLord had both had access to the account in question?
That's very easy to establish. I don't think either player denied it either.
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Sorry, quoted instead of edit
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On April 15 2016 06:59 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 06:56 Hier wrote:
Wait how do they know Major and MarineLord had both had access to the account in question? Aside from both of them admitting to it, well, you can compare hotkey setups and spamming patterns to identify players.
They probably just compared their IP's
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On April 15 2016 06:55 PPN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 06:46 ddayzy wrote:On April 15 2016 06:43 PPN wrote:
This is what Blizzard should have written first before taking any actions. Better late than never I guess but what a shameful series of events.
Now as for the content of the statement itself, I'm still not sold. Blizzard refusing to publish evidence and players staying silent or still claiming innocence, not sure who I should trust. The mess has yet to be cleaned up. Why is it shameful? Some participants of a tournament was found by the organizors to be in breach of their regulations and got punished. Why do you have the right to any information at all besides that? Two out of three have admited to the charge so in the absolute worst case scenario they got it 66,6% right. Why do you have to word it in "right"? So if it's not their obligation I should not ask them to do what I think is the right way to do things? I am their fan and their customer. I don't like the methods they used ie. shooting first and asking questions later and being vague as hell in their statement. I have every right to tell it to their face. I have no clue why you are so antagonistic. If you don't like my view, get lost man. P.S.: no word about Bly. I nearly forgot.
Why is it "right" for them to share information with you? You are not the judge on this case, what you think is frankly irrelevant. They conducted a investegation, found the evidence sufficient to punish the players in question and did so. Why do you think you have right to any information besides that?
They were'nt "shoot first and asking questions later". They conducted a investegation, came to a conclusion and acted on that conclusion.
You are not "telling it to their face", you are on a internet forum demanding information to a investegation you are not a part of.
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On April 15 2016 06:51 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 06:19 aQuaSC wrote:
I think it would be far worse than what they did now, since community would pull the card of real life as people can leave games for so many reasons aside of win trading. It's a very difficult decision after all.
Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 06:19 Elentos wrote:On April 15 2016 06:18 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 15 2016 06:17 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On April 15 2016 06:15 boxerfred wrote:Several unnamed players will be warned for their activity on ladder It is always good to put 3 players out in the public and keeping everyone else protected. Blizzard's management of this incident is pretty bad. Once more, fuck that company. How dare they conceal the names of the individuals that are only suspected of win trading with no definitive evidence. Everyone involved with Major should be named and banned. You can't win trade with no one. Either he was win trading and it damns everyone, or he wasn't and it damns no one. In other news, all players disqualified from WCS events before June 30. Haha... I don't think Major should be suspended unless there is clear evidence he was win trading, and then the others involved should be too. I was just stating that Blizzard needs to go after both the bank robber and the guy who drove the get-away car. Not just the guy who drove the get-away car. The person that benefitted from Major's supposed actions is going unpunished and that is wrong if there is evidence of wrongdoing. So again, either Major was win trading and then everyone involved needs to be punished, or Major wasn't and then no one gets punished. It can't be half and half. But we can't know if Blizzard doesn't release the evidence.
I'm all for that. The sooner they're all banned, the sooner we can end the region lock and make SC2 great again
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Kerence
Sweden1817 Posts
On April 15 2016 06:57 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2016 06:46 ddayzy wrote:
Two out of three have admited to the charge so in the absolute worst case scenario they got it 66,6% right. You don't apply a percentage score to justice as if it was a test. Major being wrongly charged is wrong. It'd be better for all three to go free than for one of them to be wrongly punished.
Didn't they already say why they punished Major but no one else?
A number of other replays were examined, and along with the chat in those games, the records indicate MajOr was deliberately awarding wins. Though suspicious queuing behavior occurred, we cannot prove that any of the players that received free wins directly requested them from MajOr, so we have decided not to list the suspect matches publicly.
Also:
Rule-breaking or other malfeasance that occurs on shared accounts will be taken as evidence against all parties with access to the account, regardless of who directly took the action in question.
I don't see why this is unclear or needs further explaining at all?
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EPT
