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On February 14 2016 08:59 Seeker wrote:
Starting from this page on, I will be moderating more harshly toward any mention of MarineKing's name. This thread has NOTHING to do with MarineKing. Do not talk about MarineKing even if you are defending him. Just don't do it. Please no match-fixing accusations on MarineKing or any other player if it has not officially been confirmed. This goes for other players too. -The_Templar |
On February 15 2016 21:24 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2016 21:17 deacon.frost wrote:On February 15 2016 20:01 opisska wrote:On February 15 2016 19:40 itsmck wrote:Yes, it is. It's a fucking game! It also steals money only from people who are betting illegally anyway. It is also not violent.
I am not saying that we should accept matchfixers with open arms, but compared to almost any serious crime, it's really nothing. It depends how you define serious crime. If Life received big amounts of money for matchfixing and was involved in illegal betting, he may be also charged for tax fraud and similar shit :/ Whatever. I still believe that means of force, such as extended detention without being charged - and then even custody - should be used only in the most serious cases that warrant it. The state should not be empowered to detain people left and right. That's funny that it comes from a citizen of a country that does this  Our custody is so abused it's not even funny and no one gives a shit. And the compensation is stupidly low. And when a judge says, that people shouldn't be compensated after a custody, because that's just a mechanism to get the true villain... what do you expect? We have people who are released out of custody after a year with destroyed lives. No. One. Here. Cares. Though you have to be charged to be held so long, but that's not a problem, charges are easy. It's a known problem. It's still not as bad as three weeks for "questioning". From what I had the pleasure learning about the systems elsewhere, we should be pretty glad for what he have. Even though obviously it could be better.
Just curious, is the police and justice system in general trusted to be acting in good faith and sticking to the rules in the Czech republic? I assume that this is the case to a certain extent at least since otherwise it wouldn't be all that useful to even talk about what kind of rules you have for detention...
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Sorry, I managed to double post. Previous post is what I was trying to say...
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On February 15 2016 18:48 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2016 18:35 Dumbledore wrote:On February 15 2016 17:58 opisska wrote:
It's really weird how quiet everyone in Korea is about this. Is he still being held in prison because of fixing a video game for that long? Should we even expect to know if he is released? I guess the police isn't oblige to provide news updates, but aren't there some real e-sports journalist in Korea?
In any case, what I learned from this thread that in Korea, they can apparently hold you up for 20 days in jail because of a suspicion of a really minor crime. I am not sure I ever want to step into such country. Fixing a match is a really minor crime? Yes, it is. It's a fucking game! It also steals money only from people who are betting illegally anyway. It is also not violent. I am not saying that we should accept matchfixers with open arms, but compared to almost any serious crime, it's really nothing.
but it also hurts legal betting and anyone associated with the scene as well? not to mention the problems associated with unregulated gambling coming into play.
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is it possible he has already cut a deal and is now in jail as part of his punishment for a crime he is now admitting he did ?
no justice system is perfect. over all the US has a good structure for what should be a good system. and even then any American Citizen is one Mike Nifong away from having their lives destroyed.
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On February 15 2016 22:25 Garrl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2016 18:48 opisska wrote:On February 15 2016 18:35 Dumbledore wrote:On February 15 2016 17:58 opisska wrote:
It's really weird how quiet everyone in Korea is about this. Is he still being held in prison because of fixing a video game for that long? Should we even expect to know if he is released? I guess the police isn't oblige to provide news updates, but aren't there some real e-sports journalist in Korea?
In any case, what I learned from this thread that in Korea, they can apparently hold you up for 20 days in jail because of a suspicion of a really minor crime. I am not sure I ever want to step into such country. Fixing a match is a really minor crime? Yes, it is. It's a fucking game! It also steals money only from people who are betting illegally anyway. It is also not violent. I am not saying that we should accept matchfixers with open arms, but compared to almost any serious crime, it's really nothing. but it also hurts legal betting and anyone associated with the scene as well? not to mention the problems associated with unregulated gambling coming into play.
There is no legal betting in korea
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On February 15 2016 22:22 nighcol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2016 21:24 opisska wrote:On February 15 2016 21:17 deacon.frost wrote:On February 15 2016 20:01 opisska wrote:On February 15 2016 19:40 itsmck wrote:Yes, it is. It's a fucking game! It also steals money only from people who are betting illegally anyway. It is also not violent.
I am not saying that we should accept matchfixers with open arms, but compared to almost any serious crime, it's really nothing. It depends how you define serious crime. If Life received big amounts of money for matchfixing and was involved in illegal betting, he may be also charged for tax fraud and similar shit :/ Whatever. I still believe that means of force, such as extended detention without being charged - and then even custody - should be used only in the most serious cases that warrant it. The state should not be empowered to detain people left and right. That's funny that it comes from a citizen of a country that does this Our custody is so abused it's not even funny and no one gives a shit. And the compensation is stupidly low. And when a judge says, that people shouldn't be compensated after a custody, because that's just a mechanism to get the true villain... what do you expect? We have people who are released out of custody after a year with destroyed lives. No. One. Here. Cares. Though you have to be charged to be held so long, but that's not a problem, charges are easy. It's a known problem. It's still not as bad as three weeks for "questioning". From what I had the pleasure learning about the systems elsewhere, we should be pretty glad for what he have. Even though obviously it could be better. Just curious, is the police and justice system in general trusted to be acting in good faith and sticking to the rules in the Czech republic? I assume that this is the case to a certain extent at least since otherwise it wouldn't be all that useful to even talk about what kind of rules you have for detention...
It depends. The road department of Police is not trusted at all and is widely considered as useless. The rest is somehow viewed as a good thing, but not that much. Police as whole is viewed positively though. But with mixed feelings.
Justice system is viewed as a slow one, with a plenty of "weird" decisions, but the higher you get the higher your chance for fair trial is.
It depends who you ask or in what environment you are. I don't have any trust in the lowest branch of our justice(too many judges are so much independent that they are independent on the law as well  ) and I have not that big trust in Police. On the other hand this sounds like 1st world problem when you compare it to other systems.
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On February 15 2016 21:24 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2016 21:17 deacon.frost wrote:On February 15 2016 20:01 opisska wrote:On February 15 2016 19:40 itsmck wrote:Yes, it is. It's a fucking game! It also steals money only from people who are betting illegally anyway. It is also not violent.
I am not saying that we should accept matchfixers with open arms, but compared to almost any serious crime, it's really nothing. It depends how you define serious crime. If Life received big amounts of money for matchfixing and was involved in illegal betting, he may be also charged for tax fraud and similar shit :/ Whatever. I still believe that means of force, such as extended detention without being charged - and then even custody - should be used only in the most serious cases that warrant it. The state should not be empowered to detain people left and right. That's funny that it comes from a citizen of a country that does this Our custody is so abused it's not even funny and no one gives a shit. And the compensation is stupidly low. And when a judge says, that people shouldn't be compensated after a custody, because that's just a mechanism to get the true villain... what do you expect? We have people who are released out of custody after a year with destroyed lives. No. One. Here. Cares. Though you have to be charged to be held so long, but that's not a problem, charges are easy. It's a known problem. It's still not as bad as three weeks for "questioning". From what I had the pleasure learning about the systems elsewhere, we should be pretty glad for what he have. Even though obviously it could be better.
In Sweden if the prosecutor asks for you to be detained pending trial you almost always will be. And they ask, in 99% of all cases, for full restrictions (which they get) which means you're isolated from all other prisoners, visitors, no phone calls, no newspapers, no letters. Amnesty International regularly chastises Sweden for this since isolation is a form of torture but nothing ever seems to happen with it.
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over all the US has a good structure for what should be a good system.
This made me LOL IRL. Ignorance is bliss, I guess..
20 full days means 240 hours of custody...
Also this is probably nitpicking, but 20 days really means 480hrs. It might be important if you're the detainee. 
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On February 15 2016 23:33 waiting2Bbanned wrote:This made me LOL IRL. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.. Also this is probably nitpicking, but 20 days really means 480hrs. It might be important if you're the detainee.
has he been in custody this whole time??
Seems very harsh for just betting/stealing charges to be held in custody full time for so long. It's not like he physically hurt anyone. Isn't he like assigned at home or something?
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Well this makes me pretty sad. Have had a busy few weeks not following the scene as closely as usual and just caught the news. Really sad about it as Life was not one of the 7-8 players on my list of 'known fixers' whereas Yoda and B4 both were so it didn't come as a surprise to me. It just means that match fixing is/was even more widespread than even I thought. Sad that one of my favourite players who was hugely successful would do it, assuming he did as I haven't seen the evidence myself although for them to make an arrest you would assume they have some.
Amusingly it only took until post 24 for someone to name a likely match fixer as 'one of the good guys' left in the scene out of their list of five players. I count two very likely match fixers that I know of left on the proleague roster this round with a solid chance at a third based on the evidence I discussed back in HOTS, won't rehash it due to not particularly wanting to be banned from TL (I was warned for my last post that prime wasn't the end of the matchfixing scandal) the rest have mostly disappeared from the scene or faded from relevance, but if Life can do it... pretty much anyone could be doing it. If a certain Afreeca player and certain SKT player are next I wouldn't be surprised at all. The rest that are out there have faded a bit in relevance but we can all hope for a corruption-free esports in the future.
At the end of the day hopefully Life if he's guilty can find something to do outside of esports and serve as a warning to the up and coming young progamers that greed can ruin careers. It's sad that he has to disappear from the scene, but he does.
To any of the matchfixers out there on the off chance you read this - just retire before they catch up with you or at the very least never match fix again. Once you're out of the scene no one will care anymore. If an amateur like me can determine who's likely to be fixing based on basic data analysis, I can only imagine what the experts in the criminal justice system can do.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On February 15 2016 23:33 waiting2Bbanned wrote:This made me LOL IRL. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.. Also this is probably nitpicking, but 20 days really means 480hrs. It might be important if you're the detainee.
Yeah I failed at calculating that
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On February 15 2016 23:56 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2016 23:33 waiting2Bbanned wrote: over all the US has a good structure for what should be a good system. This made me LOL IRL. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.. 20 full days means 240 hours of custody... Also this is probably nitpicking, but 20 days really means 480hrs. It might be important if you're the detainee. Yeah I failed at calculating that
Well, it's a Korean SC2 thread and we all know what happens to casters when they are doing math on screen. I think the curse works for people in threads too. Not all the time... (The curse of Artosis doesn't hit all the time either)
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How long has it been since we've not received updates?
I'm just not sure what's going on, but if he's been held this long the way I see it is that they haven't yet actually come to a conclusion. Which is, I guess, somewhat encouraging?
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On February 16 2016 00:17 Incognoto wrote:
How long has it been since we've not received updates?
I'm just not sure what's going on, but if he's been held this long the way I see it is that they haven't yet actually come to a conclusion. Which is, I guess, somewhat encouraging?
Uhm, we don't know about any decision, doesn't mean Life doesn't know either.
Anyway, still no ban from KeSPA, which means KeSPA doesn't think he's guilty!
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On February 16 2016 00:20 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2016 00:17 Incognoto wrote:
How long has it been since we've not received updates?
I'm just not sure what's going on, but if he's been held this long the way I see it is that they haven't yet actually come to a conclusion. Which is, I guess, somewhat encouraging? Uhm, we don't know about any decision, doesn't mean Life doesn't know either. Anyway, still no ban from KeSPA, which means KeSPA doesn't think he's guilty!
Or that even KeSPA doesn't have any news from the investigation^^
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On February 15 2016 23:49 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:It depends who you ask or in what environment you are. I don't have any trust in the lowest branch of our justice(too many judges are so much independent that they are independent on the law as well ) and I have not that big trust in Police. On the other hand this sounds like 1st world problem when you compare it to other systems.
Thats not alot of difference to germany. Lowest branch of justice, the so called "Amtsgerichte" speak really strange things from time to time. It is common to always go at least 1 stage higher, but better revise the case twice and go for the "Landgericht".
On February 15 2016 23:49 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2016 23:33 waiting2Bbanned wrote: over all the US has a good structure for what should be a good system. This made me LOL IRL. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.. 20 full days means 240 hours of custody... Also this is probably nitpicking, but 20 days really means 480hrs. It might be important if you're the detainee. has he been in custody this whole time?? Seems very harsh for just betting/stealing charges to be held in custody full time for so long. It's not like he physically hurt anyone. Isn't he like assigned at home or something?
We dont know that.
The prosecutor does not have to give the public informations about the case. Kespa might not want to, just like Afreeca. Life himself might also not want to talk about it in any regards, his lawyers will most likely tell him to do so and also if he is guilty, the lose of face could be a thing. Neither Yoda nor B4 gave statements.
Life might be at home (not allowed to leave home or the country) and just keep his head low, he might still be in custody and getting asked question by the prosecutor. We dont know. As long no further information is given to the public, nothing is really save.
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On February 15 2016 18:48 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2016 18:35 Dumbledore wrote:On February 15 2016 17:58 opisska wrote:
It's really weird how quiet everyone in Korea is about this. Is he still being held in prison because of fixing a video game for that long? Should we even expect to know if he is released? I guess the police isn't oblige to provide news updates, but aren't there some real e-sports journalist in Korea?
In any case, what I learned from this thread that in Korea, they can apparently hold you up for 20 days in jail because of a suspicion of a really minor crime. I am not sure I ever want to step into such country. Fixing a match is a really minor crime? Yes, it is. It's a fucking game! It also steals money only from people who are betting illegally anyway. It is also not violent. I am not saying that we should accept matchfixers with open arms, but compared to almost any serious crime, it's really nothing.
The reason match fixing and gambling crimes are often so heavily scrutinized is because they can very easily involve organized crime. Your mileage may vary on how hard you think we should be going after anything they're involved in of course. But tI them it isn't just about it being a game.
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On February 15 2016 23:54 Swoopae wrote:
Well this makes me pretty sad. Have had a busy few weeks not following the scene as closely as usual and just caught the news. Really sad about it as Life was not one of the 7-8 players on my list of 'known fixers' whereas Yoda and B4 both were so it didn't come as a surprise to me. It just means that match fixing is/was even more widespread than even I thought. Sad that one of my favourite players who was hugely successful would do it, assuming he did as I haven't seen the evidence myself although for them to make an arrest you would assume they have some.
Amusingly it only took until post 24 for someone to name a likely match fixer as 'one of the good guys' left in the scene out of their list of five players. I count two very likely match fixers that I know of left on the proleague roster this round with a solid chance at a third based on the evidence I discussed back in HOTS, won't rehash it due to not particularly wanting to be banned from TL (I was warned for my last post that prime wasn't the end of the matchfixing scandal) the rest have mostly disappeared from the scene or faded from relevance, but if Life can do it... pretty much anyone could be doing it. If a certain Afreeca player and certain SKT player are next I wouldn't be surprised at all. The rest that are out there have faded a bit in relevance but we can all hope for a corruption-free esports in the future.
At the end of the day hopefully Life if he's guilty can find something to do outside of esports and serve as a warning to the up and coming young progamers that greed can ruin careers. It's sad that he has to disappear from the scene, but he does.
To any of the matchfixers out there on the off chance you read this - just retire before they catch up with you or at the very least never match fix again. Once you're out of the scene no one will care anymore. If an amateur like me can determine who's likely to be fixing based on basic data analysis, I can only imagine what the experts in the criminal justice system can do.
User was temp banned for this post.
How come he was banned for this? You can hardly call what he wrote martyring and I can't see any other reason/s.
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On February 16 2016 02:04 Dumbledore wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2016 23:54 Swoopae wrote:
Well this makes me pretty sad. Have had a busy few weeks not following the scene as closely as usual and just caught the news. Really sad about it as Life was not one of the 7-8 players on my list of 'known fixers' whereas Yoda and B4 both were so it didn't come as a surprise to me. It just means that match fixing is/was even more widespread than even I thought. Sad that one of my favourite players who was hugely successful would do it, assuming he did as I haven't seen the evidence myself although for them to make an arrest you would assume they have some.
Amusingly it only took until post 24 for someone to name a likely match fixer as 'one of the good guys' left in the scene out of their list of five players. I count two very likely match fixers that I know of left on the proleague roster this round with a solid chance at a third based on the evidence I discussed back in HOTS, won't rehash it due to not particularly wanting to be banned from TL (I was warned for my last post that prime wasn't the end of the matchfixing scandal) the rest have mostly disappeared from the scene or faded from relevance, but if Life can do it... pretty much anyone could be doing it. If a certain Afreeca player and certain SKT player are next I wouldn't be surprised at all. The rest that are out there have faded a bit in relevance but we can all hope for a corruption-free esports in the future.
At the end of the day hopefully Life if he's guilty can find something to do outside of esports and serve as a warning to the up and coming young progamers that greed can ruin careers. It's sad that he has to disappear from the scene, but he does.
To any of the matchfixers out there on the off chance you read this - just retire before they catch up with you or at the very least never match fix again. Once you're out of the scene no one will care anymore. If an amateur like me can determine who's likely to be fixing based on basic data analysis, I can only imagine what the experts in the criminal justice system can do.
User was temp banned for this post. How come he was banned for this? You can hardly call what he wrote martyring and I can't see any other reason/s.
Repeat offense, probably.
Ergo, he was told to stop earlier
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On February 16 2016 02:04 Dumbledore wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2016 23:54 Swoopae wrote:
Well this makes me pretty sad. Have had a busy few weeks not following the scene as closely as usual and just caught the news. Really sad about it as Life was not one of the 7-8 players on my list of 'known fixers' whereas Yoda and B4 both were so it didn't come as a surprise to me. It just means that match fixing is/was even more widespread than even I thought. Sad that one of my favourite players who was hugely successful would do it, assuming he did as I haven't seen the evidence myself although for them to make an arrest you would assume they have some.
Amusingly it only took until post 24 for someone to name a likely match fixer as 'one of the good guys' left in the scene out of their list of five players. I count two very likely match fixers that I know of left on the proleague roster this round with a solid chance at a third based on the evidence I discussed back in HOTS, won't rehash it due to not particularly wanting to be banned from TL (I was warned for my last post that prime wasn't the end of the matchfixing scandal) the rest have mostly disappeared from the scene or faded from relevance, but if Life can do it... pretty much anyone could be doing it. If a certain Afreeca player and certain SKT player are next I wouldn't be surprised at all. The rest that are out there have faded a bit in relevance but we can all hope for a corruption-free esports in the future.
At the end of the day hopefully Life if he's guilty can find something to do outside of esports and serve as a warning to the up and coming young progamers that greed can ruin careers. It's sad that he has to disappear from the scene, but he does.
To any of the matchfixers out there on the off chance you read this - just retire before they catch up with you or at the very least never match fix again. Once you're out of the scene no one will care anymore. If an amateur like me can determine who's likely to be fixing based on basic data analysis, I can only imagine what the experts in the criminal justice system can do.
User was temp banned for this post. How come he was banned for this? You can hardly call what he wrote martyring and I can't see any other reason/s.
Best guess he was making accusations without proof
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EPT
